The Bad Cat of King's Landing

[BlackLightning]

13 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

Who??? 

I don't know.

Rhaenys Targaryen, Shiera Seastar, Bloodraven, Rennifer Longwaters, Jacelyn Bywaters, Quaithe, Varys, Varamyr Sixskins, Bran's future self. LOL

Does it matter who? It could literally be anybody, any given skinchanger who may not have been introduced yet. Don't think too hard about it.

13 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

How??? 

What do you mean how?

Valonqar means "little brother" but Cersei and her septa took it too literally. As High Valyrian (Valyrian in general) is gender-neutral, what valonqar really means is "little brother" or "little sister." And it's worth pointing out that Maggy the Frog never actually told Cersei that Cersei's valonqar would be the one to kill her. Maggy just said the valonqar.

Arya and Euron both fit the literal definition of valonqars and both will likely have the means, opportunity and motive to do so.

So does Jaime and Tyrion but I think it's very unlikely that either of them would be valonqars. Jaime the Valonqar is very predictable, drab, anti-climatic and problematic. Jaime's arc is about the transformation of a villain into a hero. He is working very hard to restore his honor; killing his elder sister, queen and lover destroys any honor he had left--regardless of the reason. Maybe him killing Cersei wouldn't matter so much if he didn't betray two of the kings he was sworn to protect and serve, throw a child out of a window, and start a war over dumb fuckshit.

Tyrion the Valonqar? While climatic, it is very predictable and it's not GRRM's style to prove that all along that a bully like Cersei was right to be a bully. Because that'd be sending a very negative, nihilistic message that it's okay to treat people horribly for their entire lives if you have good reason to believe that they will turn on you. That's not to say that Tyrion won't try and that Cersei won't continue to hate and fear him....but yeah. GRRM has already thrown Tyrion a bone once by allowing him to kill his father. I doubt, he'll allow Tyrion to do the same once again to his sister and I doubt Cersei will put herself in a position where she would genuinely be in danger of being murdered by Tyrion.

Cersei isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer but she's not that stupid. Don't get her confused for Victarion.

[TheLastWolf]

1 hour ago, BlackLightning said:

Rhaenys Targaryen, Shiera Seastar, Bloodraven, Rennifer Longwaters, Jacelyn Bywaters, Quaithe, Varys, Varamyr Sixskins, Bran's future self. LOL

You missed Rohanne webber , but not a problem.and varamyr is not probable.

1 hour ago, BlackLightning said:

Does it matter who? It could literally be anybody, any given skinchanger who may not have been introduced yet. Don't think too hard about it.

Yes it does...to determine their agenda.

[TheLastWolf]

1 hour ago, BlackLightning said:

What do you mean how?

E-L-A-B-O-R-A-T-I-O-N

1 hour ago, BlackLightning said:

Valonqar means "little brother" but Cersei and her septa took it too literally. As High Valyrian (Valyrian in general) is gender-neutral, what valonqar really means is "little brother" or "little sister." And it's worth pointing out that Maggy the Frog never actually told Cersei that Cersei's valonqar would be the one to kill her. Maggy just said the valonqar.

Arya and Euron both fit the literal definition of valonqars and both will likely have the means, opportunity and motive to do so.

So does Jaime and Tyrion but I think it's very unlikely that either of them would be valonqars. Jaime the Valonqar is very predictable, drab, anti-climatic and problematic. Jaime's arc is about the transformation of a villain into a hero. He is working very hard to restore his honor; killing his elder sister, queen and lover destroys any honor he had left--regardless of the reason. Maybe him killing Cersei wouldn't matter so much if he didn't betray two of the kings he was sworn to protect and serve, throw a child out of a window, and start a war over dumb fuckshit.

Tyrion the Valonqar? While climatic, it is very predictable and it's not GRRM's style to prove that all along that a bully like Cersei was right to be a bully. Because that'd be sending a very negative, nihilistic message that it's okay to treat people horribly for their entire lives if you have good reason to believe that they will turn on you. That's not to say that Tyrion won't try and that Cersei won't continue to hate and fear him....but yeah. GRRM has already thrown Tyrion a bone once by allowing him to kill his father. I doubt, he'll allow Tyrion to do the same once again to his sister and I doubt Cersei will put herself in a position where she would genuinely be in danger of being murdered by Tyrion.

OK OK , you have me convinced.

1 hour ago, BlackLightning said:

Cersei isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer but she's not that stupid. Don't get her confused for Victarion.

[The Map Guy]

On 6/28/2020 at 10:27 AM, Lord Lannister said:

Sometimes a cat is just a cat.

