Ice, Longclaw, Dawn, Azor Azhai and LightBringer

[TheLastWolf]

I know, I know...there have already been a million threads about them, but please bear with me. As you read on it will be more engrossing, I promise you.

OLD ICE:

• Lost during the Age of Heroes ( Most probably after the Battle for the Dawn which ended the Long Night). It could've been the Valyrian steel (dragonsteel) sword used by the last hero to slay the Other(s).

NEW ICE"

• Just a Valyrian steel sword named after the old one which is now reforged into Oathkeeper and Widow's Wail.

DAWN:

• Forged from the heart of a fallen star ( obviously a crashed comet) at Starfall. As strong as Valyrian steel, if not stronger, but as pale as milkglass. Now at Starfall, returned to the Daynes by Ned stark.

I think that Longclaw is Old Ice ( the Mormonts had it for only 5 centuries). Some may argue that DarkSister is Longclaw, after the markings were conveniently damaged by the fire at Castle Black which burned Jon's hand. But DS was never a bastard sword, or it would have been mentioned. Rather it was mentioned that DS was smaller than most to fit a woman, while Longclaw was half a foot longer than most.

I think that Jeor Mormont knew about the sword's original heritage, like all the Mormonts before him and must have told Jon in some cryptic message which I'm still searching for...since today. I think that the Starks must have re-found Old Ice in the crypts of Winterfell after getting the new one. So they must've given it to their loyal bannermen, the Mormonts and forgotten all about it over the years...or not(makes no matter). 

LIGHTBRINGER:

What Stannis has is fake, and I wont waste time time proving why as everyone who have read till ADWD would know.

Now we know that Dawn isn't Lightbringer as many claim...because Azor Azhai plunged it into Nissa Nissa's heart to temper the steel. STEEL. Dawn is't made of steel, but the heart of a star and is as pale as milkglass. Though the names of the two swords are suggestive...its just a failed theory and dead end. But I think Gendry is gonna forge a similar sword like Dawn from the heart of the Red Comet we saw in the first few parts of ASOIAF before it disappeared(fell/crashed like the other one millennia ago at Starfall) and could've fallen somewhere where there are few inhabitants to spread the news of it, like the Neck or Skane/Skaagos...or even outside Westeros. Do not mistake that I'm implying that Gendry is Azor Azhai Reborn, I'm just saying that he's gonna forge a new hero sword.

I think that LB is .... Old Ice/Longclaw and the first Azor Azhai was the last hero who slew Others with dragonsteel sword ( time frame matches-Age of Heroes,Long Night and age of darkness same). And we know from the making of LB that it was probably a Valyrian steel sword(folded and beaten again and again). And I also think that the word dragonsteel using to refer the last hero's sword was not only referring to it being Valyrian steel, also that the sword was on fire(LB burns). After the Battle for the Dawn, AA could have given LB to the Starks before he...died?left somewhere? And LB became Old Ice and lost its properties (magical) temporarily as its waiting for the AAR.

And AAR or the prince who was promised is Jon.(if R+L=J)

1. Born in Tower of Joy, "...amidst salt and smoke..." near sea, so salt, but smoke can mean so many things both literal and figurative.
2. And Dany's visions at the House of Undying in Qarth must have shown Rhaegar with Lyanna and Jon, not Elia and Aegon as,

• "...his will be song of ice and fire..." could refer to Jon being born of the wolf and dragon. And also justifies Rhaegar saying "...he is the prince who was promised.." if Jon is AAR and will wield LB(old Ice and LB which burns-fire)
• "....3 heads will the dragon have..." DANY,fAEGON and JON.

Jon has Longclaw/Old Ice/Lightbringer and Nissa Nissa could've been Ygritte. If Jon had Killed Ygritte with Longclaw/Old Ice/Lightbringer it might've activated its dormant powers. But she was killed by someone else's arrow, so that is finished.

So Nissa Nissa could be....

