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Symbolism 101: An Introduction to Symbols in ASOIAF


Seams

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Obviously, if  you are not interested in symbolism in ASOIAF or you actively hate it, you should leave now without commenting.

I am offering an example here of a symbol whose meaning I have not fully discerned. If you are interested in guessing at the meaning (or in offering more evidence to help clarify the symbolism) feel free to join in the thread. If people like the discussion, I will try to come up with additional symbols and motifs for discussion.

Fruit is a major motif in the books so peaches should be considered in the larger context of apples, plums, oranges, etc. GRRM also seems to equate fruits with body parts.

Peaches

Robert is a peach-eater:

"You need to come south," Robert told him. "You need a taste of summer before it flees. In Highgarden there are fields of golden roses that stretch away as far as the eye can see. The fruits are so ripe they explode in your mouth—melons, peaches, fireplums, you've never tasted such sweetness. You'll see, I brought you some.

(Robert to Ned, AGoT, Eddard I)

Renly is a peach-eater but Stannis is not:

"All this of snakes and incest is droll, but it changes nothing. You may well have the better claim, Stannis, but I still have the larger army." Renly's hand slid inside his cloak. Stannis saw, and reached at once for the hilt of his sword, but before he could draw steel his brother produced . . . a peach. "Would you like one, brother?" Renly asked, smiling. "From Highgarden. You've never tasted anything so sweet, I promise you." He took a bite. Juice ran from the corner of his mouth.

"I did not come here to eat fruit." Stannis was fuming.

(Renly and Stannis, ACoK, Catelyn III)

Gendry is not a peach-eater:

On the east side of the market square stood a modest inn with whitewashed walls and broken windows. Half its roof had burnt off recently, but the hole had been patched over. Above the door hung a wooden shingle painted as a peach, with a big bite taken out of it.

 

The girl did have hair like the old king's, Arya thought; a great thick mop of it, as black as coal. That doesn't mean anything, though. Gendry has the same kind of hair too. Lots of people have black hair.

"I'm named Bella," the girl told Gendry. "For the battle. I bet I could ring your bell, too. You want to?"

"No," he said gruffly.

"I bet you do." She ran a hand along his arm. "I don't cost nothing to friends of Thoros and the lightning lord."

"No, I said." Gendry rose abruptly and stalked away from the table out into the night.

Bella turned to Arya. "Don't he like girls?"

Arya shrugged. "He's just stupid. He likes to polish helmets and beat on swords with hammers."

(Gendry at The Peach brothel, ASoS, Arya V)

 

Oddly, I find that Grand Maester Pycelle is apparently a peach-eater:

We would walk in the gardens by the river and argue about the gods. I remember the smells of those nights, my lord—perfume and sweat, melons ripe to bursting, peaches and pomegranates, nightshade and moonbloom. I was a young man then, still forging my chain. The heat did not exhaust me as it does now." Pycelle's eyes were so heavily lidded he looked half-asleep. "My pardons, Lord Eddard. You did not come to hear foolish meanderings of a summer forgotten before your father was born. Forgive an old man his wanderings, if you would. Minds are like swords, I do fear. The old ones go to rust.

(AGoT, Eddard V)

Some of the clues here seem to be the contrasting of peaches and swords: Renly reaches for a peach and Stannis responds by reaching for his sword; Gendry doesn’t want to sleep with Bella and Arya says he instead likes to hammer on swords; Pycelle used to like hot (peach ripening) weather but his mind is now like a rusty sword.

The Robert passage and the Pycelle passage both emphasize the hot weather associated with peaches.

GRRM’s subtle phrasing in the Pycelle passage may provide an important insight about the Grand Maester: he may embody summer, and his energy is diminishing now that he is old.

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19 minutes ago, Orm said:

It maybe that George likes peaches? Or am I being dense here?

No one likes peaches that much. (Even me :).)

The fruit motif got a surprisingly potent boost with the wildfire pots - which were foreshadowed by Robert's exploding fruits. Since when in literature did fruit merit foreshadowing?

I can't say George's symbolism is clear exactly, but I think we can take away the idea of sweetness being a strong force. Something to watch, at least.

