Covid-19 #15 : It Ain't Over Until It's Over

[Fez]

16 minutes ago, Ormond said:

Health care workers, grocery store workers, and other essential people who have to expose themselves to multiple strangers most days of the week should be the people they recruit for a trial as to the effectiveness of any vaccine. 

Agreed. I'm 32, live alone, my only pre-existing condition has been shown to have zero connection to COVID risk, and have Type O blood. I have a white collar job that I did from home even before all this, and other than pick-up packages and go for walks I haven't left my apartment since early March.

I'm unfortunately probably one of the last people that should get the vaccine. Though if Pfizer is right that they are planning on producing 100 million doses for the US by the end of this year, and 1.2 billion doses next year, then maybe I won't have that long of a wait. Assuming the phase 3 tests go well.

[Paladin of Ice]

9 hours ago, The Great Unwashed said:

So is there anyone here who is seriously considering becoming an early adopter of any coronavirus vaccine produced this year? 

 

With the way US regulations have been slashed, vaccines are being rushed through without seeing long-term potential consequences/harm, the recent history of pharma companies, and the way companies, including healthcare ones, have eagerly tried to suck money out of the government any way possible during this pandemic, (fuck you, Abbott, and the 48% false negative rate on your rapid test) my reaction can be summed up in two words: Fuck no!

I've been in the middle of all this shit from the start, I can wait a year or two to see what happens with the (likely) rushed vaccine before I offer myself up as a guinea pig.

[Zorral]

7 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

The only thing I know is that Venezuela ex-pats were flying back in droves as the situation in their host countries deteriorated.

I only know what the Venezuela watchers here know, who have been as much in isolation as we are -- and that's what you know, that those who went to Colombia etc. to get work, haven't gotten any, and are going back to where they at least have family and community networks. And this:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/jul/14/coronavirus-live-news-update-global-covid-19-cases-pass-13m-latest-updates?page=with:block-5f0e0cee8f08e16b6a1e723f#block-5f0e0cee8f08e16b6a1e723f

Plus the covid-19 international tracker --

https://www.google.com/search?q=Venezuela+covid-19+cases&oq=Venezuela+covid-19+cases&aqs=chrome..69i57.8751j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

One also tries to parse the slant of the stories on Venezuela, as with Cuba, because, the writers never dare to mention that shortages of food and medicines are due to the US insisting the rest of the world neither trade nor sell to these nations.

Just like the stories you read perhaps that said there was no lockdown.  Cuba closed the schools and shut down just like that! the moment it was seen they had to.  People observed the shut down with great cooperation -- which, though cooperation is culturally a large part of the population, going back to the parts of African from where their ancestors were kidnapped -- and then via the Russian state model, was still quite remarkable, because Cubans are equally, again, communal via cultural norms dating back to their ancestors' culture in their African communities, whether for work or raising families or just living.  Then, when there were no new cases, they called for a new and even more strict shut down, in order to actually eradicate the virus from the population.  That seems to have worked.  So you can see why reports out of the US or elsewhere -- particularly Florida -- would lie about this.

Masks and shutdowns are the only things that work.

 

[The Grey Wolf]

Me and both my brothers all tested negative.

[Wilbur]

1 hour ago, Paladin of Ice said:

With the way US regulations have been slashed, vaccines are being rushed through without seeing long-term potential consequences/harm, the recent history of pharma companies, and the way companies, including healthcare ones, have eagerly tried to suck money out of the government any way possible during this pandemic, (fuck you, Abbott, and the 48% false negative rate on your rapid test) my reaction can be summed up in two words: Fuck no!

I've been in the middle of all this shit from the start, I can wait a year or two to see what happens with the (likely) rushed vaccine before I offer myself up as a guinea pig.

Yeah, I wouldn't be first in the line for initial batch of these vaccines approved under the Trump administration.

[Zorral]

More on Masking:

 

[DaveSumm]

“Positive news” coming soon on Oxford vaccine.

