Just A Few Thoughts On Winterfell

[Curled Finger]

Gears turning in Winterfell move its inhabitants closer to disaster.  There are many plots at hand, many great deals on the table.  The Freys jockeying for position and power, Boltons establishing themselves among neighbors who loathe them, Jeyne Poole enslaved to Ramsay Bolton as Arya Stark to cement Ramsay’s claim, Lady Dustin’s intriguing hatred of Ned Stark, Mance and the Spearwives wreaking havoc and something else.  Wyman Manderly holding council right under Roose’s nose, The Umber drums beating out a death dirge.  So much loathing and plotting going on as Stannis plans his attack.  Jon Snow has rallied men at the Nights Watch to march on the Boltons in response to the pink letter.  Theon has taken Ramsay’s bride and escaped right into Stannis’ hands.  This is only what I can remember off the top of my head.

 

Wyman Manderly sent Davos to fetch Rickon under information extracted from Theon’s squire, the mute Wex.  Asha’s small Iron born gang has been ransomed from House Glover.  You can feel the twists and turns pile up in the North, specifically at Winterfell.  Wonder why the Dreadfort isn’t the new seat of power?  Who is likely to forgive Theon the real crimes he committed since so many seem to know Bran and Rickon live?  Have the Liddles told the tale about meeting Bran and Meera, Jojen, Summer and Hodor?  Are the mountain clan men at the Wall there in hopes of intercepting Bran?  Why wouldn’t these clansmen with the Liddles mention anything about this sighting to Jon?  Wouldn’t the trusted neighbors be put on alert to watch out for these kids?  Why didn’t they ever run into any other living people before they got to the Wall?  Was it really a chance meeting in the cave?  We will not be left out of these details in TWOW.  Where is Howland Reed and why isn’t he at Winterfell?  Who is he in collusion with?  What happens if both Rickon and Bran are known to live?  Who can we count on to rescue Bran in hopes of becoming his regent over Manderly and the younger brother?   Where will Davos actually take Rickon?   Wouldn’t it be smarter to take the child to Stannis? What will Stannis and Mance think of the men coming from the Wall?  Why hasn’t Roose sent people to Bear Island and torched it?  The Neck?  Who is actually loyal to House Bolton? 

 

We will not be left out of these details in TWOW.  Or the glorious aftermath.  I think there is a chance the north men with Stannis will add their force to the existing forces in Winterfell and block Stannis from taking Winterfell.  He is just another guy and his people are all up to something.  Mormont?  Really?  A whole lot to think about.  How will it shake out?

[TheLastWolf]

2 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Why hasn’t Roose sent people to Bear Island and torched it? 

Maybe because it's a poor island and not worth it? 

 

2 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

The Neck?  Who is actually loyal to House Bolton? 

Neck is obvious. Impossible. The keeps move, it's dangerous with the bog devils, marshes etc

And no one is loyal to Boltons. Really. 

[Curled Finger]

Just now, TheLastWolf said:

Maybe because it's a poor island and not worth it? 

 

Neck is obvious. Impossible. The keeps move, it's dangerous with the bog devils, marshes etc

And no one is loyal to Boltons. Really. 

Well, yah, but still doesn't it appear that Roose is doing nothing aside from restoring Winterfell?  No heads on spikes for joining Stannis?  What does he think he's actually doing?   I wouldn't put up with any house, great or small, not showing up to my big wedding and castle reopening.  He should be doing something all revengy and Roosey.  

[TheLastWolf]

Just now, Curled Finger said:

Well, yah, but still doesn't it appear that Roose is doing nothing aside from restoring Winterfell?  No heads on spikes for joining Stannis?  What does he think he's actually doing?   I wouldn't put up with any house, great or small, not showing up to my big wedding and castle reopening.  He should be doing something all revengy and Roosey.  

