Jump to content
The Great Unwashed

Police #4: When Will It Freaking End??

Recommended Posts

25 minutes ago, Relic said:

Yeah, i really don't understand the arguments made here defending police hitting protesters with vehicles.  It's a despicable practice that is no NO WAY justified.

If a violent angry mob surrounded you in your car would you use your vehicle to protect yourself?

Notwithstanding the fact that most agree that the US police have been disgraceful over the last month (in particular), are you really going to say based on that 5 second clip, which didn't show any build up to the incident, that a reasonable person wouldn't drive out of danger in similar circumstances? Are you so blinded by your prejudices that you cant see that occasionally even US police arent entirely to blame and just maybe, maybe the protesters go a bit too far?  Is attacking police in their car if they are on routine duties ok? 

If further evidence comes to light that the police deliberately drove into an area where the protestors were peaceful, causing no problems and then began ramming the protestors I'm willing to change my mind. 

Is there anything you could see that would change yours or have you committed so fully to the 'all cops are bastards' that they must always be in the wrong no matter what? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Relic said:

Yeah, i really don't understand the arguments made here defending police hitting protesters with vehicles.  It's a despicable practice that is no NO WAY justified.

Take the police car out of the equation and imagine if some regular citizen had wandered up on to an unofficial protest, were slowly moving through as people made way ... until some people decided not to make way, threw themselves on the hood of her car as others surrounded it, tried to force her to stop, and bashed her car's rear window in.

There's literally no court in the land who would find the person who drove out of that situation guilty of a crime, and rightly so.

The only people hit in the Detroit situation were those who deliberately attempted to use their bodies to stop that car. Reckless behavior is not something I support.

 

@TrueMetis

That's bullshit and I think you know it, but it's why I'm mostly laughing at you and others who are wrapped up in bullshit ACAB culture and have allowed it to hijack objectivity.

Protesters peacefully protesting when police use riot control on them is obviously an issue when there's no fucking riot. They have my sympathy and support.

A police officer kneeling on a man's neck for more than 8 minutes is obviously an issue when the man was already detained and arrested. That officer's a criminal and those who are trying to use this tragedy to change things for the better have my support.

People laughing while draping themselves on moving vehicles and then angry when that vehicle tries to get out from being surrounded, encourage others to jump in front of it to try and stop it, and smash out its window are misguided, reckless, and I hope they wise up before they get themselves or others killed.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ran said:

Take the police car out of the equation and imagine if some regular citizen had wandered up on to an unofficial protest, were slowly moving through as people made way ... until some people decided not to make way, threw themselves on the hood of her car as others surrounded it, tried to force her to stop, and bashed her car's rear window in.

There's literally no court in the land who would find the person who drove out of that situation guilty of a crime, and rightly so.

The only people hit in the Detroit situation were those who deliberately attempted to use their bodies to stop that car. Reckless behavior is not something I support.

 

 

One of the fundamental differences here in the optics. First of all police are not regular citizens. They are public servants who have sparked protests due to their complete inability to understand the "servant" part of their job descriptions.  Police using brutal force as a means of oppression is why there are protesters out in the streets in the first place. You'd think that cops would be on their BEST behavior, but no, they are doubling down. So fuck them. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, Ran said:

Take the police car out of the equation and imagine if some regular citizen had wandered up on to an unofficial protest, were slowly moving through as people made way ... until some people decided not to make way, threw themselves on the hood of her car as others surrounded it, tried to force her to stop, and bashed her car's rear window in.

Okay first, cops don't get to react the same as everybody else so no do not take the police car out of the equation.

Second, did we watch the same video? No one threw themselves onto the hood of the car, somebody didn't move as the car was slowly rolling forward and leaned on the car, and other ended up on the hood because the cop ran into them. There was no throwing themselves onto the hood of the car there was climbing onto it as people desperately tried not to get run over.

