Third Quarter 2020 Reading is a Joy

[Peadar]

9 hours ago, mushroomshirt said:

Started reading the first Wild Card book (Wild Cards I).  I am about halfway through.  Just finished the Turtle chapter.  I think maybe I am having trouble with the format.  Maybe I should have realized this, but I find the short stories very disjointed.  I guess I was expecting more of a common thread that would weave the stories together.  Instead it seems like a collection of separate short stories that don't really go together.

I enjoyed a few of the chapters quite a bit.  The sleeper (Roger Zelazny) and golden boy (Walter Jon Williams) chapters in particular I thought were outstanding.  The rest I could take or leave.  I wanted to like GRRM's turtle chapter and almost did.  In that chapter Dr. Tachyon was almost interesting in a Theon-in-a-Dance-With-Dragons kind of way, but even more pathetic somehow.  I didn't care about Tach the same way I care about Theon (and he is my favorite character in ASOIAF).

One other thing I thought was strange is that the effects of the Wild Card virus were never really clearly explained.  Nor were the terms Ace and Joker (maybe I missed this somewhere but I don't think so).  I think I figured it out through context but that lack of explanation was a bit jarring.  It also seemed like Dr. Tachyon's cure that reverses the virus 30% of the time sort of came out of the blue in some stories.  Sometimes it is important and sometimes it isn't even mentioned.  He has this cure right after the virus strikes, that seems pretty fast to develop.  I understand this is actually in one of my favorite chapters (the sleeper), but it affected the overall cohesiveness of the stories for me.

So far the chapters I liked were all at the beginning of the book (I also liked the Jetboy story a lot - Howard Waldrop).  I've maybe stuck with this book longer than I would have otherwise since I had a pretty good start with it.

Am I off base here?  Should I stick with the book or give up now?  I'm intrigued by the world, but would probably prefer a novel format rather than an anthology.  Are there any more novel-like editions of Wild Cards that I might like better?

There are several different Wild Card formats. You might prefer the mosaic books better, since they are a single novel written by a team of writers. Some of the later Wild Cards books are more coherent too. Once you've finished this one and you know the rules, more or less, give Inside Straight a try for a more connected plot.

[Wilbur]

I finished listening to The Fell Sword by Miles Cameron, the second book in The Traitor Son cycle.  The book seemed to be smoother and more interesting than the first book, perhaps because of improved writing, but also because the majority of the POV characters travel to an analog of Byzantium, while the skin-crawling similarities to the Arthurian Cycle are more muted in this story.

The book suffers from the same sort of pitfalls as all middle-of-a-series books, but overcomes them with very good POV characters and interesting situations.  What would happen if Wolfe's Battle of the Plains of Abraham took place in medieval times, or if Arthurian knights succored one of the middling Byzantine emperors?  What if an author played too much Ultima III and Ultima IV as a teenager in the 1980s and then wrote the combat encounters with monsters into the stories?

I was confused by new POV characters who reminded me a lot of characters from the first book, but some online research reveals that some of the characters got new names or their names got new spellings in this book, so ???.  In the end I just used my usual name-forgetting customs and thought of them as "the horny old knight" and "the sidekick brother" and so on.

The Byzantium storylines are very much like top-shelf Harry Turtledove Videssos Cycle, and the stuff back in the England/Americas analog reads like Harry Harrison's The Hammer and the Cross advanced by 500 years.  Entertaining, engrossing stuff, and I liked it.  Strongly recommended.

[Zorral]

Today's perfect weather was perfect for the library run -- both titles I'd requested when Grab 'n Go started here earlier this month arrived to pick-up at my neighborhood Grab 'n Go branch.  One of them is the latest Sebastian St. Cyr Regency mystery -- I enjoy certain aspects of this series very much, though some of the titles drag and sag somewhat as author fails to find a new change to ring on her formula.  Other problems: in the first books the protag, Vicount Devlin, is hinted to have some special sort of powers, including being able to see in the dark, but that never went anywhere.  The two most recent, previous to this one, brought the series back to form; hope that continues with this latest installment, #16, What the Devil Knows. The author is a New Orleanian, which somehow provides an extra bit of flava to the content, though I'd be baffled as to say how.  It's not as though New Orleans or North America is ever even mentioned in her novels, which are within the era of the French Wars, generally, and which does provide plot points in more than one of the titles. This latest is set in 1814, the "French War" is finally over, and Europe is being divvied up at the Congress of Vienna ....  They think, the wars are over, anyway (1815 is Waterloo).