Melisandre

Meli will sacrifice Shireen(king's blood, so Jon would not just be a firewight like Beric, but he'll be back for real) to resurrect Jon because she will believe that Jon is AAR (her visions searching for AAR showed Jon only, so she'd make the connection). Then she'd sacrifice herself so Longclaw/Old Ice/Lightbringer can be reactivated(see threads about how Jon sees Melisandre as similar to Ygritte)

Daenerys

Nissa square could be Dany if she and Jon meet and fall in love, though I do not want her to die(nor him for that matter, but when have any of our wishes counted).AAR could be Dany and Nissa Nissa be Jon if my theory were wrong, but I don't think it is( the important parts atleast) because GRRM always does the unconventional and opposite of what is being suggested in the books(Aemon,Marwyn etc all think Dany to be the promised prince/AAR)

P.S.I think Jon is warging in Ghost after his assassination as ghost was his last word(s). Even Meli saw visions of a man, a wolf and again a man. What does it suggest? Jon is gonna be back.

 

 

[TedBear]

 

1 hour ago, TheLastWolf said:

his will be song of ice and fire..." could refer to Jon being born of the wolf and dragon. And also justifies Rhaegar saying "...he is the prince who was promised.." if Jon is AAR and will wield LB(old Ice and LB which burns-fire)

It is quite strange for someone to give the same name to two children. Besides, shouldn't Rhaegar be dead when Jon was born? And we know that he believed that Aegon was the promised prince. I like to think that maybe Jon is called Viserys, since he had a son named Aegon and a daughter named Rhaenys, the other would be Viserys, or Aemon, in honor of the Maester.

I believe that Asoiaf it is a balance between ice and fire, or in that sense it can represent the balance between good and evil. I don't think the Starks are ice, they have nothing related to ice, except living in a cold place, I always thought that ice is the Others, and all human(or just dragons) are fire.

I also think that dragons are the Lightbringer, which would be much more useful than a sword, in which case Dany would be the one who takes the "sword" from the fire, and the three heads of the dragon will be Azor Ahai, Dany, Jon and someone else.

 

 

[Darth Sidious]

I do not think Jon is Azor Ahai.  The prophecy has already been fulfilled.  Daenerys woke her dragons from stone on the Dothraki Sea.  That makes her Azor Ahai.

[Bloodraven’s Spider]

6 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

I know, I know...there have already been a million threads about them, but please bear with me. As you read on it will be more engrossing, I promise you.

OLD ICE:

• Lost during the Age of Heroes ( Most probably after the Battle for the Dawn which ended the Long Night). It could've been the Valyrian steel (dragonsteel) sword used by the last hero to slay the Other(s).

NEW ICE"

• Just a Valyrian steel sword named after the old one which is now reforged into Oathkeeper and Widow's Wail.

DAWN:

• Forged from the heart of a fallen star ( obviously a crashed comet) at Starfall. As strong as Valyrian steel, if not stronger, but as pale as milkglass. Now at Starfall, returned to the Daynes by Ned stark.

I think that Longclaw is Old Ice ( the Mormonts had it for only 5 centuries). Some may argue that DarkSister is Longclaw, after the markings were conveniently damaged by the fire at Castle Black which burned Jon's hand. But DS was never a bastard sword, or it would have been mentioned. Rather it was mentioned that DS was smaller than most to fit a woman, while Longclaw was half a foot longer than most.

I think that Jeor Mormont knew about the sword's original heritage, like all the Mormonts before him and must have told Jon in some cryptic message which I'm still searching for...since today. I think that the Starks must have re-found Old Ice in the crypts of Winterfell after getting the new one. So they must've given it to their loyal bannermen, the Mormonts and forgotten all about it over the years...or not(makes no matter). 

LIGHTBRINGER:

What Stannis has is fake, and I wont waste time time proving why as everyone who have read till ADWD would know.

Now we know that Dawn isn't Lightbringer as many claim...because Azor Azhai plunged it into Nissa Nissa's heart to temper the steel. STEEL. Dawn is't made of steel, but the heart of a star and is as pale as milkglass. Though the names of the two swords are suggestive...its just a failed theory and dead end. But I think Gendry is gonna forge a similar sword like Dawn from the heart of the Red Comet we saw in the first few parts of ASOIAF before it disappeared(fell/crashed like the other one millennia ago at Starfall) and could've fallen somewhere where there are few inhabitants to spread the news of it, like the Neck or Skane/Skaagos...or even outside Westeros. Do not mistake that I'm implying that Gendry is Azor Azhai Reborn, I'm just saying that he's gonna forge a new hero sword.

