Old Nan's Identity and her Unrevealed Secrets

[TheLastWolf]

PAST:

• Old Nan being Shiera Seastar is as downright ridiculous as the Freys claiming that Robb warged and attacked Old Walder Frey, the Lord Weasel. Shiera is Quaithe, It is known.
• Nan being Selenei of Lys is also preposterous. I personally suspect that Selenei was Larra Rogare (many similarities).
• There is also an old thread (if you can call 2015 old) about her being the 3EC, not BloodRaven. Very, very, very unlikely. 
• Rohanne Webber being Old Nan is also wrong as many believe (though its a much better theory than those above) because, 

1. Rohanne is the Ghost of High Heart, not a CoTF. All the hints point to it. CoTF is a possibility, but very slim.
2. So she cannot be Old Nan
3. Furthermore, only a woman/lady born and brought up in the North can know so much (read: all) legends and tales of the North and Beyond...
4. She (see below to find who I believe Old Nan is) must have been the woman kissing Dunk in Bran's visions as Rohanne webber was toooo short compared to Dunk (4"11 to 7''1-in feet) even when on tiptoe.

• So I think that Old Nan is....Alyssane Stark, Beron Stark's 5th born and 2nd daughter. This idea is not my own, as I was convinced by@Megorova
• She hooked up with Dunk and the rest is history (albeit an incomplete one)

PRESENT:

• Old Nan is still alive in the Dreadfort (hopefully with Beth Cassel ) because GRRM hinted it in a cryptic message saying that most of the women of Winterfell who are captives at the Dreadfort are alive, though not in a good place/condition.
• She would have most probably won the guards with her wide repertoire of stories. Not all the Bolton men would be as cruel as the Bastard and his 'boys'...or so I hope.

FUTURE:

• Nan has to be alive till the end to answer many of the mysteries which may/may not have the North involved somehow like:

1. Rodrik Stark, the Wandering Wolf's whereabouts and if he is now the Tattered Prince.https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/157215-the-tattered-prince’s-motives/
2. If Dunk's descendants through her are WENDA THE WHITE FAWN/MERIS CAFFEREN/PRETTY MERIS, HODOR(most are sure 'bout this and the next), BRIENNE, CLEGANE Bros. and PODRICK PAYNE(https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/157278-podrick-payne-a-greyjoytargaryenblackfyrestark/)
3. Dunk's parentage (if they are Daemon I Blackfyre and Daenerys I Targaryen). This would result in a large number of dragonseeds.
4. Jon's parentage/if R+L=J is true.(if she was confided in by Ned like I think). Anyway there is Howland Reed and maybe Richard Lonmouth/Lem LemonCloak also for that.

P.S. Now would be a good time as any to share your extensive consolidation of points that support-cum-correct (if any errors are there) this topic. (which also had me convinced and  inspired this in a sort of way), @Megorova.

 

[Loose Bolt]

One other candidate for Old Nan is Tanselle (not) too tall.

First she knew Dunk and he was her "hero" who saved her from nasty prince.

Secondly she had very strong reason to disappear and get new identity as far from any place her enemies would look for her.

Third she had experience as a storyteller.

[zandru]

Although I'm rooting for Old Nan, she was probably as old as Maester Aemon, and even with the best of care, would be unlikely to live much longer, and no, she would not get "the best of care" at the Dreadfort. So she's probably toast (maybe literally).

Beth Cassel is most certainly deceased by now, and we'll know for sure if one of the Bastard's "girls" is named "Beth." That's assuming young Ms Cassel put up a good fight, of course.

Lord Snow is also probably dead, and once Ser Allister learns that Jon was Rhaegar's legitimate son and heir, will his face ever be red! Recall that Allister Thorne was sent to the Wall for supporting Aegon II/Rhaegar.

[TheLastWolf]

21 hours ago, Loose Bolt said:

One other candidate for Old Nan is Tanselle (not) too tall.

First she knew Dunk and he was her "hero" who saved her from nasty prince.

Secondly she had very strong reason to disappear and get new identity as far from any place her enemies would look for her.

Third she had experience as a storyteller.

Tanselle was just half a head shorter than Dunk. Why stand on tiptoe to kiss him?

