One-eyed Misbehavin Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 6 hours ago, Megorova said: Maybe Targaryens sent Dark Sister away with Bloodraven to The Wall, because with that sword he executed Aenys Blackfyre. One of the better reasons ive seen put forth why Brynden was able to take that blade north Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finley McLeod Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 Dark Sister is somewhere in the North. Blackfyre is in the hands of a Blackfyre sympathizer. I don't know what the right moment is but Aegon could really use it right now. Bloodraven, why he chose to keep his existence secret from Aemon is very suspicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 8 minutes ago, Finley McLeod said: Dark Sister is somewhere in the North. Blackfyre is in the hands of a Blackfyre sympathizer. I don't know what the right moment is but Aegon could really use it right now. Bloodraven, why he chose to keep his existence secret from Aemon is very suspicious. Agree all the way to the very last statement. Why do you think Aemon didn't know about Dark Sister? Not saying you are wrong. Just always assumed that Aemon, being the uber bright man he was, and in contact with Rhaegar (meaning he was versed in these mysterious prophesies), would know everything that happened in the higher echelons at the Wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 1 hour ago, One-eyed Misbehavin said: I have so much to say about all of this. Yes it is. The most badass sword lineage bar none As for the seduction element. Thats so daemon it's not funny. Ive always believed that rhanerya shot criston cole down but love your input of daemon taking tbe melee peraonal in regards to the realms delight. Idk how the timeline holds to that but I certainly could see it You gotta have the sword to match the armor. Id have to double check his proximity to nightfall and red rain but both of those swords sound like they should belong to Euron Greyjoy. The kraken we can only pray for TWOW forsaken chapter Reveal hidden contents gave me hope. Lucas Codd said some wild shit. And he is merely Euron's thrall Brother-Man, you make me read preview chapters with new eyes. (I think Red Rain is still on the Iron Islands). I expected something, because you never fail to light up my sword sense, but 2 swords for Euron? Utterly classic. Good call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finley McLeod Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 Just now, Curled Finger said: Agree all the way to the very last statement. Why do you think Aemon didn't know about Dark Sister? Not saying you are wrong. Just always assumed that Aemon, being the uber bright man he was, and in contact with Rhaegar (meaning he was versed in these mysterious prophesies), would know everything that happened in the higher echelons at the Wall. I really don't know. This is a long stretch but perhaps Bloodraven now believe all that stuff is no longer important. Family this, family that. It doesn't matter anymore. Sending Dark Sister to Rhaegar so he can use it in combat was not his concern anymore. Bloodraven really and absolutely embraced the purpose of the Night's Watch. Maybe he didn't fully trust Aemon because the old man was a maester of the citadel. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zandru Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 7 hours ago, Curled Finger said: I ask you, Brother, can you identify a character in current times more magical or brutal than Lady Arya Stark? Lady Coldheart. Melisandre of Asshai. Daenerys Targaryen, Mother of Dragons. And definitely Euron Crows Eye Greyjoy. Just my first thoughts. I think we've confirmed that Bryndan (Targaryen) Rivers did take Dark Sister to the Wall when he took the black. Why would he be "allowed"? Man, he was effin' BLOODRAVEN! One thousand eyes and one. Skinwalker. Sorcerer. I imagine the other Targaryens were just glad that he actually went to the Wall, without coercion. But there's also the mystic angle, the prophesies about the return of the Long Night and the Others which Aegon IV and new Maester Aemon were also familiar with. If Bryndan wanted the family Magic Sword, who better would know what to do with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 2 hours ago, zandru said: Lady Coldheart. Melisandre of Asshai. Daenerys Targaryen, Mother of Dragons. And definitely Euron Crows Eye Greyjoy. Just my first thoughts. I think we've confirmed that Bryndan (Targaryen) Rivers did take Dark Sister to the Wall when he took the black. Why would he be "allowed"? Man, he was effin' BLOODRAVEN! One thousand eyes and one. Skinwalker. Sorcerer. I imagine the other Targaryens were just glad that he actually went to the Wall, without coercion. But there's also the mystic angle, the prophesies about the return of the Long Night and the Others which Aegon IV and new Maester Aemon were also familiar with. If Bryndan wanted the family Magic Sword, who better would