I think that LB is .... Old Ice/Longclaw and the first Azor Azhai was the last hero who slew Others with dragonsteel sword ( time frame matches-Age of Heroes,Long Night and age of darkness same). And we know from the making of LB that it was probably a Valyrian steel sword(folded and beaten again and again). And I also think that the word dragonsteel using to refer the last hero's sword was not only referring to it being Valyrian steel, also that the sword was on fire(LB burns). After the Battle for the Dawn, AA could have given LB to the Starks before he...died?left somewhere? And LB became Old Ice and lost its properties (magical) temporarily as its waiting for the AAR.

And AAR or the prince who was promised is Jon.(if R+L=J)

1. Born in Tower of Joy, "...amidst salt and smoke..." near sea, so salt, but smoke can mean so many things both literal and figurative.
2. And Dany's visions at the House of Undying in Qarth must have shown Rhaegar with Lyanna and Jon, not Elia and Aegon as,

• "...his will be song of ice and fire..." could refer to Jon being born of the wolf and dragon. And also justifies Rhaegar saying "...he is the prince who was promised.." if Jon is AAR and will wield LB(old Ice and LB which burns-fire)
• "....3 heads will the dragon have..." DANY,fAEGON and JON.

Jon has Longclaw/Old Ice/Lightbringer and Nissa Nissa could've been Ygritte. If Jon had Killed Ygritte with Longclaw/Old Ice/Lightbringer it might've activated its dormant powers. But she was killed by someone else's arrow, so that is finished.

So Nissa Nissa could be....

Melisandre

Meli will sacrifice Shireen(king's blood, so Jon would not just be a firewight like Beric, but he'll be back for real) to resurrect Jon because she will believe that Jon is AAR (her visions searching for AAR showed Jon only, so she'd make the connection). Then she'd sacrifice herself so Longclaw/Old Ice/Lightbringer can be reactivated(see threads about how Jon sees Melisandre as similar to Ygritte)

Daenerys

Nissa square could be Dany if she and Jon meet and fall in love, though I do not want her to die(nor him for that matter, but when have any of our wishes counted).AAR could be Dany and Nissa Nissa be Jon if my theory were wrong, but I don't think it is( the important parts atleast) because GRRM always does the unconventional and opposite of what is being suggested in the books(Aemon,Marwyn etc all think Dany to be the promised prince/AAR)

P.S.I think Jon is warging in Ghost after his assassination as ghost was his last word(s). Even Meli saw visions of a man, a wolf and again a man. What does it suggest? Jon is gonna be back.

 

 

I agree that Mel will sacrifice Shireen as a means to bring Jon back. And some of the shit is just red herrings.

I also agree Jon warged into Ghost, cant wait for his resurrection. But born amidst salt and tears... Dany’s rebirth... Let’s see what Jon’s will be like. 

I think Lady Forlorn is the original Ice and was wielded by Brandon of the bloody blade. 

[Curled Finger]

10 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

I know, I know...there have already been a million threads about them, but please bear with me. As you read on it will be more engrossing, I promise you.

OLD ICE:

• Lost during the Age of Heroes ( Most probably after the Battle for the Dawn which ended the Long Night). It could've been the Valyrian steel (dragonsteel) sword used by the last hero to slay the Other(s).

NEW ICE"

• Just a Valyrian steel sword named after the old one which is now reforged into Oathkeeper and Widow's Wail.

DAWN:

• Forged from the heart of a fallen star ( obviously a crashed comet) at Starfall. As strong as Valyrian steel, if not stronger, but as pale as milkglass. Now at Starfall, returned to the Daynes by Ned stark.

I think that Longclaw is Old Ice ( the Mormonts had it for only 5 centuries). Some may argue that DarkSister is Longclaw, after the markings were conveniently damaged by the fire at Castle Black which burned Jon's hand. But DS was never a bastard sword, or it would have been mentioned. Rather it was mentioned that DS was smaller than most to fit a woman, while Longclaw was half a foot longer than most.   

I think that Jeor Mormont knew about the sword's original heritage, like all the Mormonts before him and must have told Jon in some cryptic message which I'm still searching for...since today. I think that the Starks must have re-found Old Ice in the crypts of Winterfell after getting the new one. So they must've given it to their loyal bannermen, the Mormonts and forgotten all about it over the years...or not(makes no matter). 

LIGHTBRINGER:

What Stannis has is fake, and I wont waste time time proving why as everyone who have read till ADWD would know.

