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TheLastWolf

Where are Dark sister and Blackfyre?

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Posted (edited)

The last known whereabouts of the two ancestral Valyrian steel swords of House Targaryen are not very clear.

We know that Bittersteel (Aegor Rivers) was the last man to have Blackfyre. After him, the trail ends there. Similarly when Lord Bloodraven (Brynden Rivers) took the black, he took Dark sister with him to the Wall in 239 A.C. (semi-canon source). After he became Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, he was lost ranging in 252 A.C. along with the sword. Now we know that he is the three eyed crow with Bran, but the sword's location is yet a mystery.Maybe Maester Aemon would have known, and could've even tried to tell Sam in his dying moments.

I believe if Dany or Young Griff-Aegon or Jon(if R+L=J is true) get their hands on one or both of these swords, their cause would be greatly strengthened.How 'bout you?

Edited by TheLastWolf

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7 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

The last known whereabouts of the two ancestral Valyrian steel swords of House Targaryen are not very clear.

We know that Bittersteel (Aegor Rivers) was the last man to have Blackfyre. After him, the trail ends there. Similarly when Lord Bloodraven (Brynden Rivers) took the black, he took Dark sister with him to the Wall in 239 A.C. (semi-canon source). After he became Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, he was lost ranging in 252 A.C. along with the sword. Now we know that he is the three eyed crow with Bran, but the sword's location is yet a mystery.Maybe Maester Aemon would have known, and could've even tried to tell Sam in his dying moments.

I believe if Dany or Young Griff-Aegon or Jon(if R+L=J is true) get their hands on one or both of these swords, their cause would be greatly strengthened.How 'bout you?

I wonder why Egg let him take the sword to the wall, pretty foolhardy. If he really took it there he still has it somewhere in the cave. Maybe one day Bran - Hodor will swing it. Or maybe Bran will pass it to Jon somehow.

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If Dark Sister is anywhere, I think a likely hiding place for it will be the crypts of Winterfell. As the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, Bloodraven might have traveled to Winterfell several times, might have entrusted the sword to a kinsman for safekeeping. (I think the dragon egg he rescued from Butterwell could be there as well)

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Posted (edited)

I'm betting fAegon will reveal Blackfyre in his possession at some point in the story. But that may be a double-edged sword (pun intended), since it's associated with House Blackfyre rather than House Targaryen. He probably won't reveal it until after he gets the Iron Throne.

Edited by Floki of the Ironborn

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Lord  Cheese has Blackfyre, Dark Sister is lost tho.

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18 minutes ago, Floki of the Ironborn said:

I'm betting fAegon will reveal Blackfyre in his possession at some point in the story. But that may be a double-edged sword (pun intended), since it's associated with House Blackfyre rather than House Targaryen. He probably won't reveal it until after he gets the Iron Throne.

Yup, the golden company may possess the sword. Most of all it was the sword of Aegon I and subsequent Targaryen kings. The fact it was stolen by the usurper does not make much problem I think.

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I'd guess that Dark Sister is somewhere in the network of caverns with Bryndan Rivers (aka Bloodraven, aka the three-eyed crow). Yet this is not going to do any good for Bran Stark, and the idea that he ventures forth in Hodor's flesh to wield it for the War Against the Others doesn't sound right. If Dark Sister is to get out into the world again, perhaps it would by via Meera Reed, or some modern-day hero going to the cave. Jon Snow, if not dead, already is armed with Valyrian steel, so it's probably not him. I'm betting on Dolorous Edd Tollet.

Blackfyre is most likely in Essos, and why should it not be with the Golden Company? If the Griff family had it, they'd show it to old Harry Strickland to prove "Aegon's" bona fides, so likely it's a hidden treasure of the Golden Company, not to be revealed until their triumphant return to Westeros with their legitimate Targaryen (aka Blackfyre) king. On the other hand, we've seen no evidence that they've done that yet, in spite or reconquering Storm's End. What could they be waiting for?

