Dead-honest question (and sorry if this has been asked before as this is my first topic in seven years): is Stannis in some way autistic or on the spectrum in any way? Any other characters like this?

[Goro]

5 minutes ago, GoldenGail3 said:

Nah fam, I’ve got autism meself but the man Stan ain’t austitic. 

There are many different types of autism. And Stan may simply be neurodiverse in other ways. He definitely seems to have OCD, but maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part...

[Sigella]

4 hours ago, Goro said:

It's possible to have OCD and Asbergers like I do. And that may be why Stannis grinds his teeth constantly or even speaks so formally. Again, it's hard to take a read on Stannis. He's not one to smile or laugh except on rare occasions, although as @Alyn Oakenfist has said, this may be due to him having PTSD (losing his parents at a young age, surviving on nothing but boot leather and onions during the siege, etc.). Also, keep in mind: OCD features are typically internal (having mental rituals, for example) and the fact that he repeats certain things constantly may be an outward manifestation of it, though most OCD features are, again, internal.

Thanks you’ve taught me something new.

 

As Stannis isn’t a pov internal stuff gets tricky. I have a friend with an ocd-parent and from what I’ve been told being asked to run and check locked doors and that the stove is off was a big thing in that case, so if GRRM had OCD in mind for non-pov-Stannis, I’d argue that we’d find something about rituals or repetitions but since we don’t I dont think OCD was in the cards.

 

[Goro]

14 minutes ago, Sigella said:

Thanks you’ve taught me something new.

 

As Stannis isn’t a pov internal stuff gets tricky. I have a friend with an ocd-parent and from what I’ve been told being asked to run and check locked doors and that the stove is off was a big thing in that case, so if GRRM had OCD in mind for non-pov-Stannis, I’d argue that we’d find something about rituals or repetitions but since we don’t I dont think OCD was in the cards.

 

Most OCD from what I understand (and I'm no doctor so take this with a grain of salt), such as I mine, is mentally repetitive. As in, you have mental rituals as opposed to ones that you act out in real life. But that was for me. Really, I could be wrong and this could just be me hoping that Stannis is neurodiverse. He may be neurodiverse in other ways, but we really don't know since, as you say, we don't have a Stannis POV, as cool as that would be.

[One-eyed Misbehavin]

No not autistic perhaps a bit ocd (hard to tell with nobles sometimes bc they get what they want almost all the time) but stannis has middle child syndrome mixed with and inferiority complex regarding Robert.

Im so surprised no one has brought up proudwing which in my mind sums up stannis' character quite well

[Goro]

34 minutes ago, One-eyed Misbehavin said:

No not autistic perhaps a bit ocd (hard to tell with nobles sometimes bc they get what they want almost all the time) but stannis has middle child syndrome mixed with and inferiority complex regarding Robert.

Im so surprised no one has brought up proudwing which in my mind sums up stannis' character quite well

I think his antipathy towards Robert is kinda exaggerated. And I never really saw Stannis has having "middle child syndrome." I'm not even sure that exists, at least in the medical sense, though I don't think that necessarily matters in fantasy.

Disagree about the Proudwing episode summing up Stannis' character.

[One-eyed Misbehavin]

2 hours ago, Goro said:

I think his antipathy towards Robert is kinda exaggerated. And I never really saw Stannis has having "middle child syndrome." I'm not even sure that exists, at least in the medical sense, though I don't think that necessarily matters in fantasy.

Disagree about the Proudwing episode summing up Stannis' character.

When I was a lad I found an injured goshawk and nursed her back to health. Proudwing, I named her. She would perch on my shoulder and flutter from room to room after me and take food from my hand, but she would not soar. Time and again I would take her hawking, but she never flew higher than the treetops. Robert called her Weakwing. He owned a gyrfalcon named Thunderclap who never missed her strike. One day our great-uncle Ser Harbert told me to try a different bird. I was making a fool of myself with Proudwing, he said, and he was right." Stannis Baratheon turned away from the window, and the ghosts who moved upon the southern sea. "The Seven have never brought me so much as a sparrow. It is time I tried another hawk, Davos. A red hawk."

Neither bird nor man will stay down despite both being weakened. However neither were made to soar above all others. Merely do their duty. 