Now we know that Dawn isn't Lightbringer as many claim...because Azor Azhai plunged it into Nissa Nissa's heart to temper the steel. STEEL. Dawn is't made of steel, but the heart of a star and is as pale as milkglass. Though the names of the two swords are suggestive...its just a failed theory and dead end. But I think Gendry is gonna forge a similar sword like Dawn from the heart of the Red Comet we saw in the first few parts of ASOIAF before it disappeared(fell/crashed like the other one millennia ago at Starfall) and could've fallen somewhere where there are few inhabitants to spread the news of it, like the Neck or Skane/Skaagos...or even outside Westeros. Do not mistake that I'm implying that Gendry is Azor Azhai Reborn, I'm just saying that he's gonna forge a new hero sword.

I think that LB is .... Old Ice/Longclaw and the first Azor Azhai was the last hero who slew Others with dragonsteel sword ( time frame matches-Age of Heroes,Long Night and age of darkness same). And we know from the making of LB that it was probably a Valyrian steel sword(folded and beaten again and again). And I also think that the word dragonsteel using to refer the last hero's sword was not only referring to it being Valyrian steel, also that the sword was on fire(LB burns). After the Battle for the Dawn, AA could have given LB to the Starks before he...died?left somewhere? And LB became Old Ice and lost its properties (magical) temporarily as its waiting for the AAR.

 

Let's talk shop.  

He unsheathed Dawn and held it with both hands. The blade was pale as milkglass, alive with light.  AGOT Eddard X

Sam rolled onto his side, eyes wide as the Other shrank and puddled, dissolving away. In twenty heartbeats its flesh was gone, swirling away in a fine white mist. Beneath were bones like milkglass, pale and shiny, and they were melting too.    ASOS Samwell I

The Other slid forward on silent feet. In its hand was a longsword like none that Will had ever seen. No human metal had gone into the forging of that blade. It was alive with moonlight, translucent, a shard of crystal so thin that it seemed almost to vanish when seen edge-on. There was a faint blue shimmer to the thing, a ghost-light that played around its edges, and somehow Will knew it was sharper than any razor.  AGOT Prologue

Milk glass is an opaque or translucent, milk white or colored glass that can be blown or pressed into a wide variety of shapes.  Wiki

Having established the quotes tying Dawn to the Other's weapon and defined milkglass, we have have descriptions of Valyrian Steel.

 "Ice," that sword was called. It was as wide across as a man's hand, and taller even than Robb. The blade was Valyrian steel, spell-forged and dark as smoke. Nothing held an edge like Valyrian steel.  AGOT Bran I

The pommel was a hunk of pale stone weighted with lead to balance the long blade. It had been carved into the likeness of a snarling wolf's head, with chips of garnet set into the eyes. The grip was virgin leather, soft and black, as yet unstained by sweat or blood. The blade itself was a good half foot longer than those Jon was used to, tapered to thrust as well as slash, with three fullers deeply incised in the metal. Where Ice was a true two-handed greatsword, this was a hand-and-a-halfer, sometimes named a "bastard sword." Yet the wolf sword actually seemed lighter than the blades he had wielded before. When Jon turned it sideways, he could see the ripples in the dark steel where the metal had been folded back on itself again and again. "This is Valyrian steel, my lord," he said wonderingly. His father had let him handle Ice often enough; he knew the look, the feel.  AGOT Jon VIII

OK, now we have descriptions of milkglass and Valyrian Steel swords.  The first sort are a whiteish color where the second are dark along the grey black spectrums.   There is no mistaking one for the other.  While Dawn could certainly be Old Ice, we have no description of Old Ice. The only other comparable blade is that belonging to the Others.  

Westeros is said to have been "discovered" by the masses of 1st Men some 8 to 10 thousands years ago.  Valyria is thought to have been established some 5000 years ago.  The 1st Men employed bronze as the main material for their weapons until the Andals brought steel, some 3000 years ago.   One can assume that steel as a material for making weapons was already in fairly wide use outside Westeros when the Andals arrived.  Valyria expanded upon the crafting of weapons aggregating steel, magic and dragon fire creating Valyrian Steel.   I don't think we can credit Valyria with discovering steel, as they do seem to have enhanced the properties where the Andals seem to be the people who introduced steel to Westeros.   Valyrian Steel is not known to have existed in Westeros prior to 500 years ago, based upon known house claims which is debatable.  What is not debatable is that Old Ice could not have been made of Valyrian Steel.  Maybe milkglass, as the Daynes are said to have established their house in Westeros some 10,000 years ago.  OK, timeline established strictly according to text.  Who knows what really happened or when?  It is safe to assume that Valyrian Steel came much later than milkglass colored weapons. 

