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Third Quarter 2020 Reading is a Joy


Peadar

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15 hours ago, Jo498 said:

There was a man called Sture Hjorlufson. His house was between the mountains blabla and the river etc. He had a servant called Thordur Snorrison. At harvest time Thordur and two others met men from the other side of the river. There was a quarrel. Thordur was killed... 10 years of blood feud, burning down homestead etc. follow

You forgot the entire family trees of both Sture and Thordur, including where everybody lived and who were married to whom.

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I've taken a break from fantasy for a while (Currently reading the biography Pitt The Younger by William Hague and before that a multiple biography binge on Horatio Nelson) but I'm feeling the need to get a new fantasy series on the go for the first time in years.

I'm going to read Dune after I've finished Pitt The Younger, been on the the TBR pile for too long and with the film coming I'd rather read it first.

After a few failed attempts, Terry Pratchett and Discworld finally clicked with Guards! Guards! end of last year and I'm working my way through Discworld slowly, read one then a few other books and back to Discworld. Hogfather was the last in April and it was a bit of a slog for me. I'll get to Jingo before the year is out and carry on with The Watch novels.

But I really want to start a 'proper' series, Discworld is more loose so it's good to dip in and out of with no need to read the next soon after so you don't forget the story as they're mostly self contained. I'm stuck between Wheel Of Time and Farseer (plus the follow on trilogies). I've scoured Reddit and previous threads here for opinion and looking for an updated view. With WOT it's more a case is it worth reading/trying Eye Of The World before the Amazon series begins?

I don't want to read both at the same time as I like to read other stuff and not be flipping between WOT/Farseer/Discworld for god knows how long with no time for anything else. So the question is what do I buy when I go to pick up Dune? Assassins Apprentice or Eye Of The World?

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30 minutes ago, Leap said:

At risk of turning this into another Wheel of Time thread, choose Assassin's Apprentice. 

Without going into the merits of each (WoT sucks and I hate it), Assassin's Apprentice is part of a larger series of similar size to WoT, but with the distinction of being in discrete trilogies that are easier to take one at a time. Addiionally, if you found Hogfather to be a slog - and I actually kind of agree with you there - WoT has like 4 books in a row that are kind of just filler. And they are each 3x the size of Hogfather.

Thanks, yeah I don't want to derail this into another debate on the merits or lack of on WOT and I didn't want to start a new thread either. I should have mentioned I've done my research on both and considered a few other series and I'm well aware of the WOT slog around books 7/8-10. Yet I'm still to drawn to it slightly more than Farseer and I can't explain why though I know Farseer is probably the more likely better option. 

I've just remembered I've got Persepolis Rising & Timat's Wrath to catch up on as well at some point as well. :uhoh:

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7 hours ago, The Marquis de Leech said:

You forgot the exciting court case, and the payment of compensation. And that the killer will likely be composing verses of drottkvaett poetry at various intervals. 

Favourite there is from Gisle Surson's saga - the one who nearly managed to live as an outlaw for four years. 

When his enemies catches him, they fight. And he gets his stomach cut open. 

He then proceeds to stuff his entrails back, keeps them in place with a belt, and then composes verses. Before he fights again. 

Absolute classic!

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On 7/19/2020 at 2:31 PM, Plessiez said:

 (I know I've seen some discussion on the forum about Jones going back to work on Endlords -- in fact that was actually part of why I picked up A Cavern of Black Ice last year -- but does anybody know if this is intended to be the final book in the series?)

I probably shouldn't answer, because I do not know for certain, but I believe I've heard that two more books were planned? After Watcher of the Dead, that is.

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1 hour ago, Jodan said:

After a few failed attempts, Terry Pratchett and Discworld finally clicked with Guards! Guards! end of last year and I'm working my way through Discworld slowly, read one then a few other books and back to Discworld. Hogfather was the last in April and it was a bit of a slog for me. I'll get to Jingo before the year is out and carry on with The Watch novels.

Yeah, the Discworld books take a while to find their form. In particular, I didn't like The Colour of Magic very much (it was fun and all, but the lack of an overarching story irked me), so after reading it I didn't continue with the series until years later, when I'd heard so much good about Pratchett that I had to give it another go. The Light Fantastic was so fun I had to continue reading in chronological order, but it took until Guards! Guards! or so before the series really found its tone. The number of stand-alone books and stories in the beginning means it takes a while before it has built a cast of recurring characters and settings to return to. 

