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Would Lady Stoneheart kill Olyvar or Perwyn Frey?

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It's something I'm not too sure about. One of the last realisations that Catelyn makes at the Red Wedding is the absence of the most loyal Freys to the North's cause. Perwyn, who risked his life to escort her across Westeros and back. Olyvar, that squire who was willing to abandon his family to stay with Robb. She realises that they're being kept away from the wedding so nobody would warn them. 

The big question for me is will she have retained that epiphany as Lady Stoneheart. I would be interested to see what would happen, because she might spare Olyvar at least, since he would never have done anything to her son, and she knew that long enough to be a long-term memory.

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I think she sees things in pretty low resolution and such details may be omitted. Even when she was alive she had some problems with perception, red wedding did not help.

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Posted (edited)

LS hanged Pod because he was Tyrion's squire and fought at the Blackwater and Hyle Hunt because he was part of Randyll Tarly's household. She refused to listen to anything Brienne had to say, when she owed her that much. It's not like she's a rational being.

Perwyn was at the siege of Riverrun. I imagine that alone might condemn him to death. 

Edited by Alexis-something-Rose

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4 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

LS hanged Pod because he was Tyrion's squire and fought at the Blackwater and Hyle Hunt because he was part of Randyll Tarly's household.

hello A-s-R ... ummmm, when did these hangings happen?  did i miss a chapter?

 

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Posted (edited)

They will hang.  She has a stone heart.

Stone is used to mean hardness.  Hard heart.  Pitiless.  And we cannot really talk about Lady Stoneheart without talking about the great stone beast which breathes shadow fire.  I believe this stone beast is Jon Snow.  He will come back from death with a heart made of stone and he will mercilessly deal with anybody who hurt the Starks until somebody finally stops him.  

Edited by Prince Rhaego's Soul

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Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, Yaya said:

hello A-s-R ... ummmm, when did these hangings happen?  did i miss a chapter?

It's Brienne's last chapter in AFfC, after Brienne refuses to make the choice between the noose and the sword, LS orders her, Pod and Hyle Hunt to be hanged. I imagine Hyle and Pod are detained right now while waiting for Brienne to return with Jaime, but here's the passage.

Brienne felt the hemp constricting, digging into her skin, jerking her chin upward. Ser Hyle was cursing them eloquently, but not the boy. Podrick never lifted his eyes, not even when his feet were jerked up off the ground. If this is another dream, it is time for me to awaken. If this is real, it is time for me to die. All she could see was Podrick, the noose around his thin neck, his legs twitching. Her mouth opened. Pod was kicking, choking, dying. Brienne sucked the air in desperately, even as the rope was strangling her. Nothing had ever hurt so much.
She screamed a word. (Brienne VIII, AFfC42)

Edited by Alexis-something-Rose

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i understand your posting now - sorry A-s-R - i thought that you typed that the deaths of Payne & Frey by hanging was a certainty.


personally i do not believe that LS let them all hang after Brienne's 'word'. 
in my opinion they would have been held as hostage prompting Brienne to seek out the Kingslayer.

 

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Difficult to say. If she can't recognize Olyvar innocence, I don't see how Jaime could have any chance. I believe she is some kind of justice. But not as blind as the Black Plague. She may not kill Olyvar. But she could use him anyway to trap others Freys.

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Missing Persons is fun.   The Red Wedding and all its after math is not.  That said, this is a good question.   I am reluctant to deny LSH's humanity in her new being.   It is that crown turning.  Over and over.  I would think that anyone who was loyal to Robb would be attached to whatever memories she's having in that crown turning.  She was utterly merciless in the hanging of Merrett Frey, which cannot be discounted.  She is vengeance, not justice.  Though she does seem to be extremely single minded in her methodical extermination of those she considers enemies she may find some sort of mercy for those who were proven loyal to Robb.  

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

LS hanged Pod because he was Tyrion's squire and fought at the Blackwater

We don't know that for sure. Brienne screamed "sword" meaning she'd kill Jaime so Pod must have been saved. 

oops didnt see your latter post sorry

Edited by TheLastWolf

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it is not important if podrick dies or gets saved in the next book. LS puts a noose around his neck and is ready to kill him as the reason mentioned by A-s-R is good enough.