https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/series/BQ9/sebastian-st-cyr-mystery

I was able to continue borrowing from the city system even when it shut down because I have the eprint and audio apps loaded into my computers.  These two titles, Who Speaks for the Devil, and former US Chief of Protocol, Capricia Penavic Marshall's Protocol: the Power of Diplomacy and How to Make It Work for You, are the first two physical books I've borrowed since the system closed early in March.  It was exciting to have them, even though I periodically order big books, such as this new one, which is an extravagantly good academic history of England in the 15th C, Late Medieval England 1399-1509 by Professor A.J. Pollard. Also there are thousands of books in the apartment. It was the thrill of entering, even for a moment, one of my stomping ground libraries for the first time in 6 months that makes having these books exciting.

 

[Gigei]

21 hours ago, mushroomshirt said:

Started reading the first Wild Card book (Wild Cards I).  I am about halfway through.  Just finished the Turtle chapter.  I think maybe I am having trouble with the format.  Maybe I should have realized this, but I find the short stories very disjointed.  I guess I was expecting more of a common thread that would weave the stories together.  Instead it seems like a collection of separate short stories that don't really go together.

I enjoyed a few of the chapters quite a bit.  The sleeper (Roger Zelazny) and golden boy (Walter Jon Williams) chapters in particular I thought were outstanding.  The rest I could take or leave.  I wanted to like GRRM's turtle chapter and almost did.  In that chapter Dr. Tachyon was almost interesting in a Theon-in-a-Dance-With-Dragons kind of way, but even more pathetic somehow.  I didn't care about Tach the same way I care about Theon (and he is my favorite character in ASOIAF).

One other thing I thought was strange is that the effects of the Wild Card virus were never really clearly explained.  Nor were the terms Ace and Joker (maybe I missed this somewhere but I don't think so).  I think I figured it out through context but that lack of explanation was a bit jarring.  It also seemed like Dr. Tachyon's cure that reverses the virus 30% of the time sort of came out of the blue in some stories.  Sometimes it is important and sometimes it isn't even mentioned.  He has this cure right after the virus strikes, that seems pretty fast to develop.  I understand this is actually in one of my favorite chapters (the sleeper), but it affected the overall cohesiveness of the stories for me.

So far the chapters I liked were all at the beginning of the book (I also liked the Jetboy story a lot - Howard Waldrop).  I've maybe stuck with this book longer than I would have otherwise since I had a pretty good start with it.

Am I off base here?  Should I stick with the book or give up now?  I'm intrigued by the world, but would probably prefer a novel format rather than an anthology.  Are there any more novel-like editions of Wild Cards that I might like better?

I suggest you stick it out at least until the end of the book. You might find some other characters you like.

Zelazny is the best writer of the bunch and his stories are the best Wild Cards stories. You could go and check out only the books with Zelazny Sleeper stories in them... so that would be Books 2 and 5. Book 5 is amazing, IMO. Martin's stories are also good.

Tachy could create a cure faster than normal because his people were the ones who created the virus. I think I remember that in the first few days of the virus people simply had no idea what the heck was happening. People just randomly died, became monsters, or got superpowers. Later on people start to understand how the virus works but in the beginning, yeah it was chaos.

Stories can be hit or miss. I personally hated some parts (Sewer Jack, Fortunato) but it was worth reading the books because of the good parts.

[Luzifer's right hand]

Well this thread made me read the first three Galactic Center books. Some parts have not aged very well but the 3rd book is the best so far imo.

The first book I got seems to be the original version with events happening in the 20th century. The 2nd book changes that but the first event is still set in 2019 with the USSR still around. I guess changing such things in older near future books is rather pointless. Far future goodness starts showing up in the 3rd book.