At some point I realized there were approximately as many Discworld books as there were months left of my PhD studies, so from then on I've bought one book per month. I'm now on Wintersmith, and the series is nearing its end while my thesis deadline is looming ahead. Unfortunately, I've heard that Pratchett's dementia had an impact on the books from Unseen Academicals onward (which is the next one), so I'll get the most stressful PhD months alongside the least-liked Discworld books. Oh well, at least there will be some closure. Kinda strange to think I've read the last of the Death series already and that Susan won't be around for more books. I think the rest of the recurring characters have at least one more book to them, but not much more. It'll be sad to see the last of Lancre, of Ankh-Morpork, the Unseen University, Uberwald, L-Space, Great A'Tuin, and all the rest of the lands on the Disc. 

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1 hour ago, Jodan said:

So the question is what do I buy when I go to pick up Dune? Assassins Apprentice or Eye Of The World?

I don't like Hobb as much as most of the board (I gave up on Realm of the Elderings after Fool's Fate, and haven't ever been seriously tempted to go any further).   But I think Assassin's Apprentice is the obvious correct answer to this question.

That said, it's been decades since I read them but if I remember correctly the first few Wheel of Time books are actually surprisingly self-contained for a multi-volume epic fantasy.  Certainly not as much as the Discworld books of course, but they do have definite internal narrative arcs that are resolved by the end of each book, and introduce characters/settings that are unique to that book.  This stops being true around the fifth book, The Fires of Heaven, when everything becomes much focused on (not) advancing series-long subplots.

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16 minutes ago, Kyll.Ing. said:

The Light Fantastic was so fun I had to continue reading in chronological order, but it took until Guards! Guards! or so before the series really found its tone.

Guards! Guards! was the first Discworld book I read, and it's usually the book I recommend people starting as well.  I think the series gradually starts finding its tone from Mort onwards, with ocasionally exceptions like Sourcery and Eric dragging things back a bit.   I'm probably in a minority in liking Hogfather as much as I do, but certainly around this point I think the series starts to lose some of its charm.  (There are maybe three really good Discworld books from Jingo onwards, I think, compared to two or three times that number of top-level books before that.)

The last few published books are definitely worse, for whatever reason.  Unseen Academicals and Snuff are both pretty bad, sadly.  (And Raising Steam is a lot worse than that -- it's the only Discworld book I genuinely regret reading.)

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49 minutes ago, Kyll.Ing. said:

Yeah, the Discworld books take a while to find their form. In particular, I didn't like The Colour of Magic very much (it was fun and all, but the lack of an overarching story irked me), so after reading it I didn't continue with the series until years later, when I'd heard so much good about Pratchett that I had to give it another go. 

Exactly the same for me. First time I attempted Discworld I made the rookie mistake of going with The Colour Of Magic just because it was published first and had the same issues you did. After a few years I tried again and found that reading order infographic and plumped for the Death novels. I liked Mort but still wasn't hooked on Discworld. Reaper Man I like and I don't at the same time, I need to reread it at some point. I feel like a lot was going over my head that I wasn't getting while reading it. I think you need to be more attuned to Pratchett's style and humour before going for the Death novels as they're more philosophical in nature. Soul Music just lost me and put me off for a few more years as I still wasn't wholly convinced even after Mort and Reaper Man.

17 minutes ago, Plessiez said:

Guards! Guards! was the first Discworld book I read, and it's usually the book I recommend people starting as well.  I think the series gradually starts finding its tone from Mort onwards, with ocasionally exceptions like Sourcery and Eric dragging things back a bit.   I'm probably in a minority in liking Hogfather as much as I do, but certainly around this point I think the series starts to lose some of its charm.  (There are maybe three really good Discworld books from Jingo onwards, I think, compared to two or three times that number of top-level books before that.)

The last few published books are definitely worse, for whatever reason.  Unseen Academicals and Snuff are both pretty bad, sadly.  (And Raising Steam is a lot worse than that -- it's the only Discworld book I genuinely regret reading.)

