King Adrian Storm Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 Azor ahai is not the man who ended the long night, but the man who caused it. He plunged his sword through his wifes heart. I believe the theory that forging lightbringer cracked the moon and ushered in the long night. The story of how once there were 2 moons, but one traveled too close to the sun and cracked. It wasn't dragons that came out, but meteors from the moon that crashed down onto the earth. The moon being destroyed is perfect reasoning for the long night beginning. Now we know that the bloodstone emperor killed the Amethyst empress which started it all. It seems very odd that azor ahai and the bloodstone emperor have so much in common. They sacrifice a woman they care about with some sort of dark magic. I think they are the same person, and history has muddled the stories. Some of this info, I've gotten from LmL. Now Lucifer means Lightbringer the phrase is something very important to consider. Why would Grrm choose that name. Lucifer is the angel who convinced adam and eve to eat from the tree of knowledge, and ended up cursing the world. I think this is equal in translation to the event of the long night, and the sun hiding it's face for an entire generation. So if Azor ahai is supposed to be evil, what does that mean for the story? Many people question how the long night will begin. Something will have to happen to usher it in. I believe Stannis will burn Shireen as a sacrifice to the Lord of Light, and become Azor ahai, ushering in the long night by accident. He is the one who will start all of it. (A second theory could be he stabs mel). This will cause the second moon to crack as well. Which is why the prophecy states after the second long night there will come a summer that never ends, because only the sun will be left. I also believe Dany will be the prince that was promised, and Jon is the last hero. They will both end the long night together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 I'm not sure I buy all this, but the notion that Azor Ahai being the one to usher in the long night and the Lightbringer/Lucifer connection is an interesting thought. If Shireen is the Nissa Nissa connection of Stannis, then this could coincide with some of the notion of Stannis being the blue eyed king who casts no shadow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 1 hour ago, King Adrian Storm said: Azor ahai is not the man who ended the long night, but the man who caused it. He plunged his sword through his wifes heart. I believe the theory that forging lightbringer cracked the moon and ushered in the long night. The story of how once there were 2 moons, but one traveled too close to the sun and cracked. It wasn't dragons that came out, but meteors from the moon that crashed down onto the earth. The moon being destroyed is perfect reasoning for the long night beginning. Now we know that the bloodstone emperor killed the Amethyst empress which started it all. It seems very odd that azor ahai and the bloodstone emperor have so much in common. They sacrifice a woman they care about with some sort of dark magic. I think they are the same person, and history has muddled the stories. Some of this info, I've gotten from LmL. Now Lucifer means Lightbringer the phrase is something very important to consider. Why would Grrm choose that name. Lucifer is the angel who convinced adam and eve to eat from the tree of knowledge, and ended up cursing the world. I think this is equal in translation to the event of the long night, and the sun hiding it's face for an entire generation. So if Azor ahai is supposed to be evil, what does that mean for the story? Many people question how the long night will begin. Something will have to happen to usher it in. I believe Stannis will burn Shireen as a sacrifice to the Lord of Light, and become Azor ahai, ushering in the long night by accident. He is the one who will start all of it. (A second theory could be he stabs mel). This will cause the second moon to crack as well. Which is why the prophecy states after the second long night there will come a summer that never ends, because only the sun will be left. I also believe Dany will be the prince that was promised, and Jon is the last hero. They will both end the long night together. Hrm, just to be sure I checked and the name Lucifer only appears 6 times in all the books as the name of characters who seem very minor. While I agree that LmL has done a great job weaving old real world mythology and legend with Planetos' history and folk lore, GRRM has stated that magic is what's wrong with the world he created and magic will fix it. LmL, as I understand what I can, relies heavily upon the symbolism of celestial activity. I don't think we can just discard the fact that real dragons exist in ASOIAF not as symbols of meteors, but real creatures. From the beginning I have read the legend of Azor Ahai to be a tie in with this commonly held idea that kinslaying is the worst of all possible evil acts. I recently ran across some fun information regarding Damascus steel in the New York Times. This article from 1981, entitled "The Mystery of Damascus Steel Appears Solved" explores modern possibilities for making this legendary metal. Among the historical things mentioned are the legends for how Damascus Steel was quenched. Cited from Metropolitan Museum of Art the quenching or cooling of the steel is how the steel acquired magical properties (yes, Damascus, not Valyrian Steel). This cooling process was said to include dragon's blood, donkey urine, the urine of red-haired boys or that of a 3 year-old goat fed only ferns for 3 days. The article points to a myriad of countries and times these cooling ideas were held and incorporated. What I found most interesting was the legend from Asia Minor wherein the blade must be cooled to attain a deep purple color then "plunged into the body of a muscular slave so that his strength would be transferred to the sword." Where have we heard about human sacrifice in the tempering of a sword before? Much as I enjoy ideas and mystery surrounding Azor Ahai and Lightbringer, I think our history-loving author simply wove these ancient legends into his world because they are really cool stories. While moons may yet crack and kin is sure to be slain, Lightbringer and Azor Ahai may really be nothing but legends even on