Why is Renly seemingly disliked in the community?

[Loose Bolt]

I assume that when Renly was member of small council his job would have been enforcing law and order in King's Landing. But he had lost control of city watch bc he did not even try to carry out his duties. Same way his support by Stormlords seemed to be rather weak. Or his main support came from Reach. So Renly was neither very effective Master of Laws nor overlord of Stormlands.

[frenin]

29 minutes ago, Loose Bolt said:

I assume that when Renly was member of small council his job would have been enforcing law and order in King's Landing. But he had lost control of city watch bc he did not even try to carry out his duties

Not once, the Master of laws has been associated with patrolling and having control over the City Watch.

The City Watch seems directly under the King. 

 

29 minutes ago, Loose Bolt said:

Same way his support by Stormlords seemed to be rather weak.

How rather weak?? The Stormlords answered to his call and they loved him very well.

 

 

29 minutes ago, Loose Bolt said:

Or his main support came from Reach.

Well, that's just maths, the Stormlands can't field even third  of the men the Reach can. It's not really difficult.

 

 

29 minutes ago, Loose Bolt said:

So Renly was neither very effective Master of Laws nor overlord of Stormlands.

None of that seems really true.

[Ran]

3 minutes ago, Loose Bolt said:

I assume that when Renly was member of small council his job would have been enforcing law and order in King's Landing.

The master of laws is an advisor to the king on matters of law, not a justiciar or overseer of justice for King's Landing. There's like ten masters of law mentioned in Fire and Blood and not a one of them seems to do more than be a small council member who opines on matters of law. Note that Ned never thinks Renly shirks in his duties, nor does he try to review his work, and what have you; he reviews Littlefinger's books, he wonders why the master of ships isn't around to do his job, but Renly gets no similar criticism or attention.

This is no doubt partially an artifact of GRRM not having much depth to the law and jurisprudence in Westeros.

3 minutes ago, Loose Bolt said:

But he had lost control of city watch bc he did not even try to carry out his duties.

The Master of Laws is not in charge of the City Watch.

3 minutes ago, Loose Bolt said:

Same way his support by Stormlords seemed to be rather weak.

What @frenin says.

 

[King17]

11 hours ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

I actually want to add more. As far as the never won a battle comment, he would have. Without a sorceress, make any argument that Renly wouldn't have won that battle. Give me your reasoning. Now, quotes that prove that your sources are probably either homophobic or don't like that Renly doesn't conform to gender norms. None of his detractors say anything about his intelligence. They all insult his sexuality or gender expression. Here we go : 
Cressen : "The bold little boy with wild black hair and laughing eyes was a man grown now, one-and-twenty, and still he played his games. Look at me, I'm a king, Cressen thought sadly. Oh, Renly, Renly, dear sweet child, do you know what you are doing? And would you care if you did? Is there anyone who cares for him but me?" - Actually this one doesn't even really insult Renly. It does suggest he is playing a game, but so is Stannis and is based on when he was 8 years old...pretty typical of an old man thinking of his child by the way (my dad does the same thing and I'm 33). The game of thrones is a dangerous one that requires a large army and smart political maneuvering (both of which Renly has over Stannis). 
Donal Noye : "Robert was the true steel. Stannis is pure iron, black and hard and strong, yes, but brittle, the way iron gets. He'll break before he bends. And Renly, that one, he's copper, bright and shiny, pretty to look at but not worth all that much at the end of the day." - Again, this is based on when Renly was like 6 years old, lol. But I digress, obviously pointing out again that Renly likes pretty things which could be either homophobic or just generally against people who against gender norms. There isn't much substance to his argument as he doesn't know Renly essentially at all as an adult. 
Olenna : "He knew how to dress and he knew how to smile and he knew how to bathe, and somehow he got the notion that this made him fit to be king." - Again, this doesn't actually insult Renly's intelligence or ability to be a good King, it just insults that he wears nice clothes and is....good at making people love him? So again, could be homophobic or against Renly's gender expression, certainly does nothing to suggest he is actually bad at anything. Also, has Olenna ever been on Renly's war councils? I doubt it. 
Stannis : "What has Renly ever done to earn a throne? He sits in council and jests with Littlefinger, and at tourneys he dons his splendid suit of armor and allows himself to be knocked off his horse by a better man. That is the sum of my brother Renly, who thinks he ought to be king." - Renly lost to the Hound, who won the whole damn tourney, during the one tourney we watched and is mentioned by Sansa as performing well. So we have direct evidence of part of this being false (what is he supposed to win the damn tourney or be worthless?) His jests with Littlefinger are part of a political strategy. Tyrion, a well beloved character, jests with Littlefinger. And now I will argue my counter point : "What the fuck has Stannis ever done to earn a throne?" - Lord of Raventree Hall. - So here is my honest question, if Daenerys shows up, will Stannis bend a knee? How about to Aegon? No right. You know he won't. Which means Stannis has no more right to sit the Iron Throne than Renly does. None. 0. His entire argument is that he is next in line, but in fact Daenerys is first in line (for sure) or Aegon (maybe). Stannis is a horrible politician (and only Davos convinces him to be decent ....at the end of the third book) and not being loved...is a sign you aren't fit to be King. As several characters mention, if Eddard had somehow convinced Robert Stannis should have been his heir, it would have led to war. Many characters mention Stannis would have gone to war no matter what. 