I haven't seen any hints that he's doing something Roosey, but he certainly would be doing it. He's the evil version of Tywin(if you don't think Tywin evil and immoral and Machiavellian already) 

[Curled Finger]

4 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

I haven't seen any hints that he's doing something Roosey, but he certainly would be doing it. He's the evil version of Tywin(if you don't think Tywin evil and immoral and Machiavellian already) 

Brother, I promise you Tywin would have already kicked ass and taken names.   He would have flooded Winterfell by now.  

[Bowen Marsh]

Roose is just waiting for the right moment.  That is how he operates.  He will send out the men who he suspects of disloyalty.  Sure, they can join with Stannis but that only means Lord Stag will have more mouths to feed.  Or burn to death if they eat the dead in desperation.  Roose understands what this is all about.  It is a battle of food and supplies.  He needs the least number of men needed to defend the castle.  Mance Rayder is the wildcard.  Were I to advice Roose, go ahead and kill the wildling before he can work his evil to harm them from within the walls. 

[Curled Finger]

3 hours ago, Bowen Marsh said:

Roose is just waiting for the right moment.  That is how he operates.  He will send out the men who he suspects of disloyalty.  Sure, they can join with Stannis but that only means Lord Stag will have more mouths to feed.  Or burn to death if they eat the dead in desperation.  Roose understands what this is all about.  It is a battle of food and supplies.  He needs the least number of men needed to defend the castle.  Mance Rayder is the wildcard.  Were I to advice Roose, go ahead and kill the wildling before he can work his evil to harm them from within the walls. 

Remember that bit of advice Roose gives about a peaceful land and quiet people? He says it twice, like he's always been some great ruler.   I think it's possible Roose has deluded himself into thinking he's really got control of the North.  Like he's got support, which he knows he doesn't.   I wonder if Roose assumes people will fall in line out of fear?  

[kissdbyfire]

8 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Gears turning in Winterfell move its inhabitants closer to disaster.  There are many plots at hand, many great deals on the table.  The Freys jockeying for position and power, Boltons establishing themselves among neighbors who loathe them, Jeyne Poole enslaved to Ramsay Bolton as Arya Stark to cement Ramsay’s claim, Lady Dustin’s intriguing hatred of Ned Stark, Mance and the Spearwives wreaking havoc and something else.  Wyman Manderly holding council right under Roose’s nose, The Umber drums beating out a death dirge.  So much loathing and plotting going on as Stannis plans his attack.  Jon Snow has rallied men at the Nights Watch to march on the Boltons in response to the pink letter.  Theon has taken Ramsay’s bride and escaped right into Stannis’ hands.  This is only what I can remember off the top of my head.

Yeah... I can’t wait to see how it will all play out!

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Wyman Manderly sent Davos to fetch Rickon under information extracted from Theon’s squire, the mute Wex.  Asha’s small Iron born gang has been ransomed from House Glover.  You can feel the twists and turns pile up in the North, specifically at Winterfell.  Wonder why the Dreadfort isn’t the new seat of power?  Who is likely to forgive Theon the real crimes he committed since so many seem to know Bran and Rickon live?  Have the Liddles told the tale about meeting Bran and Meera, Jojen, Summer and Hodor? 

I’m gonna break it all up to reply, or I’m bound to forget some of these very interesting questions. 

I think it’s very likely that the Liddle talked about meeting Bran & co. But only to a selected few and trustworthy individuals. But even if the Liddle didn’t say anything to anyone, Bran explains that the clansmen are aware of their presence.

“Jojen Reed stopped to catch his breath. “Do you think these mountain folk know we’re here?”
“They know.” Bran had seen them watching; not with his own eyes, but with Summer’s sharper ones, that missed so little. “They won’t bother us so long as we don’t try and make off with their goats or horses.”

 

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Are the mountain clan men at the Wall there in hopes of intercepting Bran?  Why wouldn’t these clansmen with the Liddles mention anything about this sighting to Jon? 

1. We know the “official” story is that the Flint and the Norrey went to CB to deliver wet nurses for Monster. But I think they went in person to take the measure of Jon Snow., and the general situation there. Both clans have joined Stannis, I think both know at least Bran is alive and was headed to the Wall. Did Bran make it to CB? Is he there? That and, again, to meet Jon in person. 

