Jump to content
Quaithe from Asshai

TWOW in 2021 seems ever more likely

Recommended Posts

7 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Had Dany’s, Tyrion’s and Jon’s stories been pruned, and we then got the battle of Meereen, and the battle of ice, I think everyone would say ADWD was fantastic.

Maybe.  I don't know,  most people seem to still love both of the last two books, despite their, IMO, pretty obviously short comings.  But then I don't even care about the Battle of Meereen, why should I, it has no bearing on the rest of the story except for whatever, I  now assume, bad lessons that Dany learns from it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

I feel like we do know, at least I feel that I 'know' there is enough evidence to say that the 5 year gap would have been preferable and to me anyway, the last two novels are objectively worse than the first 3.   Brienne's wanderings didnt' tell us anything important that we didn't already know from Arya's time in the Riverlands and certainly nothing that couldn't have been covered by an existing POV.  AFFC had some good chapters, but realistically, it wasn't much of a novel, there wasn't a character arc for anyone except Cersei, there were some chapters and some stuff happened, nothing centering around any major story that had beginning, middle or end or even a narrative or thematic consistency.  So, I count that is evidence that the results of giving up on the gap were negative.  The same goes for Dance, he doubled down on writing E V E R Y T H I N G, pages and pages of needless detail isn't worldbuilding it is authorial excess, and while more happens in Dance than Feast, there still isn't much in terms of a narrative arc although the characters move forward in their growth and their stories, mostly, it is at a glacial pace. 

ETA and it is January 2, 2021, and no word on Winds completion, which is to me more evidence that everything he has done since Storm of Swords has led him down the wrong path.  

Expecting an update at the beginning of January was optimistic.  I would have thought by now that we would have learned not to expect something at a given time. :)

But sure, I can definitely understand how people wouldn't be as happy with aFfC/aDwD as the first 3 book.  They were different.  Different doesn't make them bad but it means that some people will find them inferior.

As for Brienne.  I'm sure people have written about the purpose of Brienne much better than I.  Arya showed us what happened during the war, Brienne showed us the aftermath.  But also GRRM is a little fascinated by the knights journey (and honor, duty etc).  He didn't come up with Dunk and Egg by coincidence.  Or Jaime for that matter.  So yes, it wasn't a story that some people felt they wanted more of but it was a story that GRRM felt he needed to tell.

And I'm sure GRRM would agree that there were negatives about giving up on the gap.  But he would feel that they are outweighed by the negatives of keeping the gap.  Its one of those great "what-ifs".

So yes, I did like Sam's journey, Arya, Sansa, Brienne, Jaime, Cersei.  The conclusion of the Dornish story was spine-chilling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, Padraig said:

But sure, I can definitely understand how people wouldn't be as happy with aFfC/aDwD as the first 3 book.  They were different.  Different doesn't make them bad but it means that some people will find them inferior.

Personaly I find them superior. Really pleasant to read, unlike the first one - aGoT is clunky in comparison to the latter books, no matter how much bearing it has to the rest of the story. And I love Brienne, just like I love Dunk. I think I do not need to see the ending that much, maybe I do not even want the story to end. I just wait for another part of it to devour, something new.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, $erPounce said:

While we're not sure ...

Are we really not sure about their reliability? How many times does someone's sources have to be incorrect before we question the value of a source for the specific purpose of giving us insight into progress or publishing plans?

And as Cas says, the fact is that you can pretty much any "late 20XX" and that was a date RH and George hoped to have the book done by. This is not really insightful or useful.

Brynden writes some really good, insightful stuff, and some great explainers of things. He's a good guy. But I (purely in my personal capacity) think he should consider getting out of the "insider source" line of things until after the book is published. Then he can share a bit more information in a retrospective essay explaining his understanding of the process based on what his source or sources told him, if he wishes, rather than contributing to the gossip mill.

 

Edited by Ran

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, $erPounce said:

This only says his publishers 'expected' to get it in 2020, LOL, they've been expecting it since 2015, so it doesn't seem like much 'insider' information and even it was correct, GRRM screwed them over one more time.  It will be interesting, I guess, what this new 'explanation' is and how credible it seems 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Ran said:

Are we really not sure about their reliability? How many times does someone's sources have to be incorrect before we question the value of a source for the specific purpose of giving us insight into progress or publishing plans?

