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The Great Unwashed

Police #4: When Will It Freaking End??

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Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, Bonnot OG said:

just a few bad apples yea?

 

youre a cop in the UK aren’t you?

 

So a cop sticking up for cops trying to run over people with a vehicle. But it’s just trigger happy ones that are the problem?
 

you sound like every other cop that fancies themselves a good one and sound even more ridiculous when there’s hours of footage of departments all over the us abusing people left and right. Pull your head out the sand.

It’s rich how you’re justifying cops hitting people with their vehicles yet have the audacity to say I sound ridiculous lol. 

 

You’re just proving how the issue stems far beyond just the trigger happy ones and that it is an international problem with police. 

You cant read. Never said a few bad apples. I've made it clear in this thread that I'm regularly disgusted by US police actions long before the current issues reared their head. However I'm not prepared to just accept a 5 second video clip as the whole picture. Nobody should unless they want to be lied to. 

My job involves outreach work in schools and diverts young people away from crime and CSE, gangs etc. We give talks on cyber safety to primary schools. Does that sound like a fucking stormtrooper? I've never once used my spray or baton in 20 years in 3 of the worst parts of london, I'm not trigger happy. Sometimes not everyone is an gun crazed lunatic. sometimes enforcing the law involves actual use of force. It can be legitimate from time to time

For the record, a grown adult typing out 'LOL' confirms you as ridiculous. 

Edited by BigFatCoward

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Jeez, I hope that SUV has a quick recovery at the car hospital and can get back to it's worried car family soon. Car lives matter.

/S

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1 hour ago, BigFatCoward said:

diverts young people away from crime

A little bit of crime is okay though, right? So long as you're not hurting others.

I mean I'm not saying be Alex or anything, but just a bit of fun?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

A little bit of crime is okay though, right? So long as you're not hurting others.

I mean I'm not saying be Alex or anything, but just a bit of fun?

"Just a little bit of fun" will get you very different results in the US depending on who you are.   For suburban white kids it ends in a slap on the wrist, community service, or police looking the other way; for POC it's more phone calls to the police about "suspicious" behavior, and then "a little bit" of police brutality, high cash bail, and incarceration in the prison-industrial complex.

Edited by larrytheimp

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10 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:

"Just a little bit of fun" will get you very different results in the US depending on who you are.   For suburban white kids it ends in a slap on the wrist, community service, or police looking the other way; for POC it's more phone calls to the police about "suspicious" behavior, and then "a little bit" of police brutality, high cash bail, and incarceration in the prison-industrial complex.

Its It's the same but not quite as extreme here, and I'd imagine a lot of western europe. I've always said sentences should be based on an anonymised number assigned to case where person deciding doesn't know anything other than the facts. Would help in trials but it would be an easy fix to make a small difference in sentencing disparity. 

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28 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:

"Just a little bit of fun" will get you very different results in the US depending on who you are.   For suburban white kids it ends in a slap on the wrist, community service, or police looking the other way; for POC it's more phone calls to the police about "suspicious" behavior, and then "a little bit" of police brutality, high cash bail, and incarceration in the prison-industrial complex.

If you're a Stanford athlete, that 5 minutes of fun just gets you a few months probation. 

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17 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:

"Just a little bit of fun" will get you very different results in the US depending on who you are.   For suburban white kids it ends in a slap on the wrist, community service, or police looking the other way; for POC it's more phone calls to the police about "suspicious" behavior, and then "a little bit" of police brutality, high cash bail, and incarceration in the prison-industrial complex.

Yeah, but can't I dream of a world in which the police look the other way now and again for everyone? Most of our bad behavior, assuming it's not violent, should more just get a talking to than met with violence.

I mean, is being a 12 year old kid in a park playing with a toy gun a big deal? Or selling a small amount of drugs to a friend? Or maybe using a fake $20 bill? Are these the things people need to die over?

Especially when I did so much worse and never had anything done to me. I understand privilege Larry. I want others to enjoy the same thing, not horde and hide something. I know those types well. They disgust me. 

20 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

Its It's the same but not quite as extreme here, and I'd imagine a lot of western europe. I've always said sentences should be based on an anonymised number assigned to case where person deciding doesn't know anything other than the facts. Would help in trials but it would be an easy fix to make a small difference in sentencing disparity. 

Same idea might be wise for resume applications, given the obvious racist and sexist hiring practices at a lot of places.

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11 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

 

Same idea might be wise for resume applications, given the obvious racist and sexist hiring practices at a lot of places.

Unless there is a specific reason where someone has to see your face (interview maybe, but I dont get why that couldn't be an audio interview) then everything should be anonymised. My letting agent definitely displayed a few racial tics last time my flat was being rented out. 

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6 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

Unless there is a specific reason where someone has to see your face (interview maybe, but I dont get why that couldn't be an audio interview) then everything should be anonymised. My letting agent definitely displayed a few racial tics last time my flat was being rented out. 

Well that may be too much of an over-correction. It's good to look someone in the face. Just find a way for gender and ethnicity to not act as initial barriers. 

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1 hour ago, Kalbear said:

If you're a Stanford athlete, that 5 minutes of fun just gets you a few months probation. 