2. Not necessarily. They don’t know Jon... they arrive at CB and Bran is not there. So, either he didn’t make it, or wasn’t going to CB in the first place. Did Jon meet Bran at all? Can they trust Jon? There’s too many variables, and they can’t risk a wrong move, or for sensitive information to reach the wrong people. IMO.

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Wouldn’t the trusted neighbors be put on alert to watch out for these kids?  Why didn’t they ever run into any other living people before they got to the Wall?  Was it really a chance meeting in the cave? 

1. I think Bran/Summer had the right of it, the clansmen did have eyes on Bran and co. 

2. It’s not completely unbelievable... the north is not densely populated, they avoided the KR, etc. But also, it was a demand of the plot.

3. I am not convinced it was a chance meeting at all. Especially if we believe what Bran says. 

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We will not be left out of these details in TWOW.  Where is Howland Reed and why isn’t he at Winterfell?  Who is he in collusion with? 

Howland is probably still down at GW? He could be elsewhere, like BI, or en route... somewhere? It’s impossible to tell. But chances are he has met Mormont and/or Glover; I’m pretty confident he (and M & G at least) are aware of what has happened at MC. The other Glover was w/ Manderly... so many possibilities, so little actual info!  

 

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What happens if both Rickon and Bran are known to live? 

Not sure what you mean? Are you talking about rights to Winterfell and such? If so, Bran comes first, but there’s so much that has to be considered as well! For instance, neither Bran nor Rickon are of age, and neither would make for a good leader during the LN. What happens after all the upcoming wars is hard to predict at this point, I think. 

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Who can we count on to rescue Bran in hopes of becoming his regent over Manderly and the younger brother?

I don’t think that’s gonna happen. Meaning, I don’t think there will be anyone acting as Bran’s regent in a Bran’s regent vs Rickon’s regent type of scenario. 

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  Where will Davos actually take Rickon?   Wouldn’t it be smarter to take the child to Stannis? What will Stannis and Mance think of the men coming from the Wall?

1. I think there are two questions here...

a) Where will Davos want to take Rickon?

b) Where will Davos, Rickon & co actually end up?

I don’t think Davos will try to go to WH, as that would be too dangerous by sea during autumn/winter. Maybe he will try to go to EbtS? But he may end up going to HH. 

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  Why hasn’t Roose sent people to Bear Island and torched it?  The Neck?  Who is actually loyal to House Bolton? 

1. Why? What would he gain from torching BI? Roose is in a delicate position, and he knows it. He has to save his strength and stay put and safe in Winterfell. 

2. What about the Neck? 

3. The Freys, out of necessity, and the IT, to an extent. 

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We will not be left out of these details in TWOW.  Or the glorious aftermath.  I think there is a chance the north men with Stannis will add their force to the existing forces in Winterfell and block Stannis from taking Winterfell.  He is just another guy and his people are all up to something.  Mormont?  Really?  A whole lot to think about.  How will it shake out?

I think the northerners  will remain loyal to Stannis. For now anyways.

[kissdbyfire]

26 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Remember that bit of advice Roose gives about a peaceful land and quiet people? He says it twice, like he's always been some great ruler.   I think it's possible Roose has deluded himself into thinking he's really got control of the North.  Like he's got support, which he knows he doesn't.   I wonder if Roose assumes people will fall in line out of fear?  

I don’t think so... Roose is many things, but he’s not stupid. 

ADwD, A Ghost in Winterfell

“Wyman Manderly laughed, but half a dozen of his knights were on their feet at once. It fell to Roger Ryswell and Barbrey Dustin to calm them with quiet words. Roose Bolton said nothing at all. But Theon Greyjoy saw a look in his pale eyes that he had never seen before—an uneasiness, even a hint of fear.”

.

[Bowen Marsh]

1 hour ago, Curled Finger said:

Remember that bit of advice Roose gives about a peaceful land and quiet people? He says it twice, like he's always been some great ruler.   I think it's possible Roose has deluded himself into thinking he's really got control of the North.  Like he's got support, which he knows he doesn't.   I wonder if Roose assumes people will fall in line out of fear?  