Guards! Guards! I decided to try last year and third time lucky! I knew The Watch were the most popular books and GG kept being mentioned as the perfect gateway into Discworld and it was. I'll be recommending GG as the first Discworld to try to anyone who asks, gave my brother a copy of it as well. Despite all the humour when the dark bits come along (Specifically near the end of Men at Arms & Vimes visit to his childhood street in Feet Of Clay) it really hits home more as you aren't expecting it and adds more depth I feel. Also helps they seem to have more coherent plots unlike Soul Music, Hogfather & Colour of Magic.

Plan is to read Discworld in this order Jingo, Fifth Elephant, Pyramids, Small Gods, Thief Of Time, Night Watch, Thud & Snuff for the foreseeable (Spread out among other reading so it'll be awhile). It takes in what seem the be the three best/most popular novels (Small Gods, Thief Of Time & Night Watch) while all being loosely related according to the reading order infographic. Probably saving myself up for more disappointment further down the line.

49 minutes ago, Plessiez said:

That said, it's been decades since I read them but if I remember correctly the first few Wheel of Time books are actually surprisingly self-contained for a multi-volume epic fantasy.  Certainly not as much as the Discworld books of course, but they do have definite internal narrative arcs that are resolved by the end of each book, and introduce characters/settings that are unique to that book.  This stops being true around the fifth book, The Fires of Heaven, when everything becomes much focused on (not) advancing series-long subplots.

That's pushing me more to Eye Of The World again. Really stuck on this which is unusual for me, it's just such a commitment as it'll be a few years at least before I get to the one I don't decide on and I've wanted to read both for quite a while. Part of the reason for WOT is I think I just want a simple good vs evil, I know WOT is criticised for being outdated in that way now. But after all the moral ambiguity of AsoiaF, Abercrombie etc it might just hit the spot, Whether that spot is 14 books deep is another matter.

 

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2 hours ago, Jodan said:

I've taken a break from fantasy for a while (Currently reading the biography Pitt The Younger by William Hague and before that a multiple biography binge on Horatio Nelson) but I'm feeling the need to get a new fantasy series on the go for the first time in years.

I'm going to read Dune after I've finished Pitt The Younger, been on the the TBR pile for too long and with the film coming I'd rather read it first.

After a few failed attempts, Terry Pratchett and Discworld finally clicked with Guards! Guards! end of last year and I'm working my way through Discworld slowly, read one then a few other books and back to Discworld. Hogfather was the last in April and it was a bit of a slog for me. I'll get to Jingo before the year is out and carry on with The Watch novels.

But I really want to start a 'proper' series, Discworld is more loose so it's good to dip in and out of with no need to read the next soon after so you don't forget the story as they're mostly self contained. I'm stuck between Wheel Of Time and Farseer (plus the follow on trilogies). I've scoured Reddit and previous threads here for opinion and looking for an updated view. With WOT it's more a case is it worth reading/trying Eye Of The World before the Amazon series begins?

I don't want to read both at the same time as I like to read other stuff and not be flipping between WOT/Farseer/Discworld for god knows how long with no time for anything else. So the question is what do I buy when I go to pick up Dune? Assassins Apprentice or Eye Of The World?

Farseer all day every day and three times on Tuesdays thank you very much. Everyone else's opinions are irrelevant.

 

1 hour ago, Kyll.Ing. said:

Yeah, the Discworld books take a while to find their form. In particular, I didn't like The Colour of Magic very much (it was fun and all, but the lack of an overarching story irked me), so after reading it I didn't continue with the series until years later, when I'd heard so much good about Pratchett that I had to give it another go. The Light Fantastic was so fun I had to continue reading in chronological order, but it took until Guards! Guards! or so before the series really found its tone. The number of stand-alone books and stories in the beginning means it takes a while before it has built a cast of recurring characters and settings to return to. 

At some point I realized there were approximately as many Discworld books as there were months left of my PhD studies, so from then on I've bought one book per month. I'm now on Wintersmith, and the series is nearing its end while my thesis deadline is looming ahead. Unfortunately, I've heard that Pratchett's dementia had an impact on the books from Unseen Academicals onward (which is the next one), so I'll get the most stressful PhD months alongside the least-liked Discworld books. Oh well, at least there will be some closure. Kinda strange to think I've read the last of the Death series already and that Susan won't be around for more books. I think the rest of the recurring characters have at least one more book to them, but not much more. It'll be sad to see the last of Lancre, of Ankh-Morpork, the Unseen University, Uberwald, L-Space, Great A'Tuin, and all the rest of the lands on the Disc. 

