BlackFish and the BwB, Bloodraven and dragon eggs.

[TheLastWolf]

I know that there have been older threads about some of this, but I’d like fresher ideas and replies. We last saw Brynden Tully (the BF) escaping from Riverrun via the Red Fork of the Trident. Places where he could NOT have gone are;

The Vale: He knows that his niece Lysa is dead and now it is held by a Lannister henchman (as the rest of Westeros believes, no one other than Alayne/Sansa knows LF’s motives, that too only to some extent…Varys probably suspects, if LF was his ex-disciple-turned traitor). There is no way the BF could have known about Alaynesa…then. So him going to the Vale is ruled out.

Blackwoods/Brackens: The risk was too high as the former was under siege by the latter. Moreover, their rivalry would cause problems for the escaping BF, as one might feel that his pride was insulted if BF goes to the other. Moreover BF was not that stupid to go to a place/person where the Lannisters wil check first.

Seagard: Under siege and fallen to the Freys, BF knows it too.

I think that the BF joined the BwB (remember Tom ‘o’ Sevens with Jaime and Edmure?, he must’ve come to save-cum-recruit the BF…apart from setting up Ryman Frey)

Then BF would’ve met Lady Stoneheart-before or after the Brienne episode, mostly before- and would’ve certainly made plans immediately. Some of them-according to my guessing, speculating and calculations are:

·         To safely see off Ned’s bones. Lady Barbrey Dustin nee Ryswell would be sorely disappointed in her intended revenge, because the bones did not cross the Neck and never will for some time (till the series-TWOW/ADOS- ends or war does)….as they are probably under the care of Howland Reed at Greywater Watch. Harwin or better, Lem Lemoncloak(who is really Richard Lonmouth who knows about R+L=J and Howland reeds Harrenhal tourney identity)may be sent to treat with him. I also believe that the troops that were sent from Riverrun are at GWW, like the rest of the stragglers and survivors of Robb’s host.

·         I also believe that the BF faked his disdain/hatred towards Jon (but not Theon) because he was close to Robb in his council and would have been instrumental in making him decide Jon as the North’s heir. Cat was b***h and a different matter, moreover, while Ned himself hid Jon’s parentage from her, why wouldn’t Robb do something similar?

·         So Gendry/Harwin(if the BF himself goes to GWW)/Anguy/Lem/Thoros/Tom or anyone could be sent to the Wall to bring back their heir….though it would end in failure since….u know.

·         If word of the tourney in the Vale and Alayne Stone reached the Bro.hood, LadyS would know the truth about LF and connect it with Sansa’s disappearance from KL (with a helpful knock on the head from her uncle, the BF to make her rotten brain think)and maybe send somebody in disguise to investigate. Maybe he is one of the 3 new knights that LF takes into his service. Not Ser Shadrich (who has his own agenda for gold/for Varys), but maybe Ser Morgarth ( Lem Lemoncloak here??) who is not the Elder Brother of Quiet Isle as many believe, but that is a different thread. Or the other one whose name I forgot.

·         If the BF has joined the BwB, he’d know about the Hound and Arya and maybe send someone to find her, by eliminating the unlikely possibilities and choosing Braavos along with a few other locations (or go himself, though that’s unlikely, given that he won’t recognize her, maybe Harwin’d go) Maybe he’d send Harwin to get an Iron Bank loan and he’d find Arya by chance. This is less of a stretch than the previous one.

·         If, no, when Arya returns, the Freys would be in for a treat with Nymeria (warg Arya)and her monstrous pack aided with all of the GWW survivors…surely bad-ass Blackfish would not be idle without raising a host to avenge his grand-nephew…or could hire sellswords with Iron Bank of Braavos loan.

+ Thoros may be sent to treat with fAegon and/or Dany if he has any prophetic visions. Have to check Dany’s Quaithe visions about suitors to see if any hint hidden.

++There may be new dragon eggs joining the plot. See theories about the Burned Men of the Vale descending from the Painted Dogs who worshipped Nettles and Sheepstealer. Maybe Sansa would find an egg or two. See old theories (if 2015 is old) about her being kidnapped by Shadrich and getting the mountain clans’ help with the Imp’s name and finding the egg with Timett, son of Timett. Plus, at the Wall, Silverwing could have laid a clutch at the Nightfort. Maybe eggs do not turn to stone under cold conditions, but hibernate/cryo-freeze-sleep. Maybe BloodRaven’s Butterwell egg is at Winterfell in the crypts…..or….