know what to do with it? Actually not bad additions to the list...except Euron, he's a jerk unworthy of DS. We had a geek fest over Dark Sister a million years ago in a topic that took a closer look at the "sorcerers" who possessed Dark Sister. Several of our comments call back to that conversation and others we have enjoyed. So big fat Heck Yah to effin Bloodraven being right up there with Daemon, Visenia and likely Arya. Arya training in some pretty dark magic is like a neon sign pointing to her wielding DS. Got a little fanboyish for a minute there thinking about it. Dark Sister is pretty easy to get excited about when her previous owners come into play. Love where you are coming from with the reasons BR would be permitted to take DS to the Wall. He was a consummate badass. Who better indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 3 hours ago, Finley McLeod said: I really don't know. This is a long stretch but perhaps Bloodraven now believe all that stuff is no longer important. Family this, family that. It doesn't matter anymore. Sending Dark Sister to Rhaegar so he can use it in combat was not his concern anymore. Bloodraven really and absolutely embraced the purpose of the Night's Watch. Maybe he didn't fully trust Aemon because the old man was a maester of the citadel. ? But Aemon was the maester at the Wall and I would think any Lord Commander would take his maester in confidence. Well a good maester like Aemon anyway. It never occurred to me that BR was no longer interested in sorcery or magic when he went to the wall. The purpose of the Wall in the first place is magical in nature as was the Nights Watch in origin. It would be difficult to get away from magic in that place. I don't mean to tear you apart at all. We all read this story differently, I just don't think I've ever seen that idea before. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One-eyed Misbehavin Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 12 hours ago, zandru said: Lady Coldheart. Melisandre of Asshai. Daenerys Targaryen, Mother of Dragons. And definitely Euron Crows Eye Greyjoy. Just my first thoughts. I think we've confirmed that Bryndan (Targaryen) Rivers did take Dark Sister to the Wall when he took the black. Why would he be "allowed"? Man, he was effin' BLOODRAVEN! One thousand eyes and one. Skinwalker. Sorcerer. I imagine the other Targaryens were just glad that he actually went to the Wall, without coercion. But there's also the mystic angle, the prophesies about the return of the Long Night and the Others which Aegon IV and new Maester Aemon were also familiar with. If Bryndan wanted the family Magic Sword, who better would know what to do with it? Lol this is a great point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One-eyed Misbehavin Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 10 hours ago, Curled Finger said: Actually not bad additions to the list...except Euron, he's a jerk unworthy of DS. We had a geek fest over Dark Sister a million years ago in a topic that took a closer look at the "sorcerers" who possessed Dark Sister. Several of our comments call back to that conversation and others we have enjoyed. So big fat Heck Yah to effin Bloodraven being right up there with Daemon, Visenia and likely Arya. Arya training in some pretty dark magic is like a neon sign pointing to her wielding DS. Got a little fanboyish for a minute there thinking about it. Dark Sister is pretty easy to get excited about when her previous owners come into play. Love where you are coming from with the reasons BR would be permitted to take DS to the Wall. He was a consummate badass. Who better indeed. That was my favorite post of all time. The one I had the most fun speculating with anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 3 hours ago, One-eyed Misbehavin said: That was my favorite post of all time. The one I had the most fun speculating with anyway. You need a sword geek fest, Brother. I think we did Dark Sister and Blackfyre. Oathkeeper is pretty self explanatory. Wanna try another set? How about the sad swords, Heartsbane, Lamentation and Lady Forlorn? The virtues, Vigilance and Truth? The killers, Widows Wail and Orphan-Maker? Or the opposites, Nightfall and Dawn, though I hate to get into Dawn in the same places as VS. Shouldn't Ice and Brightroar and Longclaw have companions? Why don't they? Gads we could go for days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastWolf Posted June 25, 2020 Author Share Posted June 25, 2020 16 hours ago, Curled Finger said: Shouldn't Ice and Brightroar and Longclaw have companions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastWolf Posted June 25, 2020 Author Share Posted June 25, 2020 On 6/23/2020 at 12:24 AM, Megorova said: Thus, in my opinion, she is GRRM's parallel to magical beings from Irish and Welsh mythology - Morgan le Fay, water fairy Nimue the Lady of the Lake (that according to some versions of Arthurian legends gave Excalibur to King Arthur), queen of phantoms Morrigan, Battle Crow Badb Catha, and banshee (because of meaning of names Shiera and Quaithe, which means "long barrow"/grave; and "mor" in Welsh means the sea, so Morgan/Morrigan is basically the same thing as Shiera's name - Sea Star). And Bloodraven is GRRM's parallel to Merlin. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgan_le_Fay https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_of_the_Lake#In_Le_Morte_d'Arthur https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Morrígan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badb https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banshee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merlin#Merlin's_end Merlin was lured into a trap by the woman that he loved, she casted a spell on him, and binded him to a magical tree in an underground cave, and left him there. Thus, I'm sure that to Bloodraven happened the same thing - Shiera lured him beyond The Wall, brought him to the Children's cave, made him to eat weirwood seed paste, and when he woke up, he was "wedded to a tree" - weirwood seeds from his stomach grew thru his internal organs, muscles and bones, and binded him with tree roots to that cave. The same thing will (already) happen to Bran. King Arthur and the prince who was promised, Excalibur and Light bringer, Merlin and Bloodraven, Nimue and Shiera/Quaithe, are all links between European mythology and ASOIAF... I'd like to add one more, The Round Table and the Painted Table. When Dragonstone erupts (its a volcano after all because obsidian/dragonglass found in Dragonstone is a volcanic rock-glass and the sorcery controlling it is weak like the sorcery that controlled the fourteen flames of Valyria went weak due to killing of its mages by the FM before the Doom) the Painted Table will go the same way as Arthur's Round Table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastWolf Posted June 25, 2020 Author Share Posted June 25, 2020 On 6/22/2020 at 5:22 PM, Alexis-something-Rose said: If Dark Sister is anywhere, I think a likely hiding place for it will be the crypts of Winterfell. As the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, Bloodraven might have traveled to Winterfell several times, might have entrusted the sword to a kinsman for safekeeping. (I think the dragon egg he rescued from Butterwell could be there as well) I think there are other possibilities too. Before I start, I think it unlikely that the egg was one of the seven that perished at Summerhall as Bloodraven was not stupid to leave it in the hands of such fools, maybe Crypts of Winterfell is a possibility but its too cold a place that the egg would turn to stone there, and Bloodraven would know that as well. Hear my idea too. Bloodraven was half Blackwood so he must surely have had friends in the riverlands. We know that Brynden Blackfish Tully was most probably named after Bloodraven as he and Bran discuss it in ADWD. So I think the Lord Tully during the time BR went to the Wall may have been given the egg by BR. He was most likely the father of Hoster Tully and when he died the egg might have been sunk along with him in an air and watertight chest/box and all his possesions in the Red Fork of the Trident as all the Tullys buried their dead in that manner. Maybe we may find that in the upcoming DUNK & EGG stories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 6 hours ago, TheLastWolf said: You asked for it. I'm going in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastWolf Posted June 25, 2020 Author Share Posted June 25, 2020 On 6/23/2020 at 7:14 PM, zandru said: Just noting that "a thousand" is consistently used in Westeros to mean "a lot". Winterfell is always "a thousand leagues away", as is Riverrun, no matter where you are. Arya's past life as daughter of the Hand is "a thousand years ago", much like pre-COVID times are now, and the length of time since the Ghost of High Hill claims to have been kissed. I would not take it literally. I think that the literal thousand years is hidden due to all the other figurative thousand years... and winter fell is really thousand leagues away... If Deepwood motte is 100 leagues away from it(see Asha chapters ADWD) it's possible that Arya is thousand leagues away And FYI @Megorova, Rohanne Webber is 4“11 while ghost of high heart is only 3 feet tall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Raventree Hall Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 On 6/24/2020 at 5:46 AM, Megorova said: You may start your fifth reread, because GRRM isn't going to release TWOW this year. Edit: The thing is, even if he will finish TWOW's manuscript this year, the book won't be published. Because nearly all publishers decided to move publication dates from this year to 2021, because of COVID. And they really did it. I was waiting for a certain book, that was supposed to be published this week, but instead of going on sale, it was rescheduled to next June. So, there will be no TWOW this year. That is a