Stannis would't compare himself and his accomplishments to robert so much if he wasnt at least a touch jealous 

 normally middle child syndrome is a result of the perceived view of the parents so i might have missed the mark a bid on that however his treatment towards Renly combined with his attitude towards Robert is my reasoning behind my analysis 

[Goro]

8 minutes ago, One-eyed Misbehavin said:

When I was a lad I found an injured goshawk and nursed her back to health. Proudwing, I named her. She would perch on my shoulder and flutter from room to room after me and take food from my hand, but she would not soar. Time and again I would take her hawking, but she never flew higher than the treetops. Robert called her Weakwing. He owned a gyrfalcon named Thunderclap who never missed her strike. One day our great-uncle Ser Harbert told me to try a different bird. I was making a fool of myself with Proudwing, he said, and he was right." Stannis Baratheon turned away from the window, and the ghosts who moved upon the southern sea. "The Seven have never brought me so much as a sparrow. It is time I tried another hawk, Davos. A red hawk."

Neither bird nor man will stay down despite both being weakened. However neither were made to soar above all others. Merely do their duty. 

Stannis would't compare himself and his accomplishments to robert so much if he wasnt at least a touch jealous 

 normally middle child syndrome is a result of the perceived view of the parents so i might have missed the mark a bid on that however his treatment towards Renly combined with his attitude towards Robert is my reasoning behind my analysis 

Do you mean to say that Stannis is "proud?" Sorry, maybe I misread.

I think that story was just highlighting Stannis' natural unluckiness in life and I don't think that he's jealous so much as he thinks that Robert was genuinely a bad person for the throne but he's beholden to uphold his will and mete out justice anyways. It's just who he is. And his treatment towards Renly has to do with Renly being a genuinely bad person (IMHO).

[GoldenGail3]

10 hours ago, Goro said:

There are many different types of autism. And Stan may simply be neurodiverse in other ways. He definitely seems to have OCD, but maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part...

Yeah lol, he’s OCD about dem justice lol.

[Ygrain]

14 hours ago, Goro said:

You mean they also believe Stannis to be neurodiverse?

I'll give a listen to the episode. Thank you!

You're welcome.

It's been some time but I believe they listed some traits that seemed to point in that direction.

[Mordred]

On 6/24/2020 at 8:36 PM, Goro said:

We already know of several examples throughout history of people that have traits similar to neurodiverse peoples so it's all but given at this point.

There were people with uncommon neurological profiles in the middle ages.  The diagnosis were not available to them back then.  Stannis, if I had to pick something, could be narcissist.  Might even be a sociopath.  

[HoodedCrow]

Stannis seems traumatized by early tragedy, and bitter about his perceived lack of reward, upstaging by brothers, unpleasant wife, brutal society, wars, daughter with disease and no male heir. I’m not sure a diagnosis helps here, as George is not a clinical psychologist, but a case can be made.

[GoldenGail3]

22 hours ago, HoodedCrow said:

Stannis seems traumatized by early tragedy, and bitter about his perceived lack of reward, upstaging by brothers, unpleasant wife, brutal society, wars, daughter with disease and no male heir. I’m not sure a diagnosis helps here, as George is not a clinical psychologist, but a case can be made.

A unpleasant wise with a terribly weak house who doesn’t have much army to field anyhow.

[The Marquis de Leech]

I have a pet crackpot theory that Rhaegar had Aspergers.

[Castellan]

On 6/25/2020 at 9:12 AM, Goro said:

I'm not trolling or anything.

People like Stannis Baratheon and even the High Sparrow have come off as being in some ways, well, neurodiverse for a lack of a better term. I'm a person with extreme OCD and maybe this is just me and wishful thinking, but Stannis is very much someone I wouldn't be surprised if he had a similar state-of-mind to what I have and not know it. Even when I read his chapters as a teenager, way back in the late 2000s, I was struck by how... different he was.  He's certainly not like most characters in the series. I find it hard to read Stannis's chapters and dialogue and not come to the conclusion that he's not some "normie" (pardon the language) but actually has... something.

Hey everyone, I'm technically new here as I had an account 7 or more years ago and then lost it so I'm still sort of getting used to this place. Glad to be with you all! I hope that we can have a pleasant discussion here!

I always thought he was portrayed as somewhat autistic, since first read. 

[Sigella]

On 6/25/2020 at 8:03 PM, Goro said:

Most OCD from what I understand (and I'm no doctor so take this with a grain of salt), such as I mine, is mentally repetitive. As in, you have mental rituals as opposed to ones that you act out in real life. But that was for me. Really, I could be wrong and this could just be me hoping that Stannis is neurodiverse. He may be neurodiverse in other ways, but we really don't know since, as you say, we don't have a Stannis POV, as cool as that would be.

I just had a thought about Stannis constant teeth grinding. I've always seen it like an overt sign of Stannis is so tense he's about to break. It could be interpreted as a repetition/ritual. 

