The Wheel of Time TV Show 4: The Budget Rising [BOOK SPOILERS]

[Corvinus85]

@A True Kaniggit Was this before the Seanchan raid on Tar Valon? Once the Seanchan gain Travelling, geographical locations matter far less.

4 hours ago, Werthead said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Seanchan agents being seen in Tear, and the suggestion that the Seanchan might bypass Illian to take Tear by sea and then take Illian afterwards.

The Stone is almost impossible to take. The city of Tear itself is much easier to take (Guaire Amalasan took the city, he just wasn't able to seize the Stone itself). Illian doesn't have walls, but the swampy surrounds make attacking it even harder.

Illian wouldn't stand a chance because of the Seanchan aerial ability. The Stone is a closed enough fortress that even with raken and to'raken the Seanchan would not be able to take it.  Navigating Tear's delta is also challenging for any non-locals, so pre-Travelling, the Seanchan would have had to march across land to Tear.

[A True Kaniggit]

1 hour ago, Corvinus85 said:

@A True Kaniggit Was this before the Seanchan raid on Tar Valon? Once the Seanchan gain Travelling, geographical locations matter far less.

I believe before. The raid on Tar Valon and the Seanchan acquiring traveling is never mentioned by Rand al Thor before he says this.  
 

Though I can’t be 100% sure. The timeline between all the POVs is still off at the end of The Gathering Storm. 
 

And who knows what he has learned off page? 

[Werthead]

1 hour ago, Corvinus85 said:

@A True Kaniggit Was this before the Seanchan raid on Tar Valon? Once the Seanchan gain Travelling, geographical locations matter far less.

Illian wouldn't stand a chance because of the Seanchan aerial ability. The Stone is a closed enough fortress that even with raken and to'raken the Seanchan would not be able to take it.  Navigating Tear's delta is also challenging for any non-locals, so pre-Travelling, the Seanchan would have had to march across land to Tear.

I think it's made clear that any half-decent pilot can navigate the Fingers of the Dragon pretty easily and Tear's boasting about it as a defensive measure is baseless, and the Sea Folk make a point of telling the Tairen pilots to sit down and STFU whilst they just do the work themselves. With aerial reconnaissance, the One Power to hurl any obstacles out the way and maybe even captured Sea Folk and/or Windfinder to guide them, the Seanchan would be able to attack Tear fairly straightforwardly.

[A True Kaniggit]

3 hours ago, Werthead said:

I think it's made clear that any half-decent pilot can navigate the Fingers of the Dragon pretty easily and Tear's boasting about it as a defensive measure is baseless, and the Sea Folk make a point of telling the Tairen pilots to sit down and STFU whilst they just do the work themselves. With aerial reconnaissance, the One Power to hurl any obstacles out the way and maybe even captured Sea Folk and/or Windfinder to guide them, the Seanchan would be able to attack Tear fairly straightforwardly.

But they still wouldn't do it before taking Illian.

Tarabon, Amadicia, Altara. They were going from west to east.

A naval invasion of Tear would just be reckless. All it would take is a few dozen Asha’man  on the banks of the fingers to completely wreck any fleet sailing through. 

[Slurktan]

18 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

@A True Kaniggit Was this before the Seanchan raid on Tar Valon? Once the Seanchan gain Travelling, geographical locations matter far less.

Illian wouldn't stand a chance because of the Seanchan aerial ability. The Stone is a closed enough fortress that even with raken and to'raken the Seanchan would not be able to take it.  Navigating Tear's delta is also challenging for any non-locals, so pre-Travelling, the Seanchan would have had to march across land to Tear.

What?  Fireworks blew a hole in the Stone.  Fireworks. You think the one power wouldn't rip that shit up in a second?  I'd see the Seanchan going after Tear first before Illian because it would be significantly easier to take it the way the Seanchan like to take things.  Illianers would run and hide in the marshes.  Tairens would flock to the Stone and get annihilated in it, think Harrenhal.  And that's without Travelling.  With Travelling Tear makes even more sense to go there first as you just take the Stone intact and have a impregnable (to non One Power enemies) base to go forward from.