Maybe Euron Greyjoy captured Blackfyre, as a sweet accessory for his Valyrian steel armor.

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2 minutes ago, zandru said:

 Jon Snow, if not dead, already is armed with Valyrian steel, so it's probably not him. I'm betting on Dolorous Edd Tollet.

Sure, no need for Jon to use 2 swords but I think if bloodraven or bran decide to pass it in order to contribute to fight against the Others, the LC of NW would be quite proper person to recieve and dispose it.

Or... if Jon is Rhaegars bastard he has some right to the targs blade. If Jorah joins the NW like his father wanted Mormonts may get the claw back ;-)

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All we can do is make educated guesses at the whereabouts of any of the missing swords.   It is curious that both Targaryan swords are as hidden as the existing Targaryans in our story.   Sorry, thinking Jon here.   So, I agree that Blackfyre lends gravity to fAegon's claim to the throne and is likely with him or his retinue.   This sword will likely be hauled out following a big or even final battle for fAegon as proof of his heritage.   Blackfyre was with the Targaryans before Aegon's conquest.   It is a Targaryan sword.   When it was gifted to Daemon he took the name of the sword as his House name.   It is not in anyway proof of Blackfyre heritage, but of blood of the dragon.   Blackfyre is the sword of dragon kings.  

We know Dark Sister went north with Bloodraven and it makes sense that he kept this valuable reminder of his own heritage with him at all times.  Dark Sister is described as a far more functional sword than the Blackfyre or that monster, Ice.   No reason he could not have kept it at his side on rangings.  On the other hand, would he take a chance with this priceless piece of magical sword?   Yah, I think he would.   It is not simple to just lay out what Bloodraven or even Aegon V had in mind when both agreed to the Wall as fitting punishment.   However, I will throw in with the camp that believes both were interested in magic.  I want to say they had to know how important VS would be in the north against the Others or whatever threat they saw in the prophecies.  Though I cannot throw any of that out at theory or proof, I don't think it's a bad guess at the mechanics of this move.  Dark Sister could be in any place noted above, but I do believe it is in the cave where BR made his final stand.  As a smaller configuration, Bran or Meera or maybe even Jojen could make conventional and effective use of this sword.  

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17 minutes ago, broken one said:

Sure, no need for Jon to use 2 swords but I think if bloodraven or bran decide to pass it in order to contribute to fight against the Others, the LC of NW would be quite proper person to recieve and dispose it.

Or... if Jon is Rhaegars bastard he has some right to the targs blade. If Jorah joins the NW like his father wanted Mormonts may get the claw back ;-)

Now I don't see Jon's claim to Blackfyre (though I understand you expanded this to both Targ swords) often recognized.  Good on you, Man.   I don't make a lot of definite statements, but I will throw in with you 100% on Jon bearing Blackfyre.  Isn't it interesting that Jon already has training with an odd bastard sword configuration as well as VS?  I don't think Jorah will get Longclaw but I do think he will get a big old monster VS sword.   I would be interested in any alternate ideas you might have for the wielder of Longclaw in hopes of finding 1 person on the forum who might agree with my idea for this!  Swords are a great topic.

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Dark sister is either:

1) In Bloodraven’s cave somewhere (COTF will either give it to Bran or keep it. Or its lost somewhere in the cave & or north of the wall somewhere)

2) In wintefell somewhere (not the crypt. If you are a R+L=J supporter, we are more likely to see Rhaegar’s harp in Lyanna’s tomb, not dark sister. R+L=J is wrong too but thats a different thread)

Blackfyre:

1) Varys/Illyriio have it hidden somewhere to give to Aegon (Lysanno Marr probably knows as well)

2) Some random house/family/person in Essos has been hiding it

3) Lost forever

 

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1 hour ago, zandru said:

I'd guess that Dark Sister is somewhere in the network of caverns with Bryndan Rivers (aka Bloodraven, aka the three-eyed crow). Yet this is not going to do any good for Bran Stark, and the idea that he ventures forth in Hodor's flesh to wield it for the War Against the Others doesn't sound right. If Dark Sister is to get out into the world again, perhaps it would by via Meera Reed, or some modern-day hero going to the cave. Jon Snow, if not dead, already is armed with Valyrian steel, so it's probably not him. I'm betting on Dolorous Edd Tollet.

