Would ICE be reforged? Plus Lamentation, Lady Forlorn and Widows Wail spoilers.

[TheLastWolf]

With the ancestral Valyrian greatsword of the Starks ,Ice melted down and reforged into Widow's Wail (Tywin's gift to Joffrey) and Oathkeeper (Jaime's gift to Brienne) by Tobho Mott, will we ever see them back together as Ice if the Starks are resurgent or if they ally themselves with any of the dragon claimants (Dany or Aegon) ?

I really want it to happen as Valyrian swords are the identity of any noble and ancient House (provided that they have one in the first place) and would hate to see them lost, stolen or reforged (except in Houses I hate, like the Boltons or the Freys, who have none).

[Brandon Ice-Eyes]

3 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

With the ancestral Valyrian greatsword of the Starks ,Ice melted down and reforged into Widow's Wail (Tywin's gift to Joffrey) and Oathkeeper (Jaime's gift to Brienne) by Tobho Mott, will we ever see them back together as Ice if the Starks are resurgent or if they ally themselves with any of the dragon claimants (Dany or Aegon) ?

I really want it to happen as Valyrian swords are the identity of any noble and ancient House (provided that they have one in the first place) and would hate to see them lost, stolen or reforged (except in Houses I hate, like the Boltons or the Freys, who have none).

I think that if the original Ice will not be found then they might get back oathkeeper but probably not widows wail. If you believe in the theory that Dawn is the original ice - which I do - then they might get Dawn instead. But personally I don’t think they’re getting back the Valyrian steel greatsword Ice.

[broken one]

If it is true that the Others may be killed with valyrian steel then 2 swords are better than 1.

[frenin]

Nope. Besides Ice was wildly impracticable so as long as the swords are returned  to their legal owners, good riddance.

[zandru]

No way. The whole "melting down" meme was from That Which May Not Be Named. Ice was Valyrian steel, whose most visible characteristic was its rippled design, created by folding and refolding, hammering out and repeating the process. Once you melt something like that (assuming that Westerosi even have the technology to create that kind of heat), you've lost the Valyrian steel characteristics. What Tobho Mah most likely did was cut Ice into two parts, then hammer each into a longer, narrower shape. No, it isn't easy. You don't just pour out that kind of thing and be done with it.

To rejoin two swords into one humongous greatsword, you might risk having a severe weakness where the two disparate blades were hammered together, even assuming the smith had mastered the necessary spells. (Remember, Valyrian steel is not just a fancier Damascus steel.)

Then also, as others have noted, you're reduced your number of Valyrian swords from two to one, and the one takes more skill and strength to wield. Lose - lose.

[Curled Finger]

5 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

With the ancestral Valyrian greatsword of the Starks ,Ice melted down and reforged into Widow's Wail (Tywin's gift to Joffrey) and Oathkeeper (Jaime's gift to Brienne) by Tobho Mott, will we ever see them back together as Ice if the Starks are resurgent or if they ally themselves with any of the dragon claimants (Dany or Aegon) ?

I really want it to happen as Valyrian swords are the identity of any noble and ancient House (provided that they have one in the first place) and would hate to see them lost, stolen or reforged (except in Houses I hate, like the Boltons or the Freys, who have none).

Hrm, I'm tripping on your wording.  The Ice we saw in AGOT was named for a much older sword called Ice.   I get it that you get that, but I wanted to be sure I was clear.  Lousy GRRM loves to trick me so I'm thinking Gendry's trade may be some misdirection pointing to the possibility that Ice would be um, reunited.  It is a testament to Martin's brilliant writing that so many readers want Ice to be restored to House Stark in it's former glorious form.  It's not a bad idea, but I don't read House Stark getting any breaks at all, so I doubt he will give them this gift.  In it's present form, OK & WW, the wonderful Brienne gets a sword as just as herself and Widows Wail allows either a fierce small or maimed character the opportunity to kick some Others butt.  I have vacillated between Jamie and Theon wielding WW for a long time now and have settled on Jamie.   Wouldn't this be a suitable completion to Jamie's internal quest for true knighthood?  He can help save the country again.   And Theon seems perfectly capable of wielding your basic longsword with no problem as evidenced in his beheading of the IB captain.  Theon doesn't need a special sword.   I don't know that Jamie could have such an opportunity without the emergence of a magical sword just exactly like Widows Wail.   We could have a similar conversation about Dark Sister, but I will wait for you to post a topic before opening that can of worms.   Keep 'em coming, Man.  

