TheLastWolf Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 WESTEROS - ENGLAND (incl Wales and Scotland ) ESSOS - EASTERN EUROPE(WHAT WE SEE ATLEAST) YI TI - CHINA ASSHAI-BY-THE-SHADOW - INDIA/JAPAN SLAVER'S BAY - MEDITTERANEAN SEA VALYRIA - ROME (with the Doom being the eruption of Mt. Vesuvius at Pompeii) GHISCARI CITIES - GREEK EMPIRE (with Crete as the Isle of Cedars ) supporting point : TOKARS are similair to TOGAS SUMMER ISLES - AFRICAN ISLANDS ??? not sure QARTH - INDIA/JAPAN SUNSET SEA - ATLANTIC SEA with the unknown land as NORTH AMERICA LANDS OF ALWAYS WINTER - ARCTIC AND NORTH POLE. IBBEN - RUSSIA/UKRAINE OR MURMANSK any more??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loose Bolt Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 Neck - Karelian Isthmus KI is major reason why Finland is independent country and member of EU instead of being part of huge eastern empire. There is even a possibility that without that other Nordic Countries would not existed either but all of those would have been over run by either Imperial Russia or Soviet Union. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goro Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 Dorne is analogous to Moorish Spain, which is kinda an obvious one. Also, the Summer Isles seem analogous to the Caribbean of all places and the maroon cultures that existed there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastWolf Posted June 25, 2020 Author Share Posted June 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Goro said: Summer Isles seem analogous to the Caribbean of all places But the Caribbean is on the other side of the Sunset Sea (Atlantic) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goro Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 10 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said: But the Caribbean is on the other side of the Sunset Sea (Atlantic) I don't think it matters given that this is a fantasy world at the end of the day and that Martin can do whatever he wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss_Saffron Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 49 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said: But the Caribbean is on the other side of the Sunset Sea (Atlantic) True. But the southernmost part of Britain isn't moorish spain either. Not to mention, that Ancient Greece and Medieval/Reneissanse Europe (besides British influences, Westeros has also some shades of French and Nordic culture as well) were separated by centuries not just miles. And yet the Seven Kingdoms and New Ghis are contemporaries in Martin's world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goro Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 24 minutes ago, Miss_Saffron said: True. But the southernmost part of Britain isn't moorish spain either. Not to mention, that Ancient Greece and Medieval/Reneissanse Europe (besides British influences, Westeros has also some shades of French and Nordic culture as well) were separated by centuries not just miles. And yet the Seven Kingdoms and New Ghis are contemporaries in Martin's world. Yes, it's not exactly a solid fit with the analogues and their real-world counterparts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Raventree Hall Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 6 hours ago, TheLastWolf said: WESTEROS - ENGLAND (incl Wales and Scotland ) ESSOS - EASTERN EUROPE(WHAT WE SEE ATLEAST) YI TI - CHINA ASSHAI-BY-THE-SHADOW - INDIA/JAPAN SLAVER'S BAY - MEDITTERANEAN SEA VALYRIA - ROME (with the Doom being the eruption of Mt. Vesuvius at Pompeii) GHISCARI CITIES - GREEK EMPIRE (with Crete as the Isle of Cedars ) supporting point : TOKARS are similair to TOGAS SUMMER ISLES - AFRICAN ISLANDS ??? not sure QARTH - INDIA/JAPAN SUNSET SEA - ATLANTIC SEA with the unknown land as NORTH AMERICA LANDS OF ALWAYS WINTER - ARCTIC AND NORTH POLE. any more??? Why do you have India and Japan together twice? I don't think Asshai is supposed to mirror any real world place. I've read that Qarth took some inspiration from Constantinople or Carthage. An additional one I would add I guess would be the easy one of the Dothraki being inspired by various Steppe cultures. The part where Khal Drogo drops the golden "crown" on Viserys is ripped straight from a real event where Ghengis Khan poured silver on Inalchuq (a governor of the Khwarazmian Empire. Note : I actually think the description of the Dothraki culture and people's was GRRM's biggest failure, as ...for example, the Mongols wore armor. They were always outnumbered...as living a nomadic lifestyle is not one that leads to high infant survivability nor sustainable population growth, and simply won battles because they were...better at battling than anybody else. Even before Ghengis Khan though, the Mongols were wearing armor and had excellent battlefield tactics. I think GRRM's descriptions were unfortunately based on racist European historians descriptions of Steppe culture and peoples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldarion Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 6 hours ago, TheLastWolf said: WESTEROS - ENGLAND (incl Wales and Scotland ) ESSOS - EASTERN EUROPE(WHAT WE SEE ATLEAST) YI TI - CHINA ASSHAI-BY-THE-SHADOW - INDIA/JAPAN SLAVER'S BAY - MEDITTERANEAN