GRRRM rewriting after season 8?

[SeanF]

On 4/17/2021 at 12:04 AM, Bael's Bastard said:

Wow, I'm not a Stannis mark by any means, but I never thought he would be the one to make the choice to burn Shireen.

I imagine the situation would have to be absolutely desperate, eg the Others breaching the Wall and streaming South.

[Jaenara Belarys]

15 minutes ago, SeanF said:

I imagine the situation would have to be absolutely desperate, eg the Others breaching the Wall and streaming South.

Poor Shireen....

[BalerionTheCat]

4 hours ago, Dalinar said:

Don't know if trolling or really that hard trying to convince yourself? Not other people, but yourself. Because, buddy, we both know that not even the best lawyer could win that case. 

Trolling? I don't pretend to be sure of what will happen. And I don't try to be disagreeable with anyone. I've no difficulty convincing myself that, what the Targaryens build, and possibly even the Andals before, will be destroyed. And something more like the Children of the Forest and the Old Gods values will return to Westeros. This place is to share your ideas, not to force them on others. Or deny anyone, whatever he or she thinks.

[BalerionTheCat]

2 hours ago, SeanF said:

I imagine the situation would have to be absolutely desperate, eg the Others breaching the Wall and streaming South.

Do you think it will not happen?

[Dalinar]

2 hours ago, BalerionTheCat said:

Trolling? I don't pretend to be sure of what will happen. And I don't try to be disagreeable with anyone. I've no difficulty convincing myself that, what the Targaryens build, and possibly even the Andals before, will be destroyed. And something more like the Children of the Forest and the Old Gods values will return to Westeros. This place is to share your ideas, not to force them on others. Or deny anyone, whatever he or she thinks.

We can be sure about what will happen, if the author says it will happen. But building an arguement on the idea that the author purposely choosed to mislead with its wording, is a very thin straw and in my opinion not a basis for arguing. 

[BalerionTheCat]

27 minutes ago, Dalinar said:

We can be sure about what will happen, if the author says it will happen.

I'm not so sure what he said. I don't agree with everything, but you could read this about the Spiky Toilet.

[SeanF]

15 hours ago, BalerionTheCat said:

Do you think it will not happen?

No, but Stannis will have a far better justification than the show gave him.

[SeanF]

17 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Poor Shireen....

The most potent sacrifice of all is a willing one.  She may be.

[Kyll.Ing.]

This thread has existed for almost a year, and only now did I notice that there is an R too many in the thread title.

[BalerionTheCat]

11 hours ago, SeanF said:

No, but Stannis will have a far better justification than the show gave him.

Completely agree. No question the situation will be desperate. But something must convince him the sacrifice will not be meaningless. I don't think Melisandre or Selyse could do that.

11 hours ago, SeanF said:

The most potent sacrifice of all is a willing one.  She may be.

Agree too. The Red Priests are burning people as offering to R'hllor. But this is not sacrifice.

[divica]

11 hours ago, SeanF said:

No, but Stannis will have a far better justification than the show gave him.

 

8 minutes ago, BalerionTheCat said:

Completely agree. No question the situation will be desperate. But something must convince him the sacrifice will not be meaningless. I don't think Melisandre or Selyse could do that.

I have many doubts that people will agree with that.

Stannis can't be in a very desperate situation where either he sacrifices shireen or they all die because that isn't a true sacrifice. It basically is a situation in wich  either shireen dies with everybody or she dies earlier but might save his men.

Stannis must be in a bad situation but relatively safe. 

[BalerionTheCat]

12 minutes ago, divica said:

It basically is a situation in wich  either shireen dies with everybody or she dies earlier but might save his men

That Shireen dies anyway? The question was whether she dies with everybody, or her death save others?

I would still call that a sacrifice... so long as Stannis has any hope of avoiding it. For example, sacrificing himself or anyone else, or someone saving the day.

[divica]

1 minute ago, BalerionTheCat said:

That Shireen dies anyway? The question was whether she dies with everybody, or her death save others?

I would still call that a sacrifice... so long as Stannis has any hope of avoiding it. For example, sacrificing himself or anyone else, or someone saving the day.

But if there is hope of him escaping then the situation isn't desperate. That is what I am saying.

It can't be a scenario where stannis has no chance of surviving unless he sacrifices shireen and r'hllor saves him. THAT isn't a sacrifice. Shireen was dead either way, so by killing her first he can gain something. 

[BalerionTheCat]

1 hour ago, divica said:

It can't be a scenario where stannis has no chance of surviving unless he sacrifices shireen and r'hllor saves him. THAT isn't a sacrifice.