And as Cas says, the fact is that you can pretty much any "late 20XX" and that was a date RH and George hoped to have the book done by. This is not really insightful or useful.

Brynden writes some really good, insightful stuff, and some great explainers of things. He's a good guy. But I (purely in my personal capacity) think he should consider getting out of the "insider source" line of things until after the book is published. Then he can share a bit more information in a retrospective essay explaining his understanding of the process based on what his source or sources told him, if he wishes, rather than contributing to the gossip mill.

Actually, you are right. I should actually ignore these rumours. Every year was a possible publication date that George R. R. Martin had in mind. Rumours, however, provide opportunities to start discussions. 

I am a fan of BryndenBFish's essays and his podcast NotACast gives good insights for the chapters from the ASOIAF books. However, if I were him, I would not spread any rumours. The internet can be very toxic if a rumour from "sources" turns out to be untrue (which can have an impact on the mental wellbeing of the distributor).

The Winds of Winter is finished when it is done, how long it took to get the book done will ultimately not matter if the book is of very good quality.  I believe that George R. R. Martin can live up to the high expectations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/3/2021 at 2:05 PM, Padraig said:

Expecting an update at the beginning of January was optimistic.  I would have thought by now that we would have learned not to expect something at a given time. :)

But sure, I can definitely understand how people wouldn't be as happy with aFfC/aDwD as the first 3 book.  They were different.  Different doesn't make them bad but it means that some people will find them inferior.

As for Brienne.  I'm sure people have written about the purpose of Brienne much better than I.  Arya showed us what happened during the war, Brienne showed us the aftermath.  But also GRRM is a little fascinated by the knights journey (and honor, duty etc).  He didn't come up with Dunk and Egg by coincidence.  Or Jaime for that matter.  So yes, it wasn't a story that some people felt they wanted more of but it was a story that GRRM felt he needed to tell.

And I'm sure GRRM would agree that there were negatives about giving up on the gap.  But he would feel that they are outweighed by the negatives of keeping the gap.  Its one of those great "what-ifs".

So yes, I did like Sam's journey, Arya, Sansa, Brienne, Jaime, Cersei.  The conclusion of the Dornish story was spine-chilling.

But even if you like the last 2 books if someone asked you to do summaries about them you would need few pages. 

At this point in time quality wise they are inferior to the first 3 because the plot basically doesn t move forward. It is like grrm hit the brakes on the story and decided to do a lot of slice of life... However, if the books end up being crucial to understand stuff that happens in the last books their quality will increase. It will all depend on how grrm writes the next books.

 

2 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

This only says his publishers 'expected' to get it in 2020, LOL, they've been expecting it since 2015, so it doesn't seem like much 'insider' information and even it was correct, GRRM screwed them over one more time.  It will be interesting, I guess, what this new 'explanation' is and how credible it seems 

I think everybody expected some kind of anouncement in 2020 given grrm declaration of reading the book in a convention in august. Besides the pandemic that freed a lot of grrm time. 

I have no idea in how many projects grrm is involved, but I think everybody should be aware that with hollywod restarting he will be busy because of the pandemic delays. Either he finishes the book in a short while or it will take him at least another couple of years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, divica said:

But even if you like the last 2 books if someone asked you to do summaries about them you would need few pages. 

At this point in time quality wise they are inferior to the first 3 because the plot basically doesn t move forward. It is like grrm hit the brakes on the story and decided to do a lot of slice of life... However, if the books end up being crucial to understand stuff that happens in the last books their quality will increase. It will all depend on how grrm writes the next books.

 

I think everybody expected some kind of anouncement in 2020 given grrm declaration of reading the book in a convention in august. Besides the pandemic that freed a lot of grrm time. 

I have no idea in how many projects grrm is involved, but I think everybody should be aware that with hollywod restarting he will be busy because of the pandemic delays. Either he finishes the book in a short while or it will take him at least another couple of years.

Once he missed that deadline, I didn't really expect any announcement, and you saw that many of the GRRM 'everything he does is good' started to say it was a joke to begin with and he never meant it....but I believe he did, at the time the writing must have been going well and he felt optimistic.

 I have to feel if he hasn't made significant headway being basically locked down for a year, that he may never finish, especially as you say, once things restart he will again be distracted by the other projects.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, $erPounce said:

 

The Winds of Winter is finished when it is done, how long it took to get the book done will ultimately not matter if the book is of very good quality.  I believe that George R. R. Martin can live up to the high expectations.