+++…or it is at the bottom of the Red Fork. Remember Bloodraven telling Bran that his grand uncle was probably named after him, BRYNDEN. Bloodraven was from the riverlands and could’ve entrusted the egg to Hoster and Brynden’s father, Lord Tully to take it with him to the afterlife. After all, Brynden RIVERS knew that something like Summerhall would happen if it was left in the hands of foolish wannabe dragons. Why? Even the Blackfish could’ve been told the secret…or could’ve found the egg while escaping.

It was @alienarea's post in an old topic which inspired this

Quote

I would like him to show up with the BwB when UnCat is about to hang Jaime. He could continue his conversation with Jaime and have trial by combat

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/61911-the-blackfish/

[Springwatch]

Family Duty Honor. Top priority for the BF is Edmure, his wife and baby - so I don't think he could join with Stoneheart, because her focus is revenge, not rescue. And I don't think he could lead a splinter group of the BwB, because their focus is the land and the people. I honestly don't know what he could do.

If Edmure's totally safe (or totally unrescueable), the BF might think what he could do for SR, or Cat's daughters. But probably not Jon.

On 7/10/2020 at 10:10 AM, TheLastWolf said:

·         I also believe that the BF faked his disdain/hatred towards Jon (but not Theon) because he was close to Robb in his council and would have been instrumental in making him decide Jon as the North’s heir. Cat was b***h and a different matter, moreover, while Ned himself hid Jon’s parentage from her, why wouldn’t Robb do something similar?

Fake disdain - it's possible. The BF might support Jon for pragmatic reasons, a good choice for the North.

But seriously there's no reason to suppose the Tully men thought any different to Cat. That family is close-knit.

1. Likely she thinks like them because they educated her, including the history of the Blackfyre rebellions and just how far the ambitions of a bastard can reach, if truly favoured by their father.
2. Fathers and uncles tend to be protective of their young girls, and we know there's a lot of love in the Tullys. They married off their precious Cat assuming Ned was an honourable guy who would treat her well. They must have been hopping mad to hear Ned was a sleaze with a passion for another woman, and was raising his bastard equally with Cat's children.

So no reason for the BF to favour Jon.

What was the bit about Robb again?

[Curled Finger]

1 hour ago, Springwatch said:

Family Duty Honor. Top priority for the BF is Edmure, his wife and baby - so I don't think he could join with Stoneheart, because her focus is revenge, not rescue. And I don't think he could lead a splinter group of the BwB, because their focus is the land and the people. I honestly don't know what he could do.

If Edmure's totally safe (or totally unrescueable), the BF might think what he could do for SR, or Cat's daughters. But probably not Jon.

Fake disdain - it's possible. The BF might support Jon for pragmatic reasons, a good choice for the North.

But seriously there's no reason to suppose the Tully men thought any different to Cat. That family is close-knit.

1. Likely she thinks like them because they educated her, including the history of the Blackfyre rebellions and just how far the ambitions of a bastard can reach, if truly favoured by their father.
2. Fathers and uncles tend to be protective of their young girls, and we know there's a lot of love in the Tullys. They married off their precious Cat assuming Ned was an honourable guy who would treat her well. They must have been hopping mad to hear Ned was a sleaze with a passion for another woman, and was raising his bastard equally with Cat's children.

So no reason for the BF to favour Jon.

What was the bit about Robb again?

I am preparing a reply to the OP, but wanted to toss out the possibility that Robb gave some sort of instructions for Jon in this will everyone but us has seen.   At the time Robb was king of both the North and Riverlands.   I would expect this Riverlands defense/protection was a duty he might have extended to Jon.  BF has a big family and Jon is definitely not part of it, but there is honor in seeing to your king's wishes and embracing a ruler if not a long lost nephew.   He was flying the Stark banner over Riverrun.  House Blackwood was also flying Stark banners.  Robb really was a thing in the Riverlands.  BF is possibly a huge political player. 