[Darth Sidious]

I do not believe the two swords will be reforged into one.  Not in the time span of the novels.  The plot of the story is disintegration because of the harm that love does.  There are other causes of failure and unethical behavior but it is mostly love which turn people away from duty.  So the Stark sword was the first to be broken.  The Iron Throne will also break apart.  We will get a POV at the end from the main characters who will be contemplating the reforging of the Iron Throne (probably a POV from Daenerys)  as well as the rejoining of Ice (Bran POV) but we will not get to see those things happen.  

[Curled Finger]

5 minutes ago, Prince Rhaego's Soul said:

I do not believe the two swords will be reforged into one.  Not in the time span of the novels.  The plot of the story is disintegration because of the harm that love does.  There are other causes of failure and unethical behavior but it is mostly love which turn people away from duty.  So the Stark sword was the first to be broken.  The Iron Throne will also break apart.  We will get a POV at the end from the main characters who will be contemplating the reforging of the Iron Throne (probably a POV from Daenerys)  as well as the rejoining of Ice (Bran POV) but we will not get to see those things happen.  

That's truly dark, Man.   I like it. 

[Darth Sidious]

26 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

That's truly dark, Man.   I like it. 

George Martin is the Creator.  He wants it dark, it's dark.  I saw his interview in which he says the writer should write what they enjoy reading,  

[Dorian Martell's son]

15 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

With the ancestral Valyrian greatsword of the Starks ,Ice melted down and reforged into Widow's Wail (Tywin's gift to Joffrey) and Oathkeeper (Jaime's gift to Brienne) by Tobho Mott, will we ever see them back together as Ice if the Starks are resurgent or if they ally themselves with any of the dragon claimants (Dany or Aegon) ?

I really want it to happen as Valyrian swords are the identity of any noble and ancient House (provided that they have one in the first place) and would hate to see them lost, stolen or reforged (except in Houses I hate, like the Boltons or the Freys, who have none).

No

[TheLastWolf]

17 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

   We could have a similar conversation about Dark Sister, but I will wait for you to post a topic before opening that can of worms.   Keep 'em coming, Man.  

I have already posted a topic about Dark sister and Blackfyre which is currently my top topic.Please do see that....and Thanks for your support. 

 

[TheLastWolf]

On 6/23/2020 at 1:30 AM, Prince Rhaego's Soul said:

The plot of the story is disintegration because of the harm that love does. 

So I think that your point could also support the theory that Westeros is once again going to be separated seven kingdoms again. Maybe the Painted table will split exactly into the borders of the seven kingdoms as a sign. And it could have connections with European mythology like the end of King Arthur's Round Table.

Quote

"King Arthur and the prince who was promised, Excalibur and Light bringer, Merlin and Bloodraven, Nimue and Shiera/Quaithe, are all links between European mythology and ASOIAF"

the above quote is from one of my posts

 

[TheLastWolf]

On 6/22/2020 at 10:24 PM, Curled Finger said:

We could have a similar conversation about Dark Sister, but I will wait for you to post a topic before opening that can of worms.   Keep 'em coming, Man. 

Come on man I've not seen you there, @Curled Finger

[Bloodraven’s Spider]

I think the Starks will get a Valyrian steel sword back in their possession and rename it Ice. That sword will either be Lady Forlorn or Oathkeeper 

[Curled Finger]

5 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

Come on man I've not seen you there, @Curled Finger

We were all over that one.  Topic got derailed.   What's next?  What have you got for Longclaw?  

