Jump to content

Why is Renly seemingly disliked in the community?


Recommended Posts

Here's the thing... Stannis is downright likeable at times.

He has a dry wit and ironic sense of humor that some readers relate to and enjoy.

Does he also have negative qualities? Absolutely yes.

Is he a hero of prophecy?

Probably not.

Would he even make the best King? 

Probably not.

Stannis is a POV character since book 2, and he will most likely at least make an appearance in book 6.

Renly is a secondary character for a book a half and had no POVs....

I'm not surprised many people prefer Stannis.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Back door hodor said:

Here's the thing... Stannis is downright likeable at times.

He has a dry wit and ironic sense of humor that some readers relate to and enjoy.

Does he also have negative qualities? Absolutely yes.

Is he a hero of prophecy?

Probably not.

Would he even make the best King? 

Probably not.

Stannis is a POV character since book 2, and he will most likely at least make an appearance in book 6.

Renly is a secondary character for a book a half and had no POVs....

I'm not surprised many people prefer Stannis.

I'm confused, was this topic about comparing Renly to Stannis. Don't believe I wrote anything of the sort. It's like you just made up what the topic was on. Stannis-stans remind me of Lebron-stans (any NBA fans out here?) in that they try to make every topic about their dude. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

I'm confused, was this topic about comparing Renly to Stannis. Don't believe I wrote anything of the sort. It's like you just made up what the topic was on. Stannis-stans remind me of Lebron-stans (any NBA fans out here?) in that they try to make every topic about their dude. 

The view that many fans have on Renly is decidedly shaped by their views on Stannis.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, frenin said:

He was still besieging Renly's own castle.

 

Without any positive result, or hope of one.

 

1 hour ago, frenin said:

He was still besieging Renly's own castle.

 

So we agree that Renly choose the wrong man to listen?

Stannis was small nuisance at most, Renly real enemies and threat were the Lannisters and he still choose to fight Stannis.

1 hour ago, frenin said:

... Yeah, Renly died by a shadowbaby, how was that going to change if he decided to march?? All it literally took was for Melisandre to be relatively near Renly and for her to fuck Stannis.

 

Yeah, Renly would be far away from the witch if he had choosen to fight the Lannisters instead of fighting Stannis, he rided to his death... he has 80k men... he could send a minor attachment to lift the siege and keep his march, but choose not to, and decied to lead the battle that he hoped would kill his own brother.

1 hour ago, frenin said:

He was acting. He did not act like you and Cat would want him to but he certainly was acting. While bleed imself when they are painless way of getting the throne?? Will Robb support him if he does defeat the Lannisters?? No, he would go back North and call him a usurper and making him bend the knee from there would've been a pain in the ass.

 

At a turtle or snail pace perhaps... There were no bloodless way to get on the throne, his claim was weak and based purely on strenght... he was ahead of the biggest army in the series, if he can't use the tool why bother to bring it? Stannis with only a portion of the same men would take the city in a single night, but Renly dragged the situation out.

And yes Robb will support him if he acted, Catelyn before leaving tells Robb that Renly would want homage and still was send, If Renly had took KL he would hold Sansa, Ice and if lucky even Joffrey, he would hold several instruments to negotiate with Robb, but once again he does nothing and counted with the egg on the chicken... he did the same with Stannis and Dorne.

Robb would not retreat north, he was claiming the Riverlands and was marching west... and even if he wanted Balon blocked him at MC.

1 hour ago, frenin said:

Garlan is a Tyrell and marched with the rest of the Reach lords...

Yet there isn't one bad word about Renly, no lord renounced him and repudiated him a la Robb.

So they know that the Lannisters propaganda is BS and that they are using Renly's name only to save face and still let it carry on.

Robb is only cursed by Freys and Stannis, unlike Renly we do have several quotes of characters going out of their way to defend him.

1 hour ago, frenin said:

Book Marg is not Show Marg, there is little reason to believe she wasn't afected by Renly's death.

 

And her relationship with Renly was just as void in the books as was in the tv show. her weaping is just a act like everything else she did during the PW.

1 hour ago, frenin said:

There is no reason to doubt Penrose's words anyway, none.