[Curled Finger]

On 7/10/2020 at 2:10 AM, TheLastWolf said:

I know that there have been older threads about some of this, but I’d like fresher ideas and replies. We last saw Brynden Tully (the BF) escaping from Riverrun via the Red Fork of the Trident. Places where he could NOT have gone are;

The Vale: He knows that his niece Lysa is dead and now it is held by a Lannister henchman (as the rest of Westeros believes, no one other than Alayne/Sansa knows LF’s motives, that too only to some extent…Varys probably suspects, if LF was his ex-disciple-turned traitor). There is no way the BF could have known about Alaynesa…then. So him going to the Vale is ruled out.

Blackwoods/Brackens: The risk was too high as the former was under siege by the latter. Moreover, their rivalry would cause problems for the escaping BF, as one might feel that his pride was insulted if BF goes to the other. Moreover BF was not that stupid to go to a place/person where the Lannisters wil check first.

Seagard: Under siege and fallen to the Freys, BF knows it too.

I think that the BF joined the BwB (remember Tom ‘o’ Sevens with Jaime and Edmure?, he must’ve come to save-cum-recruit the BF…apart from setting up Ryman Frey)

Then BF would’ve met Lady Stoneheart-before or after the Brienne episode, mostly before- and would’ve certainly made plans immediately. Some of them-according to my guessing, speculating and calculations are:

Ah the hours of speculating on BF's destination we can have.   The Red Fork runs east/west at Riverrun.  He is not far from Pennytree, where Jamie was last seen, or the BwB's hideout in the triangle of the Forks.  Jamie last hears that Lady Stone Heart left Hasgmire to the north of Riverrun for the Neck, even further north.  Why BF would search out LSH is dumbfounding while trying to capture Jamie on his own is a very clever idea.   Perhaps he will run into Jamie and Brienne and perhaps he has nothing to do with LSH's faction of the BwB and simply plans to nab The Lannister who can free his Queen and Nephew.  I think west is BF's most likely destination with a possible detour south to locate Jamie.  

Now to say BF wouldn't go to the Vale negates his role as an insurgent.   One assumes BF was held in high regard there.  He is one of the very few residents of the Vale who got to join the war.  Although it is improbable BF is headed that way, we need to give him credit for his ability to perhaps persuade the Vale lords and unblooded army to join his cause.  I can see lots of ways this could stir up trouble and pull Little Finger's power right out from under him.   Little Finger is after all, Lord Paramount of the Trident.  Brought to light in the Vale, this could piss the Lords Declarant off a great deal.  Last I read Jamie was Warden of the East and wouldn't that be a nice thing to bring up?  Littlefinger's seat of power is in the Riverlands where he has dedicated zero attention just as Jamie has given the Vale no thought.   

I don't think we have enough information to throw out a blanket statement like BF has joined some faction of the BwB.  Remember, the BwB is a massive network extending as far as Essos if the original members remain true to the brotherhood.  Tom O Seven's temporary residence at Riverrun doesn't have to mean he and BF had any interaction.  It is more likely that Edmure was approached by Tom than BF.   We certainly have them meeting at the very least.  I rather think BF has kept his own council in his plans for the immediate future but that's just because I don't see any interest the BwB would have in him.  I can't see BF abandoning Cat to her fate if they'd already met up.  Someone will have to give Mother Merciless the gift of mercy and BF is as likely as any other candidate for this.  While I hope BF will align himself with the right thinking BwB, I don't think it's happened yet.  

On 7/10/2020 at 2:10 AM, TheLastWolf said:

         To safely see off Ned’s bones. Lady Barbrey Dustin nee Ryswell would be sorely disappointed in her intended revenge, because the bones did not cross the Neck and never will for some time (till the series-TWOW/ADOS- ends or war does)….as they are probably under the care of Howland Reed at Greywater Watch. Harwin or better, Lem Lemoncloak(who is really Richard Lonmouth who knows about R+L=J and Howland reeds Harrenhal tourney identity)may be sent to treat with him. I also believe that the troops that were sent from Riverrun are at GWW, like the rest of the stragglers and survivors of Robb’s host.