No, in GRRM's world this tomcat is a F-14 Tomcat fighter jet ... or the medieval equivalent of a dragon. HIGHWAY TO THE DRAGON ZONE!!!!!

So these cats are dragons.

Balerion is Rhaenys' cat.
This represents Rhaegar's daughter's dragon ... and Rhaegal is named after Rhaegar.

Ser Pounce is Tommen's cat.
Tommen is Jaime's son. Ser Pounce represents Jaime.

Ser Jaime -> Ser "pounce" -> "BeLarION" -> Rhaegal

 

"The bad cat was outside my window last night," he informed Kevan at one point, "but Ser Pounce hissed at him and he ran off across the roofs."{Epilogue ADWD}

The roofs of King's Landing are the highest points of the city. Can we say that these tomcats were having a dogfight on the [w]oofs? (lol sorry, I couldn't help myself). Perhaps this foreshadows a dogfight above King's Landing in the furture?

 

Also for fun:

"The bad cat was outside my window last night," he informed Kevan at one point, "but Ser Pounce hissed at him and he ran off across the roofs."

Wow I love the random fireworks above the city in this scene.

[GoldenGail3]

Balerion. Rhaenys cat that she named after Balerion the Black Dread.

[Wintersshewolf]

I definitely think there's someone skinchanging the black cat, who is probably Princess Rhaenys' Balerion. I mean:

Quote

From soup to sweet Tommen burbled about the exploits of his kittens, whilst feeding them morsels of pike off his own royal plate. "The bad cat was outside my window last night," he informed Kevan at one point, "but Ser Pounce hissed at him and he ran off across the roofs."
"The bad cat?" Ser Kevan said, amused. He is a sweet boy.
"An old black tomcat with a torn ear," Cersei told him. "A filthy thing, and foul-tempered. He clawed Joff's hand once." She made a face. "The cats keep the rats down, I know, but that one … he's been known to attack ravens in the rookery." -- Epilogue, ADWD

I don't know who is doing it (maybe Varys?), but I do think that cat is leading somewhere. 

A thought I've been having about skinchanging is the possibility that that ability isn't just in specific Northerners or the children of the forest, but what if it's a Valyrian skill as well? F&B heavily suggests that dragon riders are bonded to their dragons the same way the Starklings are to their wolves. Skinchanging would explain why their emotions are connected and how they know where they are going while they're flying. Once the dragons were gone, there's a possibility that some of them extended their skills to other creatures. If so, Rhaenys' essence might have remained in Balerion. The first time we hear about the cat, is when Varys brings him up saying he's wondered whatever happened to him. Its a strange detail to bring up unless he knows exactly what happened to him.

Another reason I think the black cat/Balerion will be important is that Arya thinks of the cat even in Braavos. It could be setting up her re-entry into the Red Keep (possibly through the sewer she left through) and skinchanging Balerion as a second pair of eyes.

 

[szbszig]

I absolutely love the idea that he's Balerion, the late little Rhaenys's pet cat. But I don't want him turning out to be anything or anyone else, namely another skinchanger for example.

[TheLastWolf]

On 7/24/2020 at 12:06 PM, Wintersshewolf said:

don't know who is doing it (maybe Varys?),

Why him?!?! Please be kind enough to explain. And I'm not being sarcastic. Recently a lot of misrepresentations. 

On 7/24/2020 at 12:06 PM, Wintersshewolf said:

thought I've been having about skinchanging is the possibility that that ability isn't just in specific Northerners or the children of the forest, but what if it's a Valyrian skill as well? F&B heavily suggests that dragon riders are bonded to their dragons the same way the Starklings are to their wolves

@Wintersshewolf, you make great points.

How could the Tomcat be of further importance to the story/plot? He's mentioned repeatedly like Tyrek and Benjen. 

On 7/24/2020 at 2:03 PM, szbszig said:

But I don't want him turning out to be anything or anyone else, namely another skinchanger for example

Boring. 

[The Green Bard]

On 7/24/2020 at 2:36 AM, Wintersshewolf said:

Once the dragons were gone, there's a possibility that some of them extended their skills to other creatures. If so, Rhaenys' essence might have remained in Balerion. The first time we hear about the cat, is when Varys brings him up saying he's wondered whatever happened to him. Its a strange detail to bring up unless he knows exactly what happened to him.

Another reason I think the black cat/Balerion will be important is that Arya thinks of the cat even in Braavos. It could be setting up her re-entry into the Red Keep (possibly through the sewer she left through) and skinchanging Balerion as a second pair of eyes.

Certainly if you look at Dany's relationship with her silver mare, you can make the argument that Targaryens skinchange beasts other than dragons.  I do, however, believe that you are correct about a piece of Rhaenys being inside Rhaenys.  I dare say that she had her second life inside the cat.  It is the best explanation for the incident with Tywin's food.  