 

Tarly says nothing positive about Renly in this quote, he just enter in a piss contest with Catelyn and lose it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Minsc said:

No, Catelyn is angry because his actions negatively impact Robb.  Renly's decision to march slowly is absolutely sound both tactically and politically.  If Robb could have done the same with Renly being the one in need than she would absolutely advise Robb to do the same.  Renly's actions show neither flaw or an ugly picture of him.

 

Sure... because dragging a civil war for a longer period of time is always a good idea...Renly was a dumbass that was starving his own future capital and killing his own dam subjects in the process. He could end everythin in one move but died like a dog.

2 hours ago, Minsc said:

We never have any POV close to either of them to see signs of it, but we have no reason to doubt Penrose's words.  Most people don't continue to fight for dead people so them siding with another king after Renly's death means nothing.

Robb's bannerman were still fighting in his name until a AFFC, we still have the mountain clans fighting in the name of Ned, the Brotherhood without Banners fought in the name of Robert. Renly's bannerman did not even waited until his body was cold and those are said to be the closest to him...

Excluding Brienne and Loras is almost impossible to find anything positive about Renly, and even using them, their comments are usually wrong, mistaken, or purely based on a romantic view of him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/6/2020 at 5:13 AM, King17 said:

Renly was good looking and charming but that is it. He is an idiot who isn't worthy of being a king.

Well no, he was also politically astute and intelligent enough to realize that Cersei was trouble.

Being a King is not about being 'worthy' it is about having enough people willing to serve you, something Renly had.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:

Sure... because dragging a civil war for a longer period of time is always a good idea...Renly was a dumbass that was starving his own future capital and killing his own dam subjects in the process. He could end everythin in one move but died like a dog.

Renly's military strategy was absolutely sound.  Why should he interfere when his enemies are bleeding each other for him?  To interfere early would just means he would have fighter a stronger opponent later.  Renly also wasn't killing any of his subjects.

25 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:

Robb's bannerman were still fighting in his name until a AFFC, we still have the mountain clans fighting in the name of Ned, the Brotherhood without Banners fought in the name of Robert. Renly's bannerman did not even waited until his body was cold and those are said to be the closest to him...

No, they aren't.  They are fighting for the Stark family of which there is still family members left.  Manderly with Rickon and the Mountain Clans for Arya.  Renly didn't have any heirs.

25 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:

Excluding Brienne and Loras is almost impossible to find anything positive about Renly, and even using them, their comments are usually wrong, mistaken, or purely based on a romantic view of him.

Why would Tarly or Rowan just bring up what they like about Renly in any of their scenes?  Stannis is only shown to have support because we have Davos's and Cressen's POVs.  It isn't like NPOVs are telling how much they like him.

Quote

So we agree that Renly choose the wrong man to listen?

No, he followed the advice of his most respected general and the will of his men.

Quote

Yeah, Renly would be far away from the witch if he had choosen to fight the Lannisters instead of fighting Stannis, he rided to his death... he has 80k men... he could send a minor attachment to lift the siege and keep his march, but choose not to, and decied to lead the battle that he hoped would kill his own brother.

Without knowing Mel has magic, no one has reason to believe he was riding to his death.  Nor would anyone respect him if he sent someone else to parley with his brother.  

Quote

And yes Robb will support him if he acted, Catelyn before leaving tells Robb that Renly would want homage and still was send,

No, he wouldn't Catelyn even doubts she would be able to convince Robb to accept Renly's deal.  It would dumb of Renly to help Robb before Robb pledges his support to Renly.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

40 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:
 

Sure... because dragging a civil war for a longer period of time is always a good idea...Renly was a dumbass that was starving his own future capital and killing his own dam subjects in the process. He could end everythin in one move but died like a dog.

Ah yes, dogs most common form of death. Shadow sorcery. LOL. Some of y'all man. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Minsc said:

No, they aren't.  They are fighting for the Stark family of which there is still family members left.  Manderly with Rickon and the Mountain Clans for Arya.  Renly didn't have any heirs.

 

Blackfish has no idea if any Stark is alive and we was still carrying Robb's banner, and the same goes to the Blackwoods.

18 minutes ago, Minsc said:

Why would Tarly or Rowan just bring up what they like about Renly in any of their scenes?  Stannis is only shown to have support because we have Davos's and Cressen's POVs.  It isn't like NPOVs are telling how much they like him.

