Gertrude Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 I'm looking forward to seeing what changes they make. I've always enjoyed the bones of the story, but haven't always enjoyed the execution. Give me the spirit of the story and I won't quibble about the details. I mean, I probably will, but I'm going in with the mindset of 'Please, for the love of god, change some things!' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaston de Foix Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 17 hours ago, Gaston de Foix said: I've read only the last three books so in the same boat. My brother-in-law is a huge WoT fan and I'd gotten a copy of the Gathering Storm signed by BS. I was on a long-haul flight and I had the book with me, so I read it. It made sense to go forward not back. So much of the WoT world/characters were already familiar through nerdom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plessiez Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 16 hours ago, Gertrude said: I'm going in with the mindset of 'Please, for the love of god, change some things!' This is close to my position, I think. I've realised recently that I have a surprising amount of nostalgia for the books -- I read and reread them a lot when I was younger, and lurking (and very occasionally posting) on rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan in the mid-to-late 1990s was one of my earliest experiences of the internet -- but I really think that this is a series that would benefit from a less than faithful adaption. There's a great deal of stuff than I'd cut or change from the books if I was adapting it, though I expect almost all of that to make it in in at least some form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 I've slowly re-read the books over the past year and a half, but haven't brought myself to start on A Memory of Light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said: I've slowly re-read the books over the past year and a half, but haven't brought myself to start on A Memory of Light. I am not a Sanderson hater, I think he had a tough job and did his best. But AMoL was very disappointing and my impression of it has only worsened with time passing. Most of what I can remember now is a jumble of interchangeable battles and a few character deaths that didn't resonate like they should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poobah Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 41 minutes ago, Maithanet said: I am not a Sanderson hater, I think he had a tough job and did his best. But AMoL was very disappointing and my impression of it has only worsened with time passing. Most of what I can remember now is a jumble of interchangeable battles and a few character deaths that didn't resonate like they should. I mostly quite liked AMoL, out of the Sanderson WoT books it was Towers of Midnight that didn't really land well for it - it mostly felt like all the leftovers and cleanup after the quite focused Gathering Storm - A Memory of Light to me was a sufficiently epic conclusion that actually made me feel like a world-ending threat was being faced and while I agree it was a bit of a messy grinder in places and there were things I think weren't great and some things left dangling I'd like to have seen addressed I think it was a good book. I'm not sure why Demandred had to have a tournament arc so that we can finally rank every Blademaster by skill, or why Moiraine and Siuan never got to chat (or why Moiraine was so generally absent, really the lack of Moiraine is AMoL's biggest failing in my view), but I felt that the moments that hit really hit and I was glad that the entire fate of the world wasn't decided in one day after a single medium sized battle somewhere like it often seems to be in lesser fantasies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 9 minutes ago, Poobah said: A Memory of Light to me was a sufficiently epic conclusion that actually made me feel like a world-ending threat was being faced It is very hard to really nail the finish of a fantasy series. In many respects, the better the author is at buildup, the more impossible the task of delivering a conclusion that doesn't feel underwhelming. But I simply must disagree that AMoL delivered the goods. So many moments in AMoL had tons of buildup and then didn't land. Fain reappears and then dies in like two pages without accomplishing anything. Rhuarc dies offscreen with barely even a thought. Logain's arc, Moiraine's arc, Min's arc, they all just...kinda fizzled. Honestly I can't even describe a lot of the book because it didn't make any impression on me and I've already forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martell Spy Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 4 hours ago, Corvinus85 said: I've slowly re-read the books over the past year and a half, but haven't brought myself to start on A Memory of Light. I'm finally reading it now. I had a new copy several years and never read it. And then I read it and stopped at page 200. Now I'm forcing myself to finish and have gotten to page 600. I want to see what happens finally. I'd much rather be doing a reread of books 5 to 7 or so though. There were way too many scenes of "we need to get these troops and people together." I