In my series on Sansa (Direwolves 1 from my sig), I cover how she once had inadvertent physical contact with the cat, and "almost jumped out of her skin."  I take this literally that she temporarily slipped the cat's skin.  As Varamyr points out, once a beast is ridden, it's easier for abouther skinchanger to ride again.  

To that end, I don't have any evidence that Varys or Baelish did so, but I wouldn't discard the idea either.  I also like your concept that Arya will skinchange the cat in the future.  This is a certain possibility, and Arya clearly already has made contact with the cat, so the familiarity should help.

[The Green Bard]

On 7/13/2020 at 12:33 AM, BlackLightning said:

start a war over dumb fuckshit

Err, Cat did that, but I digress.  I'll also say that Jaime is only obvious because we've over-analyzed this series so much that there is very little that GRRM could write that will surprise everyone.  To a majority, it would be a surprise or shock if Jaime killed her.  That said, I am not arguing it will happen, just that I think you are reaching with that particular argument.

I do agree with your argument that Tyrion is not likely to kill Cersei after he already had the satisfaction of killing Tywin.

[Walda]

Quote

“That’s the real king of this castle right there"

(AGoT Ch 32 Arya III)

Syrio tasked Arya with cat-catching so she could learn the secret ways of the Red Keep. And so GRRM can show us paths through the Red Keep without reading like a sat-nav.

When Arya chased this cat she learned there was a secret path from the nursery in Maegor's Holdfast out of the Red Keep. to the Blackwater

Quote

out the door and along a long hall, down a stair, across a hidden courtyard, around a corner and over a wall and through a low narrow window into a pitch-dark cellar.

... Arya got to her feet, moving warily. The heads were all around her... Her fingertips brushed a massive jaw... The bone was smooth beneath her hand, cold and hard to the touch. She ran her fingers down a tooth, black and sharp, a dagger made of darkness....

Another skull loomed ahead, the biggest monster of all, but Arya did not even slow. She leapt over a ridge of black teeth as tall as swords, dashed through hungry jaws, and threw herself against the door.

Her hands found a heavy iron ring set in the wood, and she yanked at it. The door resisted a moment, before it slowly began to swing inward, ... into the hallway beyond ... Her fingers brushed against rough unfinished stone to her left. She followed the wall, her hand skimming along the surface, taking small gliding steps through the darkness. All halls lead somewhere. Where there is a way in, there is a way out...

It seemed as if she had been walking a long ways when the wall ended abruptly and a draft of cold air blew past her cheek...far below her, she heard noises. The scrape of boots, the distant sound of voices. A flickering light brushed the wall ever so faintly, and she saw that she stood at the top of a great black well, a shaft twenty feet across plunging deep into the earth. Huge stones had been set into the curving walls as steps, circling down...man holding the torch climbed into her sight, his companion beside him...They started down the hall in the direction Arya had come, past the room with the monsters...The man with the torch pushed at something. Arya heard a deep rumbling. A huge slab of rock, red in the torchlight, slid down out of the ceiling with a resounding crash that almost made her cry out. Where the entry to the well had been was nothing but stone, solid and unbroken...She let them get a long way ahead, then went creeping after them....Arya could still see the light of the torch, a smoking star that bid her follow. Twice it seemed to disappear, but she kept on straight, and both times she found herself at the top of steep, narrow stairs, the torch glimmering far below her. She hurried after it, down and down. Once she stumbled over a rock and fell against the wall, and her hand found raw earth supported by timbers, whereas before the tunnel had been dressed stone.

She must have crept after them for miles. Finally they were gone, but there was no place to go but forward. She found the wall again and followed,...At the end she was knee-deep in foul-smelling water,...She found herself standing at the mouth of a sewer where it emptied into the river...She was miles from the castle,

(AGoT Ch 32 Arya III)

This shows us that Varys had the means to smuggle a babe into/ out of the nursery undetected, before (or during) the death of Elia and the babes.

Later, Tyrion makes his way from the Kitchen Keep to the dragon room on an assignation with Shae

Quote

Down he went, to the ground floor and beyond, to emerge in a gloomy cellar with a vaulted stone ceiling. Much of the castle was connected underground, and the Kitchen Keep was no exception. Tyrion waddled along a long dark passageway until he found the door he wanted, and pushed through.

Within, the dragon skulls were waiting, and so was Shae.

(ASoS Ch 58 Tyrion VII)

So we know that the secret route out of Maegor's Holdfast also connects to the service tunnels that connect the Kitchen Keep with Maegor's Holdfast, via the dragon cellar. And these tunnels were not destroyed with the old Hand's Tower.