Tanselle was just a painter in a mummer group from dorne, that doesn't make her a storyteller who knows nearly all Northern fables. 

She had dark Dornish features, surely people of Winterfell would have noticed, at least when she was young. 

Why would she go to Winterfell??? A strange and cold place for a Dornish woman. 

Dunk took the vows of the Kingsguard between 233-236AC. Surely he could not have broken his vows after that . Where could he have met her before then? 

Dunk's descendants don't have Dark Dornish features. 

Rohanne Webber went to High Heart/old stones in 230 A. C not to Winterfell. Why go so far to meet Dunk?

[zandru]

1 minute ago, TheLastWolf said:

Dunk took the vows of the Kingsguard between 233-236AC. Surely he could not have broken his vows after that . Where could he have met her before then? 

Thanks for all your factual arguments! But membership in the King's Guard, like the Night's Watch, just means the man is not supposed to marry. He can whore around all he wants. And Dunk apparently did, from one end of Westeros to the other.

In addition, we all know that the Ghost of High Heart is actually Mance Rayder, who is obviously Rhaegar Targaryen, who has been skin-changed into by little Bran the Broken. Or something like that.

[TheLastWolf]

3 minutes ago, zandru said:

Thanks for all your factual arguments! But membership in the King's Guard, like the Night's Watch, just means the man is not supposed to marry. He can whore around all he wants. And Dunk apparently did, from one end of Westeros to the other.

He was honorable, just ask Barristan Selmy. And he whored around when he was not a sworn knight of the Kingsguard. 

4 minutes ago, zandru said:

In addition, we all know that the Ghost of High Heart is actually Mance Rayder, who is obviously Rhaegar Targaryen, who has been skin-changed into by little Bran the Broken. Or something like that

[TheLastWolf]

20 hours ago, Loose Bolt said:

One other candidate for Old Nan is Tanselle (not) too tall.

Just got an idea which may sound crazy. 

Could Dunk's descendants come from Tanselle, Alyssane stark and Rohanne Webber? 

Tanselle - Pretty Meris/Wenda the white fawn/Meris Cafferen and Brienne. (All are close to Dorne) 

Alyssane Stark(now Old Nan) - Hodor(North men, all of them) 

Rohanne Webber(now the Ghost of High Heart) - Cleganes and Pod Payne. (All of them including Rohanne are Westermen) 

[The Commentator]

I do not believe Old Nan is anyone other than who she is.  She could have been a Wildling at one time. 

[Lord Lannister]

Yeah, not everyone has to have a secret identity. 

[Megorova]

35 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

Yeah, not everyone has to have a secret identity. 

It's not about secret identity, it's about Old Nan's past. And we know absolutely nothing about her past. That Hodor, who, by the way, is actually - Walder (which is not his secret identity ), is her great-grandson, reveals absolutely nothing about Nan's own life. We don't know her actual name. And it's obvious that her parents didn't named their newborn daughter - Old Nan  And what kind of name is Nan? Seems likely that it's a shortening, same as Ned is a shortening of Eddard. We don't know who was her husband, whether she had more than one, how many children she had, what were their names, where her daughters went after departing from Wintefell, whether those daughters had children/grandchildren, and if they did, then whether any of them are currently characters in ASOIAF, whether all of Nan's children were kids of the same man, or if Nan gave birth to a bastard/bastards, etc., etc., etc. Her past could be significant, even without her having a secret identity. Though we know so little about her, that it could be revealed later, that in the past she played a major role, for example, was the mother of Dunk's children.

[Yaya]

you know, this is a good topic, we all quote Old Nan but we don't really know her

3 hours ago, Megorova said:

that her parents didn't named their newborn daughter - Old Nan 

HAR good one! - and true too.

Arya used the name 'Nan' as an alias; i forget where.  rightz?  or i am hallucinating?  i'll look it up after i post this.

