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silverwolf22

jons ressurection will parallel the scene with the dragons hatching on drogos pyre

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I think shireen will be burnt on the pyre where jon is just like how mmd was burnt on drogos pyre  on ghost will be killed like drogos horse was killed ,

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The White Walkers can reanimate the body without the need for a fire ceremony.  Jon's body will be brought back by the White Walkers.  I do not think they will do this intentionally.  They will raise the dead and Jon's body will happen to be in close proximity.  

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It's a reasonable bet that Shireen will be burned, but whether it's to revive Lord Snow is doubtful, I think.

  • The queen doesn't like him
  • Other leaders within the Night's Watch (aka the assassins) don't like him
  • Melisandre keeps insisting to herself that Jon is NOT, NOT, NOT her precious "Azor Ahai"
  • Everybody at Castle Black have fuly justified fears of anybody "raising the dead"
  • Melisandre doesn't know what Thoros did.

If he's lucky, Jon's consciousness moved into Ghost, his direwolf. If his body recovers (we don't know how serious his wounds were), it could move back. If he dies, then he'll live on briefly as a direwolf, but his humanness will fade and he'll just be Ghost.

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Posted (edited)

While I agree that there are going to be parallels between the pyre that hatched Dany's dragons (as well as what happened at Summerhall because these events seem to be very much linked), I'm not sure that Shireen's sacrifice will have anything to do with Jon. There was something in Dany X when they were preparing Drogo's pyre, where they laid the twigs and the dry leaves from north to south, from ice to fire.

While that seems to have been mostly symbolic with Drogo with the ice situation, there is literal ice and fire at the Wall and two different types of magic. 

And if Mel wants king's blood, Gerrick Kingsblood and all his kin are at the Wall. He has a son who is a hostage and three daughters there, Selyse and her band morons have named him the king of the wildlings and labeled Mance a usurper. 

Very early in ADwD, there were rumors that Mel was intent on burning Mance first, then his son so that they would both die kings. The scenario doesn't change, only the people do.

Edited by Alexis-something-Rose

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2 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

And if Mel wants king's blood, Gerrick Kingsblood and all his kin are at the Wall. He has a son who is a hostage and three daughters there, Selyse and her band morons have named him the king of the wildlings and labeled Mance a usurper. 

The thing that doesn’t quite work for me in such a scenario is, if it is as simple as naming someone king, then you can basically use anyone. 

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1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

The thing that doesn’t quite work for me in such a scenario is, if it is as simple as naming someone king, then you can basically use anyone. 

I'm not even going to pretend I understand the rules of king's blood because it seems very arbitrary, we have no real explanation on it. Apparently the blood of priests is also a thing.

But I do think that Gerrick is going to meet a very unfortunate end because of that title they tacked on to him.

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9 minutes ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

I'm not even going to pretend I understand the rules of king's blood because it seems very arbitrary, we have no real explanation on it. Apparently the blood of priests is also a thing.

Definitely agree. I think there’s nothing to king’s blood... not really. IMO it’s something to do w/ some ritual performed at so,e point in the past, a king’s blood was involved, it worked, and there you go, it became a “recipe”. Either that or it does play a part but there’s more to the ritual(s) than that, and people aren’t really aware of it requiring other ingredients. If that makes sense?

9 minutes ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

But I do think that Gerrick is going to meet a very unfortunate end because of that title they tacked on to him.

A very real possibility.

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Nobody is going to want to sacrifice anyone to bring back Jon Snow. He is not important enough for that in the eyes of anyone in-universe.

However, if Mel were to burn people soon she would never ever target Shireen first. There are Gerrick with the apt name 'Kingsblood' and his three daughters who would burn first, followed by Gilly's child believed to be Mance's, there are Val and Axell Florent and Queen Selyse herself (the latter of whom are descended from the Gardener kings of old).

All those people would burn first before Mel would consider laying a hand on King Stannis' only child.

