Unlucky numbers and Valyrian steel hero-wielders

Curled Finger · September 11, 2020

3 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

Not soon, as it turned out. Nearly forgot. Here's the long delayed compilation

SANDOQ'S BLADE, LONGCLAW, OATHKEEPER, BLACKFYRE, TRUTH

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I'll put the swords with small theories first.

Sandoq the Shadow's great curved VS blade. Probably lost.

Longclaw. New Ice and Longclaw were bought together from Valyria by some Stark 5 centuries ago. May have given the latter to his loyal bannermen from Bear Island. Now with Jon.

Oathkeeper with Brienne obviously. Perfect parallel to Gallahad from Arthurian myths as CF said.

Blackfyre with fAegon. Illyrio gave it hidden in the chest of candied ginger. Got from Varys and Serra who are secret Blackfyre siblings. Or were until her reported death.

Truth for Jorah Mormon. Dany will find it in Lys enroute to Westeros.

VIGILANCE, CAGGO'S ARAKH, LF'S ValSteel DAGGER

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On 7/18/2020 at 5:51 PM, TheLastWolf said:

Truth for Jorah Mormon. Dany will find it in Lys enroute to Westeros.

And I forgot to mention the possibility of Edric storm claiming it, seeing that he is in Lys. Improbable, I'd say. But not Dany meeting him. Either he joins her cause...or dies. Most likely the latter. Continuing the sword theories.... Here we go.

Vigilance : The Hightowers along with the Faith of the Seven and Citadel's greysheep have always been against the Targaryens in some way or the other. We have theories about the masters plotting the spark of Robert's Rebellion. Just ask Barbrey Dustin. What I mean is that Bloodraven deprived the sword from them, a potential enemy of the Dragons. Timeliness do not match, I know, but it's possible that the Hightower sword was hidden in the Citadel before Bloodraven found and took it. It may now be at the bottom of the Red Fork along with Butterwell's dragon egg, in the watery grave of the father of Hoster Tully. If the Blackfish has not found them already, I believe Gendry will. See my thread about the Blackfish's motives and BwB's plans for details.

Littlefinger's Valyrian Steel dagger with the dragon bone hilt will remain with him until..... Tyrion has his revenge for the Bran assassination attempt episode and him being framed. It may or may not affect LF's plots but I don't think that it will see the Battle against Others. Maybe or may not.

Caggo's arakh will most probably be taken by Rodrik Stark the Wandering Wolf a. K. a The Tattered Prince after he dies somehow, somewhere. Or maybe given to Pretty Meris/Wenda the white fawn/Meris Cafferen who is Brienne's mom. This will lead to its presence at the final battle, with Stark link, it's inevitable.

RED RAIN & NIGHTFALL

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RED RAIN AND NIGHTFALL :

In the thread about Pod Payne's identity, @SeanF connected the rhyming of Payne to Reyne/Dayne after I suggested Podrick rhyming with Rodrik ( Greyjoy and Stark are those candidates)

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Greyjoy:

Father may be Rodrik Greyjoy, Balon’s eldest son who was slain by Jason Mallister at the Storming of Seagard during Greyjoy’s rebellion.

Pod’s supposed father, a lesser Payne was also killed during the rebellion in 289 A.C., the same year Rodrik died.

Pod was born somewhere around late 287 A.C. I think that his mother was one of the sisters of Ser Harras Harlaw, Rodrik the Reader’s heir and Rodrik Greyjoy’s best mate.

The names Podrick and Rodrik are also very similar.

Westerlands are close to the Iron Islands, so Pod could have been sent to the widow of his supposed ‘Payne’ father because?...Harras’s sister didn’t want to raise a bastard and the widow of Pod’s supposed father could have lost her child and raised Pod as her own…before running away with Pod’s supposed father’s cousin (I think she was really murdered by Euron Greyjoy to silence the truth, as Pod would then be heir to the Iron

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In the end if the truth is revealed, I think Pod could maybe become recognized by the Harlaws (maybe even heir if Harras dies? Then he’d get the Valyrian steel sword, Nightfall.

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It's fun to spin out these possibilities. I like your "sounds like Rodrick" lines of thinking - you never know where these rhymes might lead.

Some points I think we have to consider when deciphering Pod:

1) Payne sounds like Dayne and Reyne. Could there be parallels or symbolism in either of those Houses to explain House Payne?

What if Pod is the last descendant of House Reyne, spared like Dontos Hollard, but unintentionally? We know that Red Rain was the sword of Reyne now with the Drumms.

It could end up with him in a queer twist of fate. He may or may not know about his ancestry in the end, but I have a gut feeling about him ending up as one of the heros against Others in the Final Battle.