Okay, I'm done. There is my response

His generals would've won the battle for him as for the quotes mentioned above they have nothing to do with renly being gay They have everything to do with renly not being all that bright.

[James Steller]

3 hours ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

 

As far as Olenna goes, it seems like you are kind of supporting my point here since you aren't suggesting Olenna even disliked him. Cressen barely insulted him, and his main point is just that Renly should support Stannis who Cressen loves. 

 

Oh, I think Renly will make changes. He seems progressive in what little we see of him. A good example was when he put Brienne on his King's Guard. This is a progressive move. He is also desperately searching for Barristan Selmy. He wants people with honor in his new regime. I think Renly would have more closely resembled an Aegon V then Stannis...but perhaps in Aegon III you could be a little right. I think a Stannis Kingship, especially say if nothing else had happened and Stannis had just been handed power, would have looked like something in between Aegon III and Maegor the Cruel. He murdered his brother. He murdered a castellan. He wanted to murder his nephew who was only saved by Davos Seaworth. I, much like you think of Renly, don't hate Stannis, nor do I think he is a monster. However, he is a gray character. His idea of justice will lead to more innocents dying. Going to war over the murder of single person is stupid. Stannis is just the kind of person to do that, even though he himself murdered his own brother. Now, I don't want you to get me wrong, again, I like Stannis to an extent. But honestly, I think he is a truly awful politician. You act like politics will cease just because Stannis I presume murders everyone currently in politics. Cortney Penrose is a great example of what Stannis has done when politicians disagree with him. He just kills them. Oh, and do you remember when he burns the people's current gods and then sacrifices those that don't want his god's to R'hllor. Or did we all forget that he is supporting an extremist religion to replace the religions of his followers and was perfectly okay with Lord Sunglass (don't make me look up his name) and others being sacrificed simply because they refused to support a King who would burn their gods. They tried to leave peacefully. Stannis had them burned to death. Your suggestions seems to be that Stannis is progressive, looking to fix and advance society, but R'hllor is the opposite of progressive and it is the religion he is supporting. It, especially the version supported by Melisandre and Selyse, is one that seems to suggest all other religions much be replaced and be burned. Aegon V, who you mentioned, would support freedom of religion (something I could see Renly doing as well). Also, Aegon V central deal was trying to give the small folks more rights essentially (a truly progressive agenda). When has Stannis mentioned doing something like this? He is only obsessed with becoming King (because it is his right!!! according to him) and I guess by the fifth book, in protecting the realm from the Others (this is certainly a good thing, like I said he is gray). Okay, I'm done. You are clearly a Stannis-stan, so nothing I will say here will change your mind. I think Renly would have made the best King of all the options we had; but I'm also not a Renly-stan. I think I've already stated my reasons why I think Renly would be a good king above. 

The Olenna thing could simply be that even though she likes him, she didn’t consider him a great candidate to be king. Why would she lie about that opinion? She gives zero f***s and is also a very shrewd woman. 
 

As to what you pointed out, I might be a fan of Stannis, but I’m not blind to his flaws. If he had zero flaws, then he’s just a Martin Sue. I agree that his endorsement of Rhlorr is a big hurdle for his cause, and it will isolate him further from the people of Westeros. But he can change. He barely relies on Mel by book five. As you said, he’s all about the Others as the true threat and is only making war on the Boltons to unite the North again. He refuses to burn men multiple times, and he trusts the advice of Davos or Jon Snow rather than Melisandre. He is told to his face that he’s wrong by both men and he listens to them. He respects people who are honest with him. 
 