[Ormond]

 Last night I finished Touba and the Meaning of the Night by Shahrnush Parsipur, an Iranian author. It's a novel focusing on the life story of a woman who lives from about 1880 to 1979 in Tehran. It has "magic realist" fantasy like moments, largely dealing with Touba's own interest in mysticism. It was a fascinating book which integrates Iran's history with Touba's life, even though she herself is never directly involved in the political turmoil that swirls around her. Touba herself was a fascinating and complex character -- as a young woman she initiates a divorce from her first husband and is interested in intellectual pursuits, unlike average Iranian women of her generation, and yet you understand how she has a hard time understanding the revolutionary feelings of young people when she is elderly. I feel like I understand Iranian culture much better after reading this book, both how the traditional culture operated and how rapid changes disrupted people's sense of themselves during the 20th century there. (Actually one of the things that surprised me the most was how often people would blame events like droughts and famines on their own personal sins.) I would recommend this book highly.

[hauberk]

On 8/17/2020 at 12:25 PM, hauberk said:

Finished Mississippi Roll.   Quite satisfied with it - it did not feature enough of my favorites, but still a great opportunity to revisit a marvelous shared world.  On immediately to Low Chicago.  It's got a nice twist that, I don't believe has been done with WIld Cards previously.  

Wrapped Low Chicago.  It was pretty different as Wild Cards books go.  Had some nice elements of nostalgia and some nice nods to Chicago history and to Wild Cards characters from various points in continuity.  Ultimately, though fairly disappointed in the limited impact on the status quo.  Time to see if Texas Hold 'Em brings more impact.

[ithanos]

Finally got around to a couple classics which I'd heard so much about but never read.

Foundation by Isaac Asimov: I liked the setup and there are some great ideas. The nature of the story though didn't lead to any character development that I could warm to until maybe the end.

Rendezvous with Rama by Arthur C. Clarke: Fantastic, I like how the enigmatic things are probed but remain largely enigmatic throughout the book, leaving more for reflection. I've heard criticisms it lacks characterisation but that didn't bother me - the main character for me was Rama itself. One part that did irk was the very colonial depiction of Cook's encounters - I'll put it down to the era that it was written.   

Then finished off with The Giver by Lois Lowry: Saw this recommended on a very science minded podcast that concluded with ruminations on the purpose of being and influences in life. Very interesting, I liked it. I understand its a generational book, recommended to middle schools in North America (mid 90s onward). I'm not sure if I had the wherewithal for this to have had any impact when I was around that age. Then again at that age we were given Animal Farm to read. 

[Wilbur]

Listened to Xenephon's Anabasis while cleaning up the neighbor's downed trees yesterday (we had a big wind storm, but still no rain).  Popular perception is that the entire book is about the march of The Ten Thousand down to the sea from Persia, but out of the seven books or chapters that make up Anabasis, only two of them really concern the march to the sea.

The first one focuses on how great Cyrus was, and since Xenephon also wrote the ecomium The Education of Cyrus, it feels like a warm-up for that book.  The second one is the death of Cyrus and the betrayal of the Greek captains to death by Tissaphernes.

Books three and four are the march to the sea, but for the most part, it reads like a travelogue rather than a military adventure.  They meet, and sometimes fight, with exotic people, but the Persians don't actually harry them for too long.  They eat some mad honey, and they drink wine out of straws, and they stop to have games every so often.  Not really what I remember.

The rest of the book, at least half, is once they get back to the territory of Greek-speaking people.  There The Ten Thousand act like combination terrorists/looters/brigands/extortionists/mercenaries for the rest of the book.  Life was tough back then.

But by far the biggest element of the book that I had forgotten was that it really is just a huge collection of speeches.  Every story is punctuated by a speech from one person, and sometimes two speeches.  Most of the Greek histories are full of speeches, but for a popular adventure book, Anabasis has way, way too many speeches.  Everyone has to justify their position, and given that The Ten Thousand were left effectively leaderless after the murder of the captains, I get that the lieutenants and subalterns had to convince the army to do things.  But my sainted aunt, there are just so many speeches.

[Luzifer's right hand]

On 8/28/2020 at 3:18 AM, ithanos said:

Finally got around to a couple classics which I'd heard so much about but never read.