Oh he knows there are traitors in his camp. 

[Curled Finger]

20 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Yeah... I can’t wait to see how it will all play out!

I’m gonna break it all up to reply, or I’m bound to forget some of these very interesting questions. 

I think it’s very likely that the Liddle talked about meeting Bran & co. But only to a selected few and trustworthy individuals. But even if the Liddle didn’t say anything to anyone, Bran explains that the clansmen are aware of their presence.

“Jojen Reed stopped to catch his breath. “Do you think these mountain folk know we’re here?”
“They know.” Bran had seen them watching; not with his own eyes, but with Summer’s sharper ones, that missed so little. “They won’t bother us so long as we don’t try and make off with their goats or horses.”

 

1. We know the “official” story is that the Flint and the Norrey went to CB to deliver wet nurses for Monster. But I think they went in person to take the measure of Jon Snow., and the general situation there. Both clans have joined Stannis, I think both know at least Bran is alive and was headed to the Wall. Did Bran make it to CB? Is he there? That and, again, to meet Jon in person. 

2. Not necessarily. They don’t know Jon... they arrive at CB and Bran is not there. So, either he didn’t make it, or wasn’t going to CB in the first place. Did Jon meet Bran at all? Can they trust Jon? There’s too many variables, and they can’t risk a wrong move, or for sensitive information to reach the wrong people. IMO.

1. I think Bran/Summer had the right of it, the clansmen did have eyes on Bran and co. 

2. It’s not completely unbelievable... the north is not densely populated, they avoided the KR, etc. But also, it was a demand of the plot.

3. I am not convinced it was a chance meeting at all. Especially if we believe what Bran says. 

Howland is probably still down at GW? He could be elsewhere, like BI, or en route... somewhere? It’s impossible to tell. But chances are he has met Mormont and/or Glover; I’m pretty confident he (and M & G at least) are aware of what has happened at MC. The other Glover was w/ Manderly... so many possibilities, so little actual info!  

 

Not sure what you mean? Are you talking about rights to Winterfell and such? If so, Bran comes first, but there’s so much that has to be considered as well! For instance, neither Bran nor Rickon are of age, and neither would make for a good leader during the LN. What happens after all the upcoming wars is hard to predict at this point, I think. 

I don’t think that’s gonna happen. Meaning, I don’t think there will be anyone acting as Bran’s regent in a Bran’s regent vs Rickon’s regent type of scenario. 

1. I think there are two questions here...

a) Where will Davos want to take Rickon?

b) Where will Davos, Rickon & co actually end up?

I don’t think Davos will try to go to WH, as that would be too dangerous by sea during autumn/winter. Maybe he will try to go to EbtS? But he may end up going to HH. 

1. Why? What would he gain from torching BI? Roose is in a delicate position, and he knows it. He has to save his strength and stay put and safe in Winterfell. 

2. What about the Neck? 

3. The Freys, out of necessity, and the IT, to an extent. 

I think the northerners  will remain loyal to Stannis. For now anyways.

I love it when you take the opportunity to put your knowledge and good sense to work in a topic.  So thorough and provoking.   I found myself rereading Bran Vras' most excellent Huis Clos again.  There is so much going on and I'm not sure we've actually come up with every scenario.  We have a version of what could happen and hundreds of ideas right here.  You know I think a lot about how to get things/people to where I think they need to be and honestly, Stannis' story line had me stumped and I think a great deal depends on Stannis.  I really appreciate the cautious posture you take with Roose and it makes a lot of sense.   Even he knows he's in a precarious situation.   I get hung up on that line about the quiet people and probably shouldn't try to impose my own reasons why he would think this.  Roose's rule feels hinky.   I may want more from him than we actually get and as happens from time to time, my own impressions of the character could be way overrated.  He is an ass, after all.  Roose was in Robb's council, he's got to know how much Robb trusted the Mormonts.   When I am able to get objective, it seems to me that destroying Bear Island and House Mormont seems like an easy way to pull a little Tywinesq terrorism and give the North something to think about with regard to his New World Order. 

