US Politics: Bounties from a Jericho Walk

[The Anti-Targ]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

Are penguins white human men?

No?

Yeah, probably then. Plus I've got to guess the TSA isn't exactly in the most friendly of moods, these days. 

I don't think that's fair on the TSA. They also don't discriminate against white human women, because despite being a bit emotional [sarcasm!!!] they are not really likely to be Islamic terrorist...though they do vote Democrat in higher numbers than the "ideal human"...hmmm maybe they should be on the TSA watch list.

[GrimTuesday]

5 hours ago, Triskele said:

But dude, this is really the entire point that Kal has been making no matter what Tywin is emitting right now.  

Both of them would defend an expansion of healthcare.  Both them would at least maybe deny a really conservative judge (even if they didn't always).

The system is as we find it, and getting a seriously liberal US Senator into WV or Missou is a heavy lift.

Heh, I think that Jay Rockefeller was a crazy fluke in hindsight.  Where have ye gone?

I don't think that I said anywhere that McGrath wouldn't be an upgrade over McConnell, that would be a dumb thing to say, I'm talking about McGrath vs Booker. This is a primary, Of course I am going to advocate for the left most candidate, and even after the primary I will continue to voice my displeasure with any democratic politician who I feel are letting us down because this is a predominately Democratic space. I tailor my messaging to the audience I am talking to.

4 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Have they achieved more liberal goals of substance than you? Much as I like the former and dislike the latter, the truth is they have. And that goes for pretty much all of us. And like I said, I really dislike one of the two people in question. 

Being a moderate or a pragmatist or a centrist is not a bad thing. Virtue signaling while achieving nothing is.

Right wing Democrats. Hmm. There could be a few. But being a moderate is not the same as being right wing, and frankly I do not appreciate one of my former bosses getting hit with this because she works 16-18 hours a day, much harder than pretty much any of us. And she's to the left of a lot of you. But she's not a fool, and knows not to take foolish votes that go no where and only hurt you.

I'm sure Doug Jones wishes he could vote exactly how his heart tells him. But he can't always do that. That's politics, be it in a book club with just five friends or on the floor of the United States Senate. Don't be a child about such things. 

Go read about Doug Jones' greatest legal accomplishment, and please come back here and complain to me about his insufficient liberalism, but first ask yourself if you ever did anything like that.

Claire, not Clara, voted the way she did because she knew she was out kicking her coverage and never should have been in the Senate to begin with. To win a second term is something that should be shown a great deal of respect. And while you may have felt she was too moderate, or a conservative, or a corporate tool, or whatever, the Honorable Senator from Missouri was there most of the time when she was asked to be there, even if it was not necessarily in her best personal interests.

I have no ill will against her, even if of course I can find many things I disagree with her about. You need to let red state Democrats have some space to operate. How else do you expect things to change and get better.

I just dislike Manchin because I think he actively hurts the party. But "conservative, corporate Senators like Doug Jones or Claire MaCaskill?" I'd break bread with them any day of the week. 

They have certainly achieved more that I have, the way we are going is a continuation of the work that these people have done, the problem becomes when those people become an impediment to the furtherance of those goals. McCaskill and her type certainly played a meaningful and important role, but they seem to operate under the impression that we have won and that to push further at any speed greater than crawl would be a detriment. That is what I have a problem with.

I wasn't criticizing Doug Jones, I specifically said that he has to do what he has to do because he is from Alabama and I can respect that. Now, if Doug Jones goes on MSNBC after he gets bounced in November and talks about how universal healthcare is bullshit and sits there and punches left, I'm going to have a massive fucking problem with that, but for now, I'm cool with him (relatively).

I have less of a problem with how McCaskill voted in the Senate than what she is doing now that she is out of office. I mean, I have issues with just about every senator, Sanders included, but I recognize the necessity of certain compromises in electoral politics, but when you get bounced and then go hippy punching (do we have a equivalent term these days?) to the left, that shows your true colors.

[Fragile Bird]

So Amy won.

[Bonnot OG]

The trump democrat won? Pathetic. 

[Bonnot OG]

It’s amazing how the center right moderates here still are peddling the same bullshit pragmatic talk they pedaled for the past 3-4 years and justify shit democrats being put in power and keep justifying right wing democrats voting with republicans because compromis needs to be a thing even though it’s evident the Republican Party is a White supremacist party okay with fascists and nazis and they never compromise with anything democrats bring forward that isn’t right of center and more inline with their views than those on the left.