13 hours ago, A True Kaniggit said:

But they still wouldn't do it before taking Illian.

Tarabon, Amadicia, Altara. They were going from west to east.

A naval invasion of Tear would just be reckless. All it would take is a few dozen Asha’man  on the banks of the fingers to completely wreck any fleet sailing through. 

Well to be fair any invasion is reckless when the one power is involved. They had such an easy time taking the rest because they didn't have to worry about it as the Aes Sedai can't fight.  Asha'man would be just as effective guarding Illian as they would Tear and they know Asha'man already are guarding Illian.  So they tried going from east to west and then got stopped already, perhaps they try a different tact, Strike where you aren't expected etc. 

[Poobah]

3 hours ago, Slurktan said:

What?  Fireworks blew a hole in the Stone.  Fireworks. You think the one power wouldn't rip that shit up in a second? 

While I generally agree that the Seanchan could take Tear if they wanted without too much difficulty if there wasn't a large defending army of Rand's forces/Asha'man I would note that the stone has held against false dragons and that it was constructed with the power so I'd guess it's somehow reinforced against the one power in the same way the walls of Tar Valon are (it's noted when Elaida has sisters trying to take them apart to remove the solid harbour chain that it's extremely slow and difficult because of how they were originally made).

[Corvinus85]

Another mistake by Sanderson - in AMoL, he gave the Legion of the Dragon heavy cavalry. The Legion is established to be entirely infantry in the Jordan written books, mostly crossbowmen with a smaller percentage of shield-bearers. A nitpick, I know, but they pile up.

 

[fionwe1987]

3 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

Another mistake by Sanderson - in AMoL, he gave the Legion of the Dragon heavy cavalry. The Legion is established to be entirely infantry in the Jordan written books, mostly crossbowmen with a smaller percentage of shield-bearers. A nitpick, I know, but they pile up.

 

They were set up by Bashere, so even if they decided to add cavalry, they'd have added Saldean-style light cavalry before going for Shienaran heavy cavalry style, which, if memory serves, is how Brandon depicts them.

Its the Tower, through the Rebel army Gareth Bryne built, that should have a big heavy cavalry division. They did show this, but not as much as I'd imagined they would.

[fionwe1987]

Looks like a production completely divorced from the Amazon show. And given that the producers include the fantastic team that got us Winter Dragon, I hope this ends up nowhere.

Prequel movie: Age of Legends

[Ran]

3 minutes ago, fionwe1987 said:

Looks like a production completely divorced from the Amazon show. And given that the producers include the fantastic team that got us Winter Dragon, I hope this ends up nowhere.

Prequel movie: Age of Legends

It almost certainly will not go anywhere. What a mess the rights must be in that the compromise with Selvege and Mondragon of "iwot" (formerly Red Eagle Entertainment?) was that they retained film rights...

 

[Myrddin]

Every time I see the last name "Mondragon" I can't decide if it's a coincidence or some rabid fan who changed his last name to be like Lan's but failed to spell it right on the application.   

[Maltaran]

17 minutes ago, Myrddin said:

Every time I see the last name "Mondragon" I can't decide if it's a coincidence or some rabid fan who changed his last name to be like Lan's but failed to spell it right on the application.   

It’s a genuine Basque name, so probably coincidence 

[Werthead]

Sony have the screen rights, so I'm assuming they are involved, but Amazon are not. Amazon's deal, I believe, was a sub-licence of the TV rights.

The rights history is pretty involved.

[Corvinus85]

56 minutes ago, fionwe1987 said:

Looks like a production completely divorced from the Amazon show. And given that the producers include the fantastic team that got us Winter Dragon, I hope this ends up nowhere.

Prequel movie: Age of Legends

I agree. Also, it looks to be poorly named, as it appears to be about the Breaking and the end of the AoL. 