Dawn could fit into the Lightbringer scenario according to history.  The Daynes could have fought in the last battle of the Long Night.  I have a pet theory that House Stark was established by a Dayne bastard, but that's neither here nor there.  The best Ice could have been is bronze if it is the Lightbringer of legend separate from Dawn.  I tend to think it was more along the lines of Dawn or the Others' blades. Again, not important.  What is probably most important when measuring Dawn against Lightbringer is in the naming.   What is dawn if not a light bringer?  Where does Ice fit into this?  I don't think it does.   Old Ice is something else.  Maybe it's Dawn? 

Ice is not the only Valyrian Steel sword in the story that was named for an earlier not VS sword.   Lady Forlorn has been around a very long time, perhaps as far back as the founding of the Vale.   So you have 2 bronze or steel ancestral swords resurrected in Valyrian Steel.   Is it safe to categorize Ice and Lady Forlorn in the same category?  Yes.   I think it goes to the idea that replacing a lost ancestral sword was a big deal to 1st Men.   We already know it was very important to Tywin.  Just so happens that The Starks and Corbrays were fortunate in obtaining Valyrian Steel replications of their heirlooms.   Poor Tywin.   

Certainly we are nearly challenged to look for more than what we read in ASOIAF and I have adopted a very narrow view of the advents of the magical swords for my own sanity if not a reasonable argument.   

Longclaw is as much a mystery as the Mormonts.  Longclaw is not old Ice or Lightbringer.  Did you know a Longclaw is a bird?  How the hell does that fit in with bears or wolves or light bringers or long nights or ice demons?   Maybe it doesn't.   Maybe all that is important about Longclaw is that Jon has it because Jorah couldn't bring himself to sell it.  There is a loyalty to house and family in this.  What are Jon and Jorah?  They are both oathbreakers.  If Jon is a Targaryan king he will carry the Targaryan sword of kings, not oathbreakers.  There is another oathbreaker in this tale who should be able to wield Longclaw in a most decisive and useful way.  I don't think it matters where or how Longclaw came about.   I think it's House Mormont and to a lesser degree, the affinity with oathbreakers that is important with this sword.   

While I can appreciate the logic you put forth, history/timelines don't support it.  Have you ever read the magical swords and legends without adding anything to what you're told?   I've tried, it's not easy, but it has helped make a few connections I couldn't make while looking for things I don't read are there.    This story has millions of holes in it. 

[Mordred]

There were many heroes who fought to preserve life besides Azor Ahai.  Each of them had to have had an effective weapon against the Others.  Queen Daenerys has her dragons, her Lightbringers, which she hatched from stone.  Paid for by the blood of her beloved husband, Khal Drogo.  

Dawn is as good a choice as any to be another Lightbringer-like weapon.  After all, only a few will get to ride dragons.  The rest must make do with edged weapons.  It would not surprise me one bit if Ned Dayne has to stick it in Arya's chest to make it more effective.  

[Castellan]

New Ice is the most important sword and Dawn is a red herring.

[TheLastWolf]

10 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Valyrian Steel is not known to have existed in Westeros prior to 500 years ago, based upon known house claims which is debatable

What do you have to say about the last hero slaying Others with dragonsteel sword during Battle for the Dawn which ended the Long Night during the Age of heroes which was 8-10 thousand years ago? surely thats Valyrian steel.

[Curled Finger]

6 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

What do you have to say about the last hero slaying Others with dragonsteel sword during Battle for the Dawn which ended the Long Night during the Age of heroes which was 8-10 thousand years ago? surely thats Valyrian steel.

I don't think it's possible VS as alternative magic existed during TLN.  There was only milkglass and dragonglass.   I think this milkglass is a likely candidate for dragonsteel.  It's not stated that the Others were slain, only driven back beyond the Wall.  