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2 hours ago, broken one said:

it is not important if podrick dies or gets saved in the next book. LS puts a noose around his neck and is ready to kill him as the reason mentioned by A-s-R is good enough.

see this.

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When they executed Merrett Frey, she was asked if he was involved, and she nodded that he was.  This suggests that she has some interest in separating those involved from those that weren't.  So I think Olyvar and Perwyn might have a chance, especially as they will be protesting their innocence quite loudly.

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7 minutes ago, Nevets said:

When they executed Merrett Frey, she was asked if he was involved, and she nodded that he was.  This suggests that she has some interest in separating those involved from those that weren't.  So I think Olyvar and Perwyn might have a chance, especially as they will be protesting their innocence quite loudly.

good point. 

I just took impression merret would have been hanged anyway (like "ok, you were not there but we do not like freys"). it does not take much for them to decide to kill podrick. Or maybe it is the moment that matters, As the time passes they become more desperate and evil.  btw I love how it corresponds with real world partisans fighting for lost causes.

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17 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Missing Persons is fun.   The Red Wedding and all its after math is not.  That said, this is a good question.   I am reluctant to deny LSH's humanity in her new being.   It is that crown turning.  Over and over.  I would think that anyone who was loyal to Robb would be attached to whatever memories she's having in that crown turning.  She was utterly merciless in the hanging of Merrett Frey, which cannot be discounted.  She is vengeance, not justice.  Though she does seem to be extremely single minded in her methodical extermination of those she considers enemies she may find some sort of mercy for those who were proven loyal to Robb.  

Loyalty to the Starks should not be the test used to determine whether somebody lives or dies.  The Starks were as much to blame for the War of the Five Kings as anybody.  Being an enemy of the Starks does not make someone bad or deserving of death.  

LSH is vengeance because she died with that kind of thinking in mind.  It was her very last thoughts before she killed Aegon Frey.  Which is scary because revenge and Arya were the last things on Jon's mind when he expired.  

LSH is not concerned with fine justice.  A member of House Frey will die if they fall into her hands.  I say even Roslyn would be killed.  

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4 hours ago, Nevets said:

When they executed Merrett Frey, she was asked if he was involved, and she nodded that he was.  This suggests that she has some interest in separating those involved from those that weren't.  So I think Olyvar and Perwyn might have a chance, especially as they will be protesting their innocence quite loudly.

Merrett was barely involved.  He passed out before the fighting.  I do not think it's right to kill someone for intent.  

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42 minutes ago, Finley McLeod said:

Loyalty to the Starks should not be the test used to determine whether somebody lives or dies.  The Starks were as much to blame for the War of the Five Kings as anybody.  Being an enemy of the Starks does not make someone bad or deserving of death.  

LSH is vengeance because she died with that kind of thinking in mind.  It was her very last thoughts before she killed Aegon Frey.  Which is scary because revenge and Arya were the last things on Jon's mind when he expired.  

LSH is not concerned with fine justice.  A member of House Frey will die if they fall into her hands.  I say even Roslyn would be killed.  

We haven't yet seen an interaction between LSH and another character like Olyver or Perwyn or Jeyne or Reynald.   I don't believe that this incarnation of Catelyn Stark is concerned so much with the WOT5K as the horrible murder of what she believed to be her last surviving child...as well as herself.   As last Stark standing, Cat would bear all the horror and grief and betrayal in bearing witness and being a victim.   Look, I'm not a Cat fan.  Even a little bit.   Her murder of Jinglebell proved the extent of her madness in the moments.   Not a Cat move at all, but a terrorized victim of unimaginable horror.  She died nearly alone in that horror having witnessed most of the Red Wedding before her own violent death.   What says the introduction of someone who loved Robb, her son, not the king, wouldn't move her to a sense of comfort?    I doubt she would turn Grey Wolf away or have him harmed in any way had he survived and turned up.  She didn't want the wolf near her children at 1st, but Grey Wind proved his value.  

Your line about fine justice is perfect.   Fine justice indeed.   I was trying to illustrate that fine justice in naming Westerlings she wanted nothing to do with along with a direwolf she feared for a long time.  While you may be right about LSH having no conscience or feeling beyond vengeance, we don't know it until a verifiable interaction is read.   There is a chance Jeyne Westerling will cross LSH's path.   I'm holding out for that exchange.   

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