·         I also believe that the BF faked his disdain/hatred towards Jon (but not Theon) because he was close to Robb in his council and would have been instrumental in making him decide Jon as the North’s heir. Cat was b***h and a different matter, moreover, while Ned himself hid Jon’s parentage from her, why wouldn’t Robb do something similar?

·         So Gendry/Harwin(if the BF himself goes to GWW)/Anguy/Lem/Thoros/Tom or anyone could be sent to the Wall to bring back their heir….though it would end in failure since….u know.

·         If word of the tourney in the Vale and Alayne Stone reached the Bro.hood, LadyS would know the truth about LF and connect it with Sansa’s disappearance from KL (with a helpful knock on the head from her uncle, the BF to make her rotten brain think)and maybe send somebody in disguise to investigate. Maybe he is one of the 3 new knights that LF takes into his service. Not Ser Shadrich (who has his own agenda for gold/for Varys), but maybe Ser Morgarth ( Lem Lemoncloak here??) who is not the Elder Brother of Quiet Isle as many believe, but that is a different thread. Or the other one whose name I forgot.

·         If the BF has joined the BwB, he’d know about the Hound and Arya and maybe send someone to find her, by eliminating the unlikely possibilities and choosing Braavos along with a few other locations (or go himself, though that’s unlikely, given that he won’t recognize her, maybe Harwin’d go) Maybe he’d send Harwin to get an Iron Bank loan and he’d find Arya by chance. This is less of a stretch than the previous one.

·         If, no, when Arya returns, the Freys would be in for a treat with Nymeria (warg Arya)and her monstrous pack aided with all of the GWW survivors…surely bad-ass Blackfish would not be idle without raising a host to avenge his grand-nephew…or could hire sellswords with Iron Bank of Braavos loan.

+ Thoros may be sent to treat with fAegon and/or Dany if he has any prophetic visions. Have to check Dany’s Quaithe visions about suitors to see if any hint hidden.

++There may be new dragon eggs joining the plot. See theories about the Burned Men of the Vale descending from the Painted Dogs who worshipped Nettles and Sheepstealer. Maybe Sansa would find an egg or two. See old theories (if 2015 is old) about her being kidnapped by Shadrich and getting the mountain clans’ help with the Imp’s name and finding the egg with Timett, son of Timett. Plus, at the Wall, Silverwing could have laid a clutch at the Nightfort. Maybe eggs do not turn to stone under cold conditions, but hibernate/cryo-freeze-sleep. Maybe BloodRaven’s Butterwell egg is at Winterfell in the crypts…..or….

+++…or it is at the bottom of the Red Fork. Remember Bloodraven telling Bran that his grand uncle was probably named after him, BRYNDEN. Bloodraven was from the riverlands and could’ve entrusted the egg to Hoster and Brynden’s father, Lord Tully to take it with him to the afterlife. After all, Brynden RIVERS knew that something like Summerhall would happen if it was left in the hands of foolish wannabe dragons. Why? Even the Blackfish could’ve been told the secret…or could’ve found the egg while escaping.

It was @alienarea's post in an old topic which inspired this

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/61911-the-blackfish/

Why would Bf even care about Ned's bones?   He's got living family to worry about and plan to rescue.  If LSH has gone off to the Neck maybe she will encounter the bones, but the bones are of little significance at this juncture.  I do enjoy your reunion at Greywater Watch scenario, I'm just not sold that BF is a necessary part of this. 

Until we figure out where BF is really headed we can't say with certainty that he was faking his feelings about Jon.   I mean if you just read the things he says for what they are, there is no malice in them.   Just a simple, I don't care about this guy vibe.  A guy like BF would vet Jon before allowing him to just walk in as King of the Riverlands, you know? 

Two men did not choose to depart with the others. Ser Desmond Grell, Lord Hoster's old master-at-arms, preferred to take the black. So did Ser Robin Ryger, Riverrun's captain of guards. "This castle's been my home for forty years," said Grell. "You say I'm free to go, but where? I'm too old and too stout to make a hedge knight. But men are always welcome at the Wall."   AFFC Jamie VII

Passage above tells me BF has already sent his own loyal emissaries to see about this heir.  Don't need anyone else helping out in this.  These are both high ranking officers in BF's resistance.  