The black cat knows the whole castle and can go anywhere inside the walls the rats can. Cats catch rats and birds, and the one-eared tom is associated with both.

Before he leads Arya to the nursey he lets us know how far from the guards barracks they are

Quote

He had run her halfway across the castle; twice around the Tower of the Hand, across the inner bailey, through the stables, down the serpentine steps, past the small kitchen and the pig yard and the barracks of the gold cloaks, along the base of the river wall and up more steps and back and forth over Traitor’s Walk, and then down again and through a gate and around a well and in and out of strange buildings until Arya didn’t know where she was.

(AGoT Ch 32 Arya III)

In the Siege of King's Landing, Gregor scales the wall of the Red Keep and hoists Tywin's banner over the guard's barracks.

Before he shows Arya the way out of the Red Keep, the Tom shows her the way from the Goldcloak's barracks in.

Quote

He had run her halfway across the castle; twice around the Tower of the Hand, across the inner bailey, through the stables, down the serpentine steps, past the small kitchen and the pig yard and the barracks of the gold cloaks, along the base of the river wall and up more steps and back and forth over Traitor’s Walk, and then down again and through a gate and around a well and in and out of strange buildings until Arya didn’t know where she was.

Now at last she had him. High walls pressed close on either side, and ahead was a blank windowless mass of stone.

(AGoT Ch 32 Arya III)

 The cat shows us how far Gregor was from the nursery, the last time anyone had sighted him during the sack. It also informs Arya's escape from the Red Keep.

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She pretended she was chasing cats … except she was the cat now, and if they caught her, they would kill her.

Moving between buildings and over walls, keeping stone to her back wherever possible so no one could surprise her, Arya reached the stables almost without incident...

Arya realized with a sudden sick dread that the castle gates would be closed. Even the postern doors would likely be guarded...But there was another way out of the castle …

Could she find the room with the monsters again? She wasn’t certain, yet she knew she had to try...she crept to the far end of the stable. Unlatching the back door, she peeked out anxiously. She could hear the distant sound of swordplay, and the shivery wail of a man screaming in pain across the bailey. She would need to go down the serpentine steps, past the small kitchen and the pig yard, that was how she’d gone last time, chasing the black tomcat … only that would take her right past the barracks of the gold cloaks. She couldn’t go that way. Arya tried to think of another way. If she crossed to the other side of the castle, she could creep along the river wall and through the little godswood … but first she’d have to cross the yard, in the plain view of the guards on the walls...

By the time she reached the shadow of the royal sept on the far side of the yard, Arya was cold with sweat, but no one had raised the hue and cry.

The sept was open and empty... She...left by a back window. Sneaking back to the alley where she had cornered the one-eared tom was easy, but after that she got lost.

She crawled in and out of windows, hopped over walls, and felt her way through dark cellars, quiet as a shadow. Once she heard a woman weeping. It took her more than an hour to find the low narrow window that slanted down to the dungeon where the monsters waited.

(AGoT Ch 50 Arya IV)

The next time we see the tom-cat, is when Sansa leaves Maegor's Holdfast to visit Dontos in the Godswood.

Quote

she darted across the undefended drawbridge. In the yard, men were buckling on swordbelts and cinching the saddles of their horses. She glimpsed Ser Preston near the stables with three others of the Kingsguard, white cloaks bright as the moon as they helped Joffrey into his armor. ...The noise receded as she moved deeper into the castle, never daring to look back for fear that Joffrey might be watching … or worse, following. The serpentine steps twisted ahead, striped by bars of flickering light from the narrow windows above. Sansa was panting by the time she reached the top. She ran down a shadowy colonnade and pressed herself against a wall to catch her breath. When something brushed against her leg, she almost jumped out of her skin, but it was only a cat, a ragged black tom with a chewed-off ear. The creature spit at her and leapt away.

By the time she reached the godswood, the noises had faded to a faint rattle of steel and a distant shouting.

(ACoK Ch 18 Sansa II)

Later, Tyrion informs us there is a colonnade not far from the Throne room.

Quote

“Walk with me, Varys,” said Tyrion. They left through the king’s door behind the throne, the eunuch’s slippers whisking lightly over the stone...They made their way down a deserted colonnade.

(ACoK Ch 25 Tyrion VI)

So the black cat shows us the way from the throne room to the nursery. 

Then Kevan shows us the way from the throne room to the nursery

Quote

The three men walked together from the throne room. Outside the snow was swirling round the outer ward, a caged beast howling to be free. “Have you ever felt such cold?” asked Ser Harys.

“The time to speak of the cold,” said Grand Maester Pycelle, “is not when we are standing out in it.” He made his slow way across the outer ward, back to his chambers.