I do admit that he’d be at risk of losing his way if he did become king (If I had to guess, his rule would probably be a mix between Aegon III and Maekar Targaryen), and I doubt he’ll ever sit the Iron Throne, but I’m hoping that he’ll continue his upward climb and maybe die a hero in battle against the Others, the king who cared.

[Ran]

41 minutes ago, King17 said:

His generals would've won the battle for him as for the quotes mentioned above they have nothing to do with renly being gay They have everything to do with renly not being all that bright.

The quotes above are two men who knew Renly as a child, and who manifestly are not suggesting he isn't "bright" -- indeed, Cressen speaks of him having a lively imagination, which you generally don't associate with dullards. And as to Olenna, every man alive is an idiot according to her. She is a misandrist.

[Peach King]

Stannis is a fan favorite and Renly had the unfortunate malady of being a quickly killed off tertiary character who opposed The One True King .That's basically it.

[Arthur Peres]

I can only talk for myself, but here some of my reasons

Renly comes across really gross with his friendship with Littlefinger and the insults towards a kid like Shireen. He is also too arrogant and think too high of himself without any achiviments of notice, in fact he overstand himself thinking that Stannis or Dorne would come to his cause, without he even contacting them.

He also comes across really fake, as Loras later reveals Renly's thoughts about Brienne.

To make matters worse, Renly behaviour during the war was sit on his ass and let a the bodies pile up, so he could sit on the throne, he moved slowly and even though he had the numbers to end everything once and for all he did nothing and died like a dog.

Renly is very rarely potrait in good light in the books wich does not help his case. Characters that interact with him from POV have very negative view of him like Ned and Catelyn, and non POV characters that knew him well do not have nice things to say about him either, like Stannis, Olenna, Dona and so on.

The few characters that have something nice to say about Renly are Loras and Brienne and both were in love with him.

[The Young Maester]

I genuinely think Renly was a nice character, but thats all he was. All you need to do is look at his performance as master of laws. He attended the small council to jest with Baelish. As master of laws we havent seen him try to bring in new ideas for the council or attempt to do something about the corruption of the city watch, which obviously would’ve been useless anyways because Robert didn’t care and Janos Slynt was in littlefingers pocket. But still, if he never did take his post as master of laws seriously what makes people think he’d make a decent king. He might just be another Robert. 

[Ran]

31 minutes ago, The Young Maester said:

He attended the small council to jest with Baelish.

We also see him being pretty sharp with Slynt. He advises Robert on the Dany issue. Ned has many meetings with the small council which we do not see, and all we seem to know is that Renly attended and participated in all of them. 

31 minutes ago, The Young Maester said:

As master of laws we havent seen him try to bring in new ideas for the council

Find some example of a master of laws bringing any new ideas to the small council, and bear in mind we get a total of ... what, three small council meetings depicted? We have no idea what he did at all the ones we did not see.

31 minutes ago, The Young Maester said:

or attempt to do something about the corruption of the city watch,

This is not his purview, and as you yourself note what was the point?

31 minutes ago, The Young Maester said:

But still, if he never did take his post as master of laws seriously

Other than the fact that he did his job, attending meetings, speaking up and offering his views, what says he didn't take it seriously? That he liked to banter is hardly a sign of a lack of taking it seriously. Littlefinger was considered an exceptional master of coin (though no one quite understood how that came to be the case) and he, too, liked to quip his way through meetings, There's no real association between one's manners at the small council and one's ability.

 

[Willam Stark]

Most of Renly's haters are Stannis and they hate him primarly because he wanted to steal the throne from the rightful king, "The One True King" and of course there are homophobic people. For my part, even though I kinda like Stannis, I don't bear any hatred toward Renly, I just don't care about him and he already made good points for the Dany's case back when she was pregnant of Drogo. Both her and Viserys should have been killed by Robert's assassins in order to secure his position on the Iron Throne, while they are alive, they are a threat for him. I don't know if would have been a good leader or not, the fact that he was liked by many people doesn't mean anything.

[Minsc]

4 hours ago, James Steller said:

The Olenna thing could simply be that even though she likes him, she didn’t consider him a great candidate to be king. Why would she lie about that opinion? She gives zero f***s and is also a very shrewd woman. 

