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“H+L=J” v?.0


TheLastWolf

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1 minute ago, kissdbyfire said:

Oh no, not that Jon had fathered his siblings/cousins! Although that must have been proposed over the years as well, just like Rhaella and. Rhaegar are Dany’s parents. :lmao:

:bang: Now I feel kinda stupid. But after all I've seen, you may never know what bridge is a bridge too far into a loonyville ;)

Ok, so the theory was that Cat pulled a Cersei on the poor Ned, possibly sans incest (but Edmure's there, so I'm sure he was at least floted as the candidate - would've explain all those red hairs).

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12 minutes ago, Miss_Saffron said:

:bang: Now I feel kinda stupid. But after all I've seen, you may never know what bridge is a bridge too far into a loonyville ;)

Yeah, it seems there's no such this as a bridge too far! 

12 minutes ago, Miss_Saffron said:

Ok, so the theory was that Cat pulled a Cersei on the poor Ned, possibly sans incest (but Edmure's there, so I'm sure he was at least floted as the candidate - would've explain all those red hairs).

Perfect! :lol:

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8 hours ago, Miss_Saffron said:

Edmure's there, so I'm sure he was at least floted as the candidate - would've explain all those red hairs

I'm fairly sure I have seen such a proposal in my time on the forums... armed by some poor grasp of genetics.

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23 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Ha! I don’t know if you remember, but there was a “theory” several years back that proposed that none of the Stark kids had been fathered by Ned, only Jon. And that was why Cat was so worried about Jon. :lol:

Speaking of the naughty stepmom theory reminds me of another incestuous one..... Brandon and Lyanna. 

 

I'm sure it was mentioned somewhere, but.... What's everyone's take on that? 

 

It explains why Ned hid Jon's parentage, but I feel it has got a lot of holes. 

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30 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

What's everyone's take on that? 

That Brandon would need time-travelling sperm, for his child to be born a year after his death :D

That there is nothing in Ned's PoVs or anywhere else indicating undue closeness between Brandon and Lyanna, that Ned wouldn't have erected statues for his siblings, had they besmirched the honour of House Stark like that, and that Ned wouldn't have felt shame for not telling Jon, rather the contrary. There does seem to be certain bitterness towards Brandon ("everything was always for Brandon"), but since Ned loved his little sister so much, I think his feelings towards Brandon would have been much harder in case of incest. He was an adult man, after all, the future head of House Stark - I don't think Ned would have had such leniency for him as he might have had for Lyanna.

 

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2 hours ago, Ygrain said:

That Brandon would need time-travelling sperm, for his child to be born a year after his death :D

You know, in the world in which you can catapult your consciousness back in time through magic tree network, how much of a stretch time-traveling sperm really is?

In all seriousness though, as somebody already have mentioned in this thread, any theory that involves anybody not present in the ToJ at the time when Rhaegar and Lyanna went there fails immediately due to biology alone. 

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47 minutes ago, Miss_Saffron said:

You know, in the world in which you can catapult your consciousness back in time through magic tree network, how much of a stretch time-traveling sperm really is?

Catapulting consciousness is fine, I'll start to worry when I see physical parts going through B)

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1 hour ago, Ygrain said:

Catapulting consciousness is fine, I'll start to worry when I see physical parts going through B)

Sure about, that aren't you?

What about teleportation at the bridge of dreams and Howland Reed learning it at the Isle of Faces? 

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/120515-stonemen-and-temporal-shifts/

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/129920-teleportation-in-asoiaf/

 

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2 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

Oh Come on! How can you explain the Bridge of  dreams incident? 

Timeloop? Vision? Illusion? 

And even if it was teleportation, I'm fairly sure Brandon wasn't capable of it.

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17 hours ago, Ygrain said:

Catapulting consciousness is fine, I'll start to worry when I see physical parts going through B)

This casual funny/sarcastic remark lead to me searching for it as a real possibility.

12 hours ago, Loose Bolt said:

I assume that could have been a dream or mirage. After all I would not trust my senses anywhere near place called Bridge of Dreams.

It is a possibility.....but teleportation could also be possible.

10 hours ago, Ygrain said:

Timeloop? Vision? Illusion? 

And even if it was teleportation, I'm fairly sure Brandon wasn't capable of it.

Timeloop is acceptable, but let us suppose that it was a teleportation incident...

15 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

What about teleportation at the bridge of dreams and Howland Reed learning it at the Isle of Faces? 

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/120515-stonemen-and-temporal-shifts/

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/129920-teleportation-in-asoiaf/

If teleportation is real it would explain

  1. Quaithe's sudden appearances (see that asshai link)
  2. Theories that propose people other than Rhaegar as the father of Jon at the tower of Joy, especially Howland reed.
  3. Bridge of dreams incident
  4. and maybe many more
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13 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

If teleportation is real it would explain

  1. Quaithe's sudden appearances (see that asshai link)
  2. Theories that propose people other than Rhaegar as the father of Jon at the tower of Joy, especially Howland reed.
  3. Bridge of dreams incident
  4. and maybe many more

Thing is that 1 and 3 are real incidents, 2 is a theory, so it really shouldn't be lumped with those. For Quaithe, there is already an in-world explanation: glass candles. Which we know are burning. For Bridge of Dreams, there is a parallel with the House of the Undying, which was bigger inside than from the outside and we cannot be sure to which extent it was real or illusion.