It will matter how long it took to write, because it has a knock on effect on ADOS. 

At this stage unless GRRM surprises everyone by wrapping up the story in TWOW or is secretly already 75% of the way through ADOS, then ASOIAF will not be finished.

And that will be a result of TWOW taking a decade to write (also aided by the decade taken to write AFFC and ADWD) 

Edited by ManBearPig

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/2/2021 at 2:20 PM, SeanF said:

Had Dany’s, Tyrion’s and Jon’s stories been pruned, and we then got the battle of Meereen, and the battle of ice, I think everyone would say ADWD was fantastic.

Honestly, I don't feel like the stories of Dany and Jon needed to be pruned. I feel like those chapters were instrumental to the circumstances that created the Battles of Ice (Winterfell) and Fire (Meereen). The Battle of Meereen is absolutely meaningless if you overedit the Daenerys POV.

The Battle of Winterfell doesn't need Jon Snow like the Battle of Meereen needs Daenerys Targaryen because Theon and later Asha act as POVs who are much more closely-tied to Winterfell than Jon Snow. But if you overedit the Jon POV, then you miss out on all of the other political stuff at the Wall. Which is pretty important because it all feeds into both the Battle of Winterfell and the Second Long Night. It is impossible for the Night's Watch to not be political. And the Night's Watch can't be neutral forever: we saw how neutrality went for them in A Storm of Swords when they were losing badly against the Free Folk. Neutrality doesn't work for the Watch nor do I think it ever worked. So what happens when it is the Others? Jon's story is too difficult to trim. Cutting it down may very well mean that Davos or Melisandre would be taking some of Jon chapters.

Take Ser Barristan as an example. His chapters were originally envisioned as Dany chapters. Part of solving the Meereenese Knot required Martin to make Barristan Selmy a POV character.

To be honest, with the way that George Martin wrote it, it was impossible for both those battles to take place in the same book as Dany and Jon's chapters. Well, I take that back.

You can put the Dany and Jon stories in the same book as the Battles of Meereen and Winterfell. But you can't have anything else in it.

The Battle of Meereen looks and feels like it can (and will) take up an entire book. Especially since the likelihood of Dany returning to Meereen at the head of a Dothraki super-khalasar is fairly high. Whether or not they are rushing in to save Meereen in the eleventh hour is up for debate but GRRM has had his heart set on this Khal Daenerys thing since 1993. The Battle of Meereen and Dany's sojourn in the Dothraki Sea are supposed to to be happening at the same time. Just like the Battle of Winterfell, Jon's super-long wolf dream and the events at the Wall are supposed to be happening at the same time.

Could we have ever had a book with just Dany, Jon and the POVs associated with the Battles of Ice and Fire? Yes but that was a bit beyond the pale, it's too late now and that book would've been pretty big.

The problem and the biggest mistake of GRRM was splitting Feast and Dance up so weirdly and unevenly. He should've never listened to his friend and just kept to his idea of releasing a intermission-type of novella for the Dornish and the Ironborn characters and then a novel for everyone else.

According to what we know about the stuff the chapters that were pushed back, there were 3 Barristan chapters, 2 Tyrion chapters and 2 Victarion...and the battle has only JUST begun.

I don't see why GRRM couldn't have put the first couple Dany, Tyrion and Jon chapters in Feast or something. Or at least, kept all the characters who were exclusive to A Feast for Crows (Cersei, Jaime, Arya, Areo) in A Feast for Crows. That book had what 40something chapters. Cersei, Arya, Jaime and Areo had 6 chapters all together in A Dance with Dragons. Put those six in Feast and call it a day. Put the first Asha chapter from Dance into Feast and call it a day.

That's what? 10 or 11 chapters right there. Cut out of Dance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/3/2021 at 9:10 AM, broken one said:

Really pleasant to read, unlike the first one - aGoT is clunky in comparison to the latter books, no matter how much bearing it has to the rest of the story.

Agreed.

There is a lot jumping, skipping and glazing over in A Game of Thrones that makes the passage of time feel wonky and the storytelling suffers a tiny bit as well. It's a great book but it does feel a lot more rushed and clumsier compared to A Storm of Swords.

A Clash of Kings makes similar mistakes too but on a smaller scale.