Drumms to Asha to Podrick is how I see it. We can't expect the Drumms to go to the Wall for fulfilling their duty to the crown and people by saving the realm from a supernatural invasive species.

Podrick being a Dayne is absurd though. Appearance does not match for one.

But if Pod is a son of Rodrik Greyjoy and one of Ser Harras Harlaw's sisters, then it explains many things. And Pod will get Nightfall. See above quotes.

But I may be entirely wrong and Euron may take Nightfall after killing Harras/after Harras dies. It would match the Crows eye's VS plated armor, as someone said. Then may be Asha would kill him after knowing the truth about all his evils and claim the sword at Hardhome or some other place where battle will occur against the Others, if she isn't dead by then.

Sooooo many possibilities. Any more.

HEARTSBANE

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VALYRIAN STEEL BLADE #11

HEARTSBANE;

Randyll Tarly is one of those men who believe that the Nights' Watch to be obsolete, filth-ridden and of no use anymore. So he's not going to go to fight the Others any time soon. Or snarks and grumpkins as he'd say.

But I think he'll be slain in the upcoming Battle of Storm's End by either Ser Franklyn Flowers or fAegon in a freak chance of luck and his blade will be taken by the latter and given to the former, since fAegon has his own Blackfyre.

Then Flowers will be sent as a part of the envoy to treat with the Hightowers in Oldtown and win them to their cause. Dickon Tarly will avenge his father rashly and die in the process, or so I expect.

Then Samwell Tarly will find himself there and take his father's sword from the dying/dead Flowers. Why? Sam may even hear that his father had come to know of his deeds and was not ashamed of him anymore (proud is too big a word considering the person being discussed)

But all this will happen (if it does) only after many events, maybe even only in ADOS.

My reasons for thinking that Sam would and should end up withe sword are;

It would be a perfect parallel to Neville Longbottom slaying Nagini with the sword of Godric Gryffindor if Sam (not a warrior like Neville also wasn't) destroys something/somebody crucial to the power of the Others.(like Nagini was a Horcrux of Voldemort, something similar to it)

Moreover Sam would be using the sword that came indirectly from JonCon (Connington - Griffin) which is a great parallel to Godric GRYFFINdor's sword.

DARK SISTER, CELTIGAR AXE

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VALYRIAN STEEL BLADES #12 & #13

DARK SISTER:

Not with Bloodraven in his cave or in the crypts of Winterfell (in Lyanna's tomb, most probably Rhaegar's Harp or Howland Reed's Knight of the Laughing tree shield or Mance Rayder's lu

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te. It will prove Jon's parentage among other proofs)

But its with Shieara Seastar/Quaithe from Asshai  who is Nimue (Bloodraven is her Merlin) who

tied BR to the Weirwood root like the same which happened to Merlin by Nimue.....And took DS away with her for Dany.

But many will wield DS before/after it reaches Dany.

ARYA-MEERA-BRANDOR are candidates.

CELTIGARS' AXE

The wealth of Claw Isle as described by Axell Florent (I can't call that oaf a ser) to Davos, Meli and Stannis did not interest me except for three of its contents.

The ancestral Valyrian Steel axe of Celtigars, aN old Valyrian stock house has NO name, why?

Why is it mentioned very few times?

I don't see any reason why GRRM would put the axe in the story if it will not see action at all.

I've no theories to who will wield it. VICTARION and AURANE WATERS are possible. VIC always wanted a VS blade and he fights with a battle axe too.

Or maybe the Celtigars who may join Dany's or fAegon's cause may fight with it.

LADY FORLORN

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VALYRIAN STEEL BLADE #14;

LADY FORLORN:

Lyn Corbray will chase Ser Shadrich of the Shady Glen a.k.a The Mad Mouse who'll kidnap/rescue Alaynsa and  escape to the mountains.

TMM will kill Lyn and will be revealed to be Howland Reed. Ser Morgath will be revealed to be the Elder brother of Quiet Isle (really the missing son of Darry). Ser Byron will be revealed to be the Hound, Sandor Clegane. see this link, https://sweeticeandfiresunray.com/2017/07/13/their-gallantry-is-yet-to-be-demonstrated-shadrich-morgarth-and-byron/

The mountain clans with Timett and Shagga will take in the gang when they learn that Alayne is actually Sansa/Imp's wife.

Maybe even the Burned men (descended from Painted Dogs who worshiped Sheepstealer and Nettles), led by Timett son of the same will lead Sansa to the lair/cave where she may find a dragon egg or two, hoping so.

