The Wheel of Time TV Show 4: The Budget Rising [BOOK SPOILERS]

[A True Kaniggit]

5 minutes ago, fionwe1987 said:

Yep, the editor of the series and the guy who finished it are consultants. Not sure how much input they have, but the show also has some well known fans of the books as consultants.

And as far as I'm aware, Judkins is a fan of the books from before the show was anywhere close to a reality, and based on his Twitter, it's pretty darn clear he's read all the books. 

Boooo! 

If I’m not included, nothing counts. And they’re sure to get it wrong. That’s just the way it is. 

-By, A devoted fan  

 

[Corvinus85]

3 hours ago, fionwe1987 said:

Yep, the editor of the series and the guy who finished it are consultants. Not sure how much input they have, but the show also has some well known fans of the books as consultants.

And as far as I'm aware, Judkins is a fan of the books from before the show was anywhere close to a reality, and based on his Twitter, it's pretty darn clear he's read all the books. 

Despite all this, I would be (pleasantly) surprised if the show even has a passable resemblance to the books.

[SpaceChampion]

Some people won't be satisfied unless it looks exactly like a Darrel K Sweet WOT cover, despite how inconsistent he was about the look of the main characters, getting Trollocs wrong, etc.

[fionwe1987]

1 hour ago, Corvinus85 said:

Despite all this, I would be (pleasantly) surprised if the show even has a passable resemblance to the books.

I think we can discuss what a "passable resemblance" to the books means forever. I expect the earliest parts to be most book like, and some big moments to make it through. Lots of other stuff is going to be axed, no doubt. 

[Starkess]

Yeah the age thing with Min is nonsense. I saw a lot of people saying it would look like Rand was with his mom, but I doubt those same people are all up in arms about Nynaeve/Lan (which honestly always bothered me in the books bc he seemed SO much older than her, but the actors are 40/27 which is less weird and I was quite young the first time I read the books). Even if she was 39 (which comes from a website that also lists her birthplace, Kobe, Japan, as being in the US), I wouldn't have a problem with it. Actors and their characters rarely have the same ages and makeup and costuming does a lot than just comparing two headshots.

[fionwe1987]

48 minutes ago, Starkess said:

Yeah the age thing with Min is nonsense. I saw a lot of people saying it would look like Rand was with his mom, but I doubt those same people are all up in arms about Nynaeve/Lan (which honestly always bothered me in the books bc he seemed SO much older than her, but the actors are 40/27 which is less weird and I was quite young the first time I read the books). Even if she was 39 (which comes from a website that also lists her birthplace, Kobe, Japan, as being in the US), I wouldn't have a problem with it. Actors and their characters rarely have the same ages and makeup and costuming does a lot than just comparing two headshots.

Yes. I found something very gendered and troubling with all the criticism of this. Why is an older actress not allowed to play a younger woman who dates a younger man, but the reverse is so common it never merits comment? 

[David Selig]

It's even worse in this case for some people on Reddit, because Min is apparently "#1 crush of the male book fans".

[Werthead]

After delving down a lot of Internet rabbit holes - like checking her boyfriend's YouTube channel - it does appear that the actress is either 29 or 30. Apart from that one dodgy AF celeb data-scraping website (which makes my antivirus alert go off), there is no credible source saying she's that old.

I mean, if she's 39 now, that would have made her 34 playing a 17-year-old in the Bad Education movie and ten years older than all of her castmates, which is absurd even by mid-1990s American high school drama standards.

4 minutes ago, David Selig said:

It's even worse in this case for some people on Reddit, because Min is apparently "#1 crush of the male book fans".

I think some people think of her as a Joss Whedon-class manic pixie girl, which is a bit odd because she isn't. She's generally quite serious with a droll sense of humour and is self-reliant, independent and fully capable of defending herself and others, which is not really that kind of characterisation.

[fionwe1987]

Min is the sole major female characters who doesn't have a storyline of her own, but is instead attached to Rand's. 

This doesn't make her a bad character. For all that she is occupying a place that would be called "Hero's romantic interest", RJ made her a fiercely independent, witty, self-sufficient character. But merely occupying that role seems to make some male readers view her as the best female characters in the series, or the one who they're most fond of.

It's kinda sad how boringly, predictably sexist that kind of view is. 

[fionwe1987]

 

Found this video showcasing some moments of Sophie Okonedo on a show called Flack, which I'd never heard of, on Reddit. Gotta say, she looks like she'd be a great Siuan. 

[Jace, Extat]

2 hours ago, fionwe1987 said:

Min is the sole major female characters who doesn't have a storyline of her own, but is instead attached to Rand's. 

This doesn't make her a bad character. For all that she is occupying a place that would be called "Hero's romantic interest", RJ made her a fiercely independent, witty, self-sufficient character. But merely occupying that role seems to make some male readers view her as the best female characters in the series, or the one who they're most fond of.

It's kinda sad how boringly, predictably sexist that kind of view is. 

I don't remember Min doing a goddamn thing, I was actually a little shocked to learn she's a fan favorite. Like she's the least cool of his hareem. That's her sole characteristic I recall.