But she wouldn't burn either to bring back Jon Snow.

As for the king's blood thing:

That is not really a thing. There is special blood in the books, the blood of the dragon, but that just allows you to ride dragons.

Blood magic works regardless whether the person has 'king's blood' or not but it seems to work really well if you sacrifice people you love/have a connection with (hence Azor Ahai's success with Lightbringer when killing his beloved woman) - which is why two of Euron's special sacrifices for his grand spell right now is the mother of his unborn child and one of his own brothers. Using people who have magical abilities also seem to help a lot with sacrifices, which is why Euron collected those holy men - and which might also have helped Dany when hatching the eggs (Mirri was a sorceress, too, after all).

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A lot of king's blood died at Summerhall.  They just died.  Nothing came back.  We should closely examine the resurrections of Beric and Cat before we can say it is repeatable.  It could be unique to Thoros. 

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Posted (edited)

I would rather say it would be a foil to Dragon hatching on Drogo's pyre. Daenerys intentionally sacrificed a human life even if the reward from it (dragons) wasn't intended like that and she shows no remorse over it. Whereas with Jon he isn't the who will be doing the sacrifice, Melisandre will do it, and unlike Daenerys he would have issues with the fact that someone died for him. In fact he will be furious with everyone who was involved in his resurrection:

Quote

Only a monster would give a living child to the flames. (ADWD, Jon I) 

 

Edited by Elegant Woes

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On 7/8/2020 at 6:45 PM, Widowmaker 811 said:

The story would be better served if Jon died and stayed dead.  Otherwise, the assassination would lose its meaning.  The reader would start taking danger and death casually.

Well, the reader has just to read Tyrion's teasing approaches to death to know that.

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7 hours ago, Elegant Woes said:

I would rather say it would be a foil to Dragon hatching on Drogo's pyre. Daenerys intentionally sacrificed a human life even if the reward from it (dragons) wasn't intended like that and she shows no remorse over it. Whereas with Jon he isn't the who will be doing the sacrifice, Melisandre will do it, and unlike Daenerys he would have issues with the fact that someone died for him. In fact he will be furious with everyone who was involved in his resurrection:

 

Not that I think anyone will be sacrificed to bring back Jon or that Jon is okay with blood sacrifices, but he was fine with chopping off Janos Slynt's head. Let's not pretend he's gonna sob over every death.

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I don't think sacrifice will bother Jon unless it is one of his siblings.  He didn't have much trouble sacrificing Q Halfhand.  He is not the tender heart that many of his fans think of him.  I don't mind if Jon were to sacrifice any of the Starks.  I just don't want him to sacrifice any of the characters which I like. 

On 7/8/2020 at 12:45 PM, Widowmaker 811 said:

The story would be better served if Jon died and stayed dead.  Otherwise, the assassination would lose its meaning.  The reader would start taking danger and death casually.

Correct. 

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But why sacrifice Shireen to get Jon back? He is currently no one in the bread line, just another lord commander who unfortunately became a knife holder.

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On 7/15/2020 at 10:53 PM, TedBear said:

But why sacrifice Shireen to get Jon back? He is currently no one in the bread line, just another lord commander who unfortunately became a knife holder.

True about Jon.  Shireen is still in danger because the wildlings want to end her life.  The first case of greyscale at the wall and she will get the blame.  

Jon could die and live his second life in the direwolf.  Resurrection is not necessary to keep him in the plot.  Having a dw pov would be a test of Martin's skills as a writer.  

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13 minutes ago, Skahaz mo Kandaq said:

Jon could die and live his second life in the direwolf.  Resurrection is not necessary to keep him in the plot.  Having a dw pov would be a test of Martin's skills as a writer

That would be tragically funny. He'll be back in another way, let's wait and see how. I think it would be nice to have a chapter of it inside Ghost, but the next thing "BM and friends" will probably do now is try to kill Ghost. 

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