LADY FORLORN will be taken by one of the 3, or Sansa will keep it to win the Corbrays to her cause, when she...no...if she calls the banners of the Vale to her cause after marrying Sweetrobin, manipulating him and executing LF for Lysa and Harry the Heir's deaths. Yes, HtH is gonna die in the Tourney for/of the Brotherhood of Winged Knights, just like Ser Hugh, the squire of Jon Arryn was finished of by LF to hide his involvement in the murder of Jon from Ned who was investigating. Why HtH is gonna die is still unclear (maybe to have a more easily manipulatable husband in Sweetrobin, change of plans), but there are a lot of hints in the TWOW sample Alayne chapter.

Or maybe Sansa would keep it to give it to a more rich and powerful house without a VS blade and win them to her cause. Maybe her future husband, whoever it is going to be.

fAegon, but he already has Blackfyre.

Tyrion is still her husband, but that is not going to last anyway, or so I expect, but not hope.

Pod Payne who will be revealed to really be a STARK/TARG/B.FYRE/HARLAW/GREYJOY/DAYNE/REYNE....

EVERYONE and ANYONE. Any ambitious lord or knight or even sellsword (Bronn?) would want her for the claim to the North. Sansa knows enough of how to play the Game of thrones, so she'll choose the most powerful suitor, I expect. Then LADY FORLORN is for him then, not the poor Corbrays (who are already poor)

Maybe if Howland Reed/MadMouse, Darry/Elder Brother/Morgath and Byron/Hound join the BwB instead of getting Sansa the Vale, then the sword will go to Blackfish (who has joined them) or Lem Lemoncloak WHO IS Richard Lonmouth.

All these are not permanent and the wielders/owners are only temporary. Finally it will return to Corbrays or not.

Since all this is only speculation, it is most likely that Lyn Corbray will have it with him like @The Green Bard said, during the final Battle against Others, which he'll fight for glory. Before that he may serve the cause he likes, not necessarily the one which House Corbray endorses. ALL THIS IN THE EVENT THAT MY SPECULATIONS ARE FALSE.

Since L-Y-N means LAKE in OLD WELSH, I believe Lyn will die near LONG LAKE near the WALL

@Curled Finger was not so pleased with my first post which had no detailed explanations such as my last few, so hope you're satisfied a bit.

IN ANY CASE, LADY FORLORN IS DESTINED FOR THE FINAL BATTLE.

LAMENTATION AND WIDOWS WAIL

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VALYRIAN STEEL SWORDS  #15 & #16;

LAMENTATION & WIDOW’S WAIL:

·         See ladygwynsomething’s detailed article. I’ve posted excerpts in the first post of this topic. Will take time to go over it again, so long story short,….

·         Lamentation was most likely smuggled out of King’s Landing in the tapestries which LF gifts to Nestor Royce….ALONG with Widow’s WaIl.

·         How the Royce sword which was lost during the Storming of the Dragonpit came to LF’s possession is also explained in the article. I don’t want it to be said that I post ‘HUGE’ walls of text (Ya, you only @kissdbyfire
) supporting my points. Just see the damn link.

·         Widow’s Wail…I’ll get to it after I’m finished with Lamentation.

·         Now possible wielders of Lam

1.       Albar Royce (Nestor’s son) either in Sansa’s service/fAegon’s/Dany’s or whoever his house will support.

2.       Myranda Royce’s future 2^nd husband. Now that the minor Royces have Lam, they have higher value in marriage and alliances for themselves and the cause they’d support. Myranda is as ambitious as her father and even shrewder (a lot actually). So there are a lot of possibilities down that lane.

3.       Bronze Yohn Royce may himself claim it when it’s revealed, citing the seniority of his branch of the house as a stronger claim to it.

4.       Bronn. If he was always LF’s/Varys’s agent, it is possible.

Anyway, the sword WILL be at the Final Battle because all of my proposed possibilities have an interest in the North, be it for duty, ambition, glory or greed. I know that @Curled Finger still believes it to be destroyed; we’ll know when the series ends…for sure this time.

·         Widow’s Wail has 3 possible ways it could have travelled after Joffrey’s death.

1.       Could have been smuggled out of KL ALONG with Lam. LF may plan to win the lesser Lannisters of Lannisport to his cause when war begins (or should it be resumes?). So possible wielders there are DAMON (if he’s not dead yet), DAMION, LUCION or LANNA’S future HUSBAND. Oh! Sorry, forgot to mention that all are lesser Lannisters. See their family tree, it may help.

2.       Could have been the sword given by TOMMEN to LORAS TYRELL. Cersei saw, but she were already going mad and wouldn’t have known its value is she was sane either. Tommen was and is still just a kid who’d have given the sword lying around somewhere as a gift to his role model, ignorant of its true value like his mother. There was a thread recently that said the info about Loras dying on Dragonstone was made up as it is a part of the Grand Tyrell Conspiracy. I’m inclined to believe it true and it supports my theory too. Anyway, WIDOW’S WAIL would suit LORAS just fine. I can already see him slaying Others with it.