[Werthead]

Quote

Spanning 14 volumes, The Wheel of Time has sold more than 90 million copies internationally, making it the biggest-selling fantasy series since The Lord of the Rings (which, coincidentally, Amazon is also adapting for TV).

Lol, no. I think they might have picked up one of my statements in a Google search from how that was worded, but I said epic fantasy series. JK Rowling will want a word.

[Corvinus85]

Back to A Memory of Light re-read [SPOILERS]:

I hate the way Siuan is killed off. Not because of the circumstances, as it's a call back to her conversation with Mat from book 3, about being a hero and her uncle who died saving people from a burning building, and Min's viewing is fulfilled, but because we're missing the detail on what exactly kills her. I think it was the fire, but I'm not sure. In a book with so many unnecessary, eye-rolling details, for a character who's been in the series from book 2 and has had POV moments, we get very little detail about her death. That scene should have been written from her POV, not Min's. 

 

[Which Tyler]

1 hour ago, Werthead said:

Lol, no. I think they might have picked up one of my statements in a Google search from how that was worded, but I said epic fantasy series. JK Rowling will want a word.

Nah, didn't JKR always contend that she wasn't writing "Fantasy"

[fionwe1987]

5 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

Back to A Memory of Light re-read [SPOILERS]:

I hate the way Siuan is killed off. Not because of the circumstances, as it's a call back to her conversation with Mat from book 3, about being a hero and her uncle who died saving people from a burning building, and Min's viewing is fulfilled, but because we're missing the detail on what exactly kills her. I think it was the fire, but I'm not sure. In a book with so many unnecessary, eye-rolling details, for a character who's been in the series from book 2 and has had POV moments, we get very little detail about her death. That scene should have been written from her POV, not Min's. 

 

I'm more pissed that we didn't get to see a Moraine Siuan reunion. That was just unacceptable.

[A True Kaniggit]

I just hope the show can make the Last Battle feel truly apocalyptic. 
 

The “Armageddon” of the books was a let down.

[Werthead]

So my assumption on this rights thing was that Red Eagle had the overall screen rights, sub-licensed the TV rights for the books alone to Sony/Amazon and retained other screen rights to the wider franchise. Thus, they could make a film series about the Age of Legends.

My go-to Hollywood contact au fait with these things came back and said yes, that's plausible, but usually there's a "no competition" clause as standard in these contracts which are included by rote, and certainly you'd assume Sony would have that clause (and if not them, Amazon certainly would). That would state that Red Eagle/Radar could not make a competing project in the same universe that could cause confusion for x number of years after the TV show debuts (maybe five, seven or ten years). If the contract is the other way around (i.e. you're making a new project now in a pre-existing cinematic universe) that clause is more usually absent, hence how Warner Brothers are making a Lord of the Rings animated movie at the same time Amazon are making the TV show. Since WB made the LotR movies originally, they have the first right to make new projects even after Amazon licensed the TV rights from them.

On that basis, several possibilities emerge:

1. Radar/Red Eagle envisage this project taking a long time to get off the ground and are laying pipe for it now ahead of the TV show launching and hopefully being a big hit.
2. Radar/Red Eagle envisage Sony/Amazon being the distributors for this project so there is no competition. However, in that case you'd assume Sony or Amazon's name would have been mentioned in the press release.
3. Radar/Red Eagle leveraged there being no such clause in the contract, which would be odd.
4. Radar/Red Eagle have gone off the deep end and are doing something dubious. Which I would not rule out, but you would assume that after their last attempt to do something like this ended up in court they wouldn't be eager to risk the same thing when they can just sit back and get a payday from the TV show (or enjoy the one they got back in 2017 when the rights sale went through). Also, messing around with the estate of a deceased author is one thing, messing around with Amazon and their formidable legal department (whose Christmas dinner budget could probably buy your entire company twice over) is, er, ill-advised.