BlackFish and the BwB, Bloodraven and dragon eggs.

[TheLastWolf]

32 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

If I was Blackfish a task such as interring a dead man's bones in the crypts of Winterfell, according to tradition, would be very low on the list of priorities.  Winterfell is occupied by enemies.  This would require a great deal of planning.  As I say, Blackfish has got several more pressing things to do before he would even be in a position to begin planning this.  

Read it again if you like. Especially the highlighted text

On 7/10/2020 at 2:40 PM, TheLastWolf said:

because the bones did not cross the Neck and never will for some time (till the series-TWOW/ADOS- ends or war does)….as they are probably under the care of Howland Reed

I said that Ned's bones are at GWW probably, with Howland Reed. And also that will not cross the Neck and never will for some time (till the series-TWOW/ADOS- ends or war does) Blackfish sending someone from the BwB to GWW will not just be for the bones, but the rest of troops, bogmen and survivors /stragglers alike. And also to plan something badass for the Freys. 

 

[Curled Finger]

3 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

Read it again if you like. Especially the highlighted text

I said that Ned's bones are at GWW probably, with Howland Reed. And also that will not cross the Neck and never will for some time (till the series-TWOW/ADOS- ends or war does) Blackfish sending someone from the BwB to GWW will not just be for the bones, but the rest of troops, bogmen and survivors /stragglers alike. And also to plan something badass for the Freys. 

 

OK.  Fair enough. 

[Targaryen Restoration]

We have no idea what state his mind is.  The Blackfish.  Maybe grief and hate has gotten the better of him and he joins Lady Stoneheart and her crew.  Nothing good will come from what they do. Blackfish does not have to pretend to dislike Jon Snow.  His niece doesn't like the boy and he is the fruit of Ned's insult to his niece and therefore the Tullys.  It is genuine if he holds negative feelings towards Jon Snow.

[TheLastWolf]

On 7/17/2020 at 3:23 AM, Targaryen Restoration said:

We have no idea what state his mind is.  The Blackfish.  Maybe grief and hate has gotten the better of him and he joins Lady Stoneheart and her crew.  Nothing good will come from what they do.

He is the effing Blackfish!!! Not Rickard Karstark. And we have more than an idea about his state of mind. He is calm, composed and plotting his revenge. He was not angry or depressed or wrathful with Jaime in their parley. His loyalty will always be to his grand nephew, king and liege lord Robb.... Or his successor now. He will not allow emotions to get into the way of his duty.

See his bio or wiki page or something. His track record proves who he is.... and what he will be. 

[TheLastWolf]

On 7/17/2020 at 3:23 AM, Targaryen Restoration said:

Blackfish does not have to pretend to dislike Jon Snow.  His niece doesn't like the boy and he is the fruit of Ned's insult to his niece and therefore the Tullys.  It is genuine if he holds negative feelings towards Jon Snow.

As i said already, Robb wasn't that foolish to make his will with Jon as heir without consulting his advisors, foremost among them the BF. And the BF could have either been on Robb's side in that issue or Robb could have convinced him. And "the fruit of Ned's insult to his niece and therefore the Tullys" is not that strong a opposing point. The Reach and Riverlands all have more highborn bastards than I care to mention and the Lords take them in to the household most of the time and don't show any particular hatred to them. And the BF could have faked his disdain to hide his motive. He had already made a plan in case the castle had to fall and it was just a remark to throw his would-be pursuers of his scent. He would surely honor the will of his king, whether he likes it or not. So that's all I've got to say about your opinion @Targaryen Restoration

[TheLastWolf]

On 7/11/2020 at 9:41 PM, Springwatch said:

Fake disdain - it's possible. The BF might support Jon for pragmatic reasons, a good choice for the North.

But seriously there's no reason to suppose the Tully men thought any different to Cat. That family is close-knit.

1. Likely she thinks like them because they educated her, including the history of the Blackfyre rebellions and just how far the ambitions of a bastard can reach, if truly favoured by their father.
2. Fathers and uncles tend to be protective of their young girls, and we know there's a lot of love in the Tullys. They married off their precious Cat assuming Ned was an honourable guy who would treat her well. They must have been hopping mad to hear Ned was a sleaze with a passion for another woman, and was raising his bastard equally with Cat's children.

