Dead-honest question (and sorry if this has been asked before as this is my first topic in seven years): is Stannis in some way autistic or on the spectrum in any way? Any other characters like this?

[Goro]

I'm not trolling or anything.

People like Stannis Baratheon and even the High Sparrow have come off as being in some ways, well, neurodiverse for a lack of a better term. I'm a person with extreme OCD and maybe this is just me and wishful thinking, but Stannis is very much someone I wouldn't be surprised if he had a similar state-of-mind to what I have and not know it. Even when I read his chapters as a teenager, way back in the late 2000s, I was struck by how... different he was.  He's certainly not like most characters in the series. I find it hard to read Stannis's chapters and dialogue and not come to the conclusion that he's not some "normie" (pardon the language) but actually has... something.

Hey everyone, I'm technically new here as I had an account 7 or more years ago and then lost it so I'm still sort of getting used to this place. Glad to be with you all! I hope that we can have a pleasant discussion here!

[Aemon Darkbrother]

Could be nothing definitive just grrm taking inspiration from many neurodiverse traits. The whole black and white approach to life that Stannis takes as as well as his blunt nature could be attributed to those on the spectrum, for sure.

I will say that people often underestimate the degree to which George models the elements of his asoiaf stories and characters off of real world science. Genetics and how they manifest and are manipulated are some of George's favorite writing subjects. He's definitely a sci-fi guy though and through.

[Mordred]

Stannis is very inflexible.  Is he written as an OCD character?  I don't know.  The person who may be autistic is Patchface when it comes to what he is now.  Autism doesn't happen due to drowning but he behaves similar to someone with autism.  I have assisted in the care of two autistic boys in the past.  

[Goro]

3 minutes ago, Aemon Darkbrother said:

Could be nothing definitive just grrm taking inspiration from many neurodiverse traits. The whole black and white approach to life that Stannis takes as as well as his blunt nature could be attributed to those on the spectrum, for sure.

I will say that people often underestimate the degree to which George models the elements of his asoiaf stories and characters off of real world science. Genetics and how they manifest and are manipulated are some of George's favorite writing subjects. He's definitely a sci-fi guy though and through.

Yes, and I can certainly say that people like me with OCD are certainly said to have a more black-and-white view of the world as well as be pretty calculating, though I would argue that it's a bit more complicated than that. But yes, I agree with you. I think that it's hard not to look at someone like Stannis and say, "This guy is different from the norm." I would not surprise me if GRRM really was inspired by a bunch of neurodiverse traits in humanity, though I have to tell myself not to get too hopeful. It would be cool, but this series started in the 1990s, so I'm not sure if it would really stick.

[Curled Finger]

Were modern afflictions a thing thousands of years ago? 

[Goro]

8 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Were modern afflictions a thing thousands of years ago? 

Yes, absolutely.

[Mordred]

2 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Were modern afflictions a thing thousands of years ago? 

I am sure people who are different were around back then.  They were just not diagnosed as such.  They were seen as the eccentrics in fortunate cases.  

People with disturbing unbidden thoughts would have attracted attention.  Anxious would have been seen as the nervous types.  

[Goro]

18 minutes ago, Mordred said:

I am sure people who are different were around back then.  They were just not diagnosed as such.  They were seen as the eccentrics in fortunate cases.  

People with disturbing unbidden thoughts would have attracted attention.  Anxious would have been seen as the nervous types.  

We already know of several examples throughout history of people that have traits similar to neurodiverse peoples so it's all but given at this point.

[Lord Varys]

Living with an autistic person for nearly ten years now, I can say he doesn't fit the bill. The only 'autistic trait' he does seem to have is his bluntness and his complete disinterest in small talk or his inability to mince his words. The clear right or wrong thing is sort of there, but that doesn't carry very far considering Stannis is actually very hypocritical (publicly against whores, secretly fucking Mel), something that is very un-autistic.

He also understands and uses irony and sarcasm pretty effectively, also not a very common autistic trait. Also, there are no special interests, no fixed routines that we are aware of, etc.

Also, Stannis is pretty much a caricature of the sinister stoic type - George actually having him drink salted water in ACoK did really take it too far. He is not a character intentionally written as an autistic person.

The two actually autistic we seem to have gotten so far in the story are Archmaester Vaegon (who has more genuine autistic traits without showing any of the problems that come with the condition) and, in my opinion, King Aerys I (who we hopefully are going to meet in a later story). Possibly also Queen Jaehaera Targaryen, but we never got her personality in detail.

[Hodor the Articulate]

It's not for me or anyone else to tell you whether you should relate to a fictional character or not. If you connect with Stannis because of some of his character traits, more power to you. Personally, I'm uncomfortable with diagnosing characters when they're not written to represent an actual mental illness. It leads to reinforcing stereotypes and spreads misinformation.

[Goro]

5 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Living with an autistic person for nearly ten years now, I can say he doesn't fit the bill. The only 'autistic trait' he does seem to have is his bluntness and his complete disinterest in small talk or his inability to mince his words. The clear right or wrong thing is sort of there, but that doesn't carry very far considering Stannis is actually very hypocritical (publicly against whores, secretly fucking Mel), something that is very un-autistic.

He also understands and uses irony and sarcasm pretty effectively, also not a very common autistic trait. Also, there are no special interests, no fixed routines that we are aware of, etc.