solid point, I was hoping he would announce the finished manuscript in July as he previously promised and we might get the actual book...by December or something. Well, it's not so bad to have to reread them a 5th time. Even on my fourth reread, I find myself obsessing over every detail, being fully engrossed in each chapter, and loving each twist and turn (even as I know them by heart). Sorry if I seemed a little harsh above Megorova, I actually meant what I said with sincere feeling. I've had a few of my own batsh*t crazy theories over the years, and I missed seeing others share their own. And hell, the first time I saw R+L=J I didn't believe it, and now I'm a firm believer, so who knows what I'll come to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 I think one of the swords may be hiding in plain sight. The explanation Jeor Mormont gave to Jon Snow about Longclaw and it's origins never quite made sense to me. First, no other member of House Mormont ever mentions the sword. This especially applies to Jorah. He's always been very quick to mention the indignities of his past he suffered. It would've been especially pertinent when Dany promised him a Valyrian steel sword. Not to mention the minor detail that Jorah would blindingly desperate for money during the time he supposedly had this Valyrian steel sword, and Tywin Lannister was willing to pay a king's ransom for one. Next, if the sword is what Jeor claims, why did he take it back to Castle Black after Jorah left it behind? He already made the choice to leave it behind, not suddenly he takes it back? I get there's not a male heir, but there may be some day. Taking it to castle Black is the one way to guarantee it never gets passed on to another Mormont. Not to mention the Mormonts seem perfectly fine with female warriors and heads of house. So not giving the sword to a female, even in a caretaker role, doesn't make much sense. Last, it is completely convenient that all identifying marks were destroyed in that fire before the sword shows up in the story. Jeor's explanation makes sense to a casual inquiry, but the more you think about it, the less it really adds up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megorova Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 3 hours ago, TheLastWolf said: And FYI @Megarova, Rohanne Webber is 4“11 while ghost of high heart is only 3 feet tall Though the question is, is that her height when she's standing straight, or when she's stooping? She's old. Old people stoop. Also with age people shrink. Typical height loss after age 40 is 1/2 inch every 10 years (height loss after age 70 is even more rapid). And those people that have low socioeconomic status shrink faster. "Health, Height, Height Shrinkage, and socioeconomic status at Older Ages" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4652843/ If the Ghost is Rohanne, then she is 114 or 115 years old. For the last 40 years, sinse the burning of Summerhall, she was living in ruins. She doesn't eat well, and she's an alcoholic. She shrunk. Yep, she did, from 4'11 to 3 () . And it's not like Arya or Dunk had a ruler with them and measured those women. And it was dark there, and she was skulking - "Arya spied the small pale shape creeping behind the horses, thin white hair flying wild as she leaned upon a gnarled cane. The woman could not have been more than three feet tall." I'm not saying that the Ghost is definitely Rohanne, what I'm saying is that we can't cross out this possibility just because of difference in their heights, aged 25 and aged 115. Also, even if the Ghost is not Rohanne, it doesn't mean that Jenny of Oldstones wasn't Rohanne's daughter or Varys' mother. Maybe Rohanne died in childbirth, and her friend the woodswitch rased her daughter. Thus, Varys still could be the Spider based on him being a grandson of the Red Widow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastWolf Posted June 26, 2020 Author Share Posted June 26, 2020 13 hours ago, Lord Lannister said: First, no other member of House Mormont ever mentions the sword. This especially applies to Jorah. He's always been very quick to mention the indignities of his past he suffered. It would've been especially pertinent when Dany promised him a Valyrian steel sword. Not to mention the minor detail that Jorah would blindingly desperate for money during the time he supposedly had this Valyrian steel sword, and Tywin Lannister was willing to pay a king's ransom for one. I think the sword is associated with the dishonor Jorah brought upon House Mormont so all the Ladies of House Mormont and Jorah himself are ashamed to mention it....so no mention anywhere. And your second point about not selling to Tywin is valid though some reason must be there...like ignorance of its existence? Quote @Megorova , "Also, even if the Ghost is not Rohanne..." Rohanne webber is Old Nan theory is in conflict with yours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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