The others lingered for a moment on the throne room steps...

Ser Kevan ...  yanked his gloves on and set off across the yard, leaning hard into the wind as his cloak snapped and swirled behind him.
The dry moat surrounding Maegor’s Holdfast was three feet deep in snow ...the only way in or out of Maegor’s was across the drawbridge that spanned that moat...Kevan Lannister hung his snow-sodden cloak inside his solar...Outside the wind was rising, clawing at the shutters of his chamber...he left his swordbelt hanging on the back of his chair. Only the knights of the Kingsguard were permitted swords in Tommen’s presence.

Ser Boros Blount was in attendance on the boy king and his mother when Ser Kevan entered the royal chambers.

(ADwD Epilogue)

When he arrives at Tommen's quarters, Tommen and Cersei tell him that the bad cat can get from the nursery to the rookery without crossing the dry moat or attracting Meryn Trant's notice.

Quote

“The bad cat was outside my window last night,” he informed Kevan at one point, “but Ser Pounce hissed at him and he ran off across the roofs.”

“The bad cat?” Ser Kevan said, amused...Cersei told him. “A filthy thing, and foul-tempered. He clawed Joff’s hand once.” She made a face. “The cats keep the rats down, I know, but that one … he’s been known to attack ravens in the rookery.”

(ADwD Epilogue)

When Tyrion had been Hand, he had once walked from the rookery to the gates of Maegor's Holdfast on his way back to his solar in the old Tower of the Hand, after visiting Pycelle.

Quote

In the airy chambers beneath the rookery, ... Pycelle served the pontifications...

[After, Tyrion] waddled out into the lower bailey; his stunted legs complained of the steps...Guardsmen walked the walls, and knights and men-at-arms were training with blunted weapons. Nearby, Bronn sat on the lip of a well...They set off across the bailey, Bronn matching his long stride to Tyrion’s short one...they passed under the shadow of a covered walkway between two towers...

Tyrion struggled up the serpentine steps. As he limped across the outer yard, he heard the portcullis rattling up. His sister and a large party were waiting by the main gate.

 

(ACoK Ch 17 Tyrion IV)

Cersei was leaving the Red Keep to inspect the city walls. Tyrion returned to his solar in the old Tower of the Hand. A covered walkway can be a colonnade, if the cover is supported by columns on at least one side.

Kevan makes his way to the Rookery from Maegor's Holdfast.

Quote

Trant had kept [the message boy] waiting out on the drawbridge rather than admit him into Maegor’s...Ser Kevan made his way across the inner ward

(ADwD Epilogue)

 When Kevan arrives at Maester Pycelle's chambers, he meets the white raven of winter, who preferred to roost on the maester's open window rather than settle in the rookery, because the bad cat was prowling.

Balerion the cat is a useful lesson that

Quote

All halls lead somewhere. Where there is a way in, there is a way out. 

 He acts like a vengeful ghost, haunting the scene to remind us there is more to Rhaenys's story than we have yet been told. Also to remind us there are more ways to get in and out of Maegor's Holdfast than Kevan knows. And possibly more ravens arriving at the Red Keep than Maester Pycelle ever read.

The black tom is also particularily associated with Arya and Syrio, in opposition to Varys (whose little birds and mice run inside the walls he stalks) and Tommen (through his own black kittens). I think the reason Tyrion often walks parallel paths with him (rather than Eddard or Sansa) is because he is the more inquisitive Hand, and less confined than Sansa, rather than because of any particular bond between him and the cat. I think Sansa and Joffrey's interactions with the cat are because they are children- the cat is more likely to be noticed by children, and more likely to appear for them- another hint that he was once a child's pet.

In the Song of Ice and Fire cats, especially kittens, perform unnaturally and, like one-eared characters, form tortured extended metaphors throughout the story which I won't go into, just want to point out that we know this cat is something special from the minute the guard tells Arya that he snatched a quail from Lord Tywin's hands.

I don't think he is a warg ... yet. But Arya went to Braavos (home of the Sealord's cat) and she became Cat, and learnt when she was blind to warg the sight of cats. She knows him and animals remember her even when she wears a new face (presumably because they see what is there, and not just what they expect to see).

So there is a lot that foreshadows Arya warging into the bad cat in the future.

[Bowen Marsh]

The black cat is not necessarily being controlled but it is possible for a weak bond to have existed between he and Rhaenys.  The last thoughts coming through that bond from Rhaenys had to be fear and anger.   Those last thoughts imprinted themselves in the cat and that is why he is ill-tempered.  Havilland's cats had psychic power.  Maybe this cat does too.  Ghost will end up the same way.  That white wolf will start attacking every black brother he sees.