Maybe Stannis (and us) will be convinced there is no other alternative. Not a case where he could have done differently. OK, not a sacrifice as you define it. But he would still burn her alive. Not the lunatic, bigoted affair of the show. But a very hard decision anyway, bringing to him more sympathy than hate.

[SeanF]

I imagine that he either believes, or is persuaded to believe, that Shireen's sacrifice is necessary to save humanity.

[Castellan]

On 4/15/2021 at 11:32 PM, SeanF said:

I wish he'd do as his publisher has suggested, and release half the book.

I can picture that leading to excuses for spending even more time on the second half. I mean so the time to getting two halves publsijed is longer than if he'd concentrated on getting out a slightly less worked over single book.

Still, the older of us might have a chance of knowing what happens to some of our favourite characters before we die. I remember when I first discovered the books and the forum there was a post by someone who was 70 I think saying he'd worked out the rate of increase in intervals between the books meant that TWOW would come out seventeen years after ADWD. Or maybe he was jumping to ADOS. Anyway, time flies and I am starting to know how he felt.

[rotting sea cow]

On 4/28/2021 at 10:11 PM, BalerionTheCat said:

Completely agree. No question the situation will be desperate. But something must convince him the sacrifice will not be meaningless. I don't think Melisandre or Selyse could do that.

Davos will or so Stannis will think

Quote

"The bones help," said Melisandre. "The bones remember. The strongest glamors are built of such things. A dead man's boots, a hank of hair, a bag of fingerbones. With whispered words and prayer, a man's shadow can be drawn forth from such and draped about another like a cloak. The wearer's essence does not change, only his seeming."

- Melisandre, ADWD

[argonak]

8 hours ago, Castellan said:

I can picture that leading to excuses for spending even more time on the second half. I mean so the time to getting two halves publsijed is longer than if he'd concentrated on getting out a slightly less worked over single book.

Still, the older of us might have a chance of knowing what happens to some of our favourite characters before we die. I remember when I first discovered the books and the forum there was a post by someone who was 70 I think saying he'd worked out the rate of increase in intervals between the books meant that TWOW would come out seventeen years after ADWD. Or maybe he was jumping to ADOS. Anyway, time flies and I am starting to know how he felt.

That implies he finished even HALF the book.  I have my doubts he has much of anything ready for publishing.  Its probably just acres of half finished chapters and messy rewrites with starts and random stops.  If we're lucky he'll release an outline similar to his fictional history book to finish things off, but I have my doubts.  The dude has been through a lot lately, and if he had anything that ready he'd probably be a lot more optimistic.

I think the series will still be remembered for a fine character drama with a lot of good writing (and some not so good), even if he doesn't finish it.  A song of Ice and Fire's ultimate dose of realism will be it never being a finished complete story.     Most of the time we don't get to the opportunity to "finish" what we think our stories are.  Instead it ends unexpectedly with unfinished business.  

And maybe that's ok.  Because its not where you end up, but the journey that took you there that really mattered.

[BalerionTheCat]

In some weeks, a few months at most, he will leave his place on the mountain. To work for HBO. With little spare time I suppose. Given his demonstrated inability to progress on ASoIaF, if not fully committed, there is no way he could write much for ASoIaF in the next 5 years. Therefore, if he is not using his time right now to wrap up something for TWoW, satisfying conclusion or not, 1st half or all, there is no way we will see anything ... soon or ever.

[Werthead]

2 minutes ago, BalerionTheCat said:

In some weeks, a few months at most, he will leave his place on the mountain. To work for HBO. With little spare time I suppose. Given his demonstrated inability to progress on ASoIaF, if not fully committed, there is no way he could write much for ASoIaF in the next 5 years. Therefore, if he is not using his time right now to wrap up something for TWoW, satisfying conclusion or not, 1st half or all, there is no way we will see anything ... soon or ever.

He just said he'd be leaving the mountain cabin (he was being slightly dramatic, he has left it a few times to go back to Santa Fe to attend to other business as well, he's not literally been sitting on a mountain for eighteen months), not that he'd be leaving to work for HBO. The new HBO deal is just a renewal of the development deal he originally signed in 2013 (several of the new projects, like Who Fears Death and Roadmarks come from an earlier version of the same deal), where he fires off TV show ideas to HBO based on various properties (his own or other people's) and then they assign writers and other teams to develop those ideas further.

Quote

I wish he'd do as his publisher has suggested, and release half the book.

This is likely not possible due to his nonlinear writing process. He may have more than half the book done, but it's not necessarily the first half. It might be Chapters 5,7, 8-15 and 33-60, and the rest of the chapters and the prologue have not been completed yet.