If LSH is already in the Neck it would take her a long time to get someone to the Vale.  We can't have it every way we want it.  Might have to leave Sansa and the Vale to someone outside of LSH's power.  Surely some in the Vale are aware that Alayne Stone is perhaps not Sansa, but certainly not who she appears to be.   Miranda Royce sure seems to bait Alayne with her lines of questioning.  Do the Vale Lords have the ability to leak their suspicions even if they do believe Alayne is Sansa Stark?  To what end if they did?   The Vale is one of 3 actual places of power to do anything in the current story.   Can't see why they would need outside forces to do their will.  

Now you touch upon an interesting thing I have toyed with.   Is BF connected to the Quiet Isle in any way?  Does he know who and what they are?   Does he trust them?  We can't know any of it, but BF connecting with Sandor Clegane is a very interesting prospect.

I don't see any evidence that Thoros wants to do anything other than babysit this monster he created.  I can't see him taking on any sort of diplomatic role or LSH engaged in that sort of power hunt.   She wants revenge, nothing more.  

As to Vale Clans and dragon eggs and witches in the woods, we just don't know enough about any of it.   We've got a legend and supposition and that's all.   Put a pin in that if more information becomes available.   For now, there is no way to verify your idea.  

 

[TheLastWolf]

9 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

  Last I read Jamie was Warden of the East and wouldn't that be a nice thing to bring up

Nope. Tywin restored it to the Arryn in ASOS. 

 

9 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Two men did not choose to depart with the others. Ser Desmond Grell, Lord Hoster's old master-at-arms, preferred to take the black. So did Ser Robin Ryger, Riverrun's captain of guards. "This castle's been my home for forty years," said Grell. "You say I'm free to go, but where? I'm too old and too stout to make a hedge knight. But men are always welcome at the Wall."   AFFC Jamie VII

Passage above tells me BF has already sent his own loyal emissaries to see about this heir.  Don't need anyone else helping out in this.  These are both high ranking officers in BF's resistance.  

Sorry, didn't think of that. 

9 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

LSH is already in the Neck it would take her a long time to get someone to the Vale.  We can't have it every way we want it.  Might have to leave Sansa and the Vale to someone outside of LSH's power.  Surely some in the Vale are aware that Alayne Stone is perhaps not Sansa, but certainly not who she appears to be.   Miranda Royce sure seems to bait Alayne with her lines of questioning.  Do the Vale Lords have the ability to leak their suspicions even if they do believe Alayne is Sansa Stark?  To what end if they did?   The Vale is one of 3 actual places of power to do anything in the current story.   Can't see why they would need outside forces to do their

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/127086-twow-spoilers-alayne-i-v-2/

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/124650-twow-spoilers-alayne-i/

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/127485-twow-spoilers-alayne-i-v-3/page/29/

[Curled Finger]

24 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

Nope. Tywin restored it to the Arryn in ASOS. 

 

Sorry, didn't think of that. 

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/127086-twow-spoilers-alayne-i-v-2/

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/124650-twow-spoilers-alayne-i/

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/127485-twow-spoilers-alayne-i-v-3/page/29/

I better go back and read it then.  I still wish someone would just ask LF why he doesn't just go home to the Riverlands.  Think of all the damage he could actually do there, with no resistance.   We hang out on a forum to discuss things we enjoy.  No one remembers absolutely everything and no one remembers everything the same way.   There is a lot of interpretive writing here.  Maybe a large part of why we talk about it.  I post topics to learn things.  Never be sorry if you get something you didn't think of.  That is part of the unraveling of mystery, right?     

[TheLastWolf]

1 hour ago, Curled Finger said:

No one remembers absolutely everything and no one remembers everything the same way.   There is a lot of interpretive writing here.  Maybe a large part of why we talk about it.  I post topics to learn things. 

 

On 7/10/2020 at 2:40 PM, TheLastWolf said:

See old theories (if 2015 is old) about her being kidnapped by Shadrich and getting the mountain clans’ help with the Imp’s name and finding the egg with Timett, son of Timett.

Could you please find that thread? I've searched all over in vain. It was in the Twow forum 2015. I'll post it if I find. It was really convincing with a hint about the Blackfish's motives too. 