Nan - short for:  Nancy, Nanette, Ann & all variants.  i would even say that Danaerys could be shortened up to Nan ... could be anything also.  I had a grandmother that I called Nana, maybe that is it?

we haven't any knowledge of any other family's "Old Nan" equal either ... we have never had a reminisce from any of the Lannister kids nor the Baratheon brothers about their "Old Nan" have we?  or has my memory failed from all the hallucinations? 
do you think Jojen & Meera had a "Old Nan"?

i love the stories of Old Nan - HEY -  are they collected?  i'll go look in the wiki after i post this.
 

On 7/7/2020 at 3:48 AM, TheLastWolf said:

• So I think that Old Nan is....Alyssane Stark, Beron Stark's 5th born and 2nd daughter. This idea is not my own, as I was convinced by@Megorova
• She hooked up with Dunk and the rest is history (albeit an incomplete one)

it could be that she is a Stark, that would make sense as to why she wasn't a big deal (by that i mean that she was a normal part of the family & life in general) & totally trusted to be with the children. 

@Megorova how old do you figure "Old Nan" would be if she is Alyssane Stark? 

& oh i so hope that Old Nan is still alive! 
(maybe she will be able to soothe the Lady Stoneheart)

 

 

[Skahaz mo Kandaq]

She may be a weak Greenseer.  Somebody who has the talent but is either weak or did not get the proper training.  She can connect to the Winterfell tree and read the recorded history in the weirnet. 

[Idunnohowtochangenames]

https://asearchoficeandfire.com/?q=Old+Nan&scope[]=agot

Old Nan is mentioned almost exclusively in Bran chapters, where she often seems to be present, active, and engaging Bran. You know, like she's real. I did a quick skim of the rest of the references and they are nearly always characters just remembering Old Nan telling stories in the past tense, like she's not currently around (deceased?) or is an abstract idea (instead of "old wives" tales, they say "old Nan" tales). Obviously, Old Nan is the hooded man seen by Theon. Just Kidding. Maybe. Although, she certainly could have written the pink letter. 

The one exception is that Cat remembers being undressed by Old Nan for a bath after cat's paw incident. Her reporting may be inaccurate because she's temporarily bonkers from the stress, but it's interesting that only Bran and the insane mother appear to interact with Old Nan.

She's clearly meant to contrast with Luwin's dull pragmatism and skepticism. Her stories allow Bran to be receptive to magical things despite Luwin's counter-programming.

 

I don't think she's Rohanne Webber. Rohanne marries a Lannister, pops out a few heirs, and then disappears forever. Presumed dead, but no corpse is recovered. Sure, disappearing means anything is possible. It's just hard to imagine a Lannister wife could successfully "hide" in the castle of one of the four wardens. People talk. And, Winterfell is not without some guests some of the time: traders, musicians, free riders, etc. 

 

[TheLastWolf]

11 hours ago, Skahaz mo Kandaq said:

She may be a weak Greenseer.  Somebody who has the talent but is either weak or did not get the proper training.  She can connect to the Winterfell tree and read the recorded history in the weirnet. 

RWL is the Ghost of High Heart so magicky things her forte..or not. Makes no matter.

Whatever we theorize, Old Nan's identity will be confirmed in either...;

• The She-wolves of Winterfell
• TWOW/ADOS

..only.

[Megorova]

17 hours ago, Yaya said:

@Megorova how old do you figure "Old Nan" would be if she is Alyssane Stark? 

In 300 AC she's between 101 and 106.

I think that Duncan the Tall is a secret child of Daemon I Blackfyre and Daenerys Targaryen, and that he was conceived in early 194, and born in late 194. Duncan's master, Ser Arlan, told him that in 194 he participated in Tournament at King's Landing, where he defeated the Bastard of Harrenhal (which is a clue, because it seems that that Bastard was a secret son of Jeyne Lothston and Aegon IV, and thus was Daemon Blackfyre's half-brother, and Duncan's uncle). Most likely, that Tournament was held in honor of King Daeron's birthday. Daeron was born on the last day of 153, and in 193 he turned 40 years old. Usually big tournaments last several days, thus it started in last days of 193 and lasted thru first days of 194. It's likely, that Daeron's sister and his half-brother attended that tournament, and that Daenerys arrived all the way from Dorne to celebrate her brother's Big 40. Probably it was first time after her wedding, that she and Daemon met again. They got reunited, rekindled old flames, and cheated Maron and Rohanne. In 198, when Ser Arlan found Dunk in KL, he thought that Dunk was 5 or 6 years old. Though I think that actually he was only 4, but he looked older, because he was taller and bigger than other kids of his age, thus he looked 1-2 years older than his actual age.