think I'm past that now though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted December 30, 2020 Author Share Posted December 30, 2020 3 hours ago, Maithanet said: It is very hard to really nail the finish of a fantasy series. In many respects, the better the author is at buildup, the more impossible the task of delivering a conclusion that doesn't feel underwhelming. But I simply must disagree that AMoL delivered the goods. So many moments in AMoL had tons of buildup and then didn't land. Fain reappears and then dies in like two pages without accomplishing anything. Rhuarc dies offscreen with barely even a thought. Logain's arc, Moiraine's arc, Min's arc, they all just...kinda fizzled. Honestly I can't even describe a lot of the book because it didn't make any impression on me and I've already forgotten. A lot of these I think are Jordan's problems which Sanderson could not fix very easily. He didn't give Fain enough to do to make him a series-long threat, so I think it'll make way more sense in the show to have Perrin kill him in the Two Rivers or, at the latest, have Rand kill him in Haddon Mirk in the show. I also think that Jordan didn't have much planned with Moiraine when she came back either, so Sanderson felt he couldn't give her more stuff to do without basically descending into fanfiction. I think what Sanderson did very well is refocus the series on the key story (Rand vs. the Dark One) which Jordan had allowed to diffuse over many prior books and then executed the ending to that storyline reasonably well given the limitations of the situation. If he'd done the inverse - focused on giving some characters a good wrap-up whilst fumbling the big picture - I think the reception would have gone generally much worse. It would have been better to have done both, but that could have comfortably taken another 5 books to do rather than 3, which I think is overwhelmingly likely what would have happened had Jordan still been with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 9 minutes ago, Werthead said: A lot of these I think are Jordan's problems which Sanderson could not fix very easily. He didn't give Fain enough to do to make him a series-long threat, so I think it'll make way more sense in the show to have Perrin kill him in the Two Rivers or, at the latest, have Rand kill him in Haddon Mirk in the show. I also think that Jordan didn't have much planned with Moiraine when she came back either, so Sanderson felt he couldn't give her more stuff to do without basically descending into fanfiction. I think what Sanderson did very well is refocus the series on the key story (Rand vs. the Dark One) which Jordan had allowed to diffuse over many prior books and then executed the ending to that storyline reasonably well given the limitations of the situation. If he'd done the inverse - focused on giving some characters a good wrap-up whilst fumbling the big picture - I think the reception would have gone generally much worse. It would have been better to have done both, but that could have comfortably taken another 5 books to do rather than 3, which I think is overwhelmingly likely what would have happened had Jordan still been with us. I think that is a fair, if charitable, reading of AMoL. Like I said, I'm not a Sanderson hater, a lot of the problems with the final three books can be laid at Jordan's feet. But I do remember that while I was reading it and while reading through AMoL threads on this forum after finishing it, that there were just a lot of cases/characters where there was 13 books of buildup and then just a couple pages of wrapup. Felt like a real missed opportunity. Maybe I would have been more happy with AMoL if I felt like he'd really nailed the execution of Rand's storyline. But to me, that was only so-so, and couldn't cover up the book's other weaknesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fionwe1987 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 Look the problems may have started with RJ, but as much as he could stretch storylines, he could also wrap them up well and economically. I think Brandon's inexperience shows most with the battle scenes. He did the best he could with help, but he has none of RJ's flair for writing battles. There's no way RJ writes multiple repetitive Trolloc band vs yet another character battles. Even in the most mind numbingly slow moments of the series, RJ didn't write draggy battles. The problem I think is that the Last Battle had to be epic. But the way Brandon achieved that made no sense. Not his fault that RJ didn't leave much notes about that (probably because it's writing that he was most comfortable with), but it's also bizarre that no one in Team Jordan caught that about 5000 odd channelers for the Light just disappeared, and the battle strategy just generally doesn't make sense given the realities of channeling. So you're left with a lot of battles with no channelers that I just don't see RJ writing, and others with such overwhelming channeler advantage that they're somewhat boring. And I don't see RJ not exploring all the character dynamics that he set up. He clearly meant for Egwene to meet Cadsuane. He clearly meant for Siuan and Moiraine to meet again. We don't need entire chapters to explore these kinds of meetings, because both