 

Don't know, the fact is that I can find even enemies of Stannis and Robb praising them, but the ones that "loved Renly the most" never even looked back. Renly is not portrait in good light in the books.

20 minutes ago, Minsc said:

No, he followed the advice of his most respected general and the will of his men.

 

The advice was wrong and stupid. Where would Stannis even get more men to grow stronger?... Had he choosen Rowan he could be alive, and probably would be the king.

22 minutes ago, Minsc said:

Without knowing Mel has magic, no one has reason to believe he was riding to his death.  Nor would anyone respect him if he sent someone else to parley with his brother.  

 

He was given two options of actions, march against Lannisters or Stannis, he choose by his own will to go after his own brother and died for it.

24 minutes ago, Minsc said:

No, he wouldn't Catelyn even doubts she would be able to convince Robb to accept Renly's deal.  It would dumb of Renly to help Robb before Robb pledges his support to Renly.

 

Is even dumber if he thinks that he can demand support without moving... he already made that mistake with Dorne and Stannis. Renly is not half as clever as he belives.

25 minutes ago, Minsc said:

No, he wouldn't Catelyn even doubts she would be able to convince Robb to accept Renly's deal.  It would dumb of Renly to help Robb before Robb pledges his support to Renly.

 

No it wasn't, he died and lost.

Renly counted on support he didn't have in Stannis that became his enemy and future murder, and Dorne that would pledge support to the Lannisters...Dragging the situation only gave time for Tyrion to get Dorne.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Arthur Peres said:

Blackfish has no idea if any Stark is alive and we was still carrying Robb's banner, and the same goes to the Blackwoods.

Blackfish is holding out for a death in a blaze of glory rather than submit to the Freys.  The Blackwoods just don't want to bend to the Brackens.  If it had been a Derry besieging them than they would likely bent the knee earlier.

2 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:

Don't know, the fact is that I can find even enemies of Stannis and Robb praising them, but the ones that "loved Renly the most" never even looked back. Renly is not portrait in good light in the books.

How many scenes do Tarly, Rowan, and Lady Oakheart have where they would have room to be praising Renly in a natural conversation?

3 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:

The advice was wrong and stupid. Where would Stannis even get more men to grow stronger?... Had he choosen Rowan he could be alive, and probably would be the king.

Nope, Tarly's advice was sound.  If Renly ignored Stannis it would appear he was afraid of him thus Renly might lose some of his own support.

4 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:

He was given two options of actions, march against Lannisters or Stannis, he choose by his own will to go after his own brother and died for it.

Only by a means no one would have any reason to expect.  Also he was still acting against the Lannisters when he marched on Stannis as KL is still under blockade. 

5 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:

Is even dumber if he thinks that he can demand support without moving... he already made that mistake with Dorne and Stannis. Renly is not half as clever as he belives.

Robb needs Renly more than Renly needs Robb.  So if Robb wants to hold out his support and stick to bleeding his forces against the Lannister alone that is no skin off Renly's back.  Robb is foolish to believe Renly show offer him the milk for free.

7 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:

No it wasn't, he died and lost.

Not for any reason related to your complaint.

Tyrion's deal with Dorne is likely only finalized after Renly's death.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:
Blackfish has no idea if any Stark is alive and we was still carrying Robb's banner, and the same goes to the Blackwoods.

Oh this is fun, I got this. The Frey's murdered their relatives. The Lannisters have killed ....I don't know, everyone. Stannis killed only Renly. There is a big difference. Yes, Robb acts as a lightning rod, but the truth is the Blackwoods, Blackfish, the Brotherhood with Banners, have a lot more to fight for then just for Robb. Their families died. Their people died. Their land was pillaged. 

5 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:
The advice was wrong and stupid. Where would Stannis even get more men to grow stronger?... Had he choosen Rowan he could be alive, and probably would be the king.
He was given two options of actions, march against Lannisters or Stannis, he choose by his own will to go after his own brother and died for it.

He could have gained men. Why not? No one realizes to what extent Stannis is a stubborn idiot at this point. They think he might try to get the Martells or Arryns (which he should have)..but Stannis is an idiot who just claims everyone should follow him because he deserves it. Lol. He died for it? Did he? Nah. Stannis did the shadow baby. If Renly had woken up and planned to leave or even surrender to Stannis. Stannis would have already murdered him. Renly is being advised to go early instead of waiting to the agreed upon time. Stannis does instead. Stannis was gonna murder him no matter what or do you think Stannis is a mind reader. 