Thanks to the children, the first men of the Night's Watch banded together and were able to fight—and win—the Battle for the Dawn: the last battle that broke the endless winter and sent the Others fleeing to the icy north.  TWOIAF  The Long Night

In that the magical weapons available at the time of The Long Night were perhaps incapable of killing the Others, it's entirely possible that this super magicked-up Valyrian Steel may be the ultimate weapon against the Others.   Longclaw, Lady Forlorn, Oathkeeper, Widows Wail, Blackfyre, Red Rain, Dark Sister, Truth, Orphan-Maker, Heartsbane and possibly 2 more named VS swords may do the real trick this time around.  

I really wanted to add +/- 500 years to all the dates I originally offered, but feared that would make the statements too ambiguous.  However, even +/- 1000 years doesn't help the advent of VS happen anywhere close to The Long Night.   It is entirely possible that the Valyrians were as attached and interested in prophesy as Rhaegar was and that VS was invented for TPTWP in order to fulfill prophesy.   Certainly for a specifically magical purpose.  I think it was the fine properties associated with VS that made the swords highly desirable for martial use in foreign lands like Westeros.  Who doesn't want a beautiful, dark, perpetually sharp, well balanced weapon that has a will of its own?  

[Megorova]

On 7/1/2020 at 2:33 PM, TheLastWolf said:

Now we know that Dawn isn't Lightbringer as many claim...because Azor Azhai plunged it into Nissa Nissa's heart to temper the steel. STEEL. Dawn is't made of steel, but the heart of a star and is as pale as milkglass. Though the names of the two swords are suggestive...its just a failed theory and dead end.

That's wrong. Because:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteorite

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forging

"Meteorites have traditionally been divided into three broad categories: stony meteorites that are rocks, mainly composed of silicate minerals; iron meteorites that are largely composed of metallic iron-nickel; and stony-iron meteorites that contain large amounts of both metallic and rocky material."

"Steel is an alloy of iron with typically a few percent of carbon to improve its strength and fracture resistance compared to iron. Many other additional elements may be present or added."

"Forging is a manufacturing process involving the shaping of metal using localized compressive forces."

 

Dawn was forged. Lighbringer (Dawn) is a steel blade. Steel is made from iron. Iron is a metal. Swords are forged from metal (WHERE HAVE YOU EVEN HEARD ABOUT A SWORD THAT WAS FORGED NOT FROM A METAL??? Forging is a process of shaping METAL). Dawn is a sword. If Dawn was forged from components of meteorite, then that meteorite was either iron-meteorite or stony-iron meteorite. If there was no metal in that meteorite, then its components wouldn't and couldn't have been used to FORGE a sword.

Dawn is Lightbringer. That is known.

On 7/1/2020 at 2:33 PM, TheLastWolf said:

as pale as milkglass.

If something is "as white as snow", it doesn't mean that that something is also cold like snow, and melts like snow, or made from frozen water.

The steel of Dawn/Ligtbringer is pale. That's because in the alloy, from which was forged this sword, were some additional elements, that are absent in the alloy from which was forged Valyrian steel, which is dark.

[Back door hodor]

Hey.... some of us definitely enjoy the sword talk so no complaints from me about the topic.

First....old Ice...I do not think it is Dawn or has any connection to Dawn. Dawn's inspiration in my opinion comes from real world Meteoric Iron...Metal that is literally not of this world. What exactly this means as far as the story of out novels I I honestly have no idea.( will it behave the same as VS against the others?) I believe old Ice to be a captured weapon of the others, whether this blades are some kind of crystal or actually made of magic ice we honestly can not be sure in my opinion.

Small aside,you equate VS to "dragonsteel" in your OP. I agree with you 100 percent, in fact I speculate that dragonsteel is the real name, and the name Valyrian steel comes from either a translation error(most likely, as mistranslation is already a major plot point concerning certain prophecies), or a history is written by the winners scenario with the Valyrians simply renaming an already existing technology after themselves.(less likely in my opinion).....I have had this convo with a few other sword enthusiasts in my time however, and must admit that there is absolutely no proof that dragonsteel= VS, but it is my belief. 

I do not personally think Dawn is Lightbringer,  I think Dani is AA and the dragons are Lightbringer....in fact the only way I see Dawn actually making an appearance in the Novels is Darkstar claiming it for himself by force, I do not believe such a scenario would end very well for him.....he is not the sword of the mourning.