Because Renly no longer offered any benefit to her at the time and acknowledging she supported a treason against Joffrey would negatively effect her.  Olenna likes to pretend she is smarter and shewder than she really is.  Doesn't she say she dropped her Targaryen prince when in reality he dropped her because he liked dudes?  An act that I could see souring her on Renly and his marriage to her granddaughter with his preferences. 

 

2 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

The few characters that have something nice to say about Renly are Loras and Brienne and both were in love with him.

We know that people like Randyll Tarly, Mathis Rowan, and Penrose all highly respected/loved him it just we are never in a POV where they would express their favor of him.  Unlike Stannis who has his personal puppy (Davos) given a POV to repeatedly praise and adore him.

2 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

haracters that interact with him from POV have very negative view of him like Ned and Catelyn

When does Ned have a negative opinion on him?  Catelyn is frustrated with him, but not because he is a terrible person but because he is opposed to her son.  If Baelor Breakspear was opposed to her family, Catelyn would equally think negatively against him.

[Arthur Peres]

3 hours ago, Minsc said:

When does Ned have a negative opinion on him? 

Lord Renly laughed. “We’re fortunate my brother Stannis is not with us. Remember the time he proposed to outlaw brothels? The king asked him if perhaps he’d like to outlaw eating, shitting, and breathing while he was at it. If truth be told, I ofttimes wonder how Stannis ever got that ugly daughter of his. He goes to his marriage bed like a man marching to a battlefield, with a grim look in his eyes and a determination to do his duty.”

Ned had not joined the laughter. “I wonder about your brother Stannis as well. I wonder when he intends to end his visit to Dragonstone and resume his seat on this council.”

“No doubt as soon as we’ve scourged all those whores into the sea,” Littlefinger replied, provoking more laughter. “I have heard quite enough about whores for one day,” Ned said, rising. “Until the morrow.”

3 hours ago, Minsc said:

Catelyn is frustrated with him, but not because he is a terrible person but because he is opposed to her son.  If Baelor Breakspear was opposed to her family, Catelyn would equally think negatively against him.

Catelyn is angry because Renly has the power to stop the civil war, but chooses to delay his march and let the blood flow along the realm, and would rather march and kill his own brother than against this main enemy and threat, the Lannisters. And those as serious flaws of character that revel a very ugly picture of the man.

3 hours ago, Minsc said:

Catelyn is frustrated with him, but not because he is a terrible person but because he is opposed to her son.  If Baelor Breakspear was opposed to her family, Catelyn would equally think negatively against him.

We are told by Penrose that they liked him, but themselfs never showed any signs of it, if anything they were fighting for another king before his body was cold.

[frenin]

13 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:

Lord Renly laughed. “We’re fortunate my brother Stannis is not with us. Remember the time he proposed to outlaw brothels? The king asked him if perhaps he’d like to outlaw eating, shitting, and breathing while he was at it. If truth be told, I ofttimes wonder how Stannis ever got that ugly daughter of his. He goes to his marriage bed like a man marching to a battlefield, with a grim look in his eyes and a determination to do his duty.”

Ned had not joined the laughter. “I wonder about your brother Stannis as well. I wonder when he intends to end his visit to Dragonstone and resume his seat on this council.”

“No doubt as soon as we’ve scourged all those whores into the sea,” Littlefinger replied, provoking more laughter. “I have heard quite enough about whores for one day,” Ned said, rising. “Until the morrow.”

That's not having a bad negative opinion of him, it's just Ned not laughing...

 

 

14 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:

Catelyn is angry because Renly has the power to stop the civil war, but chooses to delay his march and let the blood flow along the realm, and would rather march and kill his own brother than against this main enemy and threat, the Lannisters.

Nah, she's just angry because Renly opposes Robb and refuses to help, Cat doesn't really care about the civil war but about her family not dying there.

He didn't rather kill his own brother, his own brother attacked his castle and threatened him with death.

 

16 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:

And those as serious flaws of character that revel a very ugly picture of the man.

That he's shrewd, i don't really see it as a flaw.

Even he who, as people keep repeating, hasn't won a battle, knows that it's way easier to defeat your enemies without much effort after they had tired themselves.

 

 

21 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:

We are told by Penrose that they liked him, but themselfs never showed any signs of it, if anything they were fighting for another king before his body was cold.

Penrose has better info than us and has literally zero reasons to lie, and Renly hasn't come up in a conversation, they were fighting for another king weeks after his death... Because... He was dead. Tarly himself did show signs of appreaciating Renly.