Quote

I am hearing there will be positive news soon (perhaps tomorrow) on initial trials of the Oxford Covid-19 vaccine that is backed by AstraZeneca and supported by tens of millions of pounds of government money.

The first data is due be published in the Lancet.

Apparently the vaccine is generating the kind of antibody and T-cell (killer cell) response that the researchers would hope to see.

That said, the efficacy will only be properly established in the large phase III programme that is under way in the viral epicentre of Brazil, to deliver a large database that assesses safety as well as efficacy.

One source told me: “An important point to keep in mind is that there are two dimensions to the immune response: antibodies and T-cells..

“Everybody is focussed on antibodies but there is a growing body of evidence suggesting that the T-cells response is important in the defence against coronavirus.

As I understand, not all of the many vaccines under development across the world increase both antibodies and T-cells. But the Oxford vaccine looks as though it has this twin effect.

It remains relatively early days: No effective vaccine has ever been developed as rapidly as is being attempted for Covid-19. And there could still be disappointment and failure.

If the Oxford vaccine is proven effective, it could go into mass production as early as September.

 

[Fragile Bird]

48 minutes ago, The Grey Wolf said:

Me and both my brothers all tested negative.

Where are you?

[rotting sea cow]

2 hours ago, Zorral said:

Just like the stories you read perhaps that said there was no lockdown.  Cuba closed the schools and shut down just like that! the moment it was seen they had to.  People observed the shut down with great cooperation -- which, though cooperation is culturally a large part of the population, going back to the parts of African from where their ancestors were kidnapped -- and then via the Russian state model, was still quite remarkable, because Cubans are equally, again, communal via cultural norms dating back to their ancestors' culture in their African communities, whether for work or raising families or just living.  Then, when there were no new cases, they called for a new and even more strict shut down, in order to actually eradicate the virus from the population.  That seems to have worked.  So you can see why reports out of the US or elsewhere -- particularly Florida -- would lie about this.

Just to be clear. I read these stories from spanish-speaking media because even the most misguided media in latinoamerica are more accurate about our countries than english-speaking and specially american ones. I avoid reading american media unless strictly necessary.

 

2 hours ago, Zorral said:

Masks and shutdowns are the only things that work.

Uruguay hasn't locked down yet. Cases and deaths remain very very low. They closed schools and other business though.

[Ormond]

52 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Where are you?

Since I don't know if The Grey Wolf will see this before there is a new thread, I will point out to you that his profile says he's located in Richardson, Texas. That's a northern suburb of Dallas. 

[The Grey Wolf]

@Ormond

Thanks for explaining on my behalf.

[Fragile Bird]

56 minutes ago, The Grey Wolf said:

@Ormond

Thanks for explaining on my behalf.

I originally saw your post on my phone, and location info doesn't show up.  

[The Grey Wolf]

59 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

I originally saw your post on my phone, and location info doesn't show up.  

No worries!

[Zorral]

This one's over 400 comments.

New thread here:

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/157355-covid-19-16-not-waving-loop-de-looping/

 

[The Anti-Targ]

12 hours ago, Gorn said:

Here's the link to their official recommendation from April: https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/331693/WHO-2019-nCov-IPC_Masks-2020.3-eng.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

This wasn't updated until June 6th, and the possibility of pre-symptomatic or asymptomatic spread was completely ignored. Fox News and their kind were quoting WHO to push back against mask-wearing recommendations in late May. Here's some more direct quotes from high-ranking WHO officials:

 

Exactly, they never said masks were useless. Thanks for confirming my point.

And if you take other observations about places like Sweden where mask use is low, but social distancing (and I assume personal hygiene) is good then it possibly remains true that masks, while still being protective, are not necessary among a symptomless crowd where other social measures are being observed with to a high degree. It is probably true, though, that enforcing a mask mandate is easier than enforcing social distancing and hygiene, since you can easily see if someone is wearing a mask and you can tell them to piss off unless they put one on.

When you are in a high risk environment, like in a hospital, then PPE, including masks are absolutely essential.