Dead-honest question (and sorry if this has been asked before as this is my first topic in seven years): is Stannis in some way autistic or on the spectrum in any way? Any other characters like this?

[Sigella]

6 hours ago, GoldenGail3 said:

He was sitting on a Lighthouse, now wasn’t he? As for being hating to be touched, he didn’t mind Melisendre touching him (his wife is ugly and unpleasant to say the least, maybe this is why he didn’t like her touching him). I just don’t think the mans autsitic, I would greatly prefer if he wasn’t, so that I can read my fantasy without seeing my own problems in it. This being one of them.

You dont have to read it the same as me  

[GoldenGail3]

9 hours ago, Sigella said:

You dont have to read it the same as me  

I know, I’d prefer reading it without my shit in it. You do what you want to do for the record.

[Sigella]

18 minutes ago, GoldenGail3 said:

I know, I’d prefer reading it without my shit in it. You do what you want to do for the record.

Yeah, if we all read it the same this forum would be empty

If we didn’t appreciate each others views we wouldn’t be here.

[Universal Sword Donor]

On 7/6/2020 at 1:16 PM, GoldenGail3 said:

Well he’s not, I have Aspergers the thing people say he is and he’s 0% that. He’s socially awkward (not an incel though, the man is just socially awkward, nothing wrong with that). And what qualities does Stannis have that are austitic anyhow? He uses sarcasm, he understands humour, and he’s got none of the conditions qualifying him for autism. I’d know, I have it.

It's a huge spectrum, man. People can have it severely and not function, need extra help but are otherwise normal, or only a few specific traits  that manifest heavily but don't really inhibit them much (like me -- fixation on object / subject, hating certain food textures, really strong memory, et al). Just because he understands humor and uses sarcasm (as do I) doesn't mean he can't be autistic. I had a long, detailed post written out, but I closed the tab bc of course I did. Here are his symptoms as recognized by the Mayo Clinic:

• Can't start a conversation or keep one going, or only starts one to make requests or label items
• Inappropriately approaches a social interaction by being passive, aggressive or disruptive
• Resists cuddling and holding, and seems to prefer playing alone, retreating into his or her own world
  • See negotiation with Renly, his talk with Catelyn about Ned's head and how he wasn't a friend, and his general discomfort around women, retreats to DS and refuses to see anyone
• Performs repetitive movements, such as rocking, spinning or hand flapping
• Performs activities that could cause self-harm, such as biting or head-banging
  • Constant grinding of his teeth
• Has specific food preferences, such as eating only a few foods, or refusing foods with a certain texture
  • See lemon water
• Fixates on an object or activity with abnormal intensity or focus
  • See march on winterfell (stops eating), memorizing the military strength of every house in Westeros, obsessed with becoming king 

There's probably more examples I could give but it's not like there aren't concrete examples. And yeah there's plenty of evidence of him being functional but it's kind of hard to ignore the things that most people would consider atypical behavior and their alignment with autism symptoms. It's a fairly common question asked / connection made in the forums for a reason.

[Universal Sword Donor]

On 7/6/2020 at 5:35 PM, Sigella said:

This is very interesting. The way I read it Stannis doesn't care for morality half as much as he does for principle and those are not based on piety or morality - his principles rests on law and honour because that's as close to piety or morality he is capable of being. I imagine what he did/does with Mel wasn't for lust or puppy love but rather for winning the IT because that's the law and honour demands it. In line with this I'm pretty sure he wouldn't sleep with anyone if he didn't have to, doesn't it say somewhere he'd shunned Selyses bed for years and before that he only fulfilled his husbandly duties as often as he had to?

I don't necessarily disagree with you wrt Stannis and the Iron Throne. However he also wants it because he sees it as bringing respect (and power) that he feels he deserved and never got from Robert or the other nobles.

As to the morality aspect, when he talks of banning brothels it's not a matter of just adultery. Based on Ned's convo with Renly and LF, he just finds whores immoral. In either the case of a man with a prostitute or the case of Stannis with Mel, there's an exchange going on (money for sex or part of Stannis' soul / health (?) for a shadow baby to help him become king). 

[Sigella]

10 hours ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

I don't necessarily disagree with you wrt Stannis and the Iron Throne. However he also wants it because he sees it as bringing respect (and power) that he feels he deserved and never got from Robert or the other nobles.

As to the morality aspect, when he talks of banning brothels it's not a matter of just adultery. Based on Ned's convo with Renly and LF, he just finds whores immoral. In either the case of a man with a prostitute or the case of Stannis with Mel, there's an exchange going on (money for sex or part of Stannis' soul / health (?) for a shadow baby to help him become king). 

Imo its about honour (not honourable to shag outside of marriage), and him doing it with Mel is him being the prostitute and Mel the John who has to pay Stannis for it. This is far into what I think and not anything that actually has textual evidence though. Maybe because I think its super fun to imagine Stannis grinding his teeth over becoming a harlot for the IT  

Being better than Robert is so important, one could argue Stannis is against whoring just because Robert was a fan of it.