But Renly's name is never tainted and or bersmiched and there is even a song about him.

[chrisdaw]

Quote

The old woman turned back to Sansa. "It's treason, I warned them, Robert has two sons, and Renly has an older brother, how can he possibly have any claim to that ugly iron chair?

Quote

 

"I will defend King Tommen with all my strength, I swear it. I will give my life for his if need be. But I will never betray Renly, by word or deed. He was the king that should have been. He was the best of them."

The best dressed perhaps, Jaime thought, but for once he did not say it.

 

A world full of Renlys wouldn't work.

[Arthur Peres]

58 minutes ago, frenin said:

That's not having a bad negative opinion of him, it's just Ned not laughing...

 

Ned was pissed enough to end the council there without any resolution, it's very clear that he took the japes as negative, just as when Renly mocked Shireen Ned also took it negative.

59 minutes ago, frenin said:

Nah, she's just angry because Renly opposes Robb and refuses to help, Cat doesn't really care about the civil war but about her family not dying there.

He didn't rather kill his own brother, his own brother attacked his castle and threatened him with death.

Stannis putted SE under siege but had no hope on taking the castle, as even after taking Renly's army he still couldn't.

Renly got two optios from his bannerman and choose to fight Stannis rather than the Lannisters. Catelyn is pissed for good reason, and as if things aren't bad enough with Renly ignoring his brother claim, marching against him while ignoring the Lannisters, Renly decides to hold her against her will to send her off with a threat...

I do not like Stannis either, but both brothers went out of their way to attack each other, and that show a huge flaw on both of them.

1 hour ago, frenin said:

That he's shrewd, i don't really see it as a flaw.

Even he who, as people keep repeating, hasn't won a battle, knows that it's way easier to defeat your enemies without much effort after they had tired themselves.

That is a huge flaw. When Caesar died and his faction started to fight among itself with bickering with Octavian and Mark Anthony, Brutus had the oportunity to strike and end both of them, but just like Renly he sitted on his hands and waited... we know how his story ends, and we also know how Renly story end.

Renly had all the momento, strenght and position to end everything and choose not to act.

1 hour ago, frenin said:

But Renly's name is never tainted and or bersmiched and there is even a song about him.

Do they even belive on the Lannister propaganda? They surely do not seem to belive on ghost stories.

The Tyrells cleary know is BS and roll with it to clear their own name in the process as Marg even cries during the song... is not genuine at all. Renly was their instrument to fufill their agenda.

1 hour ago, frenin said:

Tarly himself did show signs of appreaciating Renly.

Can you show me the quote?

[Lord of Raventree Hall]

10 hours ago, King17 said:

His generals would've won the battle for him as for the quotes mentioned above they have nothing to do with renly being gay They have everything to do with renly not being all that bright.

Lol how? None of the quotes mention intelligence. The fact that you associate jesting, liking games, or being pretty is on you. Tyrion likes to jest and is intelligent. Varys loves silks and perfumes and Petyr Baelish loves clothes, and both have capable intellects (even if I do not like them). Many people who loves games (although again Cressen was referring to child Renly pretty directly) including those who are intelligent. And knowing how to bathe and dress doesn't suggest you are not intelligent either. Again, you are just saying things without any evidence and probably showing your bias against men who dress well, bathe, and like pretty things. 

[Wisconsin]

Renly is generally ignored.  Most people have no opinion on this guy.

[Minsc]

2 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

Lord Renly laughed. “We’re fortunate my brother Stannis is not with us. Remember the time he proposed to outlaw brothels? The king asked him if perhaps he’d like to outlaw eating, shitting, and breathing while he was at it. If truth be told, I ofttimes wonder how Stannis ever got that ugly daughter of his. He goes to his marriage bed like a man marching to a battlefield, with a grim look in his eyes and a determination to do his duty.”

Ned had not joined the laughter. “I wonder about your brother Stannis as well. I wonder when he intends to end his visit to Dragonstone and resume his seat on this council.”

“No doubt as soon as we’ve scourged all those whores into the sea,” Littlefinger replied, provoking more laughter. “I have heard quite enough about whores for one day,” Ned said, rising. “Until the morrow.”

That passage doesn't show Ned having a negative opinion on Renly.  It doesn't even show Ned having an opinion on Renly.