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I think it’s possible that fruit, and peaches which is the example here, symbolise a sense of pleasure and joy. It’s even used as a symbol for a brothel. All the characters you mention such as Renly, Robert and even Pycelle are all shown to enjoy the pleasures in life. A man like Stannis is mistrustful of such people and for him to have a peach in the books would massively surprise me; he is not a man who does things for pleasure. Gendry is a blacksmith, a young man who has been taken prisoner and had to flee his home. His mindset is not one that seeks pleasure and so he finds the prostitute uncomfortable. That’s why they are ‘anti-peach’ while the other characters who are more able to find pleasure are shown with peaches

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Well, we all know that oranges are a symbol and harbinger of death. So maybe the peaches are the symbol of decadence, dissipation, impotence. Note how they were called out for

  • Robert Baratheon: a failed king, weak, fattened by luxury
  • Renly Baratheon: would be king and war leader, playing games with his vast hordes in the meadows while eating up the produce of the countryside.
  • A whorehouse: enough said.
  • Grand Maester Pycelle: ancient, doddering, well past his sell date.

Add that Gendry rejected "The Peach"'s abundance indicates he's still a vital force, with things to do and a life to lead.

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4 hours ago, Orm said:

It maybe that George likes peaches? Or am I being dense here?

Heh. He REALLY likes neeps. Boiled and buttered, maybe mashed. Is it significant that we are not seeing neeps all that often? (And don't let me change the subject; just skip over this as another off-topic remark! Just consider it a manifestation of my decadent nature. Now, to eat that peach...)

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I read the OP twice.  I think we all have some code breaking superstition that when GRRM repeats a thing one should pay attention.  I am not sure.   I found 3 instances of a small thing and have yet to determine its meaning.  Much is made of Renly's peach and Stannis' refusal to partake, but it's very interesting that you were able to add Robert to the illustration.  Robert and Renly offer something sweet--a peace of sorts, a joy for certain--to 2 very straight, dutiful and responsible characters.  Bella, a possible sister, offers the same to her brother.  Could it be encouragement to loosen up and take walk on the walk side?  Not entirely because as you show, the peach represents sweet things and the pursuit of them.  As you added GM Pycell it struck me that he recalls happier times and relishes his memories and realizes he has prattled on to a man who cannot understand being carefree.  Can we draw comparisons to Ned, Stannis and Gendry?  Oh yah, every bit as much as we can between Bella, Robert and Renly.  I think your peach is perhaps a personal philosophy for GRRM.  

These peaches recall to me Maester Aemon's own advice to Jon: "for love is the bane of honor, the death of duty." The ages of the characters and cautions are inverted, an old man telling a young man the consequences of eating a proverbial peach.  

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58 minutes ago, zandru said:

Well, we all know that oranges are a symbol and harbinger of death. So maybe the peaches are the symbol of decadence, dissipation, impotence. Note how they were called out for

  • Robert Baratheon: a failed king, weak, fattened by luxury
  • Renly Baratheon: would be king and war leader, playing games with his vast hordes in the meadows while eating up the produce of the countryside.
  • A whorehouse: enough said.
  • Grand Maester Pycelle: ancient, doddering, well past his sell date.

Add that Gendry rejected "The Peach"'s abundance indicates he's still a vital force, with things to do and a life to lead.

 I also had the same thought that perhaps a peach could be symbolised as a negative, as more of a sign of overindulgence and gluttony, but it depends on the perspective

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I'm going to go with a more lewd interpretation but it fits well with what's already been suggested. I often see peaches symbolically associated with...well listen to Prince's Peach and take a look at the cover for the single. GRRM also seems to be following this pattern. Peaches and Summer fruit have juices running down, they burst, explode, have bites taken. In House of Cards (1x03), a teenager texts while driving that the local peach-shaped watertower looks like, well, you can see in the clip below. She dies in a car wreck because of texting while driving.

Sorry about the quality. It's the only one I can find right now. No spoilers for House of Cards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0t5Qh_2l1A

Anyways, I find this interpretation consistent with the text in that peaches represent carnal luxuries and being too into peaches means you're not properly focused on what you're doing (in HoC, that would be driving). So it's not that Gendry doesn't like girls, he just won't allow himself to be distracted by them. Pycelle says minds are like swords and if neglected, they go to rust. Peaches can be dangerous distractions when one allows it.

ACOK Catelyn II

"War will make them old," Catelyn said, "as it did us." She had been a girl when Robert and Ned and Jon Arryn raised their banners against Aerys Targaryen, a woman by the time the fighting was done. "I pity them."

"Why?" Lord Rowan asked her. "Look at them. They're young and strong, full of life and laughter. And lust, aye, more lust than they know what to do with. There will be many a bastard bred this night, I promise you. Why pity?"

