Why is Renly seemingly disliked in the community?

[Lord of Raventree Hall]

17 minutes ago, Bloodraven’s Spider said:

Cuz Renly was a pretty boy who wanted to play king. Fuck Renly.

Theres only a few people in the story who would be the “good king” or “ideal king” Renly isn’t one of them. He knows how to throw tourneys and look pretty. But he has no clue about War or governance. 

You seem extremely hostile toward pretty boys. Care to posit any evidence behind your claims, or just vehemence of pretty boys? 

[Bloodraven’s Spider]

4 hours ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

You seem extremely hostile toward pretty boys. Care to posit any evidence behind your claims, or just vehemence of pretty boys? 

Not hostile toward pretty boys just Renly as it related to this questions. We learn from Cressen in the prologue his thoughts on Renly:

It was just the sort of notion that would appeal to Renly Baratheon; a splendid new order of knighthood, with gorgeous new raiment to proclaim it. Even as a boy, Renly had loved bright colors and rich fabrics, and he had loved his games as well. "Look at me!" he would shout as he ran laughing through the halls of Storm's End. "Look at me, I'm a dragon," or "Look at me, I'm a wizard," or "Look at me, look at me, I'm the rain god."

The bold little boy with wild black hair and laughing eyes was a man grown now, one-and-twenty, and still he played his games. Look at me, I'm a king, Cressen thought sadly. Oh, Renly, Renly, dear sweet child, do you know what you are doing? And would you care if you did? Is there anyone who cares for him but me? 

Prologue ACOK

Renly is appealing to other lords because he has a royal name & blood/has power of storms end and storm lords behind him/now the Tyrell alliance. He would obviously look attractive not on a physical basis but political with all the power behind him. If he knew what he was doing he wouldnt have moved at a snails pace... KL was ripe for the taking..

Jaime is a pretty boy and I think he would be a good king especially after he makes it back to KL with Brienne. Jon is a pretty boy and he would be a good king. Same thing with Aegon. Dany is a pretty girl do i think should would be a good queen, no but with the right council yes. Tons of pretty people in this story who would be good at governance or in charge of high end positions.

[GoldenGail3]

17 minutes ago, Bloodraven’s Spider said:

Not hostile toward pretty boys just Renly as it related to this questions. We learn from Cressen in the prologue his thoughts on Renly:

It was just the sort of notion that would appeal to Renly Baratheon; a splendid new order of knighthood, with gorgeous new raiment to proclaim it. Even as a boy, Renly had loved bright colors and rich fabrics, and he had loved his games as well. "Look at me!" he would shout as he ran laughing through the halls of Storm's End. "Look at me, I'm a dragon," or "Look at me, I'm a wizard," or "Look at me, look at me, I'm the rain god."

The bold little boy with wild black hair and laughing eyes was a man grown now, one-and-twenty, and still he played his games. Look at me, I'm a king, Cressen thought sadly. Oh, Renly, Renly, dear sweet child, do you know what you are doing? And would you care if you did? Is there anyone who cares for him but me? 

Prologue ACOK

Renly is appealing to other lords because he has a royal name & blood/has power of storms end and storm lords behind him/now the Tyrell alliance. He would obviously look attractive not on a physical basis but political with all the power behind him. If he knew what he was doing he wouldnt have moved at a snails pace... KL was ripe for the taking..

Jaime is a pretty boy and I think he would be a good king especially after he makes it back to KL with Brienne. Jon is a pretty boy and he would be a good king. Same thing with Aegon. Dany is a pretty girl do i think should would be a good queen, no but with the right council yes. Tons of pretty people in this story who would be good at governance or in charge of high end positions.

Jaime.. a good king?

[Bloodraven’s Spider]

5 minutes ago, GoldenGail3 said:

Jaime.. a good king?

Yes... Jaime would be a good king. Hes a completely different person after he loses his hand and his father died. He managed to take riverrun and raven tree hall with words and not blood. Hes trying to to the best thing for his house and the people 

[GoldenGail3]

19 minutes ago, Bloodraven’s Spider said:

Yes... Jaime would be a good king. Hes a completely different person after he loses his hand and his father died. He managed to take riverrun and raven tree hall with words and not blood. Hes trying to to the best thing for his house and the people 

I still don’t think he’d want to be King though. Jaime is admittedly, much better of a ruler then Cersei is.

