Jaqen H'ghar/Gerion Lannister? Tysha and the Sailor's Wife?

[TheLastWolf]

I have this crackpot theory (that's for you to decide) that Jaqen H'ghar is really Gerion Lannister. Let me explain why before you start cursing me.

The Valyrian steel greatsword of House Lannister, Brightroar was lost with Tommen II Lannister when he sailed to the Smoking Sea, to find riches, plunder and the remaining sorcery in the ruins of Valyria, a century after the Doom. The fleet, Tommen and Brightroar never neturned.

Now fast forward to 291 A.C. when Gerion Lannister, Tywin's youngest brother and Tyrion's favourite uncle goes on a 'fools' quest to retrieve the sword and find all the riches and remaining sorcery on his ship 'Laughing Lion'. He too was last seen at Old Volantis  when half his crew deserted him and he had to buy slaves for oarsmen to row the ship to the Smoking Sea.

I think he did find Brightroar ,but also something more that made him ambitious....something about dragons and sorcery. Point to be noted was that his brother Tygett had also spoken about dragons previously...this we know from Tyrion , so it would not be a surprise if another uncle was also interested about it. So then Gerion joins the Faceless Men and hides Brightroar like Arya did Needle to claim it later when the time was right. After training, he took the identity of a Lorathi, Jaqen H'ghar. He must have traveled to King's landing to find out more about his new obsession from all the Targaryenish things Robert hid away after coming to power. But he must have been caught and put in the black cells (we all know Robert's hatred for all things Targaryen) and the rest we know....Yoren....Harrenhal...Arya...new appearance.

Then he must have got the dragon egg from Euron for killing Balon Greyjoy... or could've found the hidden dragon egg which Bloodraven took from Butterwell. I incline towards the former theory. Then he must have been the Alchemist who kills Pate and takes over his identity in Oldtown. Now he also has Archmaester Walgrave's key that can open any door in the Citadel... especially a certain hidden door with a certain rare-only-one-in-the-world copy of a certain book about dragons which Tyrion mentions in ADWD.

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"And of course there was even less chance of his coming on the fragmentary, anonymous, blood-soaked tome sometimes called Blood and Fire and sometimes The Death of Dragons, the only surviving copy of which was supposedly hidden away in a locked vault beneath the Citadel."

 With the book, Jaqen could hatch the dragon egg....and if my theory is false, then Jaqen must be hired by someone who is Anti-Targaryen and anti-dragon (the grey sheep?)

P.S. I think Gerion's bastard daughter Joy Hill (by some common woman called Briony) could also be instrumental in the plot if my theory is somewhat true at least.

Oh, I almost forgot that some believe Euron is in cahoots with Jaqen (even if he is Gerion or not) and both betrayed QUAITHE/SHIERA SEASTAR.

[TheLastWolf]

I have good reason to believe that The Sailor's wife in Braavos is not Tysha like some believe and actually mother to Gerion Lannister's hitherto second unknown baseborn daughter, Lanna.

• Tysha was not a whore
• Tyrion was never a sailor,while Gerion was.
• Tysha was just a crofter's daughter. Once she was....sent from Tyrion, she would have either commited suicide,married some fat innkeep and had lotsof kids,or plotted revenge. Why would she go to a strange and unknown place like Braavos when the world she knew was only the westerlands?
• The Sailor's wife's daughter has golden hair and is named Lanna (feminine form of Lann ,origin of Lannister) You may argue that it could be Tyrion who's the father, but would Tysha want to keep a name that would remind her of that gruesome past? Moreover I believe that Tyrion's father is Aerys, as Tyrion's different hair color like Valyrians rather than Lannister gold,mismatched eyes,dwarfism and Tywin's telling him that he was no son of his are certain small proofs....but that is a different thread. So it has to be Gerion.
• Lanna is 14 while Joy Hill is 12 running(born in 288 A.C.) so some may argue that Gerion sailed for Valyria only in 291 AC. how could he have fathered Lanna before/I say why not? he was a sailor before and my above theory also supports that Braavos is where Gerion went to become a FM in the HOBAW. And maybe entrusted BRIGHTROAR  to his whore wife and daughter.
• Penny and Groat stayed at Braavos in a whorehouse before the Purple wedding(courtesy LITTLEFINGER) it could even be with Sailor's wife and Lanna. Are these characters players in Littlefinger's game? or is Jaqen/gerion involved? Or Varys and Illyrio too involved(remember how penny and co got the dragon eggs in braavos from the sealord for the eunuch spider and lord cheese?)

[Curled Finger]

Oh boy.  I have enjoyed your other sword topics a great deal.  You are obviously interested in them.  Brightroar is honestly my only interest in this complicated post.   The VS swords are as important characters in ASOIAF as any noble house or place.   They have meaning to this story.  While I can appreciate that most readers want Brightroar to be recovered and returned to play, that's not how she's written.   At least not how I have read her.  Brightroar was obtained by the Lannisters despite a curse.  I suspect they worked very long and hard to procure this greatsword, with all the devious cunning and deceit and gold they could muster.  Brightroar appeared in the century before the Doom and was lost in the century following, not a century later.  For all we know Brightroar could have been in play for as little as 3 years or as many as 299.  Because of my own understanding of the swords as characters I tend to go with a shorter rather than longer possession.  Brightroar's loss was the reason for Tywin's claiming and reforging Ice.  He tried very hard for a long time to get any Valyrian Steel sword from anyone he thought he could approach.   He wasted no time in reimagining Ice as Lannister.   

