The next Baratheon

[Nevets]

20 hours ago, frenin said:

I don't really know how it can be figured out, Jon is Ned's copy and people believe him his bastards, in fact Gendry looks so much like Robert and Renly that only plot explains why he is still in the dark, that or the fact that people are used to think of fat Robert.

The only literal thing Gendry needs to do for people to know who he comes from is wash himself and put on some nice clothes.  Besides people know Gendry is Robert's son, Varys does and Brienne figured it out inlike what 5 minutes.

As long as he is toiling away in a blacksmith's shop, nobody is going to notice him, and nobody is going to care much if they do.  Brienne suspects who he is, but I don't think she will do much about it.  Varys isn't going to know unless he does something of significance, in which case he might deserve a leadership position.  But I don't see that happening.  Arya had to browbeat and lie to him to get him to leave Harrenhal, and while he has shown a little more initiative, it hasn't been much.

As for Jon, he is already a public figure with obvious leadership and military skills.  You may disagree on where his leadership leads to, but it is clear that he can lead people.  As  to his parentage, once you consider Lyanna as the Stark parent, the pieces fall into place.  Teenage girl kidnapped and held captive for over a year, and her brother shows up with a child clearly conceived during the time she is missing, and states she is dead.  I'm surprised nobody picked up on it, Ned's claims or not.  Once you ignore anything he says about Jon, it becomes pretty obvious.

[frenin]

10 minutes ago, Nevets said:

As long as he is toiling away in a blacksmith's shop, nobody is going to notice him, and nobody is going to care much if they do.

As long as people feel they need him, insert x reasons, he is going to be noticed eventually. 

 

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in which case he might deserve a leadership position.  But I don't see that happening.  Arya had to browbeat and lie to him to get him to leave Harrenhal, and while he has shown a little more initiative, it hasn't been much.

I'm not arguing that.

 

10 minutes ago, Nevets said:

Brienne suspects who he is, but I don't think she will do much about it.

Brienne knows who he is but she can't do anything about, nor Brienne cares about it really.

 

10 minutes ago, Nevets said:

Varys isn't going to know unless he does something of significance, in which case he might deserve a leadership position. 

Varys already knows who he is.

 

10 minutes ago, Nevets said:

As for Jon, he is already a public figure with obvious leadership and military skills

Eeh, i wouldn't say much about his military skills but he does lead the crows. I don't really think that qualifies him to anything else tho. Jon isn't offered Winterfell because of his alledged skills but quite literally because he is the last son of Ned Stark.

I don't really know why Gendry is going to be different.

Besides that isn't my argument.

 

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As  to his parentage, once you consider Lyanna as the Stark parent, the pieces fall into place.  Teenage girl kidnapped and held captive for over a year, and her brother shows up with a child clearly conceived during the time she is missing, and states she is dead.  I'm surprised nobody picked up on it, Ned's claims or not.  Once you ignore anything he says about Jon, it becomes pretty obvious

It hasn't become obvious in nearly 20 years, it's not going to become obvious now.

Jon is Ned's copy which calls into question any other narrative.  Ofc that once you have all the pieces it becomes pretty obvious, the Westerosi don't have that luxury, nor they will suddenly ignore anything he knows about Jon.

[nyser1]

I think it is fitting that a bastard (Edric if not Gendry) takes over the ancient Durrandon line with this latest "seismic shift" in Westerosi Politics.

Even if Stannis were to live, everything we know about his relationship with Selyse, their history, and this relationship with Melisandre seem to foreshadow inability to a male heir. I almost feel like their is some symbolism with Shireen.

[TheLastWolf]

On 7/8/2020 at 4:41 PM, Nevets said:

As long as he is toiling away in a blacksmith's shop, nobody is going to notice him, and nobody is going to care much if they do

You need a re-read immediately if you still think that he's doing that, @Nevets. He's Ser Gendry of the Hollow Hill now.

On 7/8/2020 at 4:41 PM, Nevets said:

Brienne suspects who he is, but I don't think she will do much about it.  Varys isn't going to know unless he does something of significance, in which case he might deserve a leadership position. 

