Hodor the Articulate Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 2 hours ago, Jeeves said: Indeed it is a lifetime project. I also believe she will return to Meereen to continue the needed reforms. Essos has no other leader who can accomplish such a thing. Benerro is not the right leader for this job. Neither is Daario. I still think she will go to Westeros for a time and come back to Meereen to finally settle the score. Hard to say how Essos will be sorted. But it seems obvious to me what's going happen in the immediate future. I mean, she's heading to the Dothraki and she's probably conquering them all, going by the HOTU vision and the Stallion prophecy. This would largely cut off the supply of slaves and starve ALL the slave cities. Plus, it gives her a huge army to help enforce her ban. Volantene slaves are waiting for her arrival to start rebelling, but they might just start a slave revolt all on their own. Perhaps Essos will be rebuilt without too much input from Dany, too. Braavos was built from scratch, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 On 6/28/2020 at 11:32 PM, Rose of Red Lake said: The U.S. ended slavery through a coalition of states, under a democratic government, under an elected president, using traditional force of arms, with a rule of law - not by an autocrat on the back of a flying nuke who was the "sole" decider for everyone's fate, who is by the way, ready to fuck off to another continent? Dany's solution to slavery in the U.S. would be to round up all white people, randomly execute them, burn cities, leave some sellswords in charge, leave for a new continent, repeat. Freeeeeedddeddddoommm! Sherman's March to the Sea wasn't exactly sweetness and light. One might almost say that he brought "fire and blood". It's going too far to call it Total War, as some historians have done, but it was certainly ruthless war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 1 hour ago, Hodor the Articulate said: . This is more just more meaningless buzzword-ing and conjecture, and you're completely arbitrary in what you consider acceptable hard power. Dragons are "too easy" (whatever that means) but magical stealth assassins are totally cool and realistic. Is your problem with dragons that they're capable of targetting multiple enemies at the same time? No one could say that Arya and Sansa are in a good place right now. Arya is being drawn into a murderous cult, Sansa is in danger of becoming Littlefinger's accomplice. I have huge sympathy for the pair of them, and I hope they are both able to break free, but both are in danger of losing their moral compass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor the Articulate Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 12 minutes ago, SeanF said: No one could say that Arya and Sansa are in a good place right now. Arya is being drawn into a murderous cult, Sansa is in danger of becoming Littlefinger's accomplice. I have huge sympathy for the pair of them, and I hope they are both able to break free, but both are in danger of losing their moral compass. Indeed. The Stark girls are going through some weird dissociative experience, Bran is mind-raping Hodor and eating people through his wolf, Rickon's probably gone wild and possibly engaging in cannibalism too... Jon's baby swapping seems pretty tame compared to what his trueborn kin are up to. But because we don't have weird hate-boners for any them, we hope they'll return to normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 16 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said: Abolition already happened in Meereen. This whole plot in Dance was the test to see if she could hold it, and keep it free. That involves reconstruction. Reconstruction isn't going to constant war. Of course it is. There was basically martial law in the south for like 20 years during Americas reconstruction. They wielded no power in Washington, plus boots on the ground like they were still at war. 16 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said: The U.S. ended slavery through a coalition of states, under a democratic government, under an elected president, using traditional force of arms, with a rule of law - not by an autocrat on the back of a flying nuke who was the "sole" decider for everyone's fate, who is by the way, ready to fuck off to another continent? Yea I dont agree with everything here. Honest Abe, like so many in ye Grand Olde Party, was elected because of gerrymandering and the electoral collage. He infringed on constitutional rights, like suspending Habeas Corpus and commissioned generals like Grant and his mentally unstable friend Sherman, who made no secret of using total war upon the inhabitants of the south, a far cry from traditional warfare. Old Hickory was basically an autocrat flying on the back of a seemingly endless amount of irish immigrants/recruits. Who had no problem deciding the fate of the entirety of the usa and was almost definitely not ready to fuck off and leave for another continent... Which could have become awfully problematic. 16 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said: No abolitionist would harm slaves or ever seek to buy slaves in the first place. Ok, like John Brown? No your right, he was a special kinda guy. I agree that Jesus, or Quaithe or whomever, didn't appear and tell Dany her lifes work will be combating slavery. We know her lifes goal, to preserve the union. So was the Rail Splitter not an abolitionist? He ran on the platform of friendship with the south and honoring dumb laws like the Fugitive Slave Act, but is remembered for freeing the slaves through the emancipation proclamation... which didnt actually free all (any of) the slaves, with clauses in states like West Virginia and his old Kentucky home. But does any of that matter? Whenever, however, whyever, who cares? Lincoln and Dany freed the slaves. How can they not be thought of as abolitionists? 