Thanks a million for the reminders that Bran does believe his group is being watched by the mountain clansmen.  I am trying to find a connection between Bran's encounter, lack of further encounter and the clansmen joining Stannis.   Their motives are suspect.  I don't recall another instance of the Northern Lords visiting the Wall, but I reckon Tyrion's visit may have shown how common it is to want to go.  In that Bran is sure they are watching him, is it safe to assume the clansmen know who/what Coldhands is and trusted this creature to escort Bran?  That line of thinking implies a greater magical knowledge inherent to the clansmen perhaps due to their location.   Not trying to go over the top, just trying to figure out reasonable passage for Bran's extraction.  Seems to me the northmen south of the Wall have no indication about Bran and may be hinging an awful lot on Rickon.   Could there be a hidden power play among those forces aligning between both little boy?  I have always assumed Bran was a much bigger secret by virtue of only actually running into a single live person.   If Rickon is a rallying point (presumably delivered to Stannis), wouldn't the northmen in his company already know Bran is alive?  I can't put the factions together with motives.  We make so much of Dany's proclamations (you will have a sword like no other) or Ned's and Jon's predictions for Arya, I am making much of Bran's resolve to pay the Liddle back.   

Bran ate one of each, and still did not know which sort he liked the best. One day there would be Starks in Winterfell again, he told himself, and then he'd send for the Liddles and pay them back a hundredfold for every nut and berry.  ASOS Bran II

There is determination in those thoughts, perhaps not prophecy.  

Where will Davos actually take Rickon, indeed.  I'm with you on White Harbor being least likely of all possibilities, though Winterfell seems quite a stretch, too.   Are the Skagosi more Wildling or south Northern culture?  Who should we expect them to align with should they show up?  I ask this because eventual appearance with the Nights Watch seems most likely to me.  Although I suppose Davos could land anywhere, Hardhome among the places...and wouldn't that be the twist with a rescue mission already planned?  But Davos has to understand how important a role Rickon could play in Stannis' bid for power.  I would get the kid to Stannis in his place.  Though Stannis does send "Arya" to the Wall.  Maybe Davos has that much faith in Jon?    

Gads, so much in all of this.   Again, you rock for spending your time and reasonable words here.   I look forward to more of your thoughts if this conversation progresses.  

[Curled Finger]

1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

I don’t think so... Roose is many things, but he’s not stupid. 

ADwD, A Ghost in Winterfell

“Wyman Manderly laughed, but half a dozen of his knights were on their feet at once. It fell to Roger Ryswell and Barbrey Dustin to calm them with quiet words. Roose Bolton said nothing at all. But Theon Greyjoy saw a look in his pale eyes that he had never seen before—an uneasiness, even a hint of fear.”

.

Ah bitchen good stuff, YES.   

[Curled Finger]

4 minutes ago, Bowen Marsh said:

Oh he knows there are traitors in his camp. 

As this conversation unwinds I am seeing more similarity between Roose and Stannis' precarious situations.   Your short sentence glared that at me. 

[Bowen Marsh]

Just now, Curled Finger said:

As this conversation unwinds I am seeing more similarity between Roose and Stannis' precarious situations.   Your short sentence glared that at me. 

He knows, he knows.  What does he plan to do about it except send them out.  Stannis is theorized to have a trap planned.  Well, so Roose sends those with unreliable loyalties to meet Stannis in battle.  Guess who will fall into the deadly trap?  Whatever that trap might be.  A hole in the ice? 

[Curled Finger]

Just now, Bowen Marsh said:

He knows, he knows.  What does he plan to do about it except send them out.  Stannis is theorized to have a trap planned.  Well, so Roose sends those with unreliable loyalties to meet Stannis in battle.  Guess who will fall into the deadly trap?  Whatever that trap might be.  A hole in the ice? 

This is what I am thinking, but seem to have expanded the idea to include wondering how this will blow back on Stannis as well.  