Foundation by Isaac Asimov: I liked the setup and there are some great ideas. The nature of the story though didn't lead to any character development that I could warm to until maybe the end.

Rendezvous with Rama by Arthur C. Clarke: Fantastic, I like how the enigmatic things are probed but remain largely enigmatic throughout the book, leaving more for reflection. I've heard criticisms it lacks characterisation but that didn't bother me - the main character for me was Rama itself. One part that did irk was the very colonial depiction of Cook's encounters - I'll put it down to the era that it was written.   

Then finished off with The Giver by Lois Lowry: Saw this recommended on a very science minded podcast that concluded with ruminations on the purpose of being and influences in life. Very interesting, I liked it. I understand its a generational book, recommended to middle schools in North America (mid 90s onward). I'm not sure if I had the wherewithal for this to have had any impact when I was around that age. Then again at that age we were given Animal Farm to read. 

Personally I recommend not reading any of the Rama sequels. 

[Wilbur]

On 8/27/2020 at 6:18 PM, ithanos said:

Finally got around to a couple classics which I'd heard so much about but never read.

Foundation by Isaac Asimov: I liked the setup and there are some great ideas. The nature of the story though didn't lead to any character development that I could warm to until maybe the end.

Rendezvous with Rama by Arthur C. Clarke: Fantastic, I like how the enigmatic things are probed but remain largely enigmatic throughout the book, leaving more for reflection. I've heard criticisms it lacks characterisation but that didn't bother me - the main character for me was Rama itself. One part that did irk was the very colonial depiction of Cook's encounters - I'll put it down to the era that it was written.   

Then finished off with The Giver by Lois Lowry: Saw this recommended on a very science minded podcast that concluded with ruminations on the purpose of being and influences in life. Very interesting, I liked it. I understand its a generational book, recommended to middle schools in North America (mid 90s onward). I'm not sure if I had the wherewithal for this to have had any impact when I was around that age. Then again at that age we were given Animal Farm to read. 

It is interesting to consider now, at a distance of time, how little character development went into a lot of the Golden Age authors' works.  Clark, Asimov, etc. had interesting ideas, but the characters do not in any way drive the book.  Heinlein is sort of an exception, but even his books are very much idea-driven - he was just better at writing characters with the slightest bit of depth.  I also tend to think that the juveniles of the Golden Age sometimes worked better as entertainment just because they did usually have characters beyond simple cardboard cut outs.

My daughter did The Giver in school, and so I read it along with her.  It is a good book, but I am not sure that it is a better book than many other options.  Since the time and effort used in school is so limited and such a precious commodity, I thought that there might be other books of more fundamental value that the students could have read.

[polishgenius]

I read The Giver when I was school age and I thought it was absolute shite though it was so long ago that I can't really remember why.

Our big school-age book was Of Mice and Men. Had such an effect that not only did the kids who usually had no interest in reading and usually came in having not read the chapters we were supposed to have read at home finish the entire book ahead of time, but then they came in without the book coz they'd passed it on to friends in a different class who got a different book.

[Kyll.Ing.]

4 hours ago, Wilbur said:

It is interesting to consider now, at a distance of time, how little character development went into a lot of the Golden Age authors' works.  Clark, Asimov, etc. had interesting ideas, but the characters do not in any way drive the book.  Heinlein is sort of an exception, but even his books are very much idea-driven - he was just better at writing characters with the slightest bit of depth.  I also tend to think that the juveniles of the Golden Age sometimes worked better as entertainment just because they did usually have characters beyond simple cardboard cut outs.

I noticed this the last time I read Rendezvous with Rama myself too. The human characters mostly ... just are there. All the spectacular stuff that happens is things they observe, not things they do. And whenever a new situation shows up, which might warrant a different set of skills from any of the characters, a new characters enters the story out of nowhere, they do their thing, and then aren't mentioned much again. Rama is very much the main character in that story, and I daresay it's the only interesting one too. It's a really interesting one, though, so it makes the book a very enjoyable read nonetheless.