Blackfyre is most likely in Essos, and why should it not be with the Golden Company? If the Griff family had it, they'd show it to old Harry Strickland to prove "Aegon's" bona fides, so likely it's a hidden treasure of the Golden Company, not to be revealed until their triumphant return to Westeros with their legitimate Targaryen (aka Blackfyre) king. On the other hand, we've seen no evidence that they've done that yet, in spite or reconquering Storm's End. What could they be waiting for?

Maybe Euron Greyjoy captured Blackfyre, as a sweet accessory for his Valyrian steel armor.

Whenever I think about Bran/Hodor wielding DS I am reminded of Bran's conversation with Maester Luwin:  

"Bran stared resentfully at the sweating boys below. "If I still had my legs, I could beat them all." He remembered the last time he'd held a sword in his hand, when the king had come to Winterfell. It was only a wooden sword, yet he'd knocked Prince Tommen down half a hundred times. "Ser Rodrik should teach me to use a poleaxe. If I had a poleaxe with a big long haft, Hodor could be my legs. We could be a knight together." AGOT Bran VII

Now I like Meera for wielder of DS, too, not to mention Arya at some point, but if this passage above is the key as opposed to Maester Luwen telling Bran he could be a Knight of the Mind in earlier text...Bran really wants to be a knight.   Maybe I am sentimental, but I would like to see him do a little badassery just as he described.  

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Posted (edited)

I think that the Three-Eyed Crow is Shiera Seastar, not Bloodraven. Also Shiera Seastar is shadowbinder Quaithe (based on her mask "made of starlight", and other hints given in AGOT and ADWD). Thus, in my opinion, she is GRRM's parallel to magical beings from Irish and Welsh mythology - Morgan le Fay, water fairy Nimue the Lady of the Lake (that according to some versions of Arthurian legends gave Excalibur to King Arthur), queen of phantoms Morrigan, Battle Crow Badb Catha, and banshee (because of meaning of names Shiera and Quaithe, which means "long barrow"/grave; and "mor" in Welsh means the sea, so Morgan/Morrigan is basically the same thing as Shiera's name - Sea Star). And Bloodraven is GRRM's parallel to Merlin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgan_le_Fay

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_of_the_Lake#In_Le_Morte_d'Arthur

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Morrígan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badb

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banshee

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merlin#Merlin's_end

Merlin was lured into a trap by the woman that he loved, she casted a spell on him, and binded him to a magical tree in an underground cave, and left him there.

Thus, I'm sure that to Bloodraven happened the same thing - Shiera lured him beyond The Wall, brought him to the Children's cave, made him to eat weirwood seed paste, and when he woke up, he was "wedded to a tree" - weirwood seeds from his stomach grew thru his internal organs, muscles and bones, and binded him with tree roots to that cave. The same thing will (already) happen to Bran.

So, it's likely that, when Shiera left Bloodraven to feed the Weirwood (she sacrificed him to the Old Gods, to postpone the arrival of the Long Night until the birth of the Promised Prince), she took his sword with her. And later she will give it to Dany. Dark Sister for a Targaryen Queen. Dany is a parallel to King Arthur, and Shiera is her Nimue.

The last known owner of Blackfyre was Haegon I Blackfyre, he was killed by Targaryen people after he gave up his sword. Thus next, unnamed owners of Blackfyre were Targaryens (Maekar, and then Aegon (or Duncan the Tall, who was actually bastard-son of Daemon I Blackfyre and princess Daenerys Targaryen)).