 

[Gorn]

5 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Have they achieved more liberal goals of substance than you? Much as I like the former and dislike the latter, the truth is they have. And that goes for pretty much all of us. And like I said, I really dislike one of the two people in question. 

This reminds me of Terry Goodkind's fans. "How many best-selling books did you publish? None, you say? Well STFU then!"

[Bonnot OG]

13 hours ago, HoodedCrow said:

I haven’t read Sun Tzu lately, but isn’t letting your enemy that Is harming itself to carry on...rough translation.

Purity for dems should be...do they wear a mask or not!

Showing Dems are a worthless party just clinging onto power by saying we may be shit but at least we aren’t fascist, we just work with them to pass some laws. Our rapist candidate that’s a racist is slightly less predatory and less bigoted than theirs. 
 

it’s amazing how liberals justify the shit of the shit in their party. A cult no better than the republican cult. 

[BigFatCoward]

21 minutes ago, Bonnot OG said:

It’s amazing how the center right moderates here still are peddling the same bullshit pragmatic talk they pedaled for the past 3-4 years and justify shit democrats being put in power and keep justifying right wing democrats voting with republicans because compromis needs to be a thing even though it’s evident the Republican Party is a White supremacist party okay with fascists and nazis and they never compromise with anything democrats bring forward that isn’t right of center and more inline with their views than those on the left.

 

Longest sentence ever.

[Raja]

Don't remember if it was here or if it was in the covid thread - but someone brought up the sophistication of the health systems among the western countries - reading this piece by the AP, my impression is that the public health system in the US is not that at all

Hollowed out public health system faces more cuts and virus

Quote

Since 2010, spending for state public health departments has dropped by 16% per capita and spending for local health departments has fallen by 18%, according to a KHN and Associated Press analysis of government spending on public health. At least 38,000 state and local public health jobs have disappeared since the 2008 recession, leaving a skeletal workforce for what was once viewed as one of the world’s top public health systems.

KHN, also known as Kaiser Health News, and AP interviewed more than 150 public health workers, policymakers and experts, analyzed spending records from hundreds of state and local health departments, and surveyed statehouses. On every level, the investigation found, the system is underfunded and under threat, unable to protect the nation’s health.

Jennifer Gottschalk, 42, works for the county as an environmental health supervisor. When the coronavirus struck, the county’s department was so short-staffed that her duties included overseeing campground and pool inspections, rodent control and sewage programs, while also supervising outbreak preparedness for a community of more than 425,000 people.

When Gottschalk and five colleagues fell ill with COVID-19, she found herself fielding calls about a COVID-19 case from her hospital bed, then working through her home isolation. She only stopped when her coughing was too severe to talk on calls.

You have to do what you have to do to get the job done,” Gottsalk said.

Now, after months of working with hardly a day off, she says the job is wearing on her. So many lab reports on coronavirus cases came in, the office fax machine broke. She faces a backlash from the community over coronavirus restrictions and there are countless angry phone calls.

The sad part, besides the obvious relegation of public health as something that can be put on the back burner, is that US Public Health schools graduate thousands of public health graduates every year. There are *lots* of public health schools and people with a Masters in Public Health - but these graduates don't go to the state health departments, or the local ones. From my own cohort, the majority of health policy/ management graduates went to Insurance companies or consultancy firms.

[Larry of the Lawn]

9 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Have they achieved more liberal goals of substance than you? Much as I like the former and dislike the latter, the truth is they have. And that goes for pretty much all of us. And like I said, I really dislike one of the two people in question. 

This is a bullshit argument.  Any moderate member of congress is going to have "achieved more liberal goals" than someone who isn't an elected official, by any metric that'd you'd use.  By this logic no voter can be more liberal than Joe Manchin.  Bullshit.  Oh you didn't once vote on an ACA related bill?  Because you're a citizen and not a fucking Senator?  Sorry, all congressional Dems are more liberal than you.  Weak sauce.

Quote

Being a moderate or a pragmatist or a centrist is not a bad thing. Virtue signaling while achieving nothing is.

More bullshit.  Anyone sharing a more leftist stance or criticizing moderates is now just virtue signalling?  This entire train of thought is laughably bad.  Politics isn't just something that happens in the voting booth or on the campaign trail.  There's also a difference between fetishising compromise and actual pragmatism.  