"Because it will not last," Catelyn answered, sadly. "Because they are the knights of summer, and winter is coming."

"Lady Catelyn, you are wrong." Brienne regarded her with eyes as blue as her armor. "Winter will never come for the likes of us. Should we die in battle, they will surely sing of us, and it's always summer in the songs. In the songs all knights are gallant, all maids are beautiful, and the sun is always shining."
 
Winter comes for all of us, Catelyn thought. For me, it came when Ned died. It will come for you too, child, and sooner than you like. She did not have the heart to say it.

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44 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

I'm going to go with a more lewd interpretation ....

And, in this vein, just look at how they're shaped. And that suggestive cleft...

Oh, and thanks for bringing up the House of Cards episodes with "the Peachizoid" (or whatever they called it.)

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2 minutes ago, zandru said:

And, in this vein, just look at how they're shaped. And that suggestive cleft...

:blush:

That next trip to the grocery store just got more interesting.

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Like @Curled Finger I'm a bit skeptical as to whether every mention of peaches or other foods are supposed to be meaningful or that it always symbolizes the same thing. That said, I pay attention when peaches are mentioned by itself (i.e. not as part of a list of foods), especially when there's sticky juice. Here's a couple more notable peaches:

 

That night they'd spent devouring peaches and each other, and by the time daylight returned Asha was sated and sticky and as happy as she'd ever been. Was that six years ago, or seven? Summer was a fading memory, and it had been three years since Asha last enjoyed a peach. She still enjoyed Qarl, though. The captains and the kings might not have wanted her, but he did. - The Wayward Bride, ADWD
 
"I've brought you a peach," Ser Jorah said, kneeling. It was so small she could almost hide it in her palm, and overripe too, but when she took the first bite, the flesh was so sweet she almost cried. She ate it slowly, savoring every mouthful, while Ser Jorah told her of the tree it had been plucked from, in a garden near the western wall.
"Fruit and water and shade," Dany said, her cheeks sticky with peach juice. "The gods were good to bring us to this place." - Daenerys I, ACOK

Best I can tell, peaches represent living in the moment; having the type of carefree joy that a summer child has.

I kind of feel like Stannis atm, sure to go my grave thinking about Renly's GRRM's peaches.

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Apropos of nothing, people sure were messy eaters in ASOIAF. We're always reading about how peach juice runs down faces, grease runs down into beards, doublets and tunics are stained with wine, and so on. Mayhap the "napkin" had not been invented, nor anyone taught how to use one.

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Some wonderful ideas here! Thanks to everyone for sharing your thoughts.

After pondering the peach excerpts and your comments, my own thinking is that the message here is that peaches are for lovers; swords are for fighters. When a character chooses a peach he is saying, "I'm a lover, not a fighter." When he rejects a peach, we know he is willing to engage in combat.

But how do we reconcile this with Robert Baratheon, who began fathering children before engaging in Robert's Rebellion? Bella was apparently conceived during a respite in the war? He had obviously not sworn off combat at the time he was enjoying the Peach brothel.

@Springwatch also makes the important connection to the wildfire grenades that Aerys specified should be shaped like fruit. If weapons of mass destruction are shaped like fruit, how can a peach represent, well, peace?

Renly also points out that his army is bigger just before offering Stannis a peach.

My best guess is that this is another case where GRRM is telling us that balance of opposing forces is necessary. He sets up his own unique pairs of contrasting symbols throughout ASOIAF: shaggy and sharp, bitter and sweet, smiler and slayer, shadow and rainbow, ice and fire, giant and dwarf, blood and water, iron and silk. I suspect that the characters who can strike a balance between these contrasting forces are able to thrive on some level. Even though Robert strikes the reader as a washed-up warrior who has deteriorated into a life of indulgence, the larger point may be that he was able to summon the strength, skill and strategy for combat when he needed it and he also excels at procreation when he chooses that path.

Aerys was bad at both procreation and combat. Many of his children were stillborn or died as babies. Instead of making love to his wife, he entered into a loveless marriage and then either rejected or raped Rhaella. He tried to stockpile the weapon known as wildfire - perversely using fruit fertility symbols as containers - but he died because of his destructive plot (Jaime slayed him because he didn't want the king to destroy the city) and the containers were unstable, creating a risk as leaking caches of the deadly explosive were discovered stashed around the city. So Aerys was desperate to be one of the balancing characters with skill at both fertility and combat, but his failure to understand either area of expertise led to his downfall and the downfall of his House.