[TheLastWolf]

31 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

 

Could you please find that thread? I've searched all over in vain. It was in the Twow forum 2015. I'll post it if I find. It was really convincing with a hint about the Blackfish's motives too

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php%3F/topic/108178-who-is-the-elder-brother/&ved=2ahUKEwiz2OfnpsfqAhXs8HMBHcAwCnYQFjAAegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw2mokCTwRt3aUJGAquQoFXU

https://sweeticeandfiresunray.com/2017/07/13/their-gallantry-is-yet-to-be-demonstrated-shadrich-morgarth-and-byron/amp/

[Seams]

I think the closest parallel to Blackfish escaping Riverrun is Ser Barristan escaping King's Landing.

Renly hoped that Ser Barristan would seek him out and become the "blue" member of the Rainbow Guard.

Instead, Selmy disguises himself as a squire and travels with Strong Belwas to quietly observe Dany and her retinue. He exposes the traitor Ser Jorah and reveals his own identity, putting his services at the disposal of (he believes) the true queen.

To predict Brynden Tully's reappearance, the elements I would seek are a "return" to a family he has served in the past, a period of being disguised and the exposure of a "traitor."

Based on these elements, I predict Blackfish will return to the Vale to try to protect and serve Sweetrobin. He may take the guise of a mystery knight and he may bring down Littlefinger in some way, shape or form.

His previous post was at the Gates of the Moon, if I recall correctly. This seat has now been granted by Littlefinger to the second House Royce. There is symbolism in Miranda Royce and Sansa / Alayne as competing wet nurses for Sweetrobin (not literal wet nurses but the symbolism is super strong). Blackfish is going to want to see Sansa as the winner in that competition, as she is of his family. (While disguised, I suspect he will recognize Sansa due to her strong resemblance to Catelyn.)

There is a fascinating dynamic between House Royce and (I suspect) members of House Tully. While visiting Renly's camp, Catelyn interacts quite a bit with Ser Robar Royce, who stands guard in various ways before sacrificing himself to allow Catelyn and Brienne to escape after Renly's death. I'm not sure whether Ser Brynden will have a similar interaction with someone from House Royce, but I strongly suspect there has to be some kind of coming confrontation or lord / vassal relationship between a Tully and a Royce that will come to a head.

[TheLastWolf]

1 hour ago, Seams said:

Based on these elements, I predict Blackfish will return to the Vale to try to protect and serve Sweetrobin. He may take the guise of a mystery knight and he may bring down Littlefinger in some way, shape or form.

https://sweeticeandfiresunray.com/2017/07/13/their-gallantry-is-yet-to-be-demonstrated-shadrich-morgarth-and-byron/amp/

Oh, you must mean that theory about Howland Reed, Elder brother/Lem lemon cloak/Richard Lonmouth and Sandor Clegane as Shadrich, Morgath and Byron.... Or something like that. Possible but dull. 

1 hour ago, Seams said:

His previous post was at the Gates of the Moon, if I recall correctly. This seat has now been granted by Littlefinger to the second House Royce. There is symbolism in Miranda Royce and Sansa / Alayne as competing wet nurses for Sweetrobin (not literal wet nurses but the symbolism is super strong). Blackfish is going to want to see Sansa as the winner in that competition, as she is of his family. (While disguised, I suspect he will recognize Sansa due to her strong resemblance to Catelyn.)

Difficult to recognize her when he has not seen her in years (remember something similar with Arya). And her being similar to Cat is a bit doubtful with the dyes, coming of age(physical changes). But not impossible, I'll agree. And I'm not so sure about that competition thing. 

[Seams]

14 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

Oh, you must mean that theory about Howland Reed, Elder brother/Lem lemon cloak/Richard Lonmouth and Sandor Clegane as Shadrich, Morgath and Byron.... Or something like that. Possible but dull. 

Um. No. Feel free to read my words and take them at face value.

15 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

her being similar to Cat is a bit doubtful

From the wiki: "Sansa is traditionally beautiful, taking after her mother's family (House Tully) with her high cheekbones,^[7] vivid blue eyes,^[8] and thick auburn hair.^[8]"

[Curled Finger]

9 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

 

Could you please find that thread? I've searched all over in vain. It was in the Twow forum 2015. I'll post it if I find. It was really convincing with a hint about the Blackfish's motives too. 