16 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said: But GRRM always said this story was about Westeros and anything else outside of that only matters for Westeros Citation(s) please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 5 hours ago, Hodor the Articulate said: But because we don't have weird hate-boners for any them, we hope they'll return to normal. I like them dark . Especially Bran and Arya... Talk about wmd. Cant they just warg any of these dragons? I mean Aryas powers are fucking scary, and Brans supposed to be even stronger. All this body swapping, its like some Battlestar Galactica shit. And they needed all the nukes they can get Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wall Flower Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 On 6/29/2020 at 12:46 AM, Rose of Red Lake said: Hizdahr is willing to change things to please her. He calls off the lions at her request. Thats why the fighting pits were the perfect opportunity to work on reforms through politicking; it could have been a fantastic project and accomplishment for her. She's already married to the guy who owns them all. They already have people willing to fight for glory. They'd fight for gold too. But sure, burn it all down and dont even try. Is this the same Hizdahr that encourages her to eat poison locusts and orders his spearmen to kill Drogon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 12 hours ago, Wall Flower said: Is this the same Hizdahr that encourages her to eat poison locusts and orders his spearmen to kill Drogon? No, that would be the other one, the one @Rose of Red Lake seems to be in love with... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 26 minutes ago, Lord Varys said: No, that would be the other one, the one @Rose of Red Lake seems to be in love with... Come on! He's a big-hearted guy. If you really ask nicely, he won't go ahead with feeding dwarves to lions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wall Flower Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 4 hours ago, Lord Varys said: No, that would be the other one, the one @Rose of Red Lake seems to be in love with... I think the show's portrayal of Hizdahr as a #not all slavers nice guy also has a lot to answer for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor the Articulate Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 2 hours ago, Wall Flower said: I think the show's portrayal of Hizdahr as a #not all slavers nice guy also has a lot to answer for. Isn't it interesting that when people want to argue #NotAllSlavers (including the abomination), no one ever brings up the Shavepate? Here is one noble who gives up old customs and embraces Dany's regime *, but it's always Hizzy Lo or or some imagined "innocent" slaver that gets brought up. * Lest anyone tries to say Skahaz proves Slavers with a Heart of Gold exists - he was from a lesser House and gained a lot of power through aligning with Dany. He is also the only noble that switches sides and is considered a traitor by the rest of nobility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van Gogh Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Hodor the Articulate said: Isn't it interesting that when people want to argue #NotAllSlavers (including the abomination), no one ever brings up the Shavepate? Here is one noble who gives up old customs and embraces Dany's regime *, but it's always Hizzy Lo or or some imagined "innocent" slaver that gets brought up. * Lest anyone tries to say Skahaz proves Slavers with a Heart of Gold exists - he was from a lesser House and gained a lot of power through aligning with Dany. He is also the only noble that switches sides and is considered a traitor by the rest of nobility. I would like to think this guy, Skahaz Mo Kandaq, also switched sides because he wanted to change Meereen for the better. It is mostly for political gain but I am hoping he has also seen the light. Like maybe his family felt guilty. They saw the chance to free the slaves when Dany came along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 3 hours ago, Hodor the Articulate said: Isn't it interesting that when people want to argue #NotAllSlavers (including the abomination), no one ever brings up the Shavepate? Here is one noble who gives up old customs and embraces Dany's regime *, but it's always Hizzy Lo or or some imagined "innocent" slaver that gets brought up. Perhaps life in Hizhdahr's household was like Gone with the Wind, before Daenerys showed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted July 2, 2020 Author Share Posted July 2, 2020 On 6/30/2020 at 1:56 PM, SeanF said: Come on! He's a big-hearted guy. If you really ask nicely, he won't go ahead with feeding dwarves to lions. Not that his heart suddenly bled for them, but he did almost everything Daenerys asked. Either out of fear or opportunism, we dont know. Doesn't really matter in the realm of politics, all that matters are results. "No queen can make her people good, but at least she can make them less bad." There was wisdom in that. Closing the fighting pits forever because "people will hurt themselves" or "it's a sin" is on par with Baelor trying to stop whoring. It's treating your people in an infantilizing way. "Mommy does what's best for you." Letting people freely fight and paying fighters a wage while establishing some codes about the rules of the game is totally reasonable, especially when the person running it is a rational actor (either caring about money or not getting burned alive). That's kind of moot now since Dany has decided to become a scorched earth warlord like everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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