 

Quote

Right wing Democrats. Hmm. There could be a few. But being a moderate is not the same as being right wing, and frankly I do not appreciate one of my former bosses getting hit with this because she works 16-18 hours a day, pretty much harder than any of us.  And she's to the left of a lot of you. But she's not a fool, and knows not to take foolish votes that go no where and only hurt you.

I'm sure Doug Jones wishes he could vote exactly how his heart tells him. But he can't always do that. That's politics, be it in a book club with just five friends or on the floor of the United States Senate. Don't be a child about such things. 

Go read about Doug Jones' greatest legal accomplishment, and please come back here and complain to me about his insufficient liberalism, but first ask yourself if you ever did anything like that.

.

Look, I'm glad Doug Jones is a Senator from Alabama.  But asking a fucking internet poster what they've done that's more liberal than what Doug Jones has done has to be one of the dumbest fucking 'gotchas' I've seen in awhile.  

"Oh you haven't served in Congress?" Lol wtf dude

Quote

Claire, not Clara, voted the way she did because she knew she was out kicking her coverage and never should have been in the Senate to begin with. To win a second term is something that should be shown a great deal of respect. And while you may have felt she was too moderate, or a conservative, or a corporate tool, or whatever, the Honorable Senator from Missouri was there most of the time when she was asked to be there, even if it was not necessarily in her best personal interests.

Ewwwww.  A second term is worthy of respect?  Maybe these fuckers could vote how they wanted if they weren't more interested in getting re-elected.  She showed up to her well-paying job?  Gold star! 

.  

Quote

I have no ill will against her, even if of course I can find many things I disagree with her about. You need to let red state Democrats have some space to operate. How else do you expect things to change and get better.

I just dislike Manchin because I think he actively hurts the party. But "conservative, corporate Senators like Doug Jones or Claire MaCaskill?" I'd break bread with them any day of the week. 

ETA:

I'd do so with a lot of Republicans too. The horror, I know

 This is just a bunch of authority, status-quo, corporate, worship.  No one needs to 'break bread' or have a beer or hang out with these people.  They aren't here to be our friends, they're supposed to work for us.  They're elected public officials.  I doubt Amy Klobuchar or Claire McCaskill works any harder than any grocery store clerk or retail worker.  These are excuses for why Democrats are awesome and any criticism that comes from the left of you is invalid from the start.  

Which is of course, 100% trash.

 

[Martell Spy]

It's not as simple as Biden has won so the moderates have captured the party and all must fall in line. Progressive challengers continue to defeat old moderate insiders.  AOC had a hand in this. And there's speculation that she may challenge Schumer in 2022.

Quote

Rep. Eliot Engel, who has served in Congress since 1989 and chairs the powerful House Foreign Relations Committee, lost his seat in a stunning upset from Jamaal Bowman, a former middle school principal in the Bronx and first-time political candidate running as a progressive reformer on a platform of increasing investment in education, healthcare, and green energy. 

The current 16th District that Engel represents includes parts of the Bronx and Westchester County, including the suburbs of Yonkers, Scarsdale, and New Rochelle.

Jamaal Bowman unseats long-time congressman Eliot Engel in a major upset in New York's 16th Congressional District

https://www.businessinsider.com/eliot-engel-vs-jamaal-bowman-new-yorks-16th-district-results-2020-6

 

Also...

Oklahoma voters approve Medicaid expansion as coronavirus cases climb
The state is the first to expand Medicaid during the pandemic.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/01/oklahoma-expand-medicaid-pandemic-346681

Quote

 

Oklahoma voters on Tuesday narrowly approved a ballot measure to extend Medicaid to tens of thousands of poor adults, making their state the first to expand government-backed health insurance during the pandemic.

The vote, which passed with 50.5 percent support, also throws a wrench in the Trump administration's plan to make Oklahoma the first state to receive its permission to cap Medicaid spending, a longtime goal of conservatives hoping to constrain the safety-net entitlement program.

 

 

[Bonnot OG]

36 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:

This is a bullshit argument.  Any moderate member of congress is going to have "achieved more liberal goals" than someone who isn't an elected official, by any metric that'd you'd use.  By this logic no voter can be more liberal than Joe Manchin.  Bullshit.  Oh you didn't once vote on an ACA related bill?  Because you're a citizen and not a fucking Senator?  Sorry, all congressional Dems are more liberal than you.  Weak sauce.

More bullshit.  Anyone sharing a more leftist stance or criticizing moderates is now just virtue signalling?  This entire train of thought is laughably bad.  Politics isn't just something that happens in the voting booth or on the campaign trail.  There's also a difference between fetishising compromise and actual pragmatism.  