 

2 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

Catelyn is angry because Renly has the power to stop the civil war, but chooses to delay his march and let the blood flow along the realm, and would rather march and kill his own brother than against this main enemy and threat, the Lannisters. And those as serious flaws of character that revel a very ugly picture of the man.

No, Catelyn is angry because his actions negatively impact Robb.  Renly's decision to march slowly is absolutely sound both tactically and politically.  If Robb could have done the same with Renly being the one in need than she would absolutely advise Robb to do the same.  Renly's actions show neither flaw or an ugly picture of him.

2 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

We are told by Penrose that they liked him, but themselfs never showed any signs of it, if anything they were fighting for another king before his body was cold.

We never have any POV close to either of them to see signs of it, but we have no reason to doubt Penrose's words.  Most people don't continue to fight for dead people so them siding with another king after Renly's death means nothing.

[frenin]

10 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:

Ned was pissed enough to end the council there without any resolution, it's very clear that he took the japes as negative, just as when Renly mocked Shireen Ned also took it negative.

I don't know how it's clear, we're in Ned's mind, he just didn't find it funny, if Ned had thought ill of them, he would've said, let alone thought about it.

 

 

11 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:

Stannis putted SE under siege but had no hope on taking the castle, as even after taking Renly's army he still couldn't.

He was still besieging Renly's own castle.

 

13 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:

Renly got two optios from his bannerman and choose to fight Stannis rather than the Lannisters. Catelyn is pissed for good reason, and as if things aren't bad enough with Renly ignoring his brother claim, marching against him while ignoring the Lannisters, 

Because Tarly, rather poorly because i do agree with Rowan there, convinced him to attack. Renly was going after the Lannisters, he was heading to King's Landing. It was Stannis the one who forced his hand. 

15 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:

Renly decides to hold her against her will to send her off with a threat...

Yeah, that was nasty.

 

 

16 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:

I do not like Stannis either, but both brothers went out of their way to attack each other, and that show a huge flaw on both of them.

Hmm no, Renly was going to King's Landing, Stannis was in Storm's End to see Renly dead...

 

17 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:

That is a huge flaw. When Caesar died and his faction started to fight among itself with bickering with Octavian and Mark Anthony, Brutus had the oportunity to strike and end both of them, but just like Renly he sitted on his hands and waited... we know how his story ends, and we also know how Renly story end.

... Yeah, Renly died by a shadowbaby, how was that going to change if he decided to march?? All it literally took was for Melisandre to be relatively near Renly and for her to fuck Stannis.

It's like mixing apples and shadowbabies here.

 

 

19 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:

Renly had all the momento, strenght and position to end everything and choose not to act.

He was acting. He did not act like you and Cat would want him to but he certainly was acting. While bleed imself when they are painless way of getting the throne?? Will Robb support him if he does defeat the Lannisters?? No, he would go back North and call him a usurper and making him bend the knee from there would've been a pain in the ass.

 

Quote

"A pity you let the Knight of Flowers slip through your pretty fingers. Still, Renly has other concerns besides us. Our father at Harrenhal, Robb Stark at Riverrun . . . were I he, I would do much as he is doing. Make my progress, flaunt my power for the realm to see, watch, wait. Let my rivals contend while I bide my own sweet time. If Stark defeats us, the south will fall into Renly's hands like a windfall from the gods, and he'll not have lost a man. And if it goes the other way, he can descend on us while we are weakened."

He was laying siege to King's Landing from afar without losing a single man and ofc he didn't get to win because magic was a factor, but he was never going to win... because magic was a factor.

 

27 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:

Do they even belive on the Lannister propaganda? They surely do not seem to belive on ghost stories.

Garlan is a Tyrell and marched with the rest of the Reach lords...

Yet there isn't one bad word about Renly, no lord renounced him and repudiated him a la Robb.

 

 

29 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:

The Tyrells cleary know is BS and roll with it to clear their own name in the process as Marg even cries during the song... is not genuine at all. Renly was their instrument to fufill their agenda.

Book Marg is not Show Marg, there is little reason to believe she wasn't afected by Renly's death.

 

30 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:

Can you show me the quote?

 

Quote

"I call it weak." Lord Randyll Tarly had a short, bristly grey beard and a reputation for blunt speech. "No disrespect to you, Lady Stark, but it would have been more seemly had Lord Robb come to pay homage to the king himself, rather than hiding behind his mother's skirts."

There is no reason to doubt Penrose's words anyway, none.