[kissdbyfire]

1 minute ago, Curled Finger said:

This is what I am thinking, but seem to have expanded the idea to include wondering how this will blow back on Stannis as well.  

I don’t think it will. Not anytime soon anyways. Stannis may be seen as a southron foreigner by the northerners in general, but it will boil down to the enemy of my enemy is my friend kinda thing. Because as much as they might dislike/mistrust Stannis, they absolitely hate, despise and loathe the Boltons and Freys. For a long time, but especially now, after the RW. 

[Curled Finger]

11 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

I don’t think it will. Not anytime soon anyways. Stannis may be seen as a southron foreigner by the northerners in general, but it will boil down to the enemy of my enemy is my friend kinda thing. Because as much as they might dislike/mistrust Stannis, they absolitely hate, despise and loathe the Boltons and Freys. For a long time, but especially now, after the RW. 

This is precisely where my thoughts tear.  GRRM made a comment after the close of Season 5 that he was thinking about changing the direction of a character that would impact 4 other characters.  Season 5 is where Stannis was killed among other horrible things many have predicted.  It is interesting that the clansmen are willing to join Stannis in outright defiance of Bolton.  I can't picture Stannis getting any real or mass traction anymore.  If Stannis wins big at Winterfell that could imply that the clansmen would be raised somehow among the nobility?   Could Stannis really take these people on as counselors?  He doesn't seem to spend much time with them or talking to them.   He burned some of them for having unsavory snacks when they were dying of starvation.   Frankly I am at a loss as to why the clansmen are involved anywhere.  

[kissdbyfire]

22 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

It is interesting that the clansmen are willing to join Stannis in outright defiance of Bolton. 

Stannis followed Jon’s advice, and it worked. The clansmen hate the Boltons, and Stannis offered them a perfect opportunity to do something about it. As Hugo Big Bucket Wull says, better than anyone could.

“That seemed to amuse the northman. “I want to live forever in a land where summer lasts a thousand years. I want a castle in the clouds where I can look down over the world. I want to be six-and-twenty again. When I was six-and-twenty I could fight all day and fuck all night. What men want does not matter.
“Winter is almost upon us, boy. And winter is death. I would sooner my men die fighting for the Ned’s little girl than alone and hungry in the snow, weeping tears that freeze upon their cheeks. No one sings songs of men who die like that. As for me, I am old. This will be my last winter. Let me bathe in Bolton blood before I die. I want to feel it spatter across my face when my axe bites deep into a Bolton skull. I want to lick it off my lips and die with the taste of it on my tongue.”

 

22 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

I can't picture Stannis getting any real or mass traction anymore. 

We are told that after he took DM back, more and more men were joining Stannis every day. 

“… more northmen coming in as word spreads of our victory. Fisherfolk, freeriders, hillmen, crofters from the deep of the wolfswood and villagers who fled their homes along the stony shore to escape the ironmen, survivors from the battle outside the gates of Winterfell, men once sworn to the Hornwoods, the Cerwyns, and the Tallharts. We are five thousand strong as I write, our numbers swelling every day.”

 

22 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

If Stannis wins big at Winterfell that could imply that the clansmen would be raised somehow among the nobility?   Could Stannis really take these people on as counselors? 

I don’t know. I’m not even sure they would want that? At any rate, Stannis is the only character we have seen so far who has raised a commoner based on merit. 

22 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

He doesn't seem to spend much time with them or talking to them.   He burned some of them for having unsavory snacks when they were dying of starvation.   Frankly I am at a loss as to why the clansmen are involved anywhere.  

No, the men he burned for cannibalism were Peasebury men, from the Stormlands. 

ADwD, The Sacrifice

“Asha had been as horrified as the rest when the She-Bear told her that four Peasebury men had been found butchering one of the late Lord Fell’s, carving chunks of flesh from his thighs and buttocks as one of his forearms turned upon a spit, but she could not pretend to be surprised. The four were not the first to taste human flesh during this grim march, she would wager—only the first to be discovered.
Peasebury’s four would pay for their feast with their lives, by the king’s decree … and by burning end the storm, the queen’s men claimed. Asha Greyjoy put no faith in their red god, yet she prayed they had the right of that. If not, there would be other pyres, and Ser Clayton Suggs might get his heart’s desire.”