And seriously, where's this "bashed her car's rear window in" bit coming from? That's not in the video. Rear car windows are made of safety glass, had it been "bashed in" the entire thing would have shattered.

Stop making shit up to justify police violence.

Quote

@TrueMetis

That's bullshit and I think you know it, but it's why I'm mostly laughing at you and others who are wrapped up in bullshit ACAB culture and have allowed it to hijack objectivity.

Protesters peacefully protesting when police use riot control on them is obviously an issue when there's no fucking riot. They have my sympathy and support.

A police officer kneeling on a man's neck for more than 8 minutes is obviously an issue when the man was already detained and arrested. That officer's a criminal and those who are trying to use this tragedy to change things for the better have my support.

People laughing while draping themselves on moving vehicles and then angry when that vehicle tries to get out from being surrounded, encourage others to jump in front of it to try and stop it, and smash out its window are misguided, reckless, and I hope they wise up before they get themselves or others killed.

It's not bullshit, it's a continuing pattern of police using excessive force and their cheerleaders trying to justify it. What your doing here is no different from any of the other shit people do to defend the cops. Here it's "shouldn't have stood in the road, shouldn't have "thrown" yourself onto their car, shouldn't have "bashed" in their car windows"

In other cases it "should have listened to the polices commands, shouldn't have "attacked" the police, shouldn't have "got in their way""

It's always the same bullshit, some "reasonable" criticism, combined with a bunch of made up bullshit.

Oh and as for "allowing it to hijack objectivity" this isn't a fucking science experiment, am I biased? Fuck yeah I am and I'm not going to pretend otherwise. The cops have their advocates, they've got the entire fucking state power apparatus on their side, they literally have rules in place to prevent them from being held responsible, and they've got all their little internet cheerleaders who excuse their actions and make shit up to justify what they do.

So fuck "objectivity" the cops have had decades, centuries, of getting the benefit of the doubt, of people assuming they're in the right always. And they don't deserve it, and they don't deserve for us to withhold judgement. They are given literal power over life and death, so in all cases until I'm proven otherwise, I'm going to assume they are in the wrong. Don't like it? Go ahead and cry about it, I don't care.

Edited by TrueMetis

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Genuine question (hopefully to push discussion into different way):

cops in the car - what they should have done in this situation? What was their optimal course of action?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

1 hour ago, Relic said:

You'd think that cops would be on their BEST behavior

I rather think they were on their best behavior. They made repeated attempts to remove themselves from the situation without harming anyone. The only people injured were the ones who repeatedly jumped on the car's hood every time they stopped. What are they supposed to do instead? Get out of their cars, weapons drawn, and arrest people in the middle of a crowd? 

The people looking for a confrontation were the protesters.

1 hour ago, Relic said:

, but no, they are doubling down.

No they aren't.

1 hour ago, Relic said:

 

So fuck them. 

Very constructive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, TrueMetis said:

Don't like it? Go ahead and cry about it, I don't care.

Or laugh about it, cuz this is all soooo funny /s ( and those emojis are some passive/agressive bs). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, Ran said:

 What are they supposed to do instead? 

Leave the car, go home, write retirement letters, and find jobs in the food service industry. 

 

Or any combination of anything that involves not injuring protesting civilians. 

Edited by Relic

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, Relic said:

Leave the car, go home, write retirement letters, and find jobs in the food service industry. 

 

Or any combination of anything that involves not injuring protesting civilians. 

They might have been protesting civilians at one point. By the time they were around that car they were an angry, out of control and violent mob.

Just get out of the car and get beaten up? Or do you think that those protestors were going to let them go on their merry way? 

Edited by BigFatCoward

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

They might have been protesting civilians at one point. By the time they were around that car they were an angry, out of control and violent mob.

Just get out of the car and get beaten up? Or do you think that those protestors were going to let them go on their merry way? 

Yes, I do thnk they would have done so, because there has not been a single act of violence against police instigated by protestors so far.