So in 212, when Duncan visited Winterfell, he was 17-18, and Nan/Alysanne at that time was either his age, or several years younger, though not younger than 14. Which places her birth in range 194-198, and her age in 300 in range 101-106.

Maester Aemon died aged 102. Bloodraven is 125 years old. Shiera Seastar/Quaithe is 116-122. If my theory, that the Ghost of High Heart is Rohanne Webber-Lannister, is correct, then she is 114-115 years old. Old Nan is not the oldest character in ASOIAF.

IRW the oldest person is aged 117, it's a woman from Japan. Currently there are 7 people aged 114+. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_verified_oldest_people

Obviously that Bloodraven, Shiera and Rohanne are still alive, even though they are aged 110+, is caused by magic, though, based on that list of real people aged 114+ (and there's a hundred of them), it is possible, that Old Nan has lived this long, even without any assistance from magic.

[Yaya]

this is interesting information to think on - thanks!

& i checked:  in the wiki there are links to information about each of the stories that our Old Nan tells - thank goodness!
https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Old_Nan#Tales
 

 

[TheLastWolf]

7 hours ago, Yaya said:

this is interesting information to think on - thanks!

& i checked:  in the wiki there are links to information about each of the stories that our Old Nan tells - thank goodness!
https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Old_Nan#Tales
 

 

Could Old Nan's tales about Ice dragons and sea dragons be true too?That Celtigar magic horn?

[TheLastWolf]

• I just got an idea that Old Nan is one of the few to know about Jon's parentage and more. Enough of debating about her identity. She'll be one of the 3 who we've discussed. We should be looking forward to future events. 

Jon's parentage is known/will be known by 

• Richard Lonmouth/Lem Lemoncloak
• Howland Reed
• Bloodraven and Bran (possibly) 
• Samwell Tarly (at the Citadel) 
• Old Nan.

As @Megorovasays, all of Dunk's descendants will be proved to be dragonseeds. No use of hinting at all those descendants if Dunk was just as mongrel off the streets and not the baseborn son of Daemon I Blackfyre and Daenerys I Targaryen. So Old Nan could attest to that, whoever she was before doesn't matter much. Other secrets to be revealed via her will be the hidden objects of Winterfell.... Ranging from Rheagar's harp to Bloodraven’s Butterwell dragon egg to Dark Sister and The Knight of the Laughing Tree shield. 

[Mithras]

On 7/9/2020 at 8:16 PM, Megorova said:

I think that Duncan the Tall is a secret child of Daemon I Blackfyre and Daenerys Targaryen

Dunk has to be a lowborn (in fact the lowestborn) from the gutters of Flea Bottom for his story to have meaning. Not every ASOIAF piece GRRM writes has to be about hidden Targaryen bastards.

[Mithras]

On 7/8/2020 at 8:37 PM, Widowmaker 811 said:

I do not believe Old Nan is anyone other than who she is.  She could have been a Wildling at one time. 

I agree. Wildling origin for Old Nan explains several things. First of all, Hodor might have giant ancestry like the Umbers. I was never comfortable with the girl who kissed Dunk being Old Nan and Hodor being one of Dunk's descendants. Second, it might explain why she said crows are liars. If she had some experience similar to what happened between Ygritte and Jon, she would definitely say that crows are liars. The timeline might place her arrival coincide with the campaign of Raymun Redbeard. If she came with him, fell in love with a crow who impregnated her and betrayed her, everything would fit. That would make her the pregnant woman in Bran's vision (at the same spot where Osha liked to swim naked). She was praying for revenge against that crow who cheated her. After Raymun was defeated, Old Nan was spared because she was pregnant and they needed a wetnurse for the recently orphaned baby Brandon Stark (son of Willam and Melantha). She was admitted to Stark household as a prisoner much like Osha and eventually became family. Finally, wildling origin also explains where Old Nan learned some of the creepiest stories that no one else knows.