[ithanos]

10 hours ago, Luzifer's right hand said:

Personally I recommend not reading any of the Rama sequels. 

Well noted thank you. I read some reviews of the sequels and it seems Clarke may have over compensated on introducing some human drama. I'm more than happy not to sully my enjoyment of the first book by looking any further. 

8 hours ago, Wilbur said:

It is interesting to consider now, at a distance of time, how little character development went into a lot of the Golden Age authors' works.  Clark, Asimov, etc. had interesting ideas, but the characters do not in any way drive the book.  Heinlein is sort of an exception, but even his books are very much idea-driven - he was just better at writing characters with the slightest bit of depth.  I also tend to think that the juveniles of the Golden Age sometimes worked better as entertainment just because they did usually have characters beyond simple cardboard cut outs.

I would have to concur. Even from my modest reading of the big three, I recall many great ideas, both technological and space-opera spanning - but no characters stand out. In contrast I can fondly recall several characters from the early works of Herbert, Le Guin, and Zelazny. It almost appears that the dominance of Asimov, Clarke and Heinlein encouraged the new wave authors of the 60s and 70s to experiment and become inventive with their storytelling.

[Teng Ai Hui]

Recently, I finished Dennis E Taylor's Bobiverse trilogy.  

Next, I plan to try 88 Names by Matt Ruff, who also wrote Lovecraft Country.

[AncalagonTheBlack]

Finished two books this moth : City of Bones by Martha Wells (9\10) and Blood of an Exile by Brian Naslund (8/10) .

Now started reading One Man: A City of Fallen Gods Novel by Harry Connolly.

 

 

[hauberk]

19 hours ago, polishgenius said:

I read The Giver when I was school age and I thought it was absolute shite though it was so long ago that I can't really remember why.

Our big school-age book was Of Mice and Men. Had such an effect that not only did the kids who usually had no interest in reading and usually came in having not read the chapters we were supposed to have read at home finish the entire book ahead of time, but then they came in without the book coz they'd passed it on to friends in a different class who got a different book.

I had absolutely the opposite reaction - love to read and always have.  Steinbeck, Hemingway, Buck and all of the other canon authors left me cold.  For the most part, I took in what I needed to from class discussions.  The saving grace for me to have any appreciation for American "classics" was William Faulkner.

I read a piece recently, that I can't find now, that chronicled how so many of those canon works were out of print or low print run until the end of WWII when the US Military decided that the occupation troops needed something to read and printed massive numbers of copies of many of, what are today, considered American classics and are taught as canon.  Just one more thing to blame on the military industrial complex.  

[mushroomshirt]

On 8/26/2020 at 5:42 AM, Peadar said:

There are several different Wild Card formats. You might prefer the mosaic books better, since they are a single novel written by a team of writers. Some of the later Wild Cards books are more coherent too. Once you've finished this one and you know the rules, more or less, give Inside Straight a try for a more connected plot.

I finished the 1st book.  I liked ghost girl, but I wasn't really wild about the rest of the book.  Still I picked up book #2 and am liking it a lot better.  I'm about 1/3 of the way through.  I like the common thread (threat from Tiamat) that is running through all the stories.  This is more like what I expected when I picked up book 1.  I can handle reading a Fortunato chapter here and there if it advances the story a bit.

On 8/26/2020 at 5:27 PM, Gigei said:

I suggest you stick it out at least until the end of the book. You might find some other characters you like.

Stories can be hit or miss. I personally hated some parts (Sewer Jack, Fortunato) but it was worth reading the books because of the good parts.

I almost put book #1 down after the Fortunato chapter.  Wow - that character did not age well.  Hard to imagine a writer in 2020 writing him.

[williamjm]

8 minutes ago, mushroomshirt said:

I almost put book #1 down after the Fortunato chapter.  Wow - that character did not age well.  Hard to imagine a writer in 2020 writing him.

I read the first book a few years ago and I think had a similar experience to yours, I found it even with some stories I liked and others such as the Fortunato one which I struggled to get through.

[Poobah]

About half way through We Are Legion (We Are Bob) and thoroughly enjoying it. Surprised this series had flown under my radar, but glad I heard about it now, I've already ordered the next two.