So no reason for the BF to favour Jon

@Springwatch I stand by my statement. And @Targaryen Restoration also objected similarly. I have replied to that. See it. Well, now I saw yours which I overlooked before. 

 I also believe that the BF faked his disdain/hatred towards Jon (but not Theon) because he was close to Robb in his council and would have been instrumental in making him decide Jon as the North’s heir. Cat was b***h and a different matter, moreover, while Ned himself hid Jon’s parentage from her, why wouldn’t Robb do something similar 

 

@ghostofwinter made a similar point in another still reading thread from ADWD. 

Hello, about this particular Brynden topic, i was surprise when he confronts Jaime in Riverrun about something he says to him. Jaime is trying to negociate with him, something like leave the castle and take the black , go to castle black where Jon Snow is lord commandant. Brynden replies : ...my sister Cat she was right to not trust Theon as much like this bastard Jon. Anyway Brynden never met Jon, he does not know him. The way he reacts about Jon Snow in this chapter it was fucking strange, didnt sound like him.

 

Where Is Brynden? For me in his way to Castle black. Edmure Tully knows That Robb choose Jon as his heir and he frees Brynden. So what could be his last word to his uncle: Robb last wish. And it's possible that Brynden knew already King Robb heir.  

 

Ser Brynden Tully was Robb' eyes and ears, the commander of his scouts and outriders. (From Catelyn POV)

 

And then we follow Jaime who is trying to guess where is Brynden all along, he also thinks that probably he joined the brotherhood, or probably he might try to free Edmure or...what else. But from all possibilities Jaime did eliminate Castle black from Brynden words. 

 

I might be wrong, but I don't believe Brynden goes against Robb last wish, i think he played Jaime pretty well. About Robb letter, i think Robb did legitimate Jon but he didn't eliminate other possibilities. "We know no king but the King in the North whose name is Stark "might be the exactly Robb' words. Remember Cat was suggesting someone from another branch like Royce cousin or some shit like this. Or it will be Jon or sansa when she get divorce from Lannister, or Rickon if he is still alive, or Jeyne if she is pregnant but no one else except a Stark. 

[Springwatch]

8 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

I also believe that the BF faked his disdain/hatred towards Jon (but not Theon) because he was close to Robb in his council and would have been instrumental in making him decide Jon as the North’s heir.

BF would be a valued councillor, I agree. He has no reason want Jon as king though. He doesn't know him.

I always thought it was a bit weird that Riverrun wanted the King in the North to also be king over them in the riverlands - previously they were on a level as paramount lords. Probably a symbolic thing. But the only solid reason is that Robb, a half-Tully, a man they knew and liked, would found a dynasty based equally on both regions. That would all fall apart if the crown went to a stranger with only Stark roots, who had never been south.

[TheLastWolf]

On 7/20/2020 at 2:56 PM, TheLastWolf said:

As i said already, Robb wasn't that foolish to make his will with Jon as heir without consulting his advisors, foremost among them the BF. And the BF could have either been on Robb's side in that issue or Robb could have convinced him. And "the fruit of Ned's insult to his niece and therefore the Tullys" is not that strong a opposing point. The Reach and Riverlands all have more highborn bastards than I care to mention and the Lords take them in to the household most of the time and don't show any particular hatred to them. And the BF could have faked his disdain to hide his motive. He had already made a plan in case the castle had to fall and it was just a remark to throw his would-be pursuers of his scent. He would surely honor the will of his king, whether he likes it or not. So that's all I've got to say about your opinion @Targaryen Restoration

Saw this @Springwatch?

43 minutes ago, Springwatch said:

He has no reason want Jon as king though. He doesn't know him.

We don't know if he doesn't know him. That is more accurate. Besides as all that can be said has been said. It's your wish. 

And if you want to oppose Jon as a possibility in BFs actions, think twice as the Red Wedding was not expected by Camp Stark (it would not have occurred if it was expected) so Jon being named heir was not a problem as the immediate need wasn't so needy

And Tommen isn't known by the larger public and nobility if we bring up that issue of being known and gone places. If anyone claims the 7 kingdoms without travelling to all of em, then Dany has the weakest claim! 