When Renly brags about his army and then produces a peach, he is engaged in diplomacy. He is trying to persuade Stannis to make common cause with him, avoiding war by creating an alliance and offering to make Shireen his heir (a fertility gesture, acknowledging the offspring of Stannis). But we know that Stannis rarely sleeps with his wife. He is a fighter, not a lover. He rejects the offer from Renly. The two remaining Baratheon brothers represent a splitting of the lover/fighter qualities that Robert had managed to balance. When Stannis next "fathers" offspring, it is a shadow baby born from Melisandre - the weaponizing of fertility, like Aerys joining wildfire with fruit to make arson grenades.

In GRRM's motifs of matching body parts with fruit, the body part that matches peaches seems to be cheeks. So we might get more clues by looking at Sandor Clegane and Brienne who suffer horrific wounds on their cheeks. When Biter takes chunks out of Brienne's cheek, it is Renly-lookalike Gendry who rescues her with the sword he made. Lucky for her that he chose the sword instead of the peach.

Reconciling the lover/fighter, peach/sword juxtaposition will also require a close look at House Tyrell. Peaches originate in the Reach (I suspect part of the Garth Greenhands symbolism) but the Tyrells are desirable allies because they command a large army. They achieve the balance between peaches and swords, fertility and combat. When we meet Garlan Tyrell, his wife if pregnant. But he is revealed to the reader as the man who wore Renly's armor into combat - Renly didn't wear it into combat (in fact, he died in that armor) but Garlan is a balancer, I suspect, as a key player in the House Tyrell balancing act.

One of the things I love about digging into literary analysis of ASOIAF is that one line of thinking often leads to others. These may be topics for other threads, but two new thoughts that are spinning off of this peach analysis are:

1) In his desperation to hang onto power, Aerys was trying to take on the powers or trappings of varied religions. His obsession with the Mystery Knight may have been an attempt to capture The Stranger; the burning of Rickard Stark was a R'hllor sacrifice; the strangling of Brandon Stark may have been an allusion to a bridle or halter that evoked the Dothraki horse god. The fruit wildfire grenades were a Garth Greenhands wannabee gesture. As with his messed-up lover and fighter strategies, however, Aerys fails at evoking the godhead.

2) Peaches contain pits and this is probably linked to the dragon pit. The dragon pit was one of the three main structures of the city, along with the Great Sept and the Red Keep. By constructing the pit, was House Targaryen "planting a seed" for future dragon activity? Is a pit just another seed to go with Jon Arryn's "The seed is strong" advice, or is it something different? The dragon pit ended up being a trap where chained dragons were attacked and killed, so the fertility strategy - if that's what it was - ended up backfiring.

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On 7/14/2020 at 11:36 AM, Seams said:

Fruit is a major motif in the books so peaches should be considered in the larger context of apples, plums, oranges, etc.

Well, then clearly this is a reference to the great albumby the Allman Brothers Band "Eat a Peach."  I am only half joking.  GRRM is a well known hippie and dead head, and The Allman Brothers are certainly a "jam band," so I wouldn't doubt that he is a fan. 

In addition, from the article I linked above the name from the album came from this quote from their then deceased bandleader, Duane Allman:

Quote

"You can't help the revolution, because there's just evolution ... Every time I'm in Georgia, I eat a peach for peace ... the two-legged Georgia variety." 

Now, Clearly the two-legged variety means this is a sexual inuendo of some type, but I couldn't really tell you what kind... or what body part it may be refernecing.  Tho, peaches are fuzzy and sweet, so?  I'll stop there.  Maybe it is generically referring to someone you find sweet in general.  yeah, that's the ticket.  

Still though, the peace thing also stands out to me.  Make love not war.  When Renly ate the peach he was telling Stannis that they shouldn't fight eachother.  Pycelle rarely counseled the path that might lead to war, and he referred to walking peacefully by the gardens in Oldtown in the passage you quote.  Robert, well he loved to make friends of his enemies.  Gendry, well he definitely needed to eat a peach, given how sweet he is / was on Arya.

So If I had to say what peaches represent, it's peace and love. 