[TheLastWolf]

15 hours ago, Bowen Marsh said:

Ghost will end up the same way.  That white wolf will start attacking every black brother he sees.

Your prejudiced opinion is not such a surprise considering your 'name', @Bowen Marsh

21 hours ago, Walda said:

(AGoT Ch 32 Arya III)

Syrio tasked Arya with cat-catching so she could learn the secret ways of the Red Keep. And so GRRM can show us paths through the Red Keep without reading like a sat-nav.

When Arya chased this cat she learned there was a secret path from the nursery in Maegor's Holdfast out of the Red Keep. to the Blackwater

(AGoT Ch 32 Arya III)

This shows us that Varys had the means to smuggle a babe into/ out of the nursery undetected, before (or during) the death of Elia and the babes.

Later, Tyrion makes his way from the Kitchen Keep to the dragon room on an assignation with Shae

(ASoS Ch 58 Tyrion VII)

So we know that the secret route out of Maegor's Holdfast also connects to the service tunnels that connect the Kitchen Keep with Maegor's Holdfast, via the dragon cellar. And these tunnels were not destroyed with the old Hand's Tower.

The black cat knows the whole castle and can go anywhere inside the walls the rats can. Cats catch rats and birds, and the one-eared tom is associated with both.

Before he leads Arya to the nursey he lets us know how far from the guards barracks they are

(AGoT Ch 32 Arya III)

In the Siege of King's Landing, Gregor scales the wall of the Red Keep and hoists Tywin's banner over the guard's barracks.

Before he shows Arya the way out of the Red Keep, the Tom shows her the way from the Goldcloak's barracks in.

(AGoT Ch 32 Arya III)

 The cat shows us how far Gregor was from the nursery, the last time anyone had sighted him during the sack. It also informs Arya's escape from the Red Keep.

(AGoT Ch 50 Arya IV)

The next time we see the tom-cat, is when Sansa leaves Maegor's Holdfast to visit Dontos in the Godswood.

(ACoK Ch 18 Sansa II)

Later, Tyrion informs us there is a colonnade not far from the Throne room.

(ACoK Ch 25 Tyrion VI)

So the black cat shows us the way from the throne room to the nursery. 

Then Kevan shows us the way from the throne room to the nursery

(ADwD Epilogue)

When he arrives at Tommen's quarters, Tommen and Cersei tell him that the bad cat can get from the nursery to the rookery without crossing the dry moat or attracting Meryn Trant's notice.

(ADwD Epilogue)

When Tyrion had been Hand, he had once walked from the rookery to the gates of Maegor's Holdfast on his way back to his solar in the old Tower of the Hand, after visiting Pycelle.

 

(ACoK Ch 17 Tyrion IV)

Cersei was leaving the Red Keep to inspect the city walls. Tyrion returned to his solar in the old Tower of the Hand. A covered walkway can be a colonnade, if the cover is supported by columns on at least one side.

Kevan makes his way to the Rookery from Maegor's Holdfast.

(ADwD Epilogue)

 When Kevan arrives at Maester Pycelle's chambers, he meets the white raven of winter, who preferred to roost on the maester's open window rather than settle in the rookery, because the bad cat was prowling.

Balerion the cat is a useful lesson that

 He acts like a vengeful ghost, haunting the scene to remind us there is more to Rhaenys's story than we have yet been told. Also to remind us there are more ways to get in and out of Maegor's Holdfast than Kevan knows. And possibly more ravens arriving at the Red Keep than Maester Pycelle ever read.

The black tom is also particularily associated with Arya and Syrio, in opposition to Varys (whose little birds and mice run inside the walls he stalks) and Tommen (through his own black kittens). I think the reason Tyrion often walks parallel paths with him (rather than Eddard or Sansa) is because he is the more inquisitive Hand, and less confined than Sansa, rather than because of any particular bond between him and the cat. I think Sansa and Joffrey's interactions with the cat are because they are children- the cat is more likely to be noticed by children, and more likely to appear for them- another hint that he was once a child's pet.

In the Song of Ice and Fire cats, especially kittens, perform unnaturally and, like one-eared characters, form tortured extended metaphors throughout the story which I won't go into, just want to point out that we know this cat is something special from the minute the guard tells Arya that he snatched a quail from Lord Tywin's hands.

I don't think he is a warg ... yet. But Arya went to Braavos (home of the Sealord's cat) and she became Cat, and learnt when she was blind to warg the sight of cats. She knows him and animals remember her even when she wears a new face (presumably because they see what is there, and not just what they expect to see).

So there is a lot that foreshadows Arya warging into the bad cat in the future.