Wasn’t it 20 minutes, according to his own dad?

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8 hours ago, The Great Unwashed said:

Let's be clear here about the use of public streets for protests.

Blocking public rights-of-way was a tactic used by the civil rights movement.

Blocking rights-of-way is a long-standing form of civil disobedience designed to call greater attention to the protests by blocking transportation. It also tends to put into perspective the unnecessary and brutal tactics  used by police to clear them.

 

To be honest, it seems like everyone is getting what they wanted here? 

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18 minutes ago, Galactus said:

 

To be honest, it seems like everyone is getting what they wanted here? 

Well...I'd dispute the characterization that protesters "want" to be tear-gassed or run over by cars, but to the extent those things happen and illustrate exactly what the protesters are saying, then yes, I suppose.

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14 hours ago, The Great Unwashed said:

Here's a NYT video describing the deliberate escalation by tear gassing peaceful protesters by Philadelphia police.

 

I highly suggest everyone watch that video. It's so deliberately egregious that the city of Philadelphia has indefinitely banned the use of tear gas.

Should be noted that this is something that's happened a few times, whether via the city or via a court order, and the police have basically just ignored it most of the time. I can't recall if that's true of Philly, mostly because there are so many example it's hard to keep track, but I think it is.

Also the fifth link you posted isn't working, just redirects back to this forum.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Galactus said:

 

To be honest, it seems like everyone is getting what they wanted here? 

A point I raised earlier.  

@The Great Unwashed

Reading the WaPo article, can't help but note that "blocking" public right of way is actually explicitly said to have not been a civil rights movement tactic. From TFA:

Quote

If anything is new, what's different today may be the occupation of urban interstates for the purpose of bringing them to a standstill. Protesters in Selma, Moss argues, wanted to use the Edmund Pettus Bridge — on their way to Montgomery — not block it.

 

Reed, who angered many activists with his comments in Atlanta, later defended them on Facebook by saying that King prepared for weeks and worked with Selma officials to ensure public safety, rather than flooding the bridge in a spontaneous and "dangerous" way.

 

Edited by Ran

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I mean, it's fairly plain from King's Letter from Birmingham that impeding police cars was not part of King's strategy, at all.  He was trying to persuade the white moderates he was so disappointed in, not shame them by..I dunno, getting run over and going to the hospital?  I think there's a good point here that impeding traffic - even without a permit - is a legitimate aspect of civil disobedience.  That most certainly has been the case in many protests throughout the country the past month, not to mention many times before it.  But that should not be conflated with impeding a police car that was trying to leave.  That's looking to go viral, not being a freedom fighter. 

If a cop is leaving your protest, that should be a good thing right?  Why would you want to stop that?  You don't impede cops when they just want to leave.  Acting like this this is a double standard in favor of the cops is ludicrous.  If the protesters are impeding the cop's - or any citizen's - right to leave, that's on them.  I'm sorry.  Stop acting like this is  the same because at least from what we've seen it's clearly not.  If he wasn't a cop, it'd be described as a mob preventing the guy from moving forward then assaulting his vehicle as he drove away.  Fuck the police, sure.  But if they want to leave - let them!  Unless you're just looking to get self-righteous on the internet.  

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22 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

I'm not talking about the one in Detroit here, the one where the cleared the crowd so that a vehicle got through. You think there was something sinister or untoward about that? 

The NYPD van video, yeah.

I understand what you're saying but I do find something in that video untoward, yes.  It looked like police pushing people around because they can.  My comment was actually more about perception.  People don't want more excuses...we've heard them already.  I will agree with you that that particular incident seemed much tamer than some others but I will add that was likely luck.  

Sinister might be a bit strong unless we count the whole I AM COP YOU OBEY attitude as sinister. 

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Posted (edited)

It's astounding how much benefit of the doubt is being given to a cop who drove into fucking protesters. But the protesters are the fucking problem apparently.

Nothing about how cops do things like deliberately drive into protests as a provocation tactic? What about when they pepper sprayed a fucking 9 year old? How many people have been blinded by those fucking rubber bullets they've been firing indiscriminately during the past month? Why are the fucking protesters the ones being expected to de-escalate things when the fucking cops are trying to escalate them? 

The fact that cops are being given the benefit of the doubt and protesters aren't is bullshit. 

Guess the new hashtag is NotAllCops? BelieveAllCops?

Edited by The Great Unwashed

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Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

I'm sorry, I didn't know that kids getting tear-gassed, journalists being blinded, or people getting run over by cops was funny.

Well to use the argument he made earlier.

The protesters have chosen to put themselves in harm's way through their particular disruption tactic, namely gathering anywhere near the police. To me, this suggests we should not be shocked or especially upset that the natural consequence of doing literally anything the police don't like has played out.

Similarly I guess we shouldn't be shocked or upset about the natural consequences of a human being existing as a black person around the police. So why all the fuss around George Floyd and all the other people the police has murdered over the years?

ETA: You know, this is a very convenient argument, I love how it means I can shrug off literally all human suffering if that suffering was at all foreseeable.

Edited by TrueMetis

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Yeah, i really don't understand the arguments made here defending police hitting protesters with vehicles.  It's a despicable practice that is no NO WAY justified.

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