• WHO ALL KNOW.....
• Stannis. Went with [Jonarryn]
• Tobho mott, MUST know.
• [Ned]
• Brienne
• Thoros, (he was at court for too long and too close with Robert to not know. Now with BwB, it is all but confirmed for him)
• Arya suspects. During the Cersei-Gold cloak incident and Tansy's Peaches incident and a few more incidents which I forgot.
• Varys only paid double so Tobho Mott would take Gendry as an apprentice. With many probable theories about Varys being a Blackfyre (it is clear he's for the dragons, Targ or Blackfyre no matter), I think that the Blonde woman who is remembered by Gendry as his mother is a Targ/B.Fyre/dragonseed. Any ideas?

Or Cersei.

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Cersei described her son as having been a black-haired beauty who died of a fever. Gendry does not remember much of his mother, except that she was blonde. Cersei could have had a strong dislike for her son since she also had a strong dislike for his father, King Robert. She would have probably fancied Joffrey - or mainly a pure Lannister to sit on the Iron throne. She could have sent someone to kill the baby Gendry by poison, thus causing a fever that could have potentially killed him. I believe that whoever was ordered to kill Gendry could have retrieved some sort of chemical that could have caused Gendry's fever, yet not cause him death. This individual would have then taken the boy and perhaps given him to another to raise him. This would make Gendry legitimate.

Or someone else like...

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But if we're looking for crackpot, here be crackpot: Gendry's mom is Malora "the Mad Maid" Hightower. Robert had sex with Malora when he visited the Reach (he told Ned about it in Game, and it seems like he really enjoyed that trip). But then Malora knew she was pregnant, and having a "mad" or rebellious streak she went to KL alone to confront Robert about the baby. Cersei was having none of it, though, and told the guards not to let Malora in and threatened to kill her if she came back (Malora didn't use her real identity so as to not embarrass her family further). She worked for a bit as an alehouse worker, incognito, till she gave birth to Gendry. Not long after, a pissed off Leyton showed up looking for her. He told her he wasn't gonna let his House suffer any more shame (Lynesse becoming some sort of concubine was shameful enough). So he forced her to leave the baby with Tobho Mott, promising he'd pay regularly for his apprentice fee so the baby could have a nice life. Malora named him Gendry after Gerold Hightower - the White Bull -, and the name proved prophetic as he grew up to be stubborn and strong as a a bull, as signified by his bull helmet. Malora has spent the rest of her days at the Hightower, as punishment for her transgression. 

Only problem is hair color. Malora was auburn while Gendry remembers blonde. Maybe it was some hired wetnurse?

On 7/8/2020 at 4:41 PM, Nevets said:

in which case he might deserve a leadership position.  But I don't see that happening.

Gendry has proved himself several times with Arya and the BwB. His survival with the much hunted BwB itself speaks volumes about his battle prowess. He has leadership qualities too. I cant bother to list them all again, view his wiki page or something. I have listed why he is more suited to rule and why the smallfolk will accept him etc etc in my OP and following posts.

The Bull helm is significant. (Where the hell is it anyway???)

It may be taken as his new sigil or something if he doesn't go with Baratheon (as Durrandon became Baratheon after Orys and his deeds)

[Nevets]

3 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

You need a re-read immediately if you still think that he's doing that, @Nevets. He's Ser Gendry of the Hollow Hill now

When Brienne arrived at the Crossroads Inn, he was working in the blacksmiths' shop there.  And Beric appeared willing to knight practically anybody, whether they could use a sword or not.

3 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

• WHO ALL KNOW.....
• Stannis. Went with [Jonarryn]
• Tobho mott, MUST know.
• [Ned]
• Brienne
• Thoros, (he was at court for too long and too close with Robert to not know. Now with BwB, it is all but confirmed for him)
• Arya suspects. During the Cersei-Gold cloak incident and Tansy's Peaches incident and a few more incidents which I forgot.
• Varys only paid double so Tobho Mott would take Gendry as an apprentice. With many probable theories about Varys being a Blackfyre (it is clear he's for the dragons, Targ or Blackfyre no matter), I think that the Blonde woman who is remembered by Gendry as his mother is a Targ/B.Fyre/dragonseed. Any ideas?