[BlackLightning]

On 8/28/2020 at 1:36 AM, The Green Bard said:

Err, Cat did that, but I digress.  I'll also say that Jaime is only obvious because we've over-analyzed this series so much that there is very little that GRRM could write that will surprise everyone.  To a majority, it would be a surprise or shock if Jaime killed her.  That said, I am not arguing it will happen, just that I think you are reaching with that particular argument.

I do agree with your argument that Tyrion is not likely to kill Cersei after he already had the satisfaction of killing Tywin.

Cat started the war? Are you really saying that Cat started the War of the Five Kings?

Not the person who set hundreds of armed men and their dogs on civilians in other territories where they had no power? Not the person who violated guest right by trying to kill his host's child? Not the people who were planning to steal the throne and rob the king's brothers by putting their bastard children on the throne? Not the person who armed the wildlings of the Vale with steel and let them run amok? Not the person who had the opportunity to stop further escalation but failed because their sense of honor (or should I say pride) prevented them from making common cause with an ally.

Oh but Catelyn definitely started the war.

[The Green Bard]

1 hour ago, BlackLightning said:

Cat started the war? Are you really saying that Cat started the War of the Five Kings?

It was the provocation that sent Tywin's armies into the field.  Right after she had the internal thought that it cannot come to war.  I don't know how else to define it.  She knew what the reaction would be and she did it anyway.  It doesn't mean that Tywin is a better person than her, or that I am defending his actions, nor Jaime's.  

However, Jaime's act in KL did not start a war.  Tywin's army was already in the field.  Or are you saying that he started the war by throwing Bran.  I guess I can at least grant that argument via the butterfly effect. 

But in terms of direct effect, yeah, Cat started the war.  Tywin entered the field as a direct result of her actions ... she kidnapped his son ... in public.  Jaime's act with attempting to kill Bran is more reprehensible, but it was a mystery until he admitted it to her much later (save for Bran subconsciously remembering in dreams).  Cat's actions were just as rash and stupid, though not heinous, but, most importantly, they were public. 

She also should have headed back to King's landing, not the vale, but that is just my opinion.

[BlackLightning]

6 minutes ago, The Green Bard said:

It was the provocation that sent Tywin's armies into the field.  Right after she had the internal thought that it cannot come to war.  I don't know how else to define it.  She knew what the reaction would be and she did it anyway.  It doesn't mean that Tywin is a better person than her, or that I am defending his actions, nor Jaime's.  

However, Jaime's act in KL did not start a war.  Tywin's army was already in the field.  Or are you saying that he started the war by throwing Bran.  I guess I can at least grant that argument via the butterfly effect. 

But in terms of direct effect, yeah, Cat started the war.  Tywin entered the field as a direct result of her actions ... she kidnapped his son ... in public.  Jaime's act with attempting to kill Bran is more reprehensible, but it was a mystery until he admitted it to her much later (save for Bran subconsciously remembering in dreams).  Cat's actions were just as rash and stupid, though not heinous, but, most importantly, they were public. 

She also should have headed back to King's landing, not the vale, but that is just my opinion.

So...

1. If you step on my foot while passing by, it's okay for me to pick up a gun and shoot me in the face?
2. If I wear a form-fitting outfit and flirt with you, is it okay for you to rape me?

Really. I want to know your answers to those questions. While you're at it, answer this question:

1. Was Tywin forced into sending armies into the Riverlands? Keep in mind that Tywin sent armies against towns and villages inhabited by unarmed civilians in peacetime.

And stop saying kidnapping. Catelyn did not kidnap Tyrion. She arrested him. If she did so privately, then you can make the argument that Tywin thought Tyrion was kidnapped. But Catelyn acted publicly and more than just a few noble men joined her which tells you what? What she was doing was not unreasonable nor unusual. The fact that Catelyn announced exactly what she was arresting Tyrion for makes Tywin look even worse.

This is confirmed later in the book when Tyrion reunites with his father and his father is so displeased that Tyrion realizes that his father was looking for an excuse to go to war.

If she headed back to King's Landing, she would've been captured and harmed. As we know it, Tywin had sent raiders up and down the Kingsroad. Going to the Vale was wise and clever...unfortunately, it didn't pan out because Lysa was a nutcase.

[The Green Bard]

20 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

And stop saying kidnapping. Catelyn did not kidnap Tyrion. She arrested him. If she did so privately, then you can make the argument that Tywin thought Tyrion was kidnapped. But Catelyn acted publicly and more than just a few noble men joined her which tells you what?

It tells me that there are people with more honor or bloodlust than sense (but we knew that already).  Or, that these men knew which side of the commencing war they would be on.  The Freys were not among those who remained in her retinue, notably. 