Also, Stannis is pretty much a caricature of the sinister stoic type - George actually having him drink salted water in ACoK did really take it too far. He is not a character intentionally written as an autistic person.

The two actually autistic we seem to have gotten so far in the story are Archmaester Vaegon (who has more genuine autistic traits without showing any of the problems that come with the condition) and, in my opinion, King Aerys I (who we hopefully are going to meet in a later story). Possibly also Queen Jaehaera Targaryen, but we never got her personality in detail.

I'm not sure that having a physical relationship with Mel to further the cause is all that hypocritical.

Anyway, being on the spectrum myself, this guy pretty much fits the bill perfectly, especially his penchant for grinding his teeth when nervous, though that may be because he suffers from some form of PTSD.

[Alyn Oakenfist]

I'd say he's more garden variety PTSD and chronic depression. The chronic depression thing seems to be something he was probably born into, while the PTSD is deffo from the death of his parents and later Renly. Probably very similar to Aegon III. Both actually very intelligent and competent men, but very dark, almost always depressed and gloomy and with major social issues.

[Sigella]

I was actually thinking about this last night, so here’s my two pennies;

I think Stannis fits well with having Asberger (he is totally unflexible, socially inadeqate, and way too fixated on succession, chain of command etc).

I wouldnt say full autism thogh, if he was he would have other kinds of quirks, like wearing loose clothing, over-reacting when touched, being apart from reality).

 

I wouldn’t say OCD either because if he had it it would manifest in repetions, rituals, germophobia and thats stuff other characters would notice.

 

[Goro]

57 minutes ago, Sigella said:

I was actually thinking about this last night, so here’s my two pennies;

I think Stannis fits well with having Asberger (he is totally unflexible, socially inadeqate, and way too fixated on succession, chain of command etc).

I wouldnt say full autism thogh, if he was he would have other kinds of quirks, like wearing losse clothing, over-reacting when touched, being apart from reality).

 

I wouldn’t say OCD either because if he had it it would manifest in repetions, rituals, germophobia and thats stuff other characters would notice.

 

It's possible to have OCD and Asbergers like I do. And that may be why Stannis grinds his teeth constantly or even speaks so formally. Again, it's hard to take a read on Stannis. He's not one to smile or laugh except on rare occasions, although as @Alyn Oakenfist has said, this may be due to him having PTSD (losing his parents at a young age, surviving on nothing but boot leather and onions during the siege, etc.). Also, keep in mind: OCD features are typically internal (having mental rituals, for example) and the fact that he repeats certain things constantly may be an outward manifestation of it, though most OCD features are, again, internal.

[Alyn Oakenfist]

5 minutes ago, Goro said:

It's possible to have OCD and Asbergers like I do.

Sorry to hear that. Hope you can keep it under control

6 minutes ago, Goro said:

He's not one to smile or laugh except on rare occasions, although as @Alyn Oakenfist has said, this may be due to him having PTSD (losing his parents at a young age, surviving on nothing but boot leather and onions during the siege, etc.). Also, keep in mind: OCD features are typically internal (having mental rituals, for example) and the fact that he repeats certain things constantly may be an outward manifestation of it, though most OCD features are, again, internal.

I'd say the most important thing to remember is Aegon III. He seems to be Stannis round 2 electric boogaloo and we know fro a fact that his condition is a result of PTSD with shades of chronic depression resulting from said PTSD. In his case it was abandoning his brother to what he thought was his death by fleeing on his dying dragon and seeing his mother get eaten by a dragon. So it's fair to assume the same goes for Stannis.

[Goro]

1 hour ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Sorry to hear that. Hope you can keep it under control

I'd say the most important thing to remember is Aegon III. He seems to be Stannis round 2 electric boogaloo and we know fro a fact that his condition is a result of PTSD with shades of chronic depression resulting from said PTSD. In his case it was abandoning his brother to what he thought was his death by fleeing on his dying dragon and seeing his mother get eaten by a dragon. So it's fair to assume the same goes for Stannis.

It's fine and thank you. Life has basically improved for me lately, so in the mean time, I can't complain.

Aegon III is an interesting example and one that's more accurate, though I think that given how Stannis' childhood is described, he may have had some neurodiverse or OCD traits before his parents' death.

[Ygrain]

2 hours ago, Goro said:

 He's not one to smile or laugh except on rare occasions, although as @Alyn Oakenfist has said, this may be due to him having PTSD (losing his parents at a young age,

His inability to laugh predates the trauma, as per Steffon's letter when writing about Patchface:

"perhaps in time he will even teach Stannis how to laugh."

 

You might want to listen to the Radio Westeros episode on Stannis, they do a thorough job and arrive at the same conclusion as you: https://radiowesteros.com/2014/11/03/episode-07-stannis-a-just-man/

[Goro]

58 minutes ago, Ygrain said:

His inability to laugh predates the trauma, as per Steffon's letter when writing about Patchface:

"perhaps in time he will even teach Stannis how to laugh."

 

You might want to listen to the Radio Westeros episode on Stannis, they do a thorough job and arrive at the same conclusion as you: https://radiowesteros.com/2014/11/03/episode-07-stannis-a-just-man/

You mean they also believe Stannis to be neurodiverse?

I'll give a listen to the episode. Thank you!

[HoodedCrow]

Worked a lot with kids on the spectrum. Definitely agree with Lord Varys on this issue.

[GoldenGail3]

Nah fam, I’ve got autism meself but the man Stan ain’t austitic.