SEA VALYRIA - ROME (with the Doom being the eruption of Mt. Vesuvius at Pompeii) GHISCARI CITIES - GREEK EMPIRE (with Crete as the Isle of Cedars ) supporting point : TOKARS are similair to TOGAS SUMMER ISLES - AFRICAN ISLANDS ??? not sure QARTH - INDIA/JAPAN SUNSET SEA - ATLANTIC SEA with the unknown land as NORTH AMERICA LANDS OF ALWAYS WINTER - ARCTIC AND NORTH POLE. any more??? Actually... Westeros - Europe if it were Britain North = Scotland + Russia Riverlands = Germany Westerlands = England Reach = France Dorne = Spain Iron Islands = Scandinavia Vale = Switzerland Stormlands = Austria??? Crownlands = Papal States??? Beyond the Neck = Arctic Essos Narrow Sea = Renaissance Mediterranean Braavos = Venice Tyrosh = Tyre Volantis = Constantinople Qohor, Norvos = Milan Great Norvos = Veliky Novgorod Slaver's Bay = Ancient Mediterranean / Aegean Sea Valyria = Rome Old Ghis = Carthage Astapor Yunkai Mereen Dothraki = Mongols Vaes Dothrak = Karakhorum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 Asshai would be whatever is the worlds most polluted city. Right now I think thats New Delhi. Asshai is defined by its nuclear winter like conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goro Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said: Why do you have India and Japan together twice? I don't think Asshai is supposed to mirror any real world place. I've read that Qarth took some inspiration from Constantinople or Carthage. An additional one I would add I guess would be the easy one of the Dothraki being inspired by various Steppe cultures. The part where Khal Drogo drops the golden "crown" on Viserys is ripped straight from a real event where Ghengis Khan poured silver on Inalchuq (a governor of the Khwarazmian Empire. Note : I actually think the description of the Dothraki culture and people's was GRRM's biggest failure, as ...for example, the Mongols wore armor. They were always outnumbered...as living a nomadic lifestyle is not one that leads to high infant survivability nor sustainable population growth, and simply won battles because they were...better at battling than anybody else. Even before Ghengis Khan though, the Mongols were wearing armor and had excellent battlefield tactics. I think GRRM's descriptions were unfortunately based on racist European historians descriptions of Steppe culture and peoples. The Dothraki are probably the biggest failure of Martin's writing, along with the "Slave Cities," which are pretty one-note. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastWolf Posted June 26, 2020 Author Share Posted June 26, 2020 16 hours ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said: Why do you have India and Japan together twice? because I thought that one of those 2 would be Asshai and the other Qarth. Remember that India was one of the richest countries till the Europeans arrived...and Qarth seems to fit the descriptions of the people, food,dressing and wealth of medieval India. Quote Asshai would be whatever is the worlds most polluted city. Right now I think thats New Delhi. Asshai is defined by its nuclear winter like conditions. that was one of the reasons why India was my other choice for Asshai after Qarth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastWolf Posted June 27, 2020 Author Share Posted June 27, 2020 On 6/25/2020 at 11:08 PM, Aldarion said: Iron Islands = Scandinavia You can't include all of Scandinavia, maybe only Viking ruled areas. On 6/25/2020 at 11:08 PM, Aldarion said: Beyond the Neck = Arctic I think you must mean Beyond the Wall, as you have given Scotland and Russia for the North On 6/25/2020 at 11:08 PM, Aldarion said: Reach = France Dorne = Spain This I totally agree with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Raventree Hall Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 On 6/26/2020 at 6:33 PM, TheLastWolf said: because I thought that one of those 2 would be Asshai and the other Qarth. Remember that India was one of the richest countries till the Europeans arrived...and Qarth seems to fit the descriptions of the people, food,dressing and wealth of medieval India. that was one of the reasons why India was my other choice for Asshai after Qarth. I just don't think either Asshai or Qarth look anything like Japanese culture. I sadly didn't learn Indian history besides in a general world history course (I'm an Asian History Major..but somehow India got 0 coverage during my major courses), but Qarth could admittedly have some similarities to India. Japan though, I know enough to say it doesn't appear to have many parallels with either of those places. Leng, an island south of Yi Ti with mentions of the fact that it cut itself off from the rest of the world (like Japan did) could have a little Japanese inspiration. However, based on the limited description of its culture and people, I'd guess Cambodia or Thailand would be better real world inspirations for Leng. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aebram Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 On 6/25/2020 at 5:26 AM, TheLastWolf said: WESTEROS - ENGLAND (incl Wales and Scotland ) ESSOS - EASTERN EUROPE(WHAT WE SEE ATLEAST) YI TI - CHINA ASSHAI-BY-THE-SHADOW - INDIA/JAPAN SLAVER'S BAY - MEDITTERANEAN SEA VALYRIA - ROME (with the Doom being the eruption of Mt. Vesuvius at Pompeii) GHISCARI CITIES - GREEK EMPIRE (with Crete as the Isle of Cedars ) supporting point : TOKARS are similair to TOGAS SUMMER ISLES - AFRICAN ISLANDS ??? not sure QARTH - INDIA/JAPAN SUNSET SEA - ATLANTIC SEA with the unknown land as NORTH AMERICA LANDS OF ALWAYS WINTER - ARCTIC AND NORTH POLE. IBBEN - RUSSIA/UKRAINE OR MURMANSK any more??? This is a great topic, thanks for starting it! Here are my contributions. The Wall = Hadrian's Wall. I think GRRM has acknowledged that it was the inspiration. Wildfire = Greek fire, a real-life incendiary that was used in ancient naval battles. Iron Islands = Scandinavia / Vikings. Both did a lot of raiding, sometimes hauling their longships long distances over land to reach inland waterways. Faceless Men = ninjas. As well as skilled assassins and fighters, ninja were expert at disguise and deception, intrusion and escape, and trained to improvise by making use of any available weapons or resources. Volantis = India. Sorry to disagree with the OP on this one, but Volantis gets my vote because of the hot humid climate, the sacred river, and especially the elephants. Sothyryos = Africa IMO, because of the climate, jungles, ferocious animals, and tropical diseases. Summer Isles = Caribbean is a good one I hadn't thought of. Valyrian steel = Damascus steel, or the Japanese samurai swords. Both are made by repeatedly folding the metal until it has many layers. Dothraki = nomadic tribes of Khazakstan ("Cossacks"). Expert horsemen who often raided naighboring peoples, but sometimes were bought off with gifts to prevent raids. I read that GRRM has stated that the Dothraki are based on several similar cultures from Asia. But the Khazaks had a famous leader named Timor or Tamar -- still a popular name in that country today -- and the Dothraki had a famous leader named Temmo, so ... Men of the Frozen Shore (or maybe it's one of the other peoples beyond the Wall; sorry, don't quite recall) = Innuit people, traveling by dogsled. That's all I can think of now. I'll probably be back with more later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanro Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 Westeros is not England, even though GRRM probably at the beginning of his writing way back when imagined it to be a blown-up version of England, thus its outlook as an island, its language uniformity across a vast land, similarly with its culture. And then readers (or GRRM himself?) said Lannister-Stark conflict is like Lancaster-York, which in microcosm it may be is, but in subsequent books is so much more. So I agree with @Aldarion that even in Westeros we can separate further roughly: The North is Scotland The Reach is France with its large population and fertile soil Dorne is Spain or Moorish Spain The Westerland, Riverland, Stormland and Vale are England, France, Germany and any other continental western European nations where chivalry blooms The Iron Island are the Vikings The Wall is Hadrian's Wall times a hundred Beyond the Wall is, well, anywhere subarctic and arctic Oldtown is almost definitely Vatican, a seemingly culture/religious-based independent and undisturbed city within a larger nation And then if we go beyond Westeros: Dothraki are the Mongols (or could be the Huns, but I prefer the Mongols) and their Vaes Dothral is indeed Karakorum The Nine Free Cities are inspired by the city states that flourish in late medieval and grow further during the renaissance, not necessarily just in Italy but also in western and northern Europe Sothoryos is Africa Slaver Cities on Slaver's Bay are harder to pin down, as I don't think any one of our real-life medieval/renaissance cities is like any of them, let alone concentrated in one specific geographical area, but this area added with Ghiscar could be inspired of the various city-states/kingdoms/castles on the eastern side of the Mediterranean Sea Yi Ti sounds too much like Chinese to not be inspired from it Grey Waste are the vast steppes in central Asia Shadow Lands are supposed to be mountainous, so my best bet would be southern Asia with its Himalayan mountain range, and back in the middle ages there would be so little known of this region to the Europeans so that would be "shadowy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldarion Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 20 hours ago, TheLastWolf said: You can't include all of Scandinavia, maybe only Viking ruled areas. There were no "Viking ruled areas". Vikings are raiders from Scandinavia - it was just an occupation. 20 hours ago, TheLastWolf said: You can't include all of Scandinavia, maybe only Viking ruled areas. Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastWolf Posted June 29, 2020 Author Share Posted June 29, 2020 CROSSOVER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springwatch Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 Braavos is Venice, with its canals, and the Arsenal that could build a ship in a day. But also Rhodes and the Colossus - so not limited to just one thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Leftwich Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 Dorne also has a bit of Wales in its character/make-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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