I think that Blackfyres were involved in the burning of Summerhall, so they stole some things from that castle, while Barristan Selmy was saving survivors. In my opinion Blackfyres kidnapped Jenny of Oldstones (daughter of the Ghost of High Heart, whose real name is Rohanna Webber-Lannister, the Red Widow), and stole Blackfyre from dying Aegon/Duncan. Varys is Jenny's son, so he's a grandson of the Red Widow, that's why his nickname is the Spider. Thus Blackfyre was in Golden Company's possession after the burning of Summerhall, thru the War of Ninepenny Kings and afterwards. Though Maelys the Monstrous (who is one of possible candidates for being Varys' father, along with Duncan the Small, and Daemon the Unnumbered Blackfyre) wasn't using that sword, because Blackfyre is a half-sword, and Maelys was using bigger weapons (there's a picture of him in the World Book facing off against Barristan Selmy, and he doesn't have a sword). So, Blackfyre remained in Essos, until Illyrio sent it to fAegon, in that chest, ADWD Tyrion III -> "There is a gift for the boy in one of the chests. Some candied ginger. He was always fond of it." Illyrio sounded oddly sad."

Why I think that in that chest was Blackfyre sword and not sweets, ACOK Tyrion V, - "The damp stone walls were splotchy with nitre, and the only light came from the sealed iron-and-glass oil lamp that Hallyne the Pyromancer carried so gingerly.

Gingerly indeed . . . and these would be the ginger jars. Tyrion lifted one for inspection. It was round and ruddy, a fat clay grapefruit. A little big for his hand, but it would fit comfortably in the grip of a normal man, he knew. The pottery was thin, so fragile that even he had been warned not to squeeze too tightly, lest he crush it in his fist. The clay felt roughened, pebbled. Hallyne told him that was intentional. "A smooth pot is more apt to slip from a man's grasp." The wildfire oozed slowly toward the lip of the jar when Tyrion tilted it to peer inside."

Wildfire in "ginger" jars, Blackfyre-sword instead of candied ginger. Why else to write about that ginger? It's not like fAegon couldn't have bought candied ginger elsewhere/anywhere in Essos, instead of waiting for Illyrio to send some to him.

Thus, Dany will be wielding Dark Sister, fAegon Blackfyre, and Jon Dawn-Lightbringer. Then fAegon will die, and the sword will be retrieved by Targaryens, and later will be wielded by Rhaego, when he will grow up.

Edited by Megorova

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25 minutes ago, One-eyed Misbehavin said:

@Curled Finger how about another collaboration of finding VS weapons and where they might end up post again? I love speculating that stuff

Ah thanks, but my topics don't seem to drum up a lot of interest any more.   I think it's time to let these brave new Rhoynish take over topics for a while.  Old Andals like us can kick back and soak it all in.  They are certainly doing a good job in my estimation!  

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38 minutes ago, Megorova said:

I think that the Three-Eyed Crow is Shiera Seastar, not Bloodraven.

Well, then how do you rationalize the description of the Crow as a man? Wearing ranger blacks? With one eye? And having a large red birthmark on his face and down his neck? And being an albino, with a red eye?

Remember, Game of Thrones isn't just a rewrite of old European legends and histories! Everything doesn't have to have been written about before.

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6 hours ago, Floki of the Ironborn said:

I'm betting fAegon will reveal Blackfyre in his possession at some point in the story. But that may be a double-edged sword (pun intended), since it's associated with House Blackfyre rather than House Targaryen. He probably won't reveal it until after he gets the Iron Throne.