Peace,

TGB

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On 7/14/2020 at 6:45 PM, Hodor the Articulate said:
Like @Curled Finger I'm a bit skeptical as to whether every mention of peaches or other foods are supposed to be meaningful or that it always symbolizes the same thing. That said, I pay attention when peaches are mentioned by itself (i.e. not as part of a list of foods), especially when there's sticky juice. Here's a couple more notable peaches:

 

That night they'd spent devouring peaches and each other, and by the time daylight returned Asha was sated and sticky and as happy as she'd ever been. Was that six years ago, or seven? Summer was a fading memory, and it had been three years since Asha last enjoyed a peach. She still enjoyed Qarl, though. The captains and the kings might not have wanted her, but he did. - The Wayward Bride, ADWD
 
"I've brought you a peach," Ser Jorah said, kneeling. It was so small she could almost hide it in her palm, and overripe too, but when she took the first bite, the flesh was so sweet she almost cried. She ate it slowly, savoring every mouthful, while Ser Jorah told her of the tree it had been plucked from, in a garden near the western wall.
"Fruit and water and shade," Dany said, her cheeks sticky with peach juice. "The gods were good to bring us to this place." - Daenerys I, ACOK

Best I can tell, peaches represent living in the moment; having the type of carefree joy that a summer child has.

I kind of feel like Stannis atm, sure to go my grave thinking about Renly's GRRM's peaches.

Oh no, Lady, I did not mean to imply @Seams' instances of peaches were not supposed to be meaningful.  To the contrary, which is why I mentioned my little meaningless "find".   However, I usually am skeptical of a lot much symbolism.  These peaches all seem to align within the disharmony of personalities.  I found Gendry's name on the list of non-peach takers extremely interesting with Stannis and Ned.   What does this say about Gendry?  To me I think it points to Gendry's sense of duty overwhelming all other considerations.  He's not just a dumb self absorbed teenager.  Premature to be sure, but I also wonder if Gendry's presence on this list doesn't point to some great failure or betrayal or disappointment or futility in his efforts somewhere down the road.  Ok, I admit I am being a little sappy here wondering if his sense of duty to Arya specifically will be his downfall.   Wasn't going to admit that, but there you have it!  

Your line about peaches representing living in the moment was poignant.  The words you chose were simply perfect.  

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27 minutes ago, The Green Bard said:

Well, then clearly this is a reference to the great albumby the Allman Brothers Band "Eat a Peach."  I am only half joking.  GRRM is a well known hippie and dead head, and The Allman Brothers are certainly a "jam band," so I wouldn't doubt that he is a fan. 

In addition, from the article I linked above the name from the album came from this quote from their then deceased bandleader, Duane Allman:

Now, Clearly the two-legged variety means this is a sexual inuendo of some type, but I couldn't really tell you what kind... or what body part it may be refernecing.  Tho, peaches are fuzzy and sweet, so?  I'll stop there.  Maybe it is generically referring to someone you find sweet in general.  yeah, that's the ticket.  

Still though, the peace thing also stands out to me.  Make love not war.  When Renly ate the peach he was telling Stannis that they shouldn't fight eachother.  Pycelle rarely counseled the path that might lead to war, and he referred to walking peacefully by the gardens in Oldtown in the passage you quote.  Robert, well he loved to make friends of his enemies.  Gendry, well he definitely needed to eat a peach, given how sweet he is / was on Arya.

So If I had to say what peaches represent, it's peace and love. 

Peace,

TGB

I love this, thanks.   Got Steve Miller's Joker in my head.   I think that line exemplifies the meaning of peach as a body parts.   The line is "I really love your peaches, wanna shake your tree".  I take this as a reference to breasts, but what I think in no way makes it so.   

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23 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

I love this, thanks.   Got Steve Miller's Joker in my head.   I think that line exemplifies the meaning of peach as a body parts.   The line is "I really love your peaches, wanna shake your tree".  I take this as a reference to breasts, but what I think in no way makes it so.   

It's typically been thought of as a reference to female genitalia.  Which kind of makes it ironic that Renly brings it up.  But of course if GRRM is using this double entendre it does make sense in a way.  Renly is showing off the power of Highgarden.  The power which he obtained by marrying Margaery and thus having to eat her, umm, peach.

I think this is a bit of mockery here.  Renly, though gay, still finds the peach/vagina delicious because of the power it brings him, the power of Highgarden.  

Stannis who is probably not much of a peach eater himself takes offense and tries to puzzle out the meaning.  Interestingly enough, Stannis himself may partake in a bit of the peach with Melisandre, creating the Shadow Assassin that kills Renly and brings Highgardens army to him.

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