Either way: while GRRMth clearly allows for, say, mental magic, like illusions, sending dreams and possibly mind control (or at least manipulation) and interacting with objects allowing and/or enhancing such stuff (glass candles, weirnet), I really see nothing pointing towards teleportation being possible. That's a totally different magic system, and incompatible with what we have seen from GRRMth.

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3 hours ago, Ygrain said:

For Quaithe, there is already an in-world explanation: glass candles. Which we know are burning.

Glass candles need to be with both of those who are communicating. It's like a scrying bowl from the Inheritance cycle (eragon) and this explanation is also just a theory. 

3 hours ago, Ygrain said:

For Bridge of Dreams, there is a parallel with the House of the Undying, which was bigger inside than from the outside and we cannot be sure to which extent it was real or illusion.

Let the HoU be an illusion. That does not rule out my theory of teleportation. At the Same time I ll give you that it could be a time loop. 

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On 7/11/2020 at 11:15 AM, TheLastWolf said:

What about M+L=J? Since many expect Jon to be King of the FF, I'd have thought that there would be theories for it too.

Jon Snow and his personality bears striking similarity to Mance Rayder.  He will be a more suitable choice to lead a tribe of wildlings.

Said @Kierria S in the post mentioned below. 

M + L = J

They were made from the same mold.  Read Qhorin's opinion of Mance in Clash

saidQTR....(see below)in some other post of mine about Jon becoming some King or the other(Others' King?) click to view.

@Quoth the Raven

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3 minutes ago, Orm said:

So is N + L = J a possibility? I mean that could explain why Ned didn't wanna talk about it.....:D

:wacko::ack::bs: Nooooooo waaaaaaay!!! Ned was to honorable to do that. I hope that you were just kidding.:mellow:

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On 7/12/2020 at 4:09 AM, Ygrain said:

That Brandon would need time-travelling sperm, for his child to be born a year after his death :D

Kind of depends on when you think Jon was born.  If you think he was born around the time of the Battle at the tower of joy, then yes, we can rule Brandon out.

If you think he was born sometime before the Battle of the Trident, then it depends on a few things.

We know that the Sack of King’s Landing lasted “close to a year”.  We don’t know Ned’s definition of “close to”.  

The Battle of the Trident occurred roughly two weeks prior to the Sack.  

Jon’s birth between the Battle of the Bells and the Battle of the Trident (closer to the Trident than the Bells, IMO) makes it possible.

Possible, presuming that not too much time elapsed after Lyanna’s disappearance and Arryn calling the banners (assuming that Ned believes the war started when Arryn called the banners).  I would think it would have to be less than a month.  

The only scenario where this could be true, is if Rickard, Brandon, and Lyanna were probably all in the same location, and a location not far from King’s Landing, when everything went ... south.

My thought is they may have all been at Harrenhal together with their wedding party, when Lyanna disappears. Brandon and co. ride to King’s Landing (probably would take a week if they rode hard), ravens fly to Harrenhal, Rickard and co. Ride down to King’s Landing, while Arryn takes Robert and Ned to the Vale (or they had not yet left the Vale).  

 

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4 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

Kind of depends on when you think Jon was born.  If you think he was born around the time of the Battle at the tower of joy, then yes, we can rule Brandon out.

Well, we do know Jon is 8 - 9 months older than Dany.

4 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

If you think he was born sometime before the Battle of the Trident, then it depends on a few things.

We know that the Sack of King’s Landing lasted “close to a year”.  We don’t know Ned’s definition of “close to”.  
 

I’m assuming this is a slip, yeah? The Rebellion lasted close to a year. And IMO “close to a year” means less than a year; say, ~ 10 months. 

4 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

The Battle of the Trident occurred roughly two weeks prior to the Sack.  

Jon’s birth between the Battle of the Bells and the Battle of the Trident (closer to the Trident than the Bells, IMO) makes it possible.

But then Jon would be significantly older than Robb. I know this isn’t an issue for some, but it is for me. Regardless of who is older, Jon and Robb have to be close enough in age, or else a lot of things don’t make sense. My best guesstimate is that the difference between the two has to be roughly 3 months; perhaps less but definitely not more.

4 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

Possible, presuming that not too much time elapsed after Lyanna’s disappearance and Arryn calling the banners (assuming that Ned believes the war started when Arryn called the banners).  I would think it would have to be less than a month.  

The only scenario where this could be true, is if Rickard, Brandon, and Lyanna were probably all in the same location, and a location not far from King’s Landing, when everything went ... south.

My thought is they may have all been at Harrenhal together with their wedding party, when Lyanna disappears. Brandon and co. ride to King’s Landing (probably would take a week if they rode hard), ravens fly to Harrenhal, Rickard and co. Ride down to King’s Landing, while Arryn takes Robert and Ned to the Vale.  

But... Rickard was coming down from the North, and Brandon rides from Riverrun to meet the party when he hears of Lyanna’s “. abduction”. I know a lot of people dismiss info from the app, but I see no reason to do so, especially irt this. 

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