[Springwatch]

 

6 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

On 7/20/2020 at 10:26 AM, TheLastWolf said:

As i said already, Robb wasn't that foolish to make his will with Jon as heir without consulting his advisors, foremost among them the BF. And the BF could have either been on Robb's side in that issue or Robb could have convinced him. And "the fruit of Ned's insult to his niece and therefore the Tullys" is not that strong a opposing point. The Reach and Riverlands all have more highborn bastards than I care to mention and the Lords take them in to the household most of the time and don't show any particular hatred to them. And the BF could have faked his disdain to hide his motive. He had already made a plan in case the castle had to fall and it was just a remark to throw his would-be pursuers of his scent. He would surely honor the will of his king, whether he likes it or not. So that's all I've got to say about your opinion @Targaryen Restoration

Saw this @Springwatch?

No, but thanks.

Robb would have consulted BF, but there's no reason to think BF wanted Jon to be king over the riverlands. Why the heck should he?

6 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

We don't know if he doesn't know him. That is more accurate. Besides as all that can be aid has been said. It's your wish. 

If Jon had friends at Riverrun, going to the Wall would not be the only option.

6 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

And Tommen isn't known by the larger public and nobility if we bring up that issue of being known and gone places. If anyone claims the 7 kingdoms without travelling to all of em, then Dany has the weakest claim! 

The Iron Throne has been established for centuries. Winterfell ruling over Riverrun is a very novel, strange, sketchy idea that never came to fruition.

[Seams]

Robb was born at Riverrun. We don't hear much coherent information from the lips of Hoster Tully but he does say that Robb has his (Hoster's) eyes. We saw that Catelyn, who had initially been raised as Hoster's heir, was able to call her father's bannermen at the inn at the crossroads. So I believe that Robb had a unique appeal to the nobles of the Riverlands, especially when he was at Riverrun in the company of his mother and uncle Edmure and great uncle Brynden.

As for the next king accepted in the Riverlands, there may be clues for us in the story of Torrhen Stark bending the knee to Aegon the Conqueror. Torrhen sends his bastard half-brother, Brandon Snow, across the Trident River to negotiate with Aegon. Once the terms are worked out, Torrhen crosses the river in the morning and kneels before Aegon the Conqueror, pledging his fealty.

I think it's significant that Torrhen makes sure that Aegon does not cross the river and set foot in The North. I suspect also that there is symbolic importance in Torrhen sending Brandon Snow across the river - crossing a river has symbolic importance in ASOIAF and cannot be done unless authorized or accompanied by someone with the power to cross rivers. (Recall that Robb Stark was angry with Edmure when Edmure stopped the Lannisters from crossing the river: Robb wanted them to cross so he could clobber their army and he needed Edmure to allow that to happen.)

Tullys have the power to cross rivers or, in the case of Catelyn, to negotiate with a Frey to allow passage across a river. Robb may have some of that Tully power because of his birthplace or his Tully heritage. (On the other hand, Tyrion's forces prevent Robb from crossing the river at an earlier stage of the war. Maybe Robb acquires his prowess at a later stage.)

Jon Snow spends a lot of time in rain and snow, but rivers? He passes behind a waterfall with Qhorin, and that is super significant. Presumably it is Qhorin's mojo that allows Jon to cross this water. Is there a stream in the tunnel where Jon Snow makes love with Ygritte? He sees the source of the Milkwater, but he is on a mountain looking down at it, as I recall. So I don't think Jon has the power to cross rivers in his own right. (He might have it after he comes back from death, however.)

Among other characters or Houses with river crossing power, House Manderly also seems to have the magic. When Good Queen Alysanne visits The North as part of her royal progress, she enters by way of White Harbor and House Manderly.

Anyway. Back to the Blackfish.

I believe we are supposed to see Brynden "Blackfish" Tully as sharing qualities with his namesake, Brynden "Bloodraven" Rivers. Bloodraven was loyal to House Targaryen and worked all kinds of behind-the-scenes maneuvers to keep them in power. I noted in an earlier comment that I think the Blackfish will be loyal to House Arryn, after years of devoted service as the gatekeeper to the Eyrie.

I imagine the Blackfish will work to liberate and restore House Tully, too. He was the one who shot the flaming arrow that finally completed the necessary funeral ritual for Hoster Tully's cremation. That symbolic role for the Blackfish, along with the reconciliation of Hoster and Brynden before Hoster's death, may signal that Brynden is carrying the Tully magic at the moment: perhaps a sort of "regent" role as head of the family. Edmure failed three times to light his father's funeral boat.

