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Alyn Oakenfist

How many people are aware of Loras's inclinations?

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So Jaime seems to know for a fact about Loras and Renly, and we can guess so does Loras's family and Littlefinger given that it was him to come up with the KG idea which is uniquely suited for Loras. But who else do you think knows?

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1 hour ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

So Jaime seems to know for a fact about Loras and Renly, and we can guess so does Loras's family and Littlefinger given that it was him to come up with the KG idea which is uniquely suited for Loras. But who else do you think knows?

Stannis brings up Renly's orientation at their meeting outside Storm's End, he might know that Loras is Renly's partner.

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Brella was Renly's servant, she knew who visited him in KL and how often. And she is a gossiper, so she told other servants, and those told their masters, and so on. Entire KL knew. Except Sansa.

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2 hours ago, Megorova said:

Brella was Renly's servant, she knew who visited him in KL and how often. And she is a gossiper, so she told other servants, and those told their masters, and so on. Entire KL knew. Except Sansa.

But then other POV characters in KL never thought about it during the events of AGOT and ACOK

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2 hours ago, Megorova said:

Brella was Renly's servant, she knew who visited him in KL and how often. And she is a gossiper, so she told other servants, and those told their masters, and so on. Entire KL knew. Except Sansa.

Tyrion knows, too. Because he takes Brella as his new household keeper because she worked for Renly and so is very good at not seeing or hearing anything.

And yes, Sansa doesn't seem to know.

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6 hours ago, Morte said:

Because he takes Brella as his new household keeper because she worked for Renly and so is very good at not seeing or hearing anything.

Wouldn't her being good at not seeing or hearing anything go against her being a gossiper?

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Littlefinger, Oberyn, Cersei, Jaime, Gregor and his goons, Mace, Garlan, Olenna (probably), Margaery (probably), Renly (kek), Tyrion knows about Renly, idk if he knows about Loras, Varys (probably)

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4 minutes ago, Peach King said:

Gregor and his goons

I don't know if I would say they knew but rather they were just using it as a slur.

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2 minutes ago, Minsc said:

I don't know if I would say they knew but rather they were just using it as a slur.

Well, they call him the "knight of pansies" and say that he pulled a "bugger's trick" which are very choice words, but you're right, maybe they're just put off by the flowers....

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Just now, Peach King said:

Well, they call him the "knight of pansies" and say that he pulled a "bugger's trick" which are very choice words, but you're right, maybe they're just put off by the flowers....

I am just saying Gregor and his men seem like the type that would just refer to someone as gay as an insult.  

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1 minute ago, Minsc said:

I am just saying Gregor and his men seem like the type that would just refer to someone as gay as an insult.  

I wasn't being sarcastic, I was agreeing with you. 

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10 hours ago, Minsc said:

Wouldn't her being good at not seeing or hearing anything go against her being a gossiper?

I don't think Brella did much gossiping, either. It seems to me that Tyrion's knowledge about the two is completely separated from her, more like: "even though everybody knew she still never said anything".

Also not sure if a lot of gossip was needed for people of the court to guess, I think it was more about perception.

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21 hours ago, Morte said:

Tyrion knows, too. Because he takes Brella as his new household keeper because she worked for Renly and so is very good at not seeing or hearing anything.

That's what Varys made Tyrion to believe, to convince him to take Brella as his servant, because Brella seems to be one of Varys' agents. Based on what Brella was telling people after Joffrey's death, she not only saw and heard a lot of things, she also made some things up, and lied.

15 hours ago, Minsc said:

Wouldn't her being good at not seeing or hearing anything go against her being a gossiper?

No, it wouldn't. She's, most likely, a spy, thus she pretended to be "blind, deaf and mute", and later also pretended that she's a gossiper. This ->

"She tells Brienne about Sansa's constant praying, both in the sept and at night in the godswood, and suggests that Sansa most likely fled north, as that is where her gods are.[1] "

<- She deliberately misled Brienne.

"She also informs Brienne about how Sansa begged King Joffrey for the life of Ser Dontos Hollard, which makes Brienne believe that Ser Dontos helped Sansa flee and that finding him will lead her to Sansa."

<- That means that Brella KNEW that Dontos helped Sansa to escape, she knew that Sansa was meeting with Dontos in the godswood, because, when Sansa went to pray there, Brella always watched her/spied on Varys' order.

"Brella also shares that there was little warmth between Sansa and Tyrion Lannister, making Brienne believe that Sansa might have fled her husband just as much as King Joffrey's murder.[4] "

<- We do know that Tyrion was kind to Sansa, and that he didn't mistreated her. Thus, what Brella said was an intentional lie.

When it suited her, she was pretending to be deaf, mute and blind; when her mission required her to lie, she lied; she loudly snored, to make Sansa and Tyrion to think that she's sleeping; to her masters she pretended that she is loyal to them and will keep their secrets, and behind their backs revealed those secrets thru a gossip mill, when her mission required it.

She was Renly's servant for years, he stoped being cautious, when she was around, because he got used to her. Thus, who knows what she saw and heard in his house.

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32 minutes ago, Megorova said:

Brella also shares that there was little warmth between Sansa and Tyrion Lannister, making Brienne believe that Sansa might have fled her husband just as much as King Joffrey's murder.[4] "

<- We do know that Tyrion was kind to Sansa, and that he didn't mistreated her. Thus, what Brella said was an intentional lie.

He was kind to her, but she still saw him as an enemy (wrongly) who was trying to win her trust to use her. And the relationship was not warm

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Posted (edited)

I certainly didn't catch on until seeing he and Loras together, but I did get the idea that people in power didn't take Renly seriously.  His own brother decisively cut any gravity Renly might have had very early.   I'm not so sure that homosexuality is a bad thing to the crowd Renly runs with, or many really.  Dany, Cersei and Jon Connington are all portrayed in same sex types of relationships, if not precisely for sex.   Connington's love for Rhaegar will see the child he believes to be Rhaegar's on the Iron Throne.   We aren't told there was a physical relationship between the prince and Jon, but Jon is written with a great deal of loving memory for Rhaegar.   His are not fond thoughts, but loving memories.  Compare Barristan's memories.   They both like Rhaegar, but did not feel the same things for him.  Cersei seems to be less enjoying a woman than pretending to be a man, but she never once seems to feel odd or bad about the affair.  But Cersei really is a head case, sorry.  Dany jumps a bit at the lessons her handmaid initially attempts, but quickly understand this is her instruction.   Dany is a pretty sexually liberated character all things considered.  

A few folks above have made mention that Renly was just young and underestimated and I think that's more the problem he faced than any real blow back from his affair with Loras.  People knew.  No one made that big a deal out of it.   Maybe Renly didn't have to confront much in being the brother of the King.  If Robert or Stannis had just said something really ugly or malingering I could see this being a big deal.  If Ned made some comment about Renly, if just about anything, but the people closest to him and maybe not close at all, just don't put Renly's sexuality in his face as a put down.   Just my take, anyway.  

Edited by Curled Finger
Gads

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