 

Look, I'm glad Doug Jones is a Senator from Alabama.  But asking a fucking internet poster what they've done that's more liberal than what Doug Jones has done has to be one of the dumbest fucking 'gotchas' I've seen in awhile.  

"Oh you haven't served in Congress?" Lol wtf dude

Ewwwww.  A second term is worthy of respect?  Maybe these fuckers could vote how they wanted if they weren't more interested in getting re-elected.  She showed up to her well-paying job?  Gold star! 

.  

 This is just a bunch of authority, status-quo, corporate, worship.  No one needs to 'break bread' or have a beer or hang out with these people.  They aren't here to be our friends, they're supposed to work for us.  They're elected public officials.  I doubt Amy Klobuchar or Claire McCaskill works any harder than any grocery store clerk or retail worker.  These are excuses for why Democrats are awesome and any criticism that comes from the left of you is invalid from the start.  

Which is of course, 100% trash.

 

Bingo. It’s something else how reactionary some liberals become when democrats are criticized eh?

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

10 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

I don't think that's fair on the TSA. They also don't discriminate against white human women, because despite being a bit emotional [sarcasm!!!] they are not really likely to be Islamic terrorist...though they do vote Democrat in higher numbers than the "ideal human"...hmmm maybe they should be on the TSA watch list.

Eh, I know a lot of white women who felt like they were sexually assaulted by the TSA. And that really just applies to all women, regardless of ethnicity. Some of the things your friends will tell you make you pause and say"WTF?"

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

6 hours ago, GrimTuesday said:

They have certainly achieved more that I have, the way we are going is a continuation of the work that these people have done, the problem becomes when those people become an impediment to the furtherance of those goals. McCaskill and her type certainly played a meaningful and important role, but they seem to operate under the impression that we have won and that to push further at any speed greater than crawl would be a detriment. That is what I have a problem with.

I wasn't criticizing Doug Jones, I specifically said that he has to do what he has to do because he is from Alabama and I can respect that. Now, if Doug Jones goes on MSNBC after he gets bounced in November and talks about how universal healthcare is bullshit and sits there and punches left, I'm going to have a massive fucking problem with that, but for now, I'm cool with him (relatively).

I have less of a problem with how McCaskill voted in the Senate than what she is doing now that she is out of office. I mean, I have issues with just about every senator, Sanders included, but I recognize the necessity of certain compromises in electoral politics, but when you get bounced and then go hippy punching (do we have a equivalent term these days?) to the left, that shows your true colors.

What's the difference between "Clara" operating in her conservative state than Doug working in his? 

Piss on liberals from liberal places who don't act like liberals. That's fair. But the ones surviving in red states, afford them the fact that they will need to take positions you may not like. Trust me, they may not like them either. But sometimes you got to do it to keep your seat. 

1 hour ago, larrytheimp said:

This is a bullshit argument.  Any moderate member of congress is going to have "achieved more liberal goals" than someone who isn't an elected official, by any metric that'd you'd use.  By this logic no voter can be more liberal than Joe Manchin.  Bullshit.  Oh you didn't once vote on an ACA related bill?  Because you're a citizen and not a fucking Senator?  Sorry, all congressional Dems are more liberal than you.  Weak sauce.

More bullshit.  Anyone sharing a more leftist stance or criticizing moderates is now just virtue signalling?  This entire train of thought is laughably bad.  Politics isn't just something that happens in the voting booth or on the campaign trail.  There's also a difference between fetishising compromise and actual pragmatism.  

 

Look, I'm glad Doug Jones is a Senator from Alabama.  But asking a fucking internet poster what they've done that's more liberal than what Doug Jones has done has to be one of the dumbest fucking 'gotchas' I've seen in awhile.  

"Oh you haven't served in Congress?" Lol wtf dude

Ewwwww.  A second term is worthy of respect?  Maybe these fuckers could vote how they wanted if they weren't more interested in getting re-elected.  She showed up to her well-paying job?  Gold star! 

.  

 This is just a bunch of authority, status-quo, corporate, worship.  No one needs to 'break bread' or have a beer or hang out with these people.  They aren't here to be our friends, they're supposed to work for us.  They're elected public officials.  I doubt Amy Klobuchar or Claire McCaskill works any harder than any grocery store clerk or retail worker.  These are excuses for why Democrats are awesome and any criticism that comes from the left of you is invalid from the start.  

