GRRRM rewriting after season 8?

[BalerionTheCat]

59 minutes ago, Werthead said:

The new HBO deal is just a renewal of the development deal he originally signed in 2013

Thanks. Hoping it's not too much "distracting"

[Castellan]

5 hours ago, Werthead said:

 

This is likely not possible due to his nonlinear writing process. He may have more than half the book done, but it's not necessarily the first half. It might be Chapters 5,7, 8-15 and 33-60, and the rest of the chapters and the prologue have not been completed yet.

Well yes i didn't know about the non linear writing process (makes me feel better about my non linear reading process) but study of any major chapter show all sorts of foreshadowing, parallel events, tiny references to other chapters. So presumably he goes back and forth with re-drafting and minor tinkering because a recently 'completed' chapter can influence an old 'completed' chapter.

[Castellan]

4 hours ago, BalerionTheCat said:

Thanks. Hoping it's not too much "distracting"

I can't help assuming one would be drawn into it, unless the network itself keeps him out! He must care about how his babies are doing.

[BalerionTheCat]

7 hours ago, Castellan said:

I can't help assuming one would be drawn into it, unless the network itself keeps him out! He must care about how his babies are doing.

Even if it's no more involvement with HBO than before, it didn't go well for Winds before the virus and everything else stopped. If he still has as much to write and rework as he did during the confinement, I'm pessimistic.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

16 hours ago, Werthead said:

This is likely not possible due to his nonlinear writing process. He may have more than half the book done, but it's not necessarily the first half. It might be Chapters 5,7, 8-15 and 33-60, and the rest of the chapters and the prologue have not been completed yet.

But his publishers seem to think it's possible, no?

[Werthead]

3 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

But his publishers seem to think it's possible, no?

His UK and US publishers know it's not possible, but some of his international publishers are no au fait with his process and, because they have to publish the books in parts anyway, they're the ones who've been advocating for it.

[Casso, King of the Seals]

What do you guys think about the possibility that the book will be longer than ASOS/ADWD and still published in one volume for its initial release? I have seen someone mention elsewhere that there is a number of novels which significantly exceed these books in length and were published in hardback.

[Kyll.Ing.]

On 5/29/2021 at 4:21 PM, Casso, King of the Seals said:

What do you guys think about the possibility that the book will be (...) published (...)?

As long as the answer to this is yes, I honestly have no opinion of whether it should be one or two books. It will probably be too big to be held in one hand while reading even if split in half, and once that threshold is crossed it doesn't matter much how large it is.

I bet the book stores would love to see it split, though. They'd be able to charge full price for both halves and make a fortune. Come to think of it, that will probably be my main reservation against splitting it. Keep it to one, George!

[rotting sea cow]

On 5/29/2021 at 4:21 PM, Casso, King of the Seals said:

What do you guys think about the possibility that the book will be longer than ASOS/ADWD and still published in one volume for its initial release? I have seen someone mention elsewhere that there is a number of novels which significantly exceed these books in length and were published in hardback.

Half expecting and half hoping that it will be significantly longer than ADWD. At least ADWD+AFFC long.

It's the only way to we can advance the story far enough to make an ending possible. Once the story is focused on Westeros things might get easier from the plot perspective.

[SeanBeanedMeUp]

I mean if Winds of Winter is going to be a long ass book I won't be surprised as to why GRRM is taking a lot of time. I'm not sure if the show has actually changed his course. He won't be bothered by changing because of fan theories, he won't be bothered by changes made by Dumb and Dumber.

I also REALLY hope they don't split the books again. Big mistake doing it with AFFC and ADWD. I don't mind a huge ass book so long as it is able to tell a satisfying story.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

22 hours ago, SeanBeanedMeUp said:

I mean if Winds of Winter is going to be a long ass book I won't be surprised as to why GRRM is taking a lot of time.

ASOS is the longest book in the series and it came out just two years after ACOK.

[SeanBeanedMeUp]

On 6/18/2021 at 8:51 AM, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

ASOS is the longest book in the series and it came out just two years after ACOK.

And WOW will definitely be longer.

[The Winged Griffin]

2 hours ago, SeanBeanedMeUp said:

And WOW will definitely be longer.

I wouldn't be so certain about that. ASOS was the longest book, and even ADWD didn't surpass it in number of words (after they pushed back a few chapters to TWOW, that is). Although Winds has to basically finish what they couldn't put in ADWD and tell the story that GRRM wanted for Winds itself, I don't think it's impossible to pull it off in one book that would be around the size of ASOS. The plot in Storm progressed quite quickly, despite Bran, Arya and Jaime's travelogue chapters.

[SeanBeanedMeUp]

5 hours ago, The Winged Griffin said:

I wouldn't be so certain about that. ASOS was the longest book, and even ADWD didn't surpass it in number of words (after they pushed back a few chapters to TWOW, that is). Although Winds has to basically finish what they couldn't put in ADWD and tell the story that GRRM wanted for Winds itself, I don't think it's impossible to pull it off in one book that would be around the size of ASOS. The plot in Storm progressed quite quickly, despite Bran, Arya and Jaime's travelogue chapters.

I dunno, GRRM has a lot to cover in that book.

[The Winged Griffin]

5 hours ago, SeanBeanedMeUp said:

I dunno, GRRM has a lot to cover in that book.

I still think TWOW will be a giant-ass book, if it's not cut in two parts (released at the same time if the stars are aligned), but since GRRM has already done it in the past, we can't rule out the possibility that he might pull it off in one superpacked plot-driven book. 