Aegon or if you prefer Griffin, will have Blackfyre.  That is his trump card.  Swords can be faked because VS can be reshaped but I think he will have the real deal.  The sword names are clues.  I don't have anything to support this theory.  It is just a hunch.  Meera will get her hands on Dark Sister.  At least for a short while.  It will be tremendously useful to her.  Let's be real, Dany does not need Dark Sister because she has her dragons.  Arya is too small to make proper use of that sword.  Meera too is small but she is pretty strong.  Besides, if Dany were to own a sword, it will be called Light Sister or something like that.  Jon already has Longclaw.  The one who really could use D/S and use it to its full potential is Barristan.  

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I agree that Blackfyre is likely with f)aegon/illyrio. 

I honestly have no idea about Dark Sister, a long time ago I though it was actually Longclaw, but I've since been convinced otherwise(shoutout to @Curled Finger) I do however still think there is a possibility it was left at the wall by BR, but it could just as well be in the caves or somewhere at winterfell(I suppose the idea of this is that Ned was eventually going to give it to Jon when he revealed his heritage). I do definitely think both are important and we will see them again in the novels.

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1 hour ago, zandru said:

1. Well, then how do you rationalize the description of the Crow as a man? Wearing ranger blacks? With one eye? And having a large red birthmark on his face and down his neck? And being an albino, with a red eye?

2. Remember, Game of Thrones isn't just a rewrite of old European legends and histories! Everything doesn't have to have been written about before.

1. Bloodraven never said that he is the Three-Eyed Crow. Cold Hands never said that he will bring Bran and Co to the 3EC. George Martin never said that Bloodraven is the 3EC (what he ACTUALLY said about the 3EC is a big hint about 3EC's identity). I found in the books 13+ hints that Bloodraven is not the 3EC, and 19+ clues that the 3EC is Shiera. For example, her "third eye" is Euron Greyjoy, her ex-apprentice, whose nickname is the Crow's Eye, because thru blood magic his dark eye is binded to Shiera, she is able to see thru his eye, that's why he's covering that eye, to prevent her from spying after him, because he betrayed her, and is using what he learned from her to become a winnner in a Big Game.

2. ASOIAF is a mixture of GRRM's original ideas (also he's using previous history to give hints about upcoming events. For example, in The Mystery Knight Ambrose's dragon egg was stolen by mummer-dwarfs, and prior events of AGOT Dany's three dragon eggs were retrieved from the Sealord of Braavos also by mummer-dwarfs), Biblical elements (a LOT of them), Irish and Welsh mythology, Northern mythology, Arthurian legends, The Lord of the Rings and Hobbit, and many others. This thread is an evidence of that: https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/784-references-and-homages/

Lightbringer is an obvious hint to King Arthur's Excalibur and Aragorn's Anduril. Jon/Aegon VII Targaryen, Arthur Pendragon, Aragorn is an obvious variations of the word dragon. Etc., etc., etc. So it's not impossible or even unlikely that Shiera and Bloodraven were written by GRRM as parallels to previously existing characters created by other writers. 

33 minutes ago, Prince Rhaego's Soul said:

Besides, if Dany were to own a sword, it will be called Light Sister or something like that.  Jon already has Longclaw.  The one who really could use D/S and use it to its full potential is Barristan. 

Dany promised a Valyrian Steel blade to Jorah, thus eventually Jon will give Longclaw back to a Mormont. Jon's sword is Lightbringer, Dawn of Daynes. Furthermore, Barristan is, most likely, a Blackfyre and fAegon's father (the mother is septa Lemore/Lady Jayne Swann, and Barristan's mother is Aenys Blackfyre's daughter. Aenys, most likely, was executed with Dark Sister, thus it will be ironic if Aenys' grandson, Barri, will become a wielder of that sword and will try to kill a Targaryen with it). So if Dany will give that sword to Barristan, then probably he will try to kill her with it, when he will find out that fAegon is his son, and he will have to chose either to kill his son or to kill his Queen (the last out of three treasons predicted by the Undying, the treason for love). And we know how similar dilemma was solved by Jaime Lannister - he chose family over duty, when Aerys ordered him to kill Tywin.

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