However, the premise of your objection to my language (FWIW I'd appreciate if you wouldn't utilise the imperative next time you want me to change my opinion or behavior, I would think a suggestion or an "I would" is more appropriate discourse and more effective besides) is precisely why I said she should have gone to King's Landing.  She had no authority in the vale or the Riverlands.  If she was using her authority as Lady of Winterfell, she should have taken him to Winterfell. If she was intending to use Robert's authority or Ned's authority as his hand, she should have delivered him to King's Landing.  In each of these cases, you would be right, it would be the long arm of the law.  As it happens, I don't believe you have the right of it.  

The minute she went to the vale, I define it to be kidnapping.  Recall that right to the end she wanted him not to be given a trial, she wanted him held hostage.  Further, after the trial, she ought to have just taken him hostage because the war had started by then.  It's kind of ridiculous that he was let go.

20 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

• If you step on my foot while passing by, it's okay for me to pick up a gun and shoot me in the face?
• If I wear a form-fitting outfit and flirt with you, is it okay for you to rape me?

No, and No.  I was quite clear that I am not defending the actions of Jaime or Tywin.

However, actions have consequences.  The consequence of her action was clear ... war.  Knowing who Tywin Lannister is, having heard "The Rains of Castamere," she should have expected this consequence.  

While I think your analogs not to be analogous at all, I'll still address the first. 

I would have no expectation that the consequence of stepping on your foot on purpose (assuming you mean on purpose because Catelyn purposely abducted Tyrion) would have the result of being shot...  unless, I knew you to be the same type of a*****e that Tywin Lannister is.  If I knew you were like him, I would make sure that any aggression I took against you would be done in a way as to insulate myself from the potential consequences (basically I'd kill / shoot you first, then step on your foot, or do nothing).

That is why Ned used the shield of the King' justice to send a force against the mountain's men.  He was wrong about his insulation, but, c'est la vie.

Not gonna go down a rape rabbithole, my answer of no will have to suffice.

[TheLastWolf]

Quote

Tommen had been thinking of the purrfect gift for a while

  Quote

“We shall have to send the darling boy a gift,” the queen declared. “Won’t we, Tommen?”

“We could send him a kitten.”

(AFfC Ch16 Jaime II)

Note that it is Jaime who hears Tommen's contribution, not Cersei.

A short while later...

  Quote

“Yes, but I’m the king. Margaery says that everyone has to do what the king says. I want my white courser saddled on the morrow so Ser Loras can teach me how to joust. I want a kitten too, and I don’t want to eat beets.” He crossed his arms.

(AFfC Ch 24 Cersei V)

After his mother had spoken her piece on his attempt to rule

  Quote

Tommen looked close to tears. “Can I still have a kitten?”

“Perhaps,” the queen allowed. “So long as I hear no more nonsense about jousting. Can you promise me that?”

(AFfC Ch 24 Cersei V)

He had his Uncle Jaime present to advocate for him, and he chose to ask mama when she was naked in the bath (Most vulnerable and least likely to attack).

Later

  Quote

her son was fast asleep, but Cersei looked in upon him before seeking her own bed. She was surprised to find three black kittens cuddled up beside him. “Where did those come from?” she asked Ser Meryn Trant, outside the royal bedchamber.

“The little queen gave them to him. She only meant to give him one, but he couldn’t decide which one he liked the best.”

(AFfC Ch 24 Cersei V)

Margarey was rewarding Tommen for sticking up to his mother like she told him to on these three small matters so dear to his heart. Cersei vaugely allowed but didn't deliver a kitten to shut him up about Ser Loras. Sneaky.

Also, black kittens might be the bastards of Rhaenys's Baelrion, "The real king of this castle"

Wow @Walda, I totally forgot that the Tommen's kittens were/are black. And that link to Balerion, our BAD tomcat is great.

Opens up a whole new range of possibilities.

Whoever is in Balerion has access to all the info that even Varys couldn't get (silent little birds). 

And if those 3 with tommen are sired by Balerion, then its possible they are extensions too. like how there was a theory about Selenei of Lys/Larra Rogare passing herself onto Shiera/Quaithe during birth.

[TheLastWolf]

Pycelle is dead, but his secrets are not. If Balerion is warged by someone, there are a lot of secrets of KL and the Red keep that may come into the light. I'll put together a compilation of them soon

 

[Annalee]

On 7/24/2020 at 4:33 AM, szbszig said:

I absolutely love the idea that he's Balerion, the late little Rhaenys's pet cat. But I don't want him turning out to be anything or anyone else, namely another skinchanger for example.

Mr. Martin is being sentimental.  The cat is Balerion.  He was there when his princess was murdered.  Ravens are easy targets for an aging cat.