GRRM is fond of repetitions as well though; the teeth grinding could be unintentional like "pov fears a fat person will rupture from laughing" or juice running down peoples chins while eating.

[Universal Sword Donor]

On 6/25/2020 at 12:10 PM, GoldenGail3 said:

Nah fam, I’ve got autism meself but the man Stan ain’t austitic. 

I'm on the lower end of the spectrum and couldn't disagree more.

On 6/25/2020 at 1:53 AM, Goro said:

I'm not sure that having a physical relationship with Mel to further the cause is all that hypocritical.

Anyway, being on the spectrum myself, this guy pretty much fits the bill perfectly, especially his penchant for grinding his teeth when nervous, though that may be because he suffers from some form of PTSD.

It's insanely hypocritical* from where I'm sitting. He preaches fidelity (of all types) and then uses mel's body to advance his own interests. It might be a different type of whoring, but it's still whoring

* I'm using the assumption he's against whoring for moral stances, adultery among them

[GoldenGail3]

17 hours ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

I'm on the lower end of the spectrum and couldn't disagree more.

Well he’s not, I have Aspergers the thing people say he is and he’s 0% that. He’s socially awkward (not an incel though, the man is just socially awkward, nothing wrong with that). And what qualities does Stannis have that are austitic anyhow? He uses sarcasm, he understands humour, and he’s got none of the conditions qualifying him for autism. I’d know, I have it.

[HoodedCrow]

GoldenGail, I think people get confused because the diagnosis became much expanded.

Also, people get confused because neurologically atypical people may appear typical when using a keyboard!

Its a continuum with various genes affected, so it’s not a clear cut group, as you know.

At a stretch, some people I knew had a thing for chewing or biting and had a lot of muscle tension. I believe that stereotypies were preceded by conditioned efforts to reduce muscle tension, but that would be hard to prove. Most likely a lot of behaviors, as in typicals, started as an effort to relieve tension resulting from sensory overstimulation. I think Temple Grandins cow carcher/ hug machine had a similar function. 
 

How am I doing, good guesses or not:)

[Sigella]

3 hours ago, GoldenGail3 said:

Well he’s not, I have Aspergers the thing people say he is and he’s 0% that. He’s socially awkward (not an incel though, the man is just socially awkward, nothing wrong with that). And what qualities does Stannis have that are austitic anyhow? He uses sarcasm, he understands humour, and he’s got none of the conditions qualifying him for autism. I’d know, I have it.

I wouldn't ever call Stannis socially awkward though. There's a world of difference between insecurity (which might be a sign of ocd or social phobia) and disdain. Stannis isn't clumsy and nervous, he is blunt and indifferent as hell.

Being on the autism-spectrum can affect empathy and it isn't uncommon to seek self isolation rather than socialising either. All of which fits Stannis (who didn't laugh as a child, hates being touched, disdains socialising and prefers sitting on a roof for hours and hours in a blizzard to socialising a little with his followers) like hand in glove imo.

21 hours ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

It's insanely hypocritical* from where I'm sitting. He preaches fidelity (of all types) and then uses mel's body to advance his own interests. It might be a different type of whoring, but it's still whoring

* I'm using the assumption he's against whoring for moral stances, adultery among them

This is very interesting. The way I read it Stannis doesn't care for morality half as much as he does for principle and those are not based on piety or morality - his principles rests on law and honour because that's as close to piety or morality he is capable of being. I imagine what he did/does with Mel wasn't for lust or puppy love but rather for winning the IT because that's the law and honour demands it. In line with this I'm pretty sure he wouldn't sleep with anyone if he didn't have to, doesn't it say somewhere he'd shunned Selyses bed for years and before that he only fulfilled his husbandly duties as often as he had to?

[GoldenGail3]

3 hours ago, Sigella said:

I wouldn't ever call Stannis socially awkward though. There's a world of difference between insecurity (which might be a sign of ocd or social phobia) and disdain. Stannis isn't clumsy and nervous, he is blunt and indifferent as hell.

Being on the autism-spectrum can affect empathy and it isn't uncommon to seek self isolation rather than socialising either. All of which fits Stannis (who didn't laugh as a child, hates being touched, disdains socialising and prefers sitting on a roof for hours and hours in a blizzard to socialising a little with his followers) like hand in glove imo.

He was sitting on a Lighthouse, now wasn’t he? As for being hating to be touched, he didn’t mind Melisendre touching him (his wife is ugly and unpleasant to say the least, maybe this is why he didn’t like her touching him). I just don’t think the mans autsitic, I would greatly prefer if he wasn’t, so that I can read my fantasy without seeing my own problems in it. This being one of them.