[SeanBeanedMeUp]

19 minutes ago, The Winged Griffin said:

I still think TWOW will be a giant-ass book, if it's not cut in two parts (released at the same time if the stars are aligned), but since GRRM has already done it in the past, we can't rule out the possibility that he might pull it off in one superpacked plot-driven book. 

Also splitting a book in two parts has disappointed people in the past.

[Yaya]

for me the big question will be:   
will the book be in hardcover first or will it be available in paperback/electronic versions at the same time?

it would sure be a major bummer if the hardcover was the only type of edition available for sale in the first couple of months or so or whatever because usually it is isn't it?   
i can just see me toting a 5kg bundle of paper around.

 

(sorry if someone typed about this before, it's been so long since i read this whole thread)

[sifth]

On 6/20/2021 at 6:23 PM, Yaya said:

for me the big question will be:   
will the book be in hardcover first or will it be available in paperback/electronic versions at the same time?

it would sure be a major bummer if the hardcover was the only type of edition available for sale in the first couple of months or so or whatever because usually it is isn't it?   
i can just see me toting a 5kg bundle of paper around.

 

(sorry if someone typed about this before, it's been so long since i read this whole thread)

When ADWD came out 2011 it was available only in hardcover and electronic format, for about a year. The soft cover book came out about a year later, with a sample chapter at the end.

[StarksInTheNorth]

On 6/20/2021 at 6:23 PM, Yaya said:

for me the big question will be:   
will the book be in hardcover first or will it be available in paperback/electronic versions at the same time?

it would sure be a major bummer if the hardcover was the only type of edition available for sale in the first couple of months or so or whatever because usually it is isn't it?   
i can just see me toting a 5kg bundle of paper around.

 

(sorry if someone typed about this before, it's been so long since i read this whole thread)

I'm assuming you're non-American based on the "kg." In the US, books of all types typically come out in hardback for about a year and then release in paperback. I know the UK (and potentially other nations) have paperback releases come out sooner, but the US doesn't. I think this is partially because the NYT Bestsellers list has different metrics for paper vs hardback vs online in some categories, so if everyone is buying hardback it gets higher ratings.

The other thing is the US hasn't had the books split into volumes, except FeastDance which doesn't really count. My guess is that the US will probably still just have one mega-volume, but that other countries won't. Depending on the price, I'll probably end up buying the hardback to read and the virtual copy just to use the search function because of how much discussion and meta writing will need quick quotations.

[Maia]

On 1/24/2021 at 7:41 PM, Lord of Blackhaven said:

As mentioned earlier in the thread, maybe Martin saw some of his ideas play out on screen and didn't like how they actually looked?

Maybe King Bran sounded good in his head, but when fleshed out on the show he saw it was weak, nonsensical and a huge anticlimax (to many people).

IMHO, Martin's attempts to hold on to his initially envisioned endings for the main characters of AGoT when they no longer made sense combined with a weird inability to properly advance the timeline are the main reasons for the mess he found himself in after ASoS. This is a typical case of "kill your darlings" failure. By which I don't mean killing the characters, necessarily, but that certain ideas he had for younger characters could have only worked if he had managed to age them by a decade or more in the course of the series and should have been abandoned when he took a different route. I always liked Bran, but I was really surprised when I read that according to GRRM  before his fall we were supposed to think of Bran as  "a young King Arthur" and the main protagonist. And his whole development until now, not to mention his age (10 at most in ADwD) makes King Bran  even less believable.

Generally "kids save the kingdom/world flying by the seat of their pants!" which would need to happen for the surviving Starks to play important active roles in whatever outcome, seems badly at odds with the setting and the previous tone of the series. As does the notion of the Second Long Night being pretty trivial, like it would need to be if Dany and her baby dragons were supposed by GRRM to represent Fire to it's Ice. I know, I know - it is a well-worn fantasy cliché that the long-advertized return of Ancient Evil^(tm) and/or the end of the world^(tm) is averted within a year and without too much lasting damage once it fully reveals itself. But ASoIaF was far too nuanced and mindful of cause and effect for this simplistic framework to be satisfying after ACoK at the latest.   

 

On 1/24/2021 at 7:41 PM, Lord of Blackhaven said:

There's no doubt that his biggest problem is that he made the story too big. He was too ambitious. The complicated plot was by his own design. I love the story, but paring it down would have saved him a huge amount of trouble. Kudos to Martin for thinking big and creating an epic story, but maybe a story spread across two continents involving hundreds of characters with overlapping timelines and events was slightly too ambitious? It wouldn't surprise me if Martin himself has lamented not scaling back the story somewhat.

The plot wasn't unreasonably complicated, though. My feeling is that it is his getting bogged in the minutiae as well as his unwillingness to let the PoVs go once they have served their purpose. If you are a gardener, you must also be able to prune and to be flexible if  things develop in unexpected directions. While the ending of ASoS, great in itself, created some difficulties for a 5-10 year gap, GRRM still should have gone with it. Yes, it would have required certain contrivances, but no more than what was already present in the previous books. We didn't need to see a step-by-step of Tyrion becoming darker or Cersei frittering away her authority - we could have been presented with the results.  Ditto everybody else. Much as I like AFFC and ADwD, it is not true that the events of ASoS required an immediate follow-up - looking at history it happened frequently enough that situations remained in  precarious balance for years after some dramatic change, even under an incompetent leadership (and Cersei really didn't need to be quite as incompetent/crazy if her situation eroded over a decade instead of a few months). Martin could have postulated weather phenomena that made sailing very dangerous during a lengthy Autumn, for instance and voilá everybody would have had to stay more or less put. Ditto people being exhausted from war and needing to prepare for a ferocious Winter.