 

[Curled Finger]

1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

Stannis followed Jon’s advice, and it worked. The clansmen hate the Boltons, and Stannis offered them a perfect opportunity to do something about it. As Hugo Big Bucket Wull says, better than anyone could.

“That seemed to amuse the northman. “I want to live forever in a land where summer lasts a thousand years. I want a castle in the clouds where I can look down over the world. I want to be six-and-twenty again. When I was six-and-twenty I could fight all day and fuck all night. What men want does not matter.
“Winter is almost upon us, boy. And winter is death. I would sooner my men die fighting for the Ned’s little girl than alone and hungry in the snow, weeping tears that freeze upon their cheeks. No one sings songs of men who die like that. As for me, I am old. This will be my last winter. Let me bathe in Bolton blood before I die. I want to feel it spatter across my face when my axe bites deep into a Bolton skull. I want to lick it off my lips and die with the taste of it on my tongue.”

 

We are told that after he took DM back, more and more men were joining Stannis every day. 

“… more northmen coming in as word spreads of our victory. Fisherfolk, freeriders, hillmen, crofters from the deep of the wolfswood and villagers who fled their homes along the stony shore to escape the ironmen, survivors from the battle outside the gates of Winterfell, men once sworn to the Hornwoods, the Cerwyns, and the Tallharts. We are five thousand strong as I write, our numbers swelling every day.”

 

I don’t know. I’m not even sure they would want that? At any rate, Stannis is the only character we have seen so far who has raised a commoner based on merit. 

No, the men he burned for cannibalism were Peasebury men, from the Stormlands. 

ADwD, The Sacrifice

“Asha had been as horrified as the rest when the She-Bear told her that four Peasebury men had been found butchering one of the late Lord Fell’s, carving chunks of flesh from his thighs and buttocks as one of his forearms turned upon a spit, but she could not pretend to be surprised. The four were not the first to taste human flesh during this grim march, she would wager—only the first to be discovered.
Peasebury’s four would pay for their feast with their lives, by the king’s decree … and by burning end the storm, the queen’s men claimed. Asha Greyjoy put no faith in their red god, yet she prayed they had the right of that. If not, there would be other pyres, and Ser Clayton Suggs might get his heart’s desire.”

 

As usual your recall is fantastic and it's good to balance the truths I forget against musings about ulterior motives.   I don't know that the clansmen would want some higher status, only that their entry into the intrigues of the South are unsettling (to me) at this point in time.  Your quotes are the truth.   Perhaps it is my own values that couldn't be satisfied with these stated motives, so I am looking for something I can better understand.   In this light I can see Stannis is gaining more traction and support.   I just don't trust the support for this particular guy.   Maybe I became too complacent in Stannis' constant defeats.  

[BlackLightning]

Just now, Curled Finger said:

As usual your recall is fantastic and it's good to balance the truths I forget against musings about ulterior motives.   I don't know that the clansmen would want some higher status, only that their entry into the intrigues of the South are unsettling (to me) at this point in time.  Your quotes are the truth.   Perhaps it is my own values that couldn't be satisfied with these stated motives, so I am looking for something I can better understand.   In this light I can see Stannis is gaining more traction and support.   I just don't trust the support for this particular guy.   Maybe I became too complacent in Stannis' constant defeats.  

Don't get ahead of yourself.

Stannis is gaining traction for the moment but when Sansa, Jon, Bran, Arya and Rickon all show back up (not in that order) and reunite, all that support for Stannis going to go out of the window.

Don't forget that Stannis is just an opportunity to avenge (or in the case of "Arya," save) the Starks. He's a placeholder and that'll be made abundantly clear once the Starks come out of hiding.

And out of all of them, I suspect that Sansa (or maybe even Rickon) will get there first. Stannis claims that he has not forgotten about "Lady Lannister" but his actions say that he has.