Joffrey was given Widow's Wail, the smaller of the 2 swords Ice became while Tywin withheld the bigger blade, Oathkeeper, for his intended heir who had no sword hand or intention of ruling Casterly Rock.   In a very subtle way Tywin made the smaller sword a Baratheon legacy, as Joffrey would never rule the Lannister homelands.  (Please, I know Joffrey's lineage, this is an appearance thing.   Tywin's ego would not allow him to give the grander sword to a king even.)  Within weeks of destroying Ice, Widow's Wail is placed in storage--or something--and Tywin's heir gives the intended Lannister sword to another person from the Stormlands.  There is an awful lot of F**k you, Tywin, in this gift to Brienne.

In summary I believe we have already have Brightroar incarnate in Oathkeeper and to a lesser degree, Widow's Wail.  The Lannister legacy is gone--twice over.  The Stark legacy was taken and lost, too.   All to feed one enormous Lannister ego.   In my estimation there is no point in Gerion Lannister finding Brightroar.   I am willing to accept Oathkeeper and Widows Wail as important, valuable and even necessary replacements for both Brightroar and Ice.  

[TheLastWolf]

On 6/25/2020 at 9:33 PM, Curled Finger said:

Brightroar was obtained by the Lannisters despite a curse

Care to elaborate on that? 

[Curled Finger]

1 hour ago, TheLastWolf said:

Care to elaborate on that? 

Septon Barth speculated on the matter, referring to a Valyrian text that has since been lost, suggesting that the Freehold's sorcerers foretold that the gold of Casterly Rock would destroy them. TWOAIF The Westerlands

[TheLastWolf]

On 6/25/2020 at 9:33 PM, Curled Finger said:

Oh boy.  I have enjoyed your other sword topics a great deal.  You are obviously interested in them.  Brightroar is honestly my only interest in this complicated post.

Thank you. And also feel free to discuss this complicated post when you're...well..free.

On 6/25/2020 at 9:33 PM, Curled Finger said:

There is an awful lot of F**k you, Tywin, in this gift to Brienne.

great...i loved it

On 6/25/2020 at 9:33 PM, Curled Finger said:

In my estimation there is no point in Gerion Lannister finding Brightroar.

to this i disagree as my theory's point is having it has a main supportive point.

[Alyn Oakenfist]

At this point the question is who isn't Jaqen H'ghar?

[Lady Anna]

I disagree with your first theory but I agree that the Sailor's Wife lover was Gerion.

[TheLastWolf]

On 6/30/2020 at 6:56 PM, Alyn Oakenfist said:

At this point the question is who isn't Jaqen H'ghar?

But we look forward to who might he be now(Alchemist etc) .... Shouldn't we be looking back at his origins to determine his agenda? 

[TheLastWolf]

On 6/27/2020 at 7:23 PM, Curled Finger said:

Septon Barth speculated on the matter, referring to a Valyrian text that has since been lost, suggesting that the Freehold's sorcerers foretold that the gold of Casterly Rock would destroy them. TWOAIF The Westerlands

Overlooking posts seems to be a problem with me....but does this mean that the line of the lions (baaaad pun, i know) is going to end (like the Gardners of the Reach etc)?, @Curled Finger

[Curled Finger]

8 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

Overlooking posts seems to be a problem with me....but does this mean that the line of the lions (baaaad pun, i know) is going to end (like the Gardners of the Reach etc)?, @Curled Finger

Well, you have been busy.   Sometimes it's just better to return and comb through in a different frame of mind.   This here little curse foretells of the destruction of Valyria, not the Lannisters.  It does, however, indicate that the Valyrians wanted nothing to do with the gold of Casterly Rock.   This could be because something in the land/air/water is somehow dangerous to Valyria, but could also point to this wealth of the Lannisters.   Far better minds have tackled this, I just know them there Lannisters should never have had a purchased VS sword.  Really bad juju.  Seeing as this is a text originating with sorcerers it could be some magical thing.   More than 1 place to go with this, but I get the feeling that Brightroar was doomed the moment the Lannisters decided they wanted it.  

[TheLastWolf]

15 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

but I get the feeling that Brightroar was doomed the moment the Lannisters decided they wanted it.  

Or maybe the other way, the Lannisters were doomed when they wanted Brightroar. 

15 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Well, you have been busy.   Sometimes it's just better to return and comb through in a different frame of mind. 

Yep. You got it. 

15 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

More than 1 place to go with this,

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Or maybe the other way, the Lannisters were doomed when they wanted Brightroar. 

 

[SerDuncan]

Typing Jaqen Ger instead of gar led me here. 

All good except for a weak link. Reasons for the black cells sound unconvincing. Half hearted. Like in five minutes deadline or lazy. No off. You had to come up with something to link the chain 

Here's something more imaginative 

What if he was after the skulls of Balerion and Vhagar? For some Melisandre hair/nail like magic perhaps ? 

Edit 

Saw that you linked your imagery to the Lannister curse. Missed it in the OP. Saw it in the recent topic