My slightly unpopular opinion is that the Witches series is the best of the Discworld stuff. By unpopular I don't mean people necessarily dislike that series, it's just far more common to find, the Watch is most popular. I also include the Tiffany Aching books in that series too, for obvious reasons. I think Wintersmith is my favourite Tiffany Aching book

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3 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

My slightly unpopular opinion is that the Witches series is the best of the Discworld stuff. By unpopular I don't mean people necessarily dislike that series, it's just far more common to find, the Watch is most popular. I also include the Tiffany Aching books in that series too, for obvious reasons. I think Wintersmith is my favourite Tiffany Aching book

I'm actually inclined to agreeing with you there. The Watch series is really, really good, of course, with police dramas in a magical city being really interesting, but the Witches series really shows a culture unique to Pratchett's world. It also helps that the main characters practically have it as their job description to outsmart everyone else, meaning you get a lot of examples of badassery and displays of skill. Unfortunately, the plots have a small tendency towards the same type of villain every time: something or somebody even more magical and mystical than the witches themselves. For this reason, I think Wyrd Sisters and Maskerade are my favourite Witches books so far, as they deal with matters a little more mundane than the usual "go into a magical realm and wrestle the MacGuffin away from the big bad therein" plots.

And that's sort of my complaint with Wintersmith so far, around halfway through the book: The main conflict concerns another magical entity stalking Tiffany Aching. Wasn't that the plot of A Hat Full of Sky too? As well as a non-trivial side plot in The Wee Free Men, even beyond the titular characters? I hope to see Tiffany meet some human adversaries eventually, instead of just supernatural entities. There's two and a half books left in her story, so there are a fair few chances left.

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2 hours ago, Jodan said:

I don't want to read both at the same time as I like to read other stuff and not be flipping between WOT/Farseer/Discworld for god knows how long with no time for anything else. So the question is what do I buy when I go to pick up Dune? Assassins Apprentice or Eye Of The World?

10 minutes ago, Jodan said:

Part of the reason for WOT is I think I just want a simple good vs evil, I know WOT is criticised for being outdated in that way now. But after all the moral ambiguity of AsoiaF, Abercrombie etc it might just hit the spot, Whether that spot is 14 books deep is another matter.

The two series are hugely different. I'm... not the best advocate for Realm of the Elderlings; I'll tell you right out that I think that Hobb's writing is great but I also found series to be incredibly depressing/bleak and it resonated in ways I didn't enjoy with my generally shitty mental health which is why it never made its way onto my re-read pile. While Elderlings has a pretty wide scope at its core it's a very intimate personal story, whereas on the other hand WoT is kinda the platonic ideal of your massive fantasy doorstopper good vs evil, fate of the world, high magic, chosen one type series. It's definitely the bigger commitment in terms of pagecount but if that's what you're looking for then that's exactly what you'll get with WoT.

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2 hours ago, Jodan said:

That's pushing me more to Eye Of The World again. Really stuck on this which is unusual for me, it's just such a commitment as it'll be a few years at least before I get to the one I don't decide on and I've wanted to read both for quite a while. Part of the reason for WOT is I think I just want a simple good vs evil, I know WOT is criticised for being outdated in that way now. But after all the moral ambiguity of AsoiaF, Abercrombie etc it might just hit the spot, Whether that spot is 14 books deep is another matter.

 

WoT is great again now that it's finished. It starts off good then there's a slog which I skipped when I first decided to finish the series and lost nothing by it then, finally, a pretty okay ending with the help of Sanderson.

Plus, a Wheel of Time TV show is being filmed so it's a great time to read the series.

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This morning I wrapped up Eric Ambler's collection of short stories, Waiting for Orders, a group of slightly unusual works from him that I had never read previously.  As the guy who I see as the co-inventor of the spy story along with John Buchan, Ambler's left-of-center, realistic works of suspense in the Levant and Central Europe are always challenging stories that reward a patient reader.

These shorts, written as he waited for his WW2 wartime assignment during the Phony War, are unusual in that all but two are set in London.  The mysteries, featuring the Czech refugee police doctor Jan Czissar, collectively known as "The Intrusions of Dr. Czissar", have a lot of humor.  Dr. Czissar really works well as a detective story protagonist, and the tales, though very short, all work.  Strongly recommended!