I don't see much subtext that connects the Blackfish and Jon Snow. The Blackfish guarded the Moon Gate and the Night's Watch guards the Wall. In the explanation of his "Blackfish" nickname we are told that it arises from the notion of the "black sheep" in the family. There are some sheep associations for Jon Snow (he wears sheepskin when he is with the wildlings). But there are lots of walls and gates and people who wear wool in ASOIAF. If the two characters were going to come together, I would hope for a stronger theme or motif or legend that would foreshadow an alliance.

At one point, I remember wondering whether the Blackfish had refused his brother's orders to marry and make an alliance because he already had a secret love. I wondered whether that love could be Lyanna based on the thin premise that it would be delightful irony if Catelyn hated Jon Snow but her uncle loved Jon Snow's mother. The age difference between Lyanna and Brynden makes this unlikely, unless it was just a one-sided crush by the Blackfish. But he doesn't seem the type to pine for unrequited love. (On the other hand, I do see him as similar to Ser Barristan.)

On the whole, I don't see Brynden Tully playing a big role in steering the Riverlands toward a successor to Robb Stark as king. I see him either protecting Sweetrobin, restoring Edmure as Lord of Riverrun and/or defeating Littlefinger. Or all of the above.

 

[TheLastWolf]

On 7/26/2020 at 2:33 AM, Seams said:

Robb was born at Riverrun. We don't hear much coherent information from the lips of Hoster Tully but he does say that Robb has his (Hoster's) eyes. We saw that Catelyn, who had initially been raised as Hoster's heir, was able to call her father's bannermen at the inn at the crossroads. So I believe that Robb had a unique appeal to the nobles of the Riverlands, especially when he was at Riverrun in the company of his mother and uncle Edmure and great uncle Brynden.

@SeanFsorry@SeanFsorry I meant Seams. Damn this phone. Can't remove tag.

Anyway, Robb is dead and we're talking about the next king. 

On 7/26/2020 at 2:33 AM, Seams said:

As for the next king accepted in the Riverlands, there may be clues for us in the story of Torrhen Stark bending the knee to Aegon the Conqueror. Torrhen sends his bastard half-brother, Brandon Snow, across the Trident River to negotiate with Aegon. Once the terms are worked out, Torrhen crosses the river in the morning and kneels before Aegon the Conqueror, pledging his fealty.

@Seams I never believed that Brandon snow went to negotiate. If Bran’s visions are what I think it is, then the youth with the weirwood arrows is Brandon snow who wants to fight the dragons.

On 7/26/2020 at 2:33 AM, Seams said:

believe we are supposed to see Brynden "Blackfish" Tully as sharing qualities with his namesake, Brynden "Bloodraven" Rivers. Bloodraven was loyal to House Targaryen and worked all kinds of behind-the-scenes maneuvers to keep them in power. I noted in an earlier comment that I think the Blackfish will be loyal to House Arryn, after years of devoted service as the gatekeeper to the Eyrie.

Not first to the Arryns but Lysa, his blood. Also he was exiled by Hoster, the Arryns were happy to get such a warrior, that's all. No great love or sense of honor and duty to them. It's now to the Starks after Robb died. His family (only Edmure and his wife and son) come next. 

On 7/26/2020 at 2:33 AM, Seams said:

At one point, I remember wondering whether the Blackfish had refused his brother's orders to marry and make an alliance because he already had a secret love. I wondered whether that love could be Lyanna based on the thin premise that it would be delightful irony if Catelyn hated Jon Snow but her uncle loved Jon Snow's mother. The age difference between Lyanna and Brynden makes this unlikely, unless it was just a one-sided crush by the Blackfish. But he doesn't seem the type to pine for unrequited love. (On the other hand, I do see him as similar to Ser Barristan.)

Great speculation. Really. But I'm afraid that's all that is. Speculation. 

On 7/26/2020 at 2:33 AM, Seams said:

On the whole, I don't see Hoster Tully playing a big role in steering the Riverlands toward a successor to Robb Stark as king. I see him either protecting Sweetrobin, restoring Edmure as Lord of Riverrun and/or defeating Littlefinger. Or all of the above

Hoster?!?? Oh it is the BF u mean. 

Protecting Sweetrobin??? Before his duty to his dead king and his cause and family, and then immediate family? No way. 

Edmure being restored as Lord of Riverrun won't last for long if they have no supporters to their cause, or better, if they don't support any cause. 