Which is of course, 100% trash.

 

This all just sounds like someone who needs to learn more about politics.

Nothing I said was bs. It's a hard truth you've got to eat. And you seem to not get that, or don't want to accept it.

And yes, those two, specifically, would work harder than just about anyone you'll ever meet.

ETA: Also, well paying is relative. They're actually all grossly underpaid. 

[BigFatCoward]

WTF, I can't link it but BBC are reporting that a woman was shot 4 times in the back after stealing a Nazi flag from someone's house in Oklahoma, which had been hung for OVER A YEAR. 

What happens even if Biden wins?  You still live in a country where 40% are stark raving mental. 

[Fragile Bird]

27 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

WTF, I can't link it but BBC are reporting that a woman was shot 4 times in the back after stealing a Nazi flag from someone's house in Oklahoma, which had been hung for OVER A YEAR. 

What happens even if Biden wins?  You still live in a country where 40% are stark raving mental. 

Quote

Garfield County Sheriff's office said the woman had been at a party nearby when she took one of two flags being flown outside Alexander Feaster's home.

Mr Feaster, 44, then reportedly shot her in the back with a semi-automatic rifle as she ran away.

The 26-year-old woman is expected to recover from her injuries and Mr Feaster is being held in custody.

Sherriff Jody Helm said the woman was found lying in a ditch with four gunshot wounds after deputies responded to a call early on Sunday morning.

Sherriff Helm initially suggested the woman had tried to steal the swastika-emblazoned flag for a dare, but in an interview with NBC News she said there was "conflicting information" surrounding the woman's motive.

An affidavit seen by NBC News says "several" cameras at Mr Feaster's home show he fired on the woman "without warning". A neighbour then moved a red pickup truck near the home to serve as a barricade, and a witness trained a rifle on the property as a precaution while waiting for deputies to arrive.

Mr Feaster was later taken into custody without incident. He has been charged with assault and battery with a deadly weapon, and shooting with intent to kill, and is due to appear in court on 9 July.

A neighbour told local radio KFOR that he had been flying the flags for around a year, and they had been snatched from his home a few times in the past. They added that he would occasionally dress up in black uniform with a red swastika armband - an outfit reminiscent of Nazi SS uniforms. But he was said to mostly keep to himself.

Another woman and friend of the victim said there had been "no problems" with Mr Feaster before, but that his flags were a cause for concern.

"I feel like these flags are a disaster waiting to happen," she told the Enid News and Eagle.

That's the whole story, but here's the link.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53247757

 

[Maithanet]

I assume Oklahoma has Stand Your Ground, right?  So didn't Mr. Feaster just lawfully protect his property from a criminal who was stealing?  

 

 I do not, under any circumstances support SYG.  This case seems like a great example of how terrible those laws are.  Nonetheless, there's a good chance that with a good (or even average) lawyer Feaster will never see prison.  

[Ran]

11 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

I assume Oklahoma has Stand Your Ground, right?  So didn't Mr. Feaster just lawfully protect his property from a criminal who was stealing?  

I saw discussion of this elsewhere and it seems everything is focused on fear of personal harm and self-defense. Shooting someone in the back who is at the edge of your property and is leaving probably doesn't count. Here is an article about the self-defense laws in Oklahoma.

 

[Maithanet]

7 minutes ago, Ran said:

I saw discussion of this elsewhere and it seems everything is focused on fear of personal harm and self-defense. Shooting someone in the back who is at the edge of your property and is leaving probably doesn't count. Here is an article about the self-defense laws in Oklahoma.

I must be mixing up the general wording of Stand Your Ground/Castle Doctrine laws.  I thought they extended beyond shooting someone who is attempting to break into your house to extend to anyone who is committing a crime on your property.  That must be some specific state law (probably Florida, although I'm not going to be bothered to check).  

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

7 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

I must be mixing up the general wording of Stand Your Ground/Castle Doctrine laws.  I thought they extended beyond shooting someone who is attempting to break into your house to extend to anyone who is committing a crime on your property.  That must be some specific state law (probably Florida, although I'm not going to be bothered to check).  

Well they do differ state to state, but reading a few websites on OK castle law doctrine, it seems like he's unlikely to get off. It wasn't an act of self defense and the property in question was not of any meaningful value. The mere act of being on his property is not going to justify shooting someone in the back as they ran from you, as they posed no threat at that point.