[fionwe1987]

8 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

I don't remember Min doing a goddamn thing, I was actually a little shocked to learn she's a fan favorite. Like she's the least cool of his hareem. That's her sole characteristic I recall.

She figures out some important prophesies. She definitely doesn't do much, action wise, and Elayne and Aviendha are way more central to the plot. Obviously, this makes them disliked, because they have lives independent of him.

[Jace, Extat]

9 minutes ago, fionwe1987 said:

She figures out some important prophesies. She definitely doesn't do much, action wise, and Elayne and Aviendha are way more central to the plot. Obviously, this makes them disliked, because they have lives independent of him.

Honestly I'm a little relieved to find out I'm not on an island on this one. I straight-up couldn't imagine why she'd be a fan fave. I don't think any of his wives are particularly cool, but Aviendha and Elayne at least have personalities and shit.

[fionwe1987]

21 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

Honestly I'm a little relieved to find out I'm not on an island on this one. I straight-up couldn't imagine why she'd be a fan fave. I don't think any of his wives are particularly cool, but Aviendha and Elayne at least have personalities and shit.

I don't think we're saying the same thing. Min definitely has a personality. She isn't the wet rag clinging to the male hero to merely validate him. 

She doesn't have political or physical power, but that doesn't make her a badly written or uninteresting character. But Elayne and Aviendha are definitely more dynamic. And the course of their stories makes them stand up to Rand more openly a lot more. Little surprise that to a section of the fandom, she's more palatable. 

[SpaceChampion]

Her impact I suppose is in shaping Rand's character development if anything.  Not every character needs to affect the plot.  Without thinking about this too hard, I'd guess her prophesies set up certain unavoidable truths Rand has to come to accept in order to become who he needs to be.  Generally that's the role of prophesy in any story -- facing a truth you can't squirm out of.  But on her own, she's frequently the only person Rand can trust since she doesn't ask him for much.  That allows her role as prophesy girl of unavoidable truth to be taken seriously by Rand.

Frankly, I'd expect the tv fans will stan her even harder than the book fans.

[Jace, Extat]

I don't hate Min or anything, I don't typically hate fictional characters, I am just surprised that in a series overflowing with cool ladies doing cool stuff that she even registers at all. 

Calling her personality nonexistent was more of a throwaway insult. I think she's the one who's always shouting "he's turning into another denser material" but I wasn't sure enough to post it and I remember not a single prophecy.

[David Selig]

6 hours ago, fionwe1987 said:

She figures out some important prophesies. She definitely doesn't do much, action wise, and Elayne and Aviendha are way more central to the plot. Obviously, this makes them disliked, because they have lives independent of him.

The fandom vitriol for Elayne is hilarious to me. Jordan went out of his way to make her downright implausibly nice and egalitarian given her background - she fell in love with Rand and seriously considered marrying him when as far as she knew he was a country bumpkin from the back end of nowhere, all of her friends are commoners, she has no problems whatsoever spending months on the road in a wagon and sleeping in crowded inns, she is an amazing cook, she even takes care of injured birds, yet most readers only care that mat disliked her early on mostly due to his prejudices against nobles and channellers and consider her a haughty jerk. And many in the fandom seems to think she treated Rand poorly which isn't the case at all. Their romance is definitely badly written, but Rand has very little to complain about.

[Rhom]

5 hours ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

I don't hate Min or anything, I don't typically hate fictional characters, I am just surprised that in a series overflowing with cool ladies doing cool stuff that she even registers at all. 

Calling her personality nonexistent was more of a throwaway insult. I think she's the one who's always shouting "he's turning into another denser material" but I wasn't sure enough to post it and I remember not a single prophecy.

I’m with you.  Min wasn’t a character to hate... because there was nothing there to hate.  I literally remember nothing of her character.  She was short and had a short boyish haircut, I think... maybe...

Other than that, I know zero details.  Where did she come from?  What was her family?  What does she think about pretty much anything?

She gives prophecies?  Okay... we could stick a random old book in a library that Rand stumbles across and get the same.

She was the character that mattered the least and made the absolute least sense in joining the harem.

She could have (and probably should have) been cut from the show with zero consequence from a story standpoint.  

Even Faile has more purpose than her.

[Inkdaub]

The prophecies refer... I think...to her study of Karaethon Cycle and assorted related texts.  Min's viewings, though, were little pictures she saw over people's heads that told their future in some way.  She didn't always understand them but when she did she was never wrong.  This makes Min a bit unique in her relationship with Rand, for a while anyway, in that she is only one of the three who knew what would happen beforehand.  So when she met Rand she knew she would fall in love with him...and share him with two other women.  Avi and Elayne had a more orthodox intro to him.  Relatively.

I like Min quite a lot but it is true she's likely the easiest of the three to cut from the show.  Glad they didn't though.

I like Faile as well.  You people are crazy.

 

[Corvinus85]

I always found it weird that Min, for all her independent streak, accepted her fate and automatically fell in love with Rand. She had her viewing, and suddenly she was doing everything in her power to get there, and by the end of book 2 she is madly in love, holding Rand's unconscious body after his fight with Ishamael, despite spending all of 5 minutes with him up until that point. 

I much prefer Aviendha's journey.