Believe it or not, the travelogues help the story.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, divica said:

But even if you like the last 2 books if someone asked you to do summaries about them you would need few pages. 

At this point in time quality wise they are inferior to the first 3 because the plot basically doesn t move forward. It is like grrm hit the brakes on the story and decided to do a lot of slice of life... However, if the books end up being crucial to understand stuff that happens in the last books their quality will increase. It will all depend on how grrm writes the next books.

I agree that tWoW will shine a new light on events in aFfC/aDwD (and how we judge those books).  But i've always found the "summary" argument to be very subjective.  I don't judge a book based on how I can summarise it.

13 hours ago, divica said:

Besides the pandemic that freed a lot of grrm time. 

I have no idea in how many projects grrm is involved, but I think everybody should be aware that with hollywod restarting he will be busy because of the pandemic delays. Either he finishes the book in a short while or it will take him at least another couple of years.

Unfortunately, I don't think it works that way.  GRRM has never really seriously lacked for time (I know people complain all the time about this but I never really bought it).  It is creativity, inspiration etc that he needs.  The muse!  To wake up in the morning and feel you can write a few chapters that will tie excellently with all that has gone before!

The pandemic may actually be anti-creative.  You are worried about friends and family getting ill (and maybe some actually do get seriously ill).  You miss meeting your close friends and family.  You feel stifled by having nothing to do except stare at a computer screen all day

Creativity often breeds more creativity.  You do great with Job X, which inspires you to do Job Y.  Or you are struggling with job Z, so you take a break with Job W instead, and return to job Z refreshed.

It does sound like GRRM did some good writing during the pandemic (the 2020 version) but it doesn't sound like that lasted for close to 8 or 9 months.

10 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

Or at least, kept all the characters who were exclusive to A Feast for Crows (Cersei, Jaime, Arya, Areo) in A Feast for Crows.   That book had what 40something chapters. Cersei, Arya, Jaime and Areo had 6 chapters all together in A Dance with Dragons. Put those six in Feast and call it a day. Put the first Asha chapter from Dance into Feast and call it a day.

I'm assuming he didn't have a lot of those chapters written when aFfC was published.

But yes, I think GRRM would do things differently if he had a chance again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

Honestly, I don't feel like the stories of Dany and Jon needed to be pruned. I feel like those chapters were instrumental to the circumstances that created the Battles of Ice (Winterfell) and Fire (Meereen). The Battle of Meereen is absolutely meaningless if you overedit the Daenerys POV.

The Battle of Winterfell doesn't need Jon Snow like the Battle of Meereen needs Daenerys Targaryen because Theon and later Asha act as POVs who are much more closely-tied to Winterfell than Jon Snow. But if you overedit the Jon POV, then you miss out on all of the other political stuff at the Wall. Which is pretty important because it all feeds into both the Battle of Winterfell and the Second Long Night. It is impossible for the Night's Watch to not be political. And the Night's Watch can't be neutral forever: we saw how neutrality went for them in A Storm of Swords when they were losing badly against the Free Folk. Neutrality doesn't work for the Watch nor do I think it ever worked. So what happens when it is the Others? Jon's story is too difficult to trim. Cutting it down may very well mean that Davos or Melisandre would be taking some of Jon chapters.

The problem and the biggest mistake of GRRM was splitting Feast and Dance up so weirdly and unevenly. He should've never listened to his friend and just kept to his idea of releasing a intermission-type of novella for the Dornish and the Ironborn characters and then a novel for everyone else.

According to what we know about the stuff the chapters that were pushed back, there were 3 Barristan chapters, 2 Tyrion chapters and 2 Victarion...and the battle has only JUST begun.

I don't see why GRRM couldn't have put the first couple Dany, Tyrion and Jon chapters in Feast or something. Or at least, kept all the characters who were exclusive to A Feast for Crows (Cersei, Jaime, Arya, Areo) in A Feast for Crows. That book had what 40something chapters. Cersei, Arya, Jaime and Areo had 6 chapters all together in A Dance with Dragons. Put those six in Feast and call it a day. Put the first Asha chapter from Dance into Feast and call it a day.

That's what? 10 or 11 chapters right there. Cut out of Dance.