 

9 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:
Is even dumber if he thinks that he can demand support without moving... he already made that mistake with Dorne and Stannis. Renly is not half as clever as he belives.
 

Renly counted on support he didn't have in Stannis that became his enemy and future murder, and Dorne that would pledge support to the Lannisters...Dragging the situation only gave time for Tyrion to get Dorne.

I don't think Renly thought Stannis would support him. Renly did expect Dorne to support him. I want to make sure you know, Dorne did NOT declare for the Lannisters while Renly was alive. If Renly looked like he was winning, Dorne would have declared for Renly. I want you to remember how much the Martells hate the Lannisters. Did you read AFfC or ADwD? I think Doran Martell wouldn't have sent troops to anyone. No Dornish were gonna be involved tell Daenerys came. (Was his plan) You really hate on Renly for not getting the support of the Dornish, but say absolutely nothing about Stannis not doing the same. Or the Arryns. At least Renly treats with Catelyn. Notice Catelyn doesn't even attempt to talk to Stannis. She thinks she has a better chance with Renly because Stannis thinks everyone should bow down to him even though he doesn't have an army, has a foreign god, and is a kinslayer. Yeah, remember that, Stannis is a kinslayer. 

 

11 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:

By your own definition, NO. Renly died like a man. Stannis is the coward. Stannis is the one who should be shamed. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

I'm confused, was this topic about comparing Renly to Stannis. Don't believe I wrote anything of the sort. It's like you just made up what the topic was on. Stannis-stans remind me of Lebron-stans (any NBA fans out here?) in that they try to make every topic about their dude. 

You mention Stannis a total of eight times in your OP by my count...staring in the second sentence.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Minsc said:

The view that many fans have on Renly is decidedly shaped by their views on Stannis.  

Oh it is, my point is this guy isn't even talking about Renly, except at the very end when he seems to realize this isn't a post where he needs to defend his love for Stannis, lol. Stannis-stans, like Lebron-stans, have this constant victim mentality. I never came at Stannis in my OP. 

After at first this post had mostly people who clearly dislike Renly (and are often biased because of their Stannis love), I'm glad it has become a good back and forth. Thank you all, even those I disagree with, for making this an entertaining topic. Also, y'all who think Renly made bad decisions militarily, he didn't. Who is the most respected general in Renly's army? - Guess what he recommended :P (I actually don't like Randall Tarly, but he is mentioned over and over as the best military general in Renly's army, and then Mace's army). Renly is shown to listen to his generals, and his choices of who will lead his army seem much much better than the decisions Stannis makes on the Blackwater. Since you have all made this about Stannis - Stannis lost his only big battle in the books (and yes I know he beat the....Wildlings....who had no chance...). Stannis's poor decisions in this battle especially to who he put in charge of his troops and...the fact that he was taken by surprise...suggest he isn't maybe quite the perfect general everyone acts like he is. Y'all are just so biased, lol. For example, Catelyn is my favorite character. However, I don't...hate some other character to artificially make Catelyn better. It's like you take on the grievances of your favorite character. That is strange to me. Shall I hate anyone Catelyn disliked? Well, I don't. I like Catelyn, but I don't worship her as my god (like y'all do for Stannis). 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Back door hodor said:

You mention Stannis a total of eight times in your OP by my count...staring in the second sentence.

Yes I did. As in reference to Renly, and why Renly should be more respected in the fandom...or at least not hated. The person I was responding to literally just listed why he liked Stannis....Was my topic : Stannis vs. Renly. Who do you like? No, it wasn't. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

I don't think Renly thought Stannis would support him. Renly did expect Dorne to support him. I want to make sure you know, Dorne did NOT declare for the Lannisters while Renly was alive. If Renly looked like he was winning, Dorne would have declared for Renly. I want you to remember how much the Martells hate the Lannisters. Did you read AFfC or ADwD? I think Doran Martell wouldn't have sent troops to anyone. No Dornish were gonna be involved tell Daenerys came. (Was his plan) You really hate on Renly for not getting the support of the Dornish, but say absolutely nothing about Stannis not doing the same. Or the Arryns. At least Renly treats with Catelyn. Notice Catelyn doesn't even attempt to talk to Stannis. She thinks she has a better chance with Renly because Stannis thinks everyone should bow down to him even though he doesn't have an army, has a foreign god, and is a kinslayer. Yeah, remember that, Stannis is a kinslayer. 