[Bloodraven’s Spider]

22 minutes ago, GoldenGail3 said:

I still don’t think he’d want to be King though. Jaime is admittedly, much better of a ruler then Cersei is.

Thats a completely different discussion. He had 0 desire to be king. If he did maybe he wouldnt have yielded it to Ned so easily. Even now he probably has 0 desire. But if he was running the show the realm would be set for the correct path. Goldenhand the Just>>>

[Minsc]

1 hour ago, Bloodraven’s Spider said:

The bold little boy with wild black hair and laughing eyes was a man grown now, one-and-twenty, and still he played his games. Look at me, I'm a king, Cressen thought sadly.

Funny, I find it to be another Baratheon brother that generally runs around shouting "Look at me, I'm a king" while doing little to support their kingship in ACoK.

While are we also making adjudgements on adult Renly on Cressen's assessments of 6 year old Renly?

46 minutes ago, Bloodraven’s Spider said:

Yes... Jaime would be a good king. Hes a completely different person after he loses his hand and his father died. He managed to take riverrun and raven tree hall with words and not blood. Hes trying to to the best thing for his house and the people 

Renly's plan to take KL would have been with similar lack of blood.

[Bloodraven’s Spider]

2 minutes ago, Minsc said:

Funny, I find it to be another Baratheon brother that generally runs around shouting "Look at me, I'm a king" while doing little to support their kingship in ACoK.

While are we also making adjudgements on adult Renly on Cressen's assessments of 6 year old Renly?

Renly's plan to take KL would have been with similar lack of blood.

Your right Stannis has definitely been acting the king as well. But thats not the topic at hand. And if Renly wasn’t playing the king too he would be under his elder brother’s command. If Stannis was the youngest he would have easily supported Renly’s claim because it would have been his duty. 

You can’t say for certain he wouldnt have shed minimal blood. If he made it to KL most like he takes the City but hes gonna have to shed blood. Be it gold cloaks or Cersei, people will die. 

Jaime actually pulled it all. His parlay with Edmure/Tytos is some of the most remarkable shit the realm has ever seen. Tywin would have just steamrolled them (maybe not riverrun cuz technically the house is now in the Lannister name so why destroy it). Raventree Hall would have been put to the torch if it was Tywin its people with it. Jaime managed to secure both without a droplet of blood.

[broken one]

as for jaime - the problem is his 0 interest. he has shunned court and anything connected to ruling for years and so now he thinks littlefinger would be a great hand. I fully agree - after the "change" he shows very good attitude and has good ideas, but it is too late for him to play the game I think

[Minsc]

28 minutes ago, Bloodraven’s Spider said:

nd if Renly wasn’t playing the king too he would be under his elder brother’s command.

What do you mean Renly absolutely followed Robert.  Renly has no obligation to follow a middle child that has no authority over him so he didn't listen to Stannis.

29 minutes ago, Bloodraven’s Spider said:

His parlay with Edmure/Tytos is some of the most remarkable shit the realm has ever seen.

It really wasn't.  Jaime won playing a stacked hand given to him directly by Tywin.  All he offered was being less stupid than the Freys and not being a Bracken for the Blackwoods.

31 minutes ago, Bloodraven’s Spider said:

Jaime managed to secure both without a droplet of blood.

Only because his father and allies had already secured that deck with the Red Wedding.  No Red Wedding, then Jaime is outside trying to scratch his arse with a golden hand at Riverrun.

[Trigger Warning]

2 hours ago, Bloodraven’s Spider said:

Renly is appealing to other lords because he has a royal name & blood/has power of storms end and storm lords behind him/now the Tyrell alliance. He would obviously look attractive not on a physical basis but political with all the power behind him. If he knew what he was doing he wouldnt have moved at a snails pace... KL was ripe for the taking..

And would have been riper when he arrived as intended. The people would probably throw the gates open for him when he showed up with the bounty of Highgarden as the city was already rioting over the famine. Why rush to action and a bloody siege when you're growing stronger as your enemies grow weaker, the only reason he should rush is because Stannis has a magic shadow assassin he knows nothing about. If you can defeat your enemies without unsheathing your sword then you do it. 