[TheLastWolf]

14 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

it's entirely possible that this super magicked-up Valyrian Steel may be the ultimate weapon against the Others.   Longclaw, Lady Forlorn, Oathkeeper, Widows Wail, Blackfyre, Red Rain, Dark Sister, Truth, Orphan-Maker, Heartsbane and possibly 2 more named VS swords may do the real trick this time around.  

What about Nightfall 

And please offer your opinion about Longclaw theories

[Curled Finger]

1 hour ago, TheLastWolf said:

What about Nightfall 

And please offer your opinion about Longclaw theories

Nightfall?  Well, I ran into an idea that Nightfall would be 1) the opposite of Dawn 2) maybe match Euron's VS suit.   This is not my idea, but I think it has some merit.  I believe there will be 12 Heroes and Swords + 1 Hero and Dawn when it all comes down.  I hesitate to just throw Vigilance out there because GRRM hasn't actually brought it up it at all other than historical mention.   While I think it is probably still with the Hightowers, I don't know it is.  What we do have is Shadoq and later Caggo's arakh.   This only came to light with Blood & Fire.   Lamentation could be not destroyed or Brightroar could be discovered, but I think both unlikely.   There is a certain math to these swords at least so far.   

As to Longclaw all I can offer is the history already given.   It's not anything other than Longclaw and Jon's training sword and the Mormont's ancestral sword.   Longclaw is the sword of oathbreakers and will be among the finalists in the battle for dawn to come.  

[TheLastWolf]

On 7/2/2020 at 5:25 AM, Mordred said:

It would not surprise me one bit if Ned Dayne has to stick it in Arya's chest to make it more effective

C'mon! Ned Dayne and Arya?! All the hints point towards Gendry-Arya (if such a thing should come) Anyway, none of all those mentioned in this post (or yours for the matter) would be AAR. Its Dany, Jon or fAegon or nobody.

On 7/2/2020 at 6:17 AM, Castellan said:

New Ice is the most important sword and Dawn is a red herring.

New Ice is gone (now only Oathkeeper and Widow's Wail), and it took me a long time to accept it.

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/157196-would-ice-be-reforged/

As to Dawn being just a red herring, man that's too difficult to swallow considering all the hype.

[TheLastWolf]

Quote

  On 7/3/2020 at 1:10 AM, Seams said:

1) Payne sounds like Dayne and Reyne. Could there be parallels or symbolism in either of those Houses to explain House Payne?

2) His only known living relative is Ser Ilyn. We don't know the relationship, but what clue does this relationship provide in sorting out both Paynes?

Valyrian Steel is somehow getting linked with Pod theories

Dayne - Dawn

Reyne - Red Rain

Targ/B.Fyre - Dark Sister or Blackfyre 

HarlawGreyjoy - Nightfall

Stark - New/Old Ice, and if new... Oathkeeper is out, only Widow's Wail. 

I bet Pod is gonna be instrumental in the final battle against the Others 

... And Ilyn is a headsman , any connections you can think of? 

This quote is from my theory about Pod Payne. That apart, please note the VS references. 

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/157278-podrick-payne-a-greyjoytargaryenblackfyrestark/

 

[TheLastWolf]

On 7/2/2020 at 5:25 AM, Mordred said:

It would not surprise me one bit if Ned Dayne has to stick it in Arya's chest to make it more effective.  

AAR is Gendry and he will kill Arya to activate his Lightbringer (the stag horn in direwolf's throat at the starting)

Or it's Patchface and Shireen

Or it's Jon and Ygritte/Meli/Dany

Or it was Dany and Drogo (dragons being lightbringer)

Or we were wrong all the time about AAR being good and Others the evil ones (for no reason at all)

[TedBear]

Azor Ahai is not only a person, I believe there are three, Dany, Jon (after all this is his arc) and someone else, about that third person we know it won't be a targaryen. 

4 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

Or it was Dany and Drogo (dragons being lightbringer)

Not Drogo, Rhaego.

"… don't want to wake the dragon …"

She could feel the heat inside her, a terrible burning in her womb. Her son was tall and proud, with Drogo's copper skin and her own silver-gold hair, violet eyes shaped like almonds. And he smiled for her and began to lift his hand toward hers, but when he opened his mouth the fire poured out. She saw his heart burning through his chest, and in an instant he was gone, consumed like a moth by a candle, turned to ash. She wept for her child, the promise of a sweet mouth on her breast, but her tears turned to steam as they touched her skin.

"… want to wake the dragon …"