 

I thought that you wanted to avoid comparisons between Stannis and Renly... If you wanna my view on Stannis i'm happy to present you here:

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/156471-which-of-baratheon-brothers-you-respect-the-most/#comments

10 minutes ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

I don't think Renly thought Stannis would support him. Renly did expect Dorne to support him. I want to make sure you know, Dorne did NOT declare for the Lannisters while Renly was alive. If Renly looked like he was winning, Dorne would have declared for Renly. I want you to remember how much the Martells hate the Lannisters. Did you read AFfC or ADwD? I think Doran Martell wouldn't have sent troops to anyone. No Dornish were gonna be involved tell Daenerys came. (Was his plan) You really hate on Renly for not getting the support of the Dornish, but say absolutely nothing about Stannis not doing the same. Or the Arryns. At least Renly treats with Catelyn. Notice Catelyn doesn't even attempt to talk to Stannis. She thinks she has a better chance with Renly because Stannis thinks everyone should bow down to him even though he doesn't have an army, has a foreign god, and is a kinslayer. Yeah, remember that, Stannis is a kinslayer. 

 

The Brotherhood had nothing to gain from keep fighting in a dead man's name, but they did out of loyalite, Robb's bannermen in the Riverlands were only his bannerman because Robb brought their fight and made it his fight, Renly does not have this kind of loyalty or compromise with his bannerman, they all either went to Stannis or Joffrey without blinking an eye.

17 minutes ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

I don't think Renly thought Stannis would support him. Renly did expect Dorne to support him.

He cleary did

“I have twice that number here,” Renly said, “and this is only part of my strength. Mace Tyrell remains at Highgarden with another ten thousand, I have a strong garrison holding Storm’s End, and soon enough the Dornishmen will join me with all their power. And never forget my brother Stannis, who holds Dragonstone and commands the lords of the narrow sea.”

 

20 minutes ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

Dorne did NOT declare for the Lannisters while Renly was alive

The negotiation started when he was alive, and the Martell did declared support for the Lannister and did mobilized their armies, Renly just died before. The Martells never entered in a battle and even Tyrion doubt that they will, but this still shows that Renly was making big mistakes and was over confident, counting with forces he did not had and would at least on name, declare enemies of him.

“Your chain was a clever stroke, and crucial to our victory. Is that what you wanted to hear? I am told we have you to thank for our Dornish alliance as well. You may be pleased to learn that Myrcella has arrived safely at Sunspear. Ser Arys Oakheart writes that she has taken a great liking to Princess Arianne, and that Prince Trystane is enchanted with her. I mislike giving House Martell a hostage, but I suppose that could not be helped.”

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

46 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:

Renly does not have this kind of loyalty or compromise with his bannerman, they all either went to Stannis or Joffrey without blinking an eye.

Whom were they supposed to fight for after Renly's death?  Moreover, at least with the ones that went with Stannis they went back to him once they believed he was back from the dead.

47 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:

The negotiation started when he was alive, and the Martell did declared support for the Lannister and did mobilized their armies, Renly just died before.

Negotiations can occur with neither side agreeing to anything in the end.  Doran likely waited only to last minute until hearing of Renly's death before signing off on the alliance.  Moreover, the alliance actually cost Dorne nothing so why not agree to it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

Without any positive result, or hope of one.

Still laying siege to his castle, even Cat who apparently is your compass, doesn't see any wrong in that. In fact she would've been brought the whole army.

 

3 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

So we agree that Renly choose the wrong man to listen?

No, we agree that Renly had other options that we would've taken, others may agree with Tarly.

 

3 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

Stannis was small nuisance at most, Renly real enemies and threat were the Lannisters and he still choose to fight Stannis.

Renly was minding his business until Stannis dragged him. If you want someone to attack you, laying siege to their castles is very good way to do it.

 

 

3 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

Yeah, Renly would be far away from the witch if he had choosen to fight the Lannisters instead of fighting Stannis, he rided to his death... he has 80k men... he could send a minor attachment to lift the siege and keep his march, but choose not to, and decied to lead the battle that he hoped would kill his own brother.