[Universal Sword Donor]

1 hour ago, Sigella said:

Imo its about honour (not honourable to shag outside of marriage), and him doing it with Mel is him being the prostitute and Mel the John who has to pay Stannis for it. This is far into what I think and not anything that actually has textual evidence though. Maybe because I think its super fun to imagine Stannis grinding his teeth over becoming a harlot for the IT  

Being better than Robert is so important, one could argue Stannis is against whoring just because Robert was a fan of it.

That is also very true

[Goro]

On 7/5/2020 at 8:48 PM, Universal Sword Donor said:

 

It's insanely hypocritical* from where I'm sitting. He preaches fidelity (of all types) and then uses mel's body to advance his own interests. It might be a different type of whoring, but it's still whoring

* I'm using the assumption he's against whoring for moral stances, adultery among them

They were two consenting partners though.

[Goro]

On 7/5/2020 at 4:48 PM, Sigella said:

I just had a thought about Stannis constant teeth grinding. I've always seen it like an overt sign of Stannis is so tense he's about to break. It could be interpreted as a repetition/ritual. 

GRRM is fond of repetitions as well though; the teeth grinding could be unintentional like "pov fears a fat person will rupture from laughing" or juice running down peoples chins while eating.

I always did suspect that GRRM might have some form of OCD.

[Goro]

On 7/1/2020 at 7:47 PM, Mordred said:

There were people with uncommon neurological profiles in the middle ages.  The diagnosis were not available to them back then.  Stannis, if I had to pick something, could be narcissist.  Might even be a sociopath.  

He's too moral to be a sociopath.

Edit: I just realized that I triple-posted. Sorry about this. Won't happen again.

[Sigella]

9 minutes ago, Goro said:

I always did suspect that GRRM might have some form of OCD.

There's actually a lot of repetitions, but it's pretty hard to say anything about it since we don't know if it comes from unintentional product of authors psyche or GRRM having decided its a common in-world saying.

"useful as nipples on a breastplate"

"dark wings dark words"

"Hodor" 

 

 

[Goro]

5 minutes ago, Sigella said:

There's actually a lot of repetitions, but it's pretty hard to say anything about it since we don't know if it comes from unintentional product of authors psyche or GRRM having decided its a common in-world saying.

"useful as nipples on a breastplate"

"dark wings dark words"

"Hodor" 

 

 

True enough. I'm not going to speculate more on GRRM's psyche. Regardless, I do suspect that Stannis's teeth-grinding could be either a result of PTSD or OCD. Either one is plausible.

[Sigella]

2 minutes ago, Goro said:

True enough. I'm not going to speculate more on GRRM's psyche. Regardless, I do suspect that Stannis's teeth-grinding could be either a result of PTSD or OCD. Either one is plausible.

I still lean towards aspberger or other autism, though. 

Ptsd has too much against it to be likely. He is rather the opposite imo; no nightmares, no flashbacks, no melt-downs or unnaturally high moods or panic-attacks.

[Universal Sword Donor]

1 hour ago, Goro said:

They were two consenting partners though.

Usually so are a prostitute and a john

[Goro]

1 minute ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Usually so are a prostitute and a john

But then so is all sex.

[Universal Sword Donor]

45 minutes ago, Goro said:

But then so is all sex.

The core concept is that Stannis traded something (his life essence?) to Mel for a tangible outcome from sex (Renly's men joining him) is identical to something that Stannis considers immoral, trading money for sex, when clearly most people in Westeros do not or tolerate it.

It's hypocritical of him to engage in something he's tried to ban for others and his justification makes it all the more hypocritical. 

[Goro]

2 hours ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

The core concept is that Stannis traded something (his life essence?) to Mel for a tangible outcome from sex (Renly's men joining him) is identical to something that Stannis considers immoral, trading money for sex, when clearly most people in Westeros do not or tolerate it.

It's hypocritical of him to engage in something he's tried to ban for others and his justification makes it all the more hypocritical. 

It's not really the same thing. Stannis had an obligation as military commander to beat Renly by what was given to him. I don't blame him for turning to what needed to be done at the time, especially if we're going by his vantage point. Also, he wasn't trading sex for money. And prostitution, I think, is immoral, at least as practiced in a feudalistic setting like Westeros.

[Universal Sword Donor]

1 hour ago, Goro said:

It's not really the same thing. Stannis had an obligation as military commander to beat Renly by what was given to him. I don't blame him for turning to what needed to be done at the time, especially if we're going by his vantage point. Also, he wasn't trading sex for money. And prostitution, I think, is immoral, at least as practiced in a feudalistic setting like Westeros.

What? Stannis had no reason to force an altercation. Certainly no need to force an altercation to then assassinate his brother by sleeping with a sorceress. 

If your morals / scruples are "I don't sell out except when I think I need to." you don't have morals or scruples. 

[Goro]

5 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

What? Stannis had no reason to force an altercation. Certainly no need to force an altercation to then assassinate his brother by sleeping with a sorceress. 

If your morals / scruples are "I don't sell out except when I think I need to." you don't have morals or scruples. 

But Renly was evil and didn't even have a claim to the throne.

[Universal Sword Donor]

1 minute ago, Goro said:

But Renly was evil and didn't even have a claim to the throne.

Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do and Renly took at least three left turns: When he turns away from Ned, when he leaves KL and when he leaves Highgarden. It's all science just gotta study it out