Defeating LF? It's not like BF knows LF's nefarious plans. To have him, Petyr is just a Lannister lickspittle who once wanted Cat. 

[Seams]

5 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

the Arryns were happy to get such a warrior, that's all. No great love or sense of honor and duty to them. It's now to the Starks after Robb died. His family (only Edmure and his wife and son) come next. 

Can you site evidence from the books to support this?

5 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

Edmure being restored as Lord of Riverrun won't last for long if they have no supporters to their cause, or better, if they don't support any cause. 

GRRM made a point of mentioning that Edmure protected the smallfolk, allowing them to take shelter in the courtyard at Riverrun. I suspect this is a hint about how the Tullys will be restored to their seat - he has earned the good will of the smallfolk.

5 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

Defeating LF? It's not like BF knows LF's nefarious plans. To have him, Petyr is just a Lannister lickspittle who once wanted Cat. 

Littlefinger grew up at Riverrun when the Blackfish was still based at that location. He would have had years to observe Littlefinger and to know some of the important incidents in his background - the duel with Brandon Stark, possibly the sexual exploration with Cat and Lysa. He may even know why Hoster took in Littlefinger as a ward - this is a mysterious decision by the Lord of Riverrun and may be a revelation GRRM is holding for later in the series.

If you go back to my earlier post, the basis for this prediction about Brynden's role vis-a-vis Littlefinger is that there are parallels between Brynden and Ser Barristan. Because Barristan exposes and encourages the exile of the traitor Jorah Mormont, I could see a similar role for Brynden at the Eyrie. It's not an absolute in my mind, but I did offer a basis for my thinking.

This is your thread and you can take whatever tone you want in replying to comments. If you reject comments out of hand, however, without offering thoughtful alternatives, the dialogue is not enhanced. Your threads will last longer and elicit more discussion if you give the appearance of open-mindedness and respect for others.

5 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

Hoster?!?? Oh it is the BF u mean. 

Fixed. Thanks.

[TheLastWolf]

41 minutes ago, Seams said:

This is your thread and you can take whatever tone you want in replying to comments. If you reject comments out of hand, however, without offering thoughtful alternatives, the dialogue is not enhanced. Your threads will last longer and elicit more discussion if you give the appearance of open-mindedness and respect for others.

Sorry, sorry, sorry. My mistake. I apologize if I have offended you in any way. I don't know what got over me. That tone, as you say was inappropriate. 

I understand that I was not open minded and respectful to you, or you took it in a way that I hadn't intended. Anyway, thanks for the advice. 

41 minutes ago, Seams said:

Can you site evidence from the books to support this?

Lack of evidence is not supportive evidence for you. I just assumed the most probable way it could have happened. 

The Blackfish was cast out from Riverrun for reasons unknown (your speculations about that are worth considering) but if he had any ties, it was and would be to his blood first. He served the Vale loyally as he took his fealty seriously, unlike many I could name. I have already stated my points on this. 

42 minutes ago, Seams said:

I suspect this is a hint about how the Tullys will be restored to their seat - he has earned the good will of the smallfolk

Small good it will do Edmure if the starving and dying smallfolk (or what is left of them after Tywin's dogs did) love him when multiple enemies come marching when word of him retaking (or attempting to) Riverrun reaches them.

Catelyn said it rightly about him. Great heart, not mind. Besides take Stannis. He left (sacrificed) his seat(s) in the south to prolong his survival and that of his cause. You don't expect Storms end to hold for long, do you? If he had sat his puckered are there stubbornly after his defeat, I doubt he would still be alive as the Lannisters wouldn't have ignored him like when he went to the Wall. 

42 minutes ago, Seams said:

Littlefinger grew up at Riverrun when the Blackfish was still based at that location. He would have had years to observe Littlefinger and to know some of the important incidents in his background - the duel with Brandon Stark, possibly the sexual exploration with Cat and Lysa. He may even know why Hoster took in Littlefinger as a ward - this is a mysterious decision by the Lord of Riverrun and may be a revelation GRRM is holding for later in the series

He knew him as a kid before he got kinda exiled. And @Megorovais having all kinds of theories in my other thread about little birds. See that if you want. But yeah, cannot reject yours outright. 