[ivanro]

No.

Ice's completely broken apart, melted, made into other swords represents what has happened to House Stark: Ned ended, the family broken up all over the place, Winterfell absorbed by others, etc.

Some other greatsword may be named Ice in the future if the Starks return to their former glory, but not Ice as we know it.

[TheLastWolf]

16 hours ago, Bloodraven’s Spider said:

I think the Starks will get a Valyrian steel sword back in their possession and rename it Ice. That sword will either be Lady Forlorn or Oathkeeper 

Could be Dawn too, as some believe that Ned gave Ice to Ashara dayne and kept Dawn for himself after slaying Ser Arthur Dayne. So Dawn was the ICE that got reforged into Widow's Wail and OathKeeper. So the real Ice may be the one that is now Dawn. And there are theories that Dawn was not forged from the heart of a fallen star, it was actually Ice. And that person who forged it was Azhor Azhai so DAWN which was Ice was actually the original Lightbringer. Somehow NED got to know this and did all he did bcoz of this.

[Bloodraven’s Spider]

4 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

Could be Dawn too, as some believe that Ned gave Ice to Ashara dayne and kept Dawn for himself after slaying Ser Arthur Dayne. So Dawn was the ICE that got reforged into Widow's Wail and OathKeeper. So the real Ice may be the one that is now Dawn. And there are theories that Dawn was not forged from the heart of a fallen star, it was actually Ice. And that person who forged it was Azhor Azhai so DAWN which was Ice was actually the original Lightbringer. Somehow NED got to know this and did all he did bcoz of this.

No... Dawn isn’t Valyrian steel so it cant be Dawn. 

Though i think Jon will wield Dawn as he is the Song of the Morning (N+A= J)

[Darth Sidious]

On 6/24/2020 at 10:33 AM, TheLastWolf said:

So I think that your point could also support the theory that Westeros is once again going to be separated seven kingdoms again. Maybe the Painted table will split exactly into the borders of the seven kingdoms as a sign. And it could have connections with European mythology like the end of King Arthur's Round Table.

the above quote is from one of my posts

 

The story in the west has been about the harm that love can cause.  I know, I know, we are always told that love is the answer to everything.  I think George has spent a lot of time studying the decisions people have made and why they did it.  Love is just as harmful as hate.  Passion and strong feelings energize people to action.  They work hard and take risks for this love.  Unfortunately, passions leads to bad consequences as well as good.  Take the case in the west.  Cersei and Jaime love their children and  so they do horrible things.  They tried to murder an innocent boy to protect their children from the harm their own actions would cause.  How is that for totally messed up.  Yet this is the one side of love that we rarely ever see in stories and comfort fiction.  Jon Snow had a job to do and was starting to finally get the idea but he lost his way because of his love for Arya.  He betrayed the people who were counting on him in order to get Arya away from her husband.  Treason, basically.  Jon's antics will result in the destruction of the Night's Watch.  Cat's need to find justice for Bran made her do something foolish.  It started the war with the Lannisters.  Many people, including children, died because of it.  

[TheLastWolf]

On 6/22/2020 at 10:24 PM, Curled Finger said:

 I don't know that Jamie could have such an opportunity without the emergence of a magical sword just exactly like Widows Wail. 

As to the location of Widows Wail, I read a theory about it from ladygeynhyfvar. 

https://ladygwynhyfvar.com/2020/06/02/the-kings-tapestries/

Could it be that Petyr Baelish smuggled Both Lamentation and Widows Wail to the Vale in the tapestries? Are the hunting tapestries symbolic? 

If you feel that this is worth a new thread/topic, I'll be pleased to oblige. If it has already been discussed, please send me a link(/s) of it, @Curled Finger it has been nagging me for a while.