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On 8/11/2020 at 3:52 AM, Starkess said:

Hm interesting. I actually totally see HH as likable, it's what makes him such an interesting and compelling character. He is likable and self-deluded while committing a terrible crime. It's been a while since I read the book, though, so my memories are a little foggy.

It's a bit like Tom Ripley, maybe a bit more subtle, extremely well written and HH certainly cannot claim that he slipped into his vile deads by strange circumstances. (And maybe it's also that the late 60s and 70s were generally far more cavalier about middle aged men and very young girls that changed the reception of the character.) The Dostoevsky characters have a wider spectrum. Raskolnikov is a rather sympathetic anti-hero despite his horrible deeds. The man from the "underground" not as much. Some others are also quite repulsive but generally the reader is more moved to pity by these madly driven gamblers etc.

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This also ties into some of my recent reads. I am now at my 4th Inspector Morse novel (not in the proper order, I read first, last, second and now one from the middle, depending on what I could get quickly and cheaply). I got into this by watching the TV prequel series "Endeavour" and a few episodes from the 80s-90s British TV series "Inspector Morse". The TV series rather changed Morse's character and made him far more likable. The Morse of the books is more or less an alcoholic, quite an asshole to his colleagues and subordinates, both shy and lecherous around women (nowadays the books should probably come with a mild warning that the perspective a bit too often is that of a dirty old man) and fairly crazy in some other respects. Sure, he is also a brilliant detective and the books are a bit conceited but very well plotted overall. They kept some spleens and some of the abrasiveness in the TV series but made him much nicer overall and left out the fondness of strip clubs and porn. And the young Morse in the prequel is almost an angel compared to the Morse of the books.

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14 hours ago, The Marquis de Leech said:

You forgot the exciting court case, and the payment of compensation. And that the killer will likely be composing verses of drottkvaett poetry at various intervals. 

Yes. They paid the double wereguild although it was only a servant who had been killed and swore to end the feud and everyone parted as friends but next year in spring again two bands of some relatives of the old feuding parties meet and there is again bloodshed. And I think I only read abridged and probably somewhat bowdlerized version in some anthology, still it was frequently the same.

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Regarding Ted Chiang's "Stories of Your Life and Others" short story collection, I loved  "Understand," "Divide by Zero," "Seventy-Two Letters," "Hell is the Absence of God," and, "Liking What You See: A Documentary."

In particular, "Liking What You See: A Documentary" seems really fresh to me. Of course, the concept of science fictional "neuro/pyschic surgery" like this isn't new but this done in a deceptively simple and straightforward yet thought-provoking way.

Spoiler:

Spoiler

 

One thing I don't think was discussed was how sexual attraction would function when someone is on calli. I mean, would you even feel that sexual pull? How would you select casual sex partners when you can't really tell who is physically attractive?

I get that people love or feel affection on calli regardless of the other person's beauty but I'm wondering about just sheer physical attraction. Does calli also remove that instant sexual attraction that some people have? 

 

 

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On 8/12/2020 at 8:37 AM, Jodan said:

That's pushing me more to Eye Of The World again. Really stuck on this which is unusual for me, it's just such a commitment as it'll be a few years at least before I get to the one I don't decide on and I've wanted to read both for quite a while. Part of the reason for WOT is I think I just want a simple good vs evil, I know WOT is criticised for being outdated in that way now. But after all the moral ambiguity of AsoiaF, Abercrombie etc it might just hit the spot, Whether that spot is 14 books deep is another matter.

The good thing about WoT is that the books are mostly self contained whilst furthering a overall plot. If you just read EotW, then you'll get a good standalone book and if you're impressed enough you can continue further. There are no cliffhangers that take away a satisfaction of "completing" a book. 

The good vs evil in WoT is no different from LotR. Perhaps you can call them vanilla fantasy, but I certainly wouldn't call either as outdated.

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I'm about to finish Ethereal Earth trilogy (Hero Forged, Fate Leashed & Blight Marked) by Josh Erikson. It's refreshing take on Urban Fantasy, light, action packed and fun to read. A minor criticism is lack of variety in books 2 and 3, but still they do make a entertaining read. 

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