[Springwatch]

On 7/20/2020 at 9:42 AM, TheLastWolf said:

He is the effing Blackfish!!! Not Rickard Karstark. And we have more than an idea about his state of mind. He is calm, composed and plotting his revenge. He was not angry or depressed or wrathful with Jaime in their parley. His loyalty will always be to his grand nephew, king and liege lord Robb.... Or his successor now. He will not allow emotions to get into the way of his duty.

See his bio or wiki page or something. His track record proves who he is.... and what he will be. 

Tinfoil time, but I'm afraid you're going to be disappointed in the Blackfish. His disappearance feels to me totally in the category of Benjen, and Tyrek, and probably others: significant characters who just vanish, but we're not allowed to forget them. Don't try to logic me out of this one, it's just a bet I've got with the future.

Anyway, 'Family, Duty, Honor' - you don't get to choose one of three. BF couldn't abandon his family to serve the KitN.

[TheLastWolf]

1 hour ago, Springwatch said:

His disappearance feels to me totally in the category of Benjen, and Tyrek, and probably others: significant characters who just vanish

@SpringwatchI opine differently.

Benjen and Tyrek disappeared early on in the series. Not Blackfish. And we saw more of the BF than the other two. 

[R2D]

The Blackfish is the only good Tully.

[Springwatch]

19 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

@SpringwatchI opine differently.

Benjen and Tyrek disappeared early on in the series. Not Blackfish. And we saw more of the BF than the other two. 

Fair enough.

Personally, I can hardly separate Benjen and the BF as character types - there's so much overlap. They have the same sound and feel. And they both disappeared very decisively.

That's the group I'm betting on. Secondary character, one-dimensional, has a small but significant role in the story, and then walks out of the story in a very prominent way. Bronn's another one:  'Bronn grinned one last time, and walked out of the door, the castle, and his life.'  [Tyrion IX ASOS].

But I digress. Apologies.

[TheLastWolf]

On 7/10/2020 at 2:40 PM, TheLastWolf said:

++There may be new dragon eggs joining the plot. See theories about the Burned Men of the Vale descending from the Painted Dogs who worshipped Nettles and Sheepstealer. Maybe Sansa would find an egg or two.

More to support this.

Spoiler

Also there is no need for additional dragonseeds (known and secret) in the story, because there are already a lot of them:

Dany, Jon, Rhaego, fAegon, Varys, Barristan Selmy, Brienne, Hodor, Clegane Bros, Meris/Wenda, Brown Ben Plumm, Petyr Baelysh (thru the Bastard of Harrenhal/first Lord Whent); {Arya, Sansa, Bran, Rickon, Robert Arryn, Edmure Tully} thru Minisa Whent; Shella Whent (if she is still alive), Wynafrei Whent (married with a Frey); Bloodraven, Shiera Seastar, Martells (because current Martells are, most likely, descendants of Aliandra Martell and Drazenko Rogare from Lys); Stannis, Shireen, Gendry and other bastards of Robert Baratheon (because current Baratheons are descendants of princess Rhaelle Targaryen); the Black Pearl of Braavos and her siblings and parents, uncles, aunts, grandparents and multiple cousins (descendants of Aegon IV); and other people who are descended from Aegon IV's multiple bastards; [House Plumm, House Hightower, House Penrose, House Longwaters] <- all of them descended from marriages/unions with Targaryen princesses; House Velaryon, House Celtigar <- Valyrians that migrated to Westeros with Targaryens prior the Doom.

So if Sansa has Targaryen blood (through Cat, Minisa Whent, Lothstons, Aegon IV the Unworthy) then she could be a possible new dragonrider if/when she finds herself in possession of a clutch of frozen (cryo?) dragon eggs in the Vale. It's possible because the fates of Sheepstealer and Nettles are unknown and they were last seen in the Vale's mountain clans' company IIRC.

And she has a vengeful uncle on the loose.Plus bloodthirsty UnCat and the BwB. It's definitely getting interesting

[Nathan Stark]

On 7/27/2020 at 3:17 PM, R2D said:

The Blackfish is the only good Tully.

This is true.

[Belgarad]

I think the BF's location was foreshadowed in the Griffin Reborn chapter.  JonCon sent soldiers to check the secret family hidey hole that he only knew of because he grew up there and lo and behold the current Connington clan was hanging out there.  I dont think it is too much of a stretch to assume that other castles have similar places.  The reason for the delay surrendering could have been to give them time to stockpile provisions for an extended stay.  BF could wage a guerilla war from within the castle walls.