The more I've thought about it the more I feel that Cersei and Briennes chapters needed to be edited and pruned significantly, along with just cutting out the Dornish and Ironborne stuff and doing a separate novella.  That would have left so much more room to focus on either the Battle of Winterfell or the Battle of Mereen and make a more logically composed story throughout AFFC and ADWD.  I've also thought that Quentyn's POV was mostly pointless even though it was a good story within a story because you could cut out so much of it and just have him pop up in Mereen in Dany or Barristan's POV.  

I feel that both Cersei and Brienne chapters have really good core concepts that are run into the ground by too much repetition and are really just too long.  To give them 18 chapters in AFFC while Arya and Sansa only get 6 seems way too lopsided for me.  I think you could cut at least 5 of Cersei Brienne chapters to get them down to 7 or 6 each which is exactly in line with Jaime's 7 chapters.  I also thought that Sam's 5 chapters were far too much especially considering that 1 of them just completely overlaps with and mostly repeats Jon's POV in ADWD.  By cutting all these out, you'd open like half of AFFC to put whatever chapters you want, such as Jon or Dany early POVs and then you could maybe finish one or both of the Battles in ADWD.  Jon, Dany, and Tyrion got 13, 10, and 12 chapters respectively in ADWD.  That's probably a little too much and if you could just take 3-5 chapters each and move them to AFFC you get far more balanced books.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not just that there are too many chapters for some characters in these books.  Which there are. I would cut out a significant number of chapters if I could; I'd combine Brienne's first four into one, for example. But it's that each chapter double to triple the size of your average chapter in the first three books (while accomplishing less). My favorite example is the final Sansa chapter in AFFC, in which it takes 30 paperback pages for her to get down from the Eyrie. Cat's ascent in book 1, meanwhile, took about 10; and that was the first time we saw it!

AFFC and ADWD are very bloated and paced badly. I also don't agree that the writing is better than in earlier books; there are some well-written chapters and POVs in there for sure, but these are also the books in which GRRM's faux-medievalisms take over and we get lines like "the sight of their arousal was arousing." 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Tagganaro said:

The more I've thought about it the more I feel that Cersei and Briennes chapters needed to be edited and pruned significantly, along with just cutting out the Dornish and Ironborne stuff and doing a separate novella.  That would have left so much more room to focus on either the Battle of Winterfell or the Battle of Mereen and make a more logically composed story throughout AFFC and ADWD.  I've also thought that Quentyn's POV was mostly pointless even though it was a good story within a story because you could cut out so much of it and just have him pop up in Mereen in Dany or Barristan's POV.  

I feel that both Cersei and Brienne chapters have really good core concepts that are run into the ground by too much repetition and are really just too long.  To give them 18 chapters in AFFC while Arya and Sansa only get 6 seems way too lopsided for me.  I think you could cut at least 5 of Cersei Brienne chapters to get them down to 7 or 6 each which is exactly in line with Jaime's 7 chapters.  I also thought that Sam's 5 chapters were far too much especially considering that 1 of them just completely overlaps with and mostly repeats Jon's POV in ADWD.  By cutting all these out, you'd open like half of AFFC to put whatever chapters you want, such as Jon or Dany early POVs and then you could maybe finish one or both of the Battles in ADWD.  Jon, Dany, and Tyrion got 13, 10, and 12 chapters respectively in ADWD.  That's probably a little too much and if you could just take 3-5 chapters each and move them to AFFC you get far more balanced books.  

That's the problem.

You can't cut Cersei's chapters because she's thee King's Landing POV, the Small Council POV. She's our eyes and ears to the governance of the realm. The Small Council POV always gets a bunch of chapters.

Ned Stark was the Hand in Game and he had 15 chapters. Tyrion Lannister was the Hand in Clash and he got 15 chapters. Tyrion Lannister was the Small Council POV in Storm as the Master of Coin: he got 11 chapters. Jaime Lannister replaced Tyrion as the Small Council POV in his last few chapters which brought him to 9 chapters. Cersei Lannister, as the Queen Regent and unofficial Hand in Feast, deserves all 10 chapters to be honest (12 if you want to lump her Dance chapters in as well)

Brienne is a different matter. Her story needed to be trimmed but bringing her down to 6 or 7 chapters from 8 isn't doing much. And you definitely can't get any lower than 5 chapters without making serious cuts.