Stannis, Tobho Mott, and Varys have no idea where he is, and aren't likely to.  Brienne suspects, but no proof.  No idea about Thoros, but I doubt he actually knows anything; may suspect, though.  Arya suspects nothing.  She has no idea why the gold cloaks were after him, and made no real connection at t he peach.

[Orm]

4 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

, I think that the Blonde woman who is remembered by Gendry as his mother is a Targ/B.Fyre/dragonseed. Any ideas?

Now that you mention it............. Gendry's mum could have been Aerys's bastard daughter........ Here me out.....

 

We know that Aerys fancied Joanna Lannister..... I assume Joanna Lannister is a beautiful blonde as her daughter...... Aerys couldn't have her....... But we know he was always vain and petty...... So it would not be beneath him to sleep with a Joanna look alike....... Enter Gendry's hypothetical grandmum...... She had Gendry's mum from Aerys...... Which could hypothetically make Aerys Gendry's grandfather.....

Now Bob was as we all know quite the handsome philanderer......... Some day he sleeps with Gendry's mum...... And we all get our adorable wonder boy Gendry.....

 

Is it too much of a crack-pot???

[Orm]

On 6/24/2020 at 8:07 PM, zandru said:

As the dust begins to settle from the near-endless wars, people might be inclined to look back more skeptically on the whole Baratheon family.

• Robert truly was the Wastrel King, squandering the wealth of the Seven Kingdoms on having a good time, plus a war or so thrown in, and a weak, Lannister-led ruler.
• Joffrey "Baratheon" was a mini-Aerys II from his first day on the throne, and seemingly getting worse over time. Under his disastrous rule, the wars began people starved, the country was brutalized.
• Tommen "Baratheon" was even weaker than his wastrel "father", a child figurehead for his evil, deranged Lannister mother and her henchmen.
• Renly tore the kingdom in half by refusing to yield to his brother's better claim; good thing he died early. Admittedly, he had good fashion sense, but that was probably due to his being an Abomination.
• Stannis completed the work of devastating the kingdom through wars, defied, defiled, and threw down the Gods of the Seven Kingdoms that people had worshipped for thousands of years, and led tens of thousands of lawless Wildlings through the Wall and gave them land, so they could rape, steal and kill the good people of the Seven Kingdoms.

I think, should both Stannis and Shireen perish, the Baratheon name will be toxic. People will be glad that it's as dead as the Reynes, the Tarbecks, the Gardners. Someone new will take over Storm's End and establish a new House.

(I'd also like to see this with House Frey, but that's another story.)

Wasn't Robert beloved by the small-folk and his reign is looked fondly upon? His squandering of wealth of the crown(not the continent) was a fun time for everybody then just himself I would say............

Apart from that, Yeah the Baratheon name was dragged through the mud after his death.......

But by the end of ASOIAF, I see many houses being extinct...(Targaryen, Baratheon, Tully, Lannister, Arryn etc)

But I would really like to see the Boltons and Freys gone for good.....

[Orm]

On 6/27/2020 at 10:35 PM, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

The Baratheons will die out and deservedly so.  They took the kingdom from the family who built it and brought it to ruin.   Gendry will be the only one who might live.  He will figure how to make Valyrian Steel by sticking his iron sword into Arya's chest. 

 

Hmm....... Might as well say the Targs deserved and were due to be overthrown/die out for a long time for their Shenanigans.......

[R2D]

Why do you dislike Edric? He's just a kid.

Gendry can never become Lord of Storm's End. He's just a rando who wasn't even recognized by Robert.

[TheLastWolf]

4 minutes ago, R2D said:

Why do you dislike Edric?

I don't 

4 minutes ago, R2D said:

He's just a kid

You said it yourself. 

4 minutes ago, R2D said:

Gendry can never become Lord of Storm's End.