characters are super familiar to us, but having them not even happen in the background is utterly nuts. All that said, I agree aMoL was a decent enough end to the series, given the circumstances. In a series with many flawed books, aMoL isn't the worst offender, but given that it's the end, I'd wish it was in the Shadow Rising/Fires of Heaven/Gathering Storm category rather than what we got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gertrude Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 5 hours ago, Werthead said: I also think that Jordan didn't have much planned with Moiraine when she came back either, so Sanderson felt he couldn't give her more stuff to do without basically descending into fanfiction. Honestly, I would be fine with them not rescuing Moiraine. I can't recall her having much impact on the end of the story that couldn't be changed slightly. I could be wrong, but mainly she was needed as the 3rd to handle Calandor, right? Maybe Calandor only has to have one other woman as a buffer rather than two. Maybe Avi is his second (because I don't remember what she does during the end and if it's actually impactful or if it's just feel good fluff). What is Elayne doing for that matter - probably something more directly important as Queen, but again, I don't remember) All I'm saying is there's lots of room to rearrange the bits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 The change the show should make: have Taim be Demandred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slurktan Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 9 hours ago, Maithanet said: It is very hard to really nail the finish of a fantasy series. In many respects, the better the author is at buildup, the more impossible the task of delivering a conclusion that doesn't feel underwhelming. But I simply must disagree that AMoL delivered the goods. So many moments in AMoL had tons of buildup and then didn't land. Fain reappears and then dies in like two pages without accomplishing anything. Rhuarc dies offscreen with barely even a thought. Logain's arc, Moiraine's arc, Min's arc, they all just...kinda fizzled. Honestly I can't even describe a lot of the book because it didn't make any impression on me and I've already forgotten. Well for Fain there was zero buildup from like book 7 on. So theres nothing really you can do except kill him off. I actually quite like that Mat killed him cause Fain can't actually hurt Mat with his powers. As for Rhuarc, again offscreen since book 7, so no real buildup to pay off for. Also didn't Aviendha straight kill him in her PoV? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fionwe1987 Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 3 hours ago, Gertrude said: Honestly, I would be fine with them not rescuing Moiraine. I can't recall her having much impact on the end of the story that couldn't be changed slightly. I could be wrong, but mainly she was needed as the 3rd to handle Calandor, right? Maybe Calandor only has to have one other woman as a buffer rather than two. Maybe Avi is his second (because I don't remember what she does during the end and if it's actually impactful or if it's just feel good fluff). What is Elayne doing for that matter - probably something more directly important as Queen, but again, I don't remember) All I'm saying is there's lots of room to rearrange the bits. Well, RJs notes say that her main reason to be back is to play peacemaker between Egwene and Rand. But that conflict was handled so shoddily in Towers of Midnight that Moiraine resolving it by just walking in was easy to miss. It certainly didn't come across as momentous, and failed to live up to all the foreshadowing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gertrude Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 If she had done that and had to work for it, I'd be on board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fionwe1987 Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 6 hours ago, Gertrude said: If she had done that and had to work for it, I'd be on board. Yep. I think the philosophical conflicts at the heart of the disagreement between Rand and Egwene were far more interesting than a lot of the battle stuff we got. And I don't think Moiraine walking in would resolve them. Rather, I'd like to have seen her use her knowledge of them both to make them come to an accomodation. And that would take time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fionwe1987 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 They have a new teaser of concept art from the show to celebrate the 30th anniversary of the release of Eye of the World. Pretty neat. If Shadar Logoth is that well designed, given the little time we spend there, I'm very encouraged. Emond's Field and the Tinker caravan look great as well. Not sure what that lake in the depression is supposed to be. It doesn't immediately ring any bells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceChampion Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 1 hour ago, SpaceChampion said: "Alright, lets make a deal..." Been a while since I've read that book, but don't remember a deal being part of it. Wonder how they are going to change that up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.