Quentyn's POV is a different story. I mostly agree but it all leads up to the Dragontamer chapter...which HAS to be a Quentyn POV. In fact, I think that he could've had more POV chapters. As far as I am concerned, GRRM made plenty of cuts to Quentyn's story. I have a feeling Quentyn was supposed to take a detour to Norvos and visit his mother. I also feel that the first Quentyn chapter is two chapters condensed into one as one half of it is a flashback of what happened in Lys and the other half being about how what happens in Volantis makes Quentyn go undercover as a sellsword.

It was also nice to get to see what happened to Astapor instead of just relying on what we had been hearing by way of the Dany POV.

GRRM should've just told half the story with all the characters in two books instead of trying to tell the full story with half of the characters over the course of two books.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Tagganaro said:

The more I've thought about it the more I feel that Cersei and Briennes chapters needed to be edited and pruned significantly, along with just cutting out the Dornish and Ironborne stuff and doing a separate novella.  That would have left so much more room to focus on either the Battle of Winterfell or the Battle of Mereen and make a more logically composed story throughout AFFC and ADWD.  I've also thought that Quentyn's POV was mostly pointless even though it was a good story within a story because you could cut out so much of it and just have him pop up in Mereen in Dany or Barristan's POV.  

I feel that both Cersei and Brienne chapters have really good core concepts that are run into the ground by too much repetition and are really just too long.  To give them 18 chapters in AFFC while Arya and Sansa only get 6 seems way too lopsided for me.  I think you could cut at least 5 of Cersei Brienne chapters to get them down to 7 or 6 each which is exactly in line with Jaime's 7 chapters.  I also thought that Sam's 5 chapters were far too much especially considering that 1 of them just completely overlaps with and mostly repeats Jon's POV in ADWD.  By cutting all these out, you'd open like half of AFFC to put whatever chapters you want, such as Jon or Dany early POVs and then you could maybe finish one or both of the Battles in ADWD.  Jon, Dany, and Tyrion got 13, 10, and 12 chapters respectively in ADWD.  That's probably a little too much and if you could just take 3-5 chapters each and move them to AFFC you get far more balanced books.  

Agree. One of the things that disappointed me the most in FeastDance is the lack of focus. Bran Stark the character that we follow since the first book, his chapters in Dance finaly became entertaining and he have only 3 chapters... meanwhile Quentyn have what 4? 5? chapters? that was completely filler.

The same thing goes to non-POV characters, theres more page about master Yezza whatever his name is, Penny and her pig than Lady Stoneheart... Wasn't Cat Stark important to the history? why i read more page about some ramdom slaver having diarrhea and Tyrion riding a pig than LSH?

In FeastDance there is hundred of pages about Ser creighon, Ser Quincy cox, Nimble dick, Grandza mo Eraz, Reznak, Skahaz, Haazoo and hundreds of filler characters... and theres almost nothing about the white walkers. Wasn't the Others suppose to be important to the history? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With no New Year's update, the launch of James Webb Space Telescope seems more likely in 2021 than TWoW.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, ThotKiller said:

Agree. One of the things that disappointed me the most in FeastDance is the lack of focus. Bran Stark the character that we follow since the first book, his chapters in Dance finaly became entertaining and he have only 3 chapters... meanwhile Quentyn have what 4? 5? chapters? that was completely filler.

The same thing goes to non-POV characters, theres more page about master Yezza whatever his name is, Penny and her pig than Lady Stoneheart... Wasn't Cat Stark important to the history? why i read more page about some ramdom slaver having diarrhea and Tyrion riding a pig than LSH?

In FeastDance there is hundred of pages about Ser creighon, Ser Quincy cox, Nimble dick, Grandza mo Eraz, Reznak, Skahaz, Haazoo and hundreds of filler characters... and theres almost nothing about the white walkers. Wasn't the Others suppose to be important to the history? 

Just because something is important to the story doesn't mean there should be more written about it. And I don't personally think that Quentyn's chapters were filler. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/5/2021 at 6:06 PM, BlackLightning said:

The problem and the biggest mistake of GRRM was splitting Feast and Dance up so weirdly and unevenly. He should've never listened to his friend and just kept to his idea of releasing a intermission-type of novella for the Dornish and the Ironborn characters and then a novel for everyone else.

I didn’t know that was an idea that was floated. I like it. I read a fan account from 2000 where a fan asked if we would be getting a Cersei POV and he said something like, he didn’t see the point. I guess those POV floodgates really opened after Storm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...