There have been many documented cases of police causing unprovoked violence. There have been NONE against police - police have always started it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's amazing how you can be a violent mob without actually doing anything violent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

You didn't think the way they surrounded that car was violent and aggressive?  You think you would be able to guarantee those officers safety had they got out of the vehicle? Then we are so far apart that it's pointless having discussions. 

Edited by BigFatCoward

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Yes, I do thnk they would have done so, because there has not been a single act of violence against police instigated by protestors so far.

There have been many documented cases of police causing unprovoked violence. There have been NONE against police - police have always started it. 

Hell. The only police deaths I can recall that stem from the protests have been from the boogaloo boy trying to take advantage of the situation. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-06-16/suspects-charged-killing-santa-cruz-cop-and-oakland-federal-officer%3f_amp=true

Edited by A True Kaniggit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, BigFatCoward said:

You didn't think the way they surrounded that car was violent and aggressive? Then we are so far apart that it's pointless having discussions. 

I think it was aggressive. I also think that it was absolutely provoked by the police, and again - there have been NO protester-instigated attacks. 

Put it another way - if someone drives a car into your protest, given what we know about Charlottesville and other cars driving into protesters has been used to murder people - why would you consider that not an act of violent attack?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cops use violence to break up protests against police violence and we're hearing the "not all cops are bastards" refrain.  

 

LOL!!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

You didn't think the way they surrounded that car was violent and aggressive?  You think you would be able to guarantee those officers safety had they got out of the vehicle? Then we are so far apart that it's pointless having discussions. 

No it was not violent, and "aggressive" is pretty fucking meaningless. Retail workers deal with people who are aggressive every fucking day without doing the kind of shit cops do in response. (and tbh they'd have far more cause to do so)

We are very far apart, I cannot imagine living with the level of fear you apparently do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

I think it was aggressive. I also think that it was absolutely provoked by the police, and again - there have been NO protester-instigated attacks. 

Put it another way - if someone drives a car into your protest, given what we know about Charlottesville and other cars driving into protesters has been used to murder people - why would you consider that not an act of violent attack?

And that is why I have a problem with the video starting where it does and everyone assuming it was the police to blame. Let's be honest there is a fucking good chance the police fucked up in this case, but we dont know, we just dont know.  And we dont know who those officers are. There must be close to 1 million law enforcement officers in the US, you cant tell me you think every single one is racist/incompetent. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, TrueMetis said:

No it was not violent, and "aggressive" is pretty fucking meaningless. Retail workers deal with people who are aggressive every fucking day without doing the kind of shit cops do in response. (and tbh they'd have far more cause to do so)

We are very far apart, I cannot imagine living with the level of fear you apparently do.

That was violent and aggressive, it may be partially justified based on historic police behaviour, but the officers having reasonable fear for their safety is legit in those circumstances.

Your last remark makes you sound like a child and someone who has probably never dealt with a conflict situation in their life. Fear is based on training and circumstances, damn fucking straight if me and one other officer are surrounded by 30 aggressive people I'm fucking scared. 

Edited by BigFatCoward

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

And that is why I have a problem with the video starting where it does and everyone assuming it was the police to blame. Let's be honest there is a fucking good chance the police fucked up in this case, but we dont know, we just dont know.  And we dont know who those officers are. There must be close to 1 million law enforcement officers in the US, you cant tell me you think every single one is racist/incompetent. 

I don't think they're all incompetent.

But I do think that when you see a police car in a protest driving through them, right now the burden of proof on the 'fuck up/not fuck up' scale is decidedly on the 'fuck up' part for the police. Because again - no violence from protesters, lots and lots of violence from police. 

The US police have long gone past the point of getting the benefit of the doubt. If the police want the benefit of the doubt, they need to be reporting their own team and kicking the bad ones out. Since they're not, they don't get the benefit of that doubt, as their entire organization is suspect. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...