As I recall it's in the very 1st Alayne topic, posted the day the chapter was revealed.   There were some amazing catches and speculation in that one.   

[Curled Finger]

2 hours ago, Seams said:

I think the closest parallel to Blackfish escaping Riverrun is Ser Barristan escaping King's Landing.

Renly hoped that Ser Barristan would seek him out and become the "blue" member of the Rainbow Guard.

Instead, Selmy disguises himself as a squire and travels with Strong Belwas to quietly observe Dany and her retinue. He exposes the traitor Ser Jorah and reveals his own identity, putting his services at the disposal of (he believes) the true queen.

To predict Brynden Tully's reappearance, the elements I would seek are a "return" to a family he has served in the past, a period of being disguised and the exposure of a "traitor."

Based on these elements, I predict Blackfish will return to the Vale to try to protect and serve Sweetrobin. He may take the guise of a mystery knight and he may bring down Littlefinger in some way, shape or form.

His previous post was at the Gates of the Moon, if I recall correctly. This seat has now been granted by Littlefinger to the second House Royce. There is symbolism in Miranda Royce and Sansa / Alayne as competing wet nurses for Sweetrobin (not literal wet nurses but the symbolism is super strong). Blackfish is going to want to see Sansa as the winner in that competition, as she is of his family. (While disguised, I suspect he will recognize Sansa due to her strong resemblance to Catelyn.)

There is a fascinating dynamic between House Royce and (I suspect) members of House Tully. While visiting Renly's camp, Catelyn interacts quite a bit with Ser Robar Royce, who stands guard in various ways before sacrificing himself to allow Catelyn and Brienne to escape after Renly's death. I'm not sure whether Ser Brynden will have a similar interaction with someone from House Royce, but I strongly suspect there has to be some kind of coming confrontation or lord / vassal relationship between a Tully and a Royce that will come to a head.

Great epic wonderful parallel.  Though I do read BF's current circumstances pointing to his attempting to rescue Edmure and Jeyne, there is plenty of room for a return to the Vale if he survives.  Then again, I also think BF would be an excellent addition to the BwB.   He's a great character who could do a lot of good wherever GRRM takes his tale.  

[TheLastWolf]

On 7/12/2020 at 1:25 AM, Curled Finger said:

The Red Fork runs east/west at Riverrun.  He is not far from Pennytree, where Jamie was last seen,

Arlan of Pennytree is the only other character from that place we have seen so far.Could some Dunk and Egg story(past/upcoming)have left an Easter Egg there? sorry for the bad pun.

13 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Then again, I also think BF would be an excellent addition to the BwB.

Exactly what I mean.

13 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

As I recall it's in the very 1st Alayne topic, posted the day the chapter was revealed.   There were some amazing catches and speculation in that one. 

I couldn't find it,yet

 

15 hours ago, Seams said:

There is a fascinating dynamic between House Royce and (I suspect) members of House Tully. While visiting Renly's camp, Catelyn interacts quite a bit with Ser Robar Royce, who stands guard in various ways before sacrificing himself to allow Catelyn and Brienne to escape after Renly's death. I'm not sure whether Ser Brynden will have a similar interaction with someone from House Royce, but I strongly suspect there has to be some kind of coming confrontation or lord / vassal relationship between a Tully and a Royce that will come to a head

Sorry for overloking it, but it does have potential.

[Curled Finger]

8 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

Arlan of Pennytree is the only other character from that place we have seen so far.Could some Dunk and Egg story(past/upcoming)have left an Easter Egg there? sorry for the bad pun.

 

We can't really avoid the puns sometimes.  Yes, I think everything in this is connected.  Can't prove it, but know it in my bones.  Pennytree is something.  Just no idea what. 

[Nevets]

Where in the world is Brynden Tully? 

My guess would be the Westlands or the Riverlands,  but that encompasses a great deal of territory and possible activities.  

In his parley with Jaime he expressed concern for Jeyne Westerling's welfare.   I doubt that concern is over so a rescue of her is a possibility.  Plus she could wave the bloody shirt of her dead husband to rally the Riverlands against the Lannisters.  I doubt BF would try to rescue her from the column.  It's too big and well guarded.  But once she reaches the Crag it is a possibility.   I think Edmure will be too well guarded to rescue.