Biases and personal desires to be removed @R2DWhat does Edric know of the world when compared to what Gendry has experienced? Edric just worships his father. 

4 minutes ago, R2D said:

He's just a rando who wasn't even recognized by Robert.

Does not matter. Deeds will speak when the Others come marching. 

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

On 7/30/2020 at 3:44 PM, Orm said:

Hmm....... Might as well say the Targs deserved and were due to be overthrown/die out for a long time for their Shenanigans.......

The Targaryens built a kingdom.  The Baratheons, on the other hand, destroyed that kingdom through their incompetence.  And no, the Targaryens do not deserve to be overthrown.  Westeros was prosperous under Aerys.  More people died because of the Baratheons.  The War of the Five Kings is largely the fault of the Baratheons.   

[Orm]

17 minutes ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

The Targaryens built a kingdom.  The Baratheons, on the other hand, destroyed that kingdom through their incompetence.  And no, the Targaryens do not deserve to be overthrown.  Westeros was prosperous under Aerys.  More people died because of the Baratheons.  The War of the Five Kings is largely the fault of the Baratheons.   

Go read the books....

I don't want to go through all the disasters those inbred whack-jobs caused after usurping the crowns of all seven kingdoms and calling it "building"......

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

Just now, Orm said:

Go read the books....

I don't want to go through all the disasters those inbred whack-jobs caused after usurping the crowns of all seven kingdoms and calling it "building"......

Take your own advice and read the books, friend.  It only took the Baratheon losers a few years to screw up what the Targaryens built.  The Baratheons failed to pull through even one smooth succession.  The Baratheons are losers.

[Moiraine Sedai]

Robert and his brothers badly mismanaged Westeros. They inherited a full Treasury and bankrupted the kingdom in a few years.  

[Orm]

18 minutes ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

Take your own advice and read the books, friend.  It only took the Baratheon losers a few years to screw up what the Targaryens built.  The Baratheons failed to pull through even one smooth succession

So do want a reasonable discussion?.... Or do you want  gratification through venting nonsense out of a hate-boner for Baratheons and arse-licking for Targaryens, huh?

 

18 minutes ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

The Baratheons are losers.

Less than the Targs are....

[Lee-Sensei]

On 6/24/2020 at 4:39 AM, frenin said:

Likely no one, there must be a great line that ends by the end of the books and the Baratheons have all the odds to perish. While the blood will survive through Robert's many many bastards, the name will disappear. As it happened to the Durrandons.

I seriously doubt that. I don’t want Stannis and Shireen to die, but they probably are going to in the next book or two like they did in the show. However, Robert has a bunch of bastards running around. Most likely, one of them is probably going to be legitimized and rule from Storms End like on the show. Edric is the most likely choice, since he’s had an aristocrats education.

[Orm]

2 minutes ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

Robert and his brothers badly mismanaged Westeros. They inherited a full Treasury and bankrupted the kingdom in a few years.  

Well, how did the WOT5K manage itself, if the continent was bankrupt??

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

Just now, Orm said:

So do want a reasonable discussion?.... Or do you want to gratification through venting nonsense out of a hate-boner for Baratheons and arse-licking for Targaryens, huh?

 

No more than the Targs are....

The Baratheons are losers.  The Targaryens built and held Westeros for 300 years of unbroken rule.  The kingdom prospered most of that time and there were long periods of peace.  The Baratheons cannot make the same claim.

[Orm]

2 minutes ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

The Targaryens built and held Westeros for 300 years of unbroken rule

"Unbroken rule"

[Lee-Sensei]

On 6/27/2020 at 6:28 AM, TheLastWolf said:

@Bloodraven's Spider said,

Those who really deserve to end are the Boltons and the Freys..

And about Dany being sterile... 

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/157243-are-the-targaryens-not-as-godly-as-they-were-can-dany-bear-children-again/

 

The Bolton’s maybe, since Roose and Ramsay seem to be the only ones around. However, there are a lot of innocent Frey’s. Why do they deserve to be punished for the sins of their kin?