[Trigger Warning]

Also can we address the mountains people make out of Renly's mole hills when critiquing him militarily. 

Renly wants to charge against Stannis' massively inferior force backed up against an enemy fortress while the sun rises = thread after thread of criticism. Renly wants to make a royal progress through the Reach, showing his power and keeping his men's morale high as King's Landing starves and the Lannisters and Starks fight each other, destroying the infrastructure of the West and Riverlands = threads and more threads of criticism of his military acumen. 

Stannis charges off to King's Landing with potentially two enemy armies in the field close enough to relieve the city, no supplies to feed the city and further more intends to assault it by staging an amphibious assault directly under the walls and even the citadel, is subsequently absolutely slapped about by the relief army = military genius. 
 

Hmmmmm 

It's almost as if there might be some bias floating about.

[Minsc]

22 minutes ago, Trigger Warning said:

Also can we address the mountains people make out of Renly's mole hills when critiquing him militarily. 

My favorite (military strategy related) is the the criticism that he is an idiot because he appoints Loras to lead his vanguard.  Meanwhile, crickets about the fact that Stannis appointed Guyard Morrigen to his at Blackwater.  Morrigen being no more experienced than Loras if we are to take Tarly's take on him, only Morrigen was even less skilled as a knight than Loras.  All while the vanguard opperation that Morrigen would being leading was vastly more complex than what Loras would have been against.  

[Trigger Warning]

3 minutes ago, Minsc said:

My favorite is the the criticism that he is an idiot because he appoints Loras to lead his vanguard.  Meanwhile, crickets about the fact that Stannis appointed Guyard Morrigen to his at Blackwater.  Morrigen being no more experienced than Loras if we are to take Tarly's take on him, only Morrigen was even less skilled as a knight than Loras.  All while the vanguard opperation that Morrigen would being leading was vastly more complex than what Loras would have been against.  

 

This is my favourite Battle of Storm's End discussion Uno reverse card. 

[Minsc]

1 minute ago, Trigger Warning said:

 

This is my favourite Battle of Storm's End discussion Uno reverse card. 

While not directly military strategy related my favorite hypocrisy I ever seen is some Stannis essay try to argue that Renly is more guilty of kinslaying than Stannis.

[Trigger Warning]

Just now, Minsc said:

While not directly military strategy related my favorite hypocrisy I ever seen is some Stannis essay try to argue that Renly is more guilty of kinslaying than Stannis.

The best for me was conveniently enough one about Storm's End, my personal favourite hill to die on. They used the Battle of Nagashino to justify a Stannis victory... you know where the defenders more than doubled the numbers of attackers and had a shit load of guns and palisades. 

I can see it now, Stannis spitting out his cigar and grinding his teeth as all his men start firing off into a wall of cavalry. 

[Minsc]

5 minutes ago, Trigger Warning said:

The best for me was conveniently enough one about Storm's End, my personal favourite hill to die on. They used the Battle of Nagashino to justify a Stannis victory... you know where the defenders more than doubled the numbers of attackers and had a shit load of guns and palisades. 

I can see it now, Stannis spitting out his cigar and grinding his teeth as all his men start firing off into a wall of cavalry. 

I think there is just a habit of naming famous battles and trying to pretend they were the same.  

[Trigger Warning]

14 minutes ago, Minsc said:

I think there is just a habit of naming famous battles and trying to pretend they were the same.  

I'll take a slice of Crecy and a side of Agincourt because archers and lopsided victory. 

[Minsc]

Just now, Trigger Warning said:

I'll take a slice of Crecy and a side of Agincourt because archers and lopsided victory. 

I don't know if it was here or reddit, but I once saw someone argue that Stannis is unique genius in realizing the value of archers because there is a single mention of archers training on Dragonstone while that is never mentioned for Renly and others so their archers must not train.

[Trigger Warning]

Just now, Minsc said:

I don't know if it was here or reddit, but I once saw someone argue that Stannis is unique genius in realizing the value of archers because there is a single mention of archers training on Dragonstone while that is never mentioned for Renly and others so their archers must not train.

That seems distinctly familiar so I'm gonna guess it's in one of those Storm's End threads we've skulked around in over the years.