Planetos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annalee Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 There will be a few people who will handle the role of hero-leader who will lead their people through the Long Night. Stannis Baratheon is but one of them. Yes, if he burns Shireen, then she is his Nissa Nissa. Should Jon Snow kills his beloved little sister Arya, then she becomes his Nissa Nissa. The pattern has been established when Daenerys Targaryen mercy killed Khal Drogo. Drogo was her NN. The darkest theme of this story is the need for everybody to sacrifice that which they loved the most in order to save the world of the living. So it has to be a big sacrifice for everybody. It's not a sacrifice if only one person gives up what they love. Everybody will be required to. This being a really bleak and dark story, you can count on one renegade refusing to sacrifice the person he loves the most. A lot of people will die because of that choice and hopefully the person who refused and his family will too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megorova Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 4 hours ago, King Adrian Storm said: Now Lucifer means Lightbringer the phrase is something very important to consider. Why would Grrm choose that name. Lucifer is the angel who convinced adam and eve to eat from the tree of knowledge, and ended up cursing the world. In the Bible Lucifer is not only Satan's name prior his Fall, it's also one of Jesus' titles. Spoiler https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer "Lucifer (/ˈluːsɪfər/ 'light-bringer', corresponding to the Greek name Ἑωσφόρος, 'dawn-bringer', for the same planet) is a Latin name for the planet Venus in its morning appearances" "Interpretations of a similar term in the Hebrew Bible, translated in the King James Version as "Lucifer" as a proper name, led to a Christian tradition of applying the name Lucifer, and its associated stories of a fall from heaven, to Satan, but modern scholarship generally translates the term in the relevant Bible passage, (Isaiah 14:12), as "morning star" or "shining one" rather than as a proper name, "Lucifer".[1]" "In Greco-Roman civilization, it was often personified and considered a god[7] and in some versions considered a son of Aurora (the Dawn)." "As a result, "Lucifer has become a byword for Satan or the devil in the church and in popular literature",[3] as in Dante Alighieri's Inferno, Joost van den Vondel's Lucifer, and John Milton's Paradise Lost.[53]However, unlike the English word, the Latin word was not used exclusively in this way and was applied to others also, including Jesus: the Latin (Vulgate) text of Revelation 22:16 (where English translations refer to Jesus as "the bright morning star") has stella matutina, not lucifer, but the term lucifer is applied to Jesus in the Easter Exultet and in a hymn by Hilary of Poitiers that contains the phrase: "Tu verus mundi lucifer" (You are the true light bringer of the world).[81]" "However, the understanding of the morning star in Isaiah 14:12 as a metaphor referring to a king of Babylon continued also to exist among Christians. Theodoret of Cyrus (c. 393 – c. 457) wrote that Isaiah calls the king "morning star", not as being the star, but as having had the illusion of being it.[89] The same understanding is shown in Christian translations of the passage, which in English generally use "morning star" rather than treating the word as a proper name, "Lucifer". So too in other languages, such as French,[90] German,[91] Portuguese,[92] and Spanish.[93] Even the Vulgate text in Latin is printed with lower-case lucifer (morning star), not upper-case Lucifer (proper name).[5]" The wielder of Dawn sword is titled the Sword of the Morning. Venus is the Morning Star, and it's name in Latin is Lucifer. Venus is a guardian planet of Libra. Jon Snow is Libra. GRRM in the books gave enough information to figure out that Jon was born on September 23 (if he used the date of autumnal equinox of 1983 as a basis for 283, year of Jon's birth). Dawn of Daynes and Azor Ahai's Lightbringer is the same sword. Jon is 1/8 Dayne thru Aegon V's mother, Dyanna Dayne. So Jon, who is Azor Ahai reborn, is a descendant of the first Azor Ahai (and Dany too, and Rhaego), and, same as his predecessor, he's going to fight against the Others with the same sword. Azor Ahai definitely didn't caused the First Long Night. Furthremore, it seems likely that he was a son of the Amethyst Empress, not her killer. Daynes, as descendants of the Amethyst Empress, explains why some of them have Valyrian coloring, such as Ashara's purple eyes, or Edrik's blond hair, even though GRRM said that they are not Valyrians. If Valyrians themselves are also descendants of Azor Ahai, same as Daynes, then it would be wrong to say that Daynes are Valyrians or have Valyrian ancestry, instead they and Valyrians have a common ancestor - Azor Ahai, and his mother, the Amethyst Empress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastWolf Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 14 hours ago, Annalee said: Should Jon Snow kills his beloved little sister Arya, then she becomes his Nissa Nissa. The pattern has been established when Daenerys Targaryen mercy killed Khal Drogo. Drogo was her NN. It could have been Ygritte but that chance went.Now other possible candidates including Arya are Meli and Dany too. https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/157273-ice-longclaw-dawn-azor-azhai-and-lightbringer/ 14 hours ago, Megorova said: . GRRM in the books gave enough information to figure out that Jon was born on September 23 (if he used the date of autumnal equinox of 1983 as a basis for 283, year of Jon's birth). Dawn of Daynes and Azor Ahai's Lightbringer is the same sword. Jon is 1/8 Dayne thru Aegon V's mother, Dyanna Dayne. So Jon, who is Azor Ahai reborn, is a descendant of the first Azor Ahai (and Dany too, and Rhaego), and, same as his predecessor, he's going to fight against the Others with the same sword. That is what I said in my post the other day (below link) but people always move to dany and her dragons. https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/157273-ice-longclaw-dawn-azor-azhai-and-lightbringer/ But i also suspect that there will be more than one AAR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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