He might join up with the BwB in the RL. In this case, he would likely use his military knowledge to plan operations against the Lannisters.   Red Wedding 2.0 or a rescue of the Frey prisoners are possibilities. 

I don't see him chasing the will o'the wisp that is Arya.  Her trail is too well covered.  And the fact that she was last seen near Saltpans shortly before it was sacked would force them to consider the real possibility that she is dead and buried anonymously.  (We know she is alive; they have no such knowledge)

There is no reason for them to believe she is in Braavos.  The only reason she is in Braavos is the coin Jaqen gave her and that isn't something they could foresee.

No loans from the Iron Bank either.   As bill-paying entities go, the BwB doesn't really exist.  For one thing, there is no one and no place to go to collect repayment.  And they aren't a big enough threat to use as a pressure point.

I doubt BF goes to the Vale.  He is too well known there, and there are probably too many Lannister supporters for him to be safe.  And there is little he could accomplish there in any event.  If they think Sansa is there, sending someone like Harwin would make more sense.  But I don't know what he could offer.  She is relatively safe where she is, and I doubt that the BwB could do better.  Crossroads Inn doesn't work.  If Brienne hadn't been there, Rorge and gang would have ransacked the place, killing or raping everyone inside.

Greywater Watch - I think Howland Reed is probably helping the BwB in general and likely assisting bands of Northmen in bypassing Moat Cailin to get home.  Given the fact that it is in a swamp and able to move, I doubt it is very big.  I envision something like a manor house and some outbuildings.  Maybe room for a few dozen troops but not much more.

[TheLastWolf]

10 hours ago, Nevets said:

Red Wedding 2.0

I posted a topic about it sometime back, but Lady @Ran removed it citing that it was too toxic, hateful and violent. Yes, it was... But the Freys deserve it.

10 hours ago, Nevets said:

don't see him chasing the will o'the wisp that is Arya.  Her trail is too well covered.  And the fact that she was last seen near Saltpans shortly before it was sacked would force them to consider the real possibility that she is dead and buried anonymously.  (We know she is alive; they have no such knowledge)

There is no reason for them to believe she is in Braavos.  The only reason she is in Braavos is the coin Jaqen gave her and that isn't something they could foresee.

If the loan was for a TULLY then it's possible. Then Arya could meet Harwin or somebody like she met Raff(TWOW SPOILERS) 

[Nevets]

1 hour ago, TheLastWolf said:

I posted a topic about it sometime back, but Lady @Ran removed it citing that it was too toxic, hateful and violent. Yes, it was... But the Freys deserve it.

If the loan was for a TULLY then it's possible. Then Arya could meet Harwin or somebody like she met Raff(TWOW SPOILERS) 

The only Tully left is Edmure, and he's in Lannister custody. so no loans for him, either.  The only character Arya knows I can see going to Braavos is Jeyne Poole.  Certainly nobody from the Brotherhood has reason to go.

[TheLastWolf]

On 7/12/2020 at 1:25 AM, Curled Finger said:

Why would Bf even care about Ned's bones?   He's got living family to worry about and plan to rescue.  If LSH has gone off to the Neck maybe she will encounter the bones, but the bones are of little significance at this juncture.  I do enjoy your reunion at Greywater Watch scenario, I'm just not sold that BF is a necessary part of this. 

Quote

As far as young Ned goes, I theorize that, like a good squire, hes going to bury Beric by his home. Anguy is from the marches too so that works out nicely. 

This quote is from @Hugorfonics in the theory

If Anguy and Edric go to bury Beric, why not Ned who was Cat's husband(Cat was BF's niece)?

[Curled Finger]

7 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

This quote is from @Hugorfonics in the theory

If Anguy and Edric go to bury Beric, why not Ned who was Cat's husband(Cat was BF's niece)?

If I was Blackfish a task such as interring a dead man's bones in the crypts of Winterfell, according to tradition, would be very low on the list of priorities.  Winterfell is occupied by enemies.  This would require a great deal of planning.  As I say, Blackfish has got several more pressing things to do before he would even be in a position to begin planning this.