3.       The last possibility is that it NEVER left the Red Keep. Jaime cannot use it, considering his own predicament. Possible wielders; Tallad the Tall? Horror or Slobber? Addam Marbrand? ‘Strongboar’ Crakehall?

ORPHAN MAKER

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VALYRIAN STEEL BLADE #17

ORPHAN MAKER;

Either with,

1.       One of the Peakes of the Golden Company

2.       Or forgotten somewhere in the White Tower of the Kingsguard after the Peake Uprising was contained.

3.       Hidden at Starpike/Dustonbury/WHhitegrove.

4.       Retrieved by Bold Jon Roxton’s descendants? Someone whose identity we suspect of not being true?

5.       The current Lord Peake (Titus) married a certain Margot Lannister. Could she have been married to a house which had fallen so low only in the hopes of somehow getting a Valyrian steel sword for the lions of Casterly Rock? Tywin’s plan?

6.       Or……

Lord Gormon Peake was a fierce supporter of Daemon I Blackfyre and was considered one of the finest knights during the reign of King Daeron II Targaryen

7.       What if ORPHAN MAKER was asked by Daemon I Blackfyre for a secret need from his fierce and loyal supporter who couldn’t and didn’t refuse him? What if the sword was to be a gift to Daemon’s newborn bastard son by Daenerys I,…..Duncan the Tall? @Megorova is the expert on this theory, but I wish to extend it further.

Ser Quentyn Ball, a master-at-arms at the Red Keep, supported Daemon I Blackfyre during the First Blackfyre Rebellion

During the reign of Aegon IV

In King's Landing Quentyn was the master-at-arms of the Red Keep during King Aegon IV Targaryen's days. At some point, Aegon promised Quentyn a place in the Kingsguard once an opening were to become apparent. In order to facilitate this Quentyn made his wife join the silent sisters. Aegon died before an opening in the Sworn Brotherhood became vacant, however.^[2]

First Blackfyre Rebellion

When a place in the Kingsguard became available under King Daeron II Targaryen, son and heir of Aegon IV, Quentyn reminded him of his father's promise. Fireball was refused the white cloak for reasons unknown, and it was instead given to Ser Willem Wylde. This betrayal caused Quentyn to choose Daemon Blackfyre's side during Daemon's rebellion. It was rumored that Fireball had as much a part as did Bittersteel in convincing Daemon to claim the Iron Throne.^[2]

It was Fireball who rescued Daemon when King Daeron sent the Kingsguard to arrest him.

8.       Meg (and me too) thinks that Dunk was bought to KL from Dorne by FireBall (Peakes, Balls and Florents claim descent from the three husbands of Florys the Fox, a daughter of Garth Greenhand) via DUN fort of DusKendale, hence name D-U-N-K, which Dunk himself takes to be Duncan.

9.       What if Fireball was given both ORPHAN MAKER and DUNK, and ordered to bring him up as a secret Blackfyre, (backupfyre really)?

10.   What if FireBall didn’t get killed by an archer at Redgrass field as claimed (the archers, RAVEN’S TEETH, were Bloodraven’s men so they lied for him) but was killed by the all-knowing, 1001 eyed Bloodraven in order to reduce the number of possible future Blackfyre threats like Dunk.

11.   FireBall died in KL after hiding ORPHANMAKER and Dunk went missing in Flea Bottom and Bloodraven spared DUNK AS HE felt there was no more danger.

12.   The rest we know. Arlan of Pennytree finds Dunk with the letter from Dun fort, Duskendale faded and with the words DUN……K…..

13.   All credits to Meg, I didn’t think up most of this. So don’t put a plagiarizing report.

14.   I think Dunk finds the sword and his true identity but buries them in Pennytree, symbolically burying his past. I’ve discussed many of this in the....

.................... OLD NAN DUNK thread. click it to view

POSSIBLE WIELDERS OF ORPHANMAKER

·         We know for sure Brienne is one of Dunk’s descendants by OLD NAN (if she is ROHANNE WEBBER, ALYSANNE STARK OR TANSELLE is content for my other thread) so it’s fitting if she gets the sword…but she already has one VSS.

·          Maybe she’d find where Dunk hid it in Pennytree and also acknowledge her relation to Dunk and her dragonseed heritage but bury it like her ancestor (not literally here) and give the sword to Pod Payne. She is near PENNYTREE after all now,

·         JAIME is another possibility as he too is near Pennytree….though his survival is doubtful.

·         Or maybe the sword