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Falcon2909

The reason why TWOW is taking so long

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George R.R. Martin asks: “What was Aragorn’s tax policy?”  

Ruling is hard. This was maybe my answer to Tolkien, whom, as much as I admire him, I do quibble with. Lord of the Rings had a very medieval philosophy: that if the king was a good man, the land would prosper. We look at real history and it’s not that simple. Tolkien can say that Aragorn became king and reigned for a hundred years, and he was wise and good. But Tolkien doesn’t ask the question: What was Aragorn’s tax policy? Did he maintain a standing army? What did he do in times of flood and famine? And what about all these orcs? By the end of the war, Sauron is gone but all of the orcs aren’t gone – they’re in the mountains. Did Aragorn pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them? Even the little baby orcs, in their little orc cradles?

 

So because of this he's writing a very detailed chapter on Dany's new tax policy for Mereen. Reznak, Tyrion, and Victarion will help her formulate one.

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I caught myself listening to 3 chapters of ADWD yesterday morning, when I only intended to listen to a single Theon chapter.   There are times it becomes very easy to be swept up in the world GRRM has created.  I hope he is enjoying his creation as much as I and makes a couple side trips as often happens in my own head.   This is a great big story with much to enjoy.  All work and no play in Westeros would make GRRM a dull boy.   

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4 hours ago, Falcon2909 said:

George R.R. Martin asks: “What was Aragorn’s tax policy?”  

Ruling is hard. This was maybe my answer to Tolkien, whom, as much as I admire him, I do quibble with. Lord of the Rings had a very medieval philosophy: that if the king was a good man, the land would prosper. We look at real history and it’s not that simple. Tolkien can say that Aragorn became king and reigned for a hundred years, and he was wise and good. But Tolkien doesn’t ask the question: What was Aragorn’s tax policy? Did he maintain a standing army? What did he do in times of flood and famine? And what about all these orcs? By the end of the war, Sauron is gone but all of the orcs aren’t gone – they’re in the mountains. Did Aragorn pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them? Even the little baby orcs, in their little orc cradles?

 

So because of this he's writing a very detailed chapter on Dany's new tax policy for Mereen. Reznak, Tyrion, and Victarion will help her formulate one.

/s

Of course not, but clearly GRRM's world-building and story telling is an order of magnitude more complex than Tolkien's.  So, thanks for the quote. On the other hand, Tolkien invested much more effort in the creation of languages, which balance things out. 

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The tax policy will be important after the dust settles.  But that dust may not settle until the return of warm weather.  She will have to go to Westeros and settle matters with the Others.  The existential threat will have to be addressed.  After and only after will the question of how much to tax will be considered.

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3 hours ago, Pressly said:

The tax policy will be important after the dust settles.  But that dust may not settle until the return of warm weather.  She will have to go to Westeros and settle matters with the Others.  The existential threat will have to be addressed.  After and only after will the question of how much to tax will be considered.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. Winter needs lots of supplies to be bought in from across the Narrow Sea since places like the Riverlands are completely starving. War is not over yet and that would empty everyone's coffers a lot. What is left will not be enough to see through this winter (which will be longer than the summer which itself was 10years long) Now add the Others' invasion and you have the perfect recipe for disaster. So taxation is the need of the hour, not for warmer climate. 

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10 hours ago, Pressly said:

After and only after will the question of how much to tax will be considered.

Well, Dany might be wise to consider the very successful and lucrative tax policy of one of her Targaryen forebears: put a substantial tariff on imported foreign luxuries. This ensures that the wealthy will be the hardest hit - and maybe the only ones hit. This was, in fact, Alexander Hamilton's prescription for the newly-formed "United States of America." Taxes would be levied via tariffs on imported goods. He detailed this in the Federalist Papers.

(Note that tariffs are actually paid by the end consumers, not the "country" from which the goods are imported. Most Americans don't seem to know this.)

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4 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

Well I guess I fell for that click bait thread title.

As did we all!

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20 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. Winter needs lots of supplies to be bought in from across the Narrow Sea since places like the Riverlands are completely starving. War is not over yet and that would empty everyone's coffers a lot. What is left will not be enough to see through this winter (which will be longer than the summer which itself was 10years long) Now add the Others' invasion and you have the perfect recipe for disaster. So taxation is the need of the hour, not for warmer climate. 

If this show down with the Others is the magic out of whack there is a chance that if the Others are smote as opposed to simply driven back, perhaps this winter will be the shortest on record.  Maybe a normal 3 to 5 month disaster, but short enough to survive.  Could be normalized seasons could find all of Westeros well fed come the next autumn.  This isn't a thing these people have seen or known.  Could be a good thing for all of them. 

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On 7/7/2020 at 10:10 AM, zandru said:

Well, Dany might be wise to consider the very successful and lucrative tax policy of one of her Targaryen forebears: put a substantial tariff on imported foreign luxuries. This ensures that the wealthy will be the hardest hit - and maybe the only ones hit. This was, in fact, Alexander Hamilton's prescription for the newly-formed "United States of America." Taxes would be levied via tariffs on imported goods. He detailed this in the Federalist Papers.

(Note that tariffs are actually paid by the end consumers, not the "country" from which the goods are imported. Most Americans don't seem to know this.)

The trading partners will retaliate.

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It makes me wonder... when the 5 year gap was still going on, if he would have skipped over all of that tax policy stuff and gotten right to the action? But since he had to stick to the chronology now we got some plotlines involving tax policies and food stores (aka filler). Luckily he is able to do this while adding to the characterization, so it doesnt seem like filler. He said that a Dany chapter that he wrote a long time ago kept getting pushed back and back - I think that might have been the last one where she decided she was going to Westeros and abandoning Meereen. 

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On 7/7/2020 at 2:50 AM, TheLastWolf said:

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. Winter needs lots of supplies to be bought in from across the Narrow Sea since places like the Riverlands are completely starving. War is not over yet and that would empty everyone's coffers a lot. What is left will not be enough to see through this winter (which will be longer than the summer which itself was 10years long) Now add the Others' invasion and you have the perfect recipe for disaster. So taxation is the need of the hour, not for warmer climate. 

Then we disagree.  An existential threat will have to be addressed first before the issue of taxation.  A lot of important but not critical issues will have to wait.  Taxation is important but for it to be so, enough humans have to survive.  To survive, it may mean confiscating Littlefinger's grain and distributing to the fighting troops who will defend against the Others.  Wealthier families such as the Lannisters may be forced to give up a lot of their wealth in order to purchase food from Essos or some other areas with warmer weather.  In other words, desperation may mean forcing people to share their resources.  

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On 7/7/2020 at 2:50 AM, TheLastWolf said:

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. Winter needs lots of supplies to be bought in from across the Narrow Sea since places like the Riverlands are completely starving. War is not over yet and that would empty everyone's coffers a lot. What is left will not be enough to see through this winter (which will be longer than the summer which itself was 10years long) Now add the Others' invasion and you have the perfect recipe for disaster. So taxation is the need of the hour, not for warmer climate. 

Then we disagree.  The existential threat will have to be addressed first and enough humans will need to survive for it to matter.  

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There's a massive amount of content to explore. I have my doubts if two books will be enough to cover all the story.

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