Unless the witch can't move, Renly would die regardless, the witch can go wherever Renly is and camp outside and kill him. She doesn't need anything more.

He was the minor dettachment to lift the siege.

And Renly liked him or not is not a coward, so why wouldn't he fight his brother??

 

3 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

At a turtle or snail pace perhaps... There were no bloodless way to get on the throne, his claim was weak and based purely on strenght... he was ahead of the biggest army in the series, if he can't use the tool why bother to bring it? Stannis with only a portion of the same men would take the city in a single night, but Renly dragged the situation out.

There was no bloodless way to get the Throne, there were certainly bloodier ways than that.

Yes, Stannis with a portion of Renly's men would have tried to take the city, look how well it went. 

Renly had the means to pull a relatively bloodless coup for his part and without having to sack the city a la Tywin, because had the situation had continued the King's landers themselves would open the doors to his army.

 

 

3 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

And yes Robb will support him if he acted, Catelyn before leaving tells Robb that Renly would want homage and still was send, If Renly had took KL he would hold Sansa, Ice and if lucky even Joffrey, he would hold several instruments to negotiate with Robb, but once again he does nothing and counted with the egg on the chicken... he did the same with Stannis and Dorne.

He didn't count on Robb, he was counting on Robb bleeding himself against Tywin "¿When your son is going to march against Harrenhall?"  

He expected Robb to either do the dirty work for him or to leave Tywin delicate enough for him to eat him piece a meal.

Robb would not support him, that was made clear, Cat herself says so and we can trust her statement about her own son. Robb sent his mother for her to get Renly to act against a common enemy, nothing less nothing more.

 

 

3 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

Robb would not retreat north, he was claiming the Riverlands and was marching west... and even if he wanted Balon blocked him at MC.

You're assuming that Renly's suddenly going faster doesn't change people's plans or that characters have the knowledge of the reader. 

 

 

3 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

So they know that the Lannisters propaganda is BS and that they are using Renly's name only to save face and still let it carry on.

Robb is only cursed by Freys and Stannis, unlike Renly we do have several quotes of characters going out of their way to defend him.

Lannister propaganda is done so to publicly redeem Renly because the Reach lords would not have it other way.

And contrary to Robb you don't have a lot of people insulting him. 

 

 

3 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

And her relationship with Renly was just as void in the books as was in the tv show. her weaping is just a act like everything else she did during the PW.

Seems that you have info the rest of the readers don't.

Are you saying that because there was no love, there could not be any affection and friendship?? Seems like a black and white statement to me.

 

 

3 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

Tarly says nothing positive about Renly in this quote, he just enter in a piss contest with Catelyn and lose it.

No, he calls him the King and defends him right on. It would seem that you don't like what the text says a lot of times, you're bend it way too much.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

The negotiation started when he was alive, and the Martell did declared support for the Lannister and did mobilized their armies, Renly just died before. The Martells never entered in a battle and even Tyrion doubt that they will, but this still shows that Renly was making big mistakes and was over confident, counting with forces he did not had and would at least on name, declare enemies of him.

“Your chain was a clever stroke, and crucial to our victory. Is that what you wanted to hear? I am told we have you to thank for our Dornish alliance as well. You may be pleased to learn that Myrcella has arrived safely at Sunspear. Ser Arys Oakheart writes that she has taken a great liking to Princess Arianne, and that Prince Trystane is enchanted with her. I mislike giving House Martell a hostage, but I suppose that could not be helped.”

I'm reading AFfC now. That isn't anywhere near to happening. Tyrion has only sent the letter. Renly is already dead. I just checked. Myrcella is going to Dorne 7 chapters in the future. I think we can assume Dorne didn't make it's move until AFTER Renly was dead. 

2 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

 

“I have twice that number here,” Renly said, “and this is only part of my strength. Mace Tyrell remains at Highgarden with another ten thousand, I have a strong garrison holding Storm’s End, and soon enough the Dornishmen will join me with all their power. And never forget my brother Stannis, who holds Dragonstone and commands the lords of the narrow sea.”

 

 

Touche. I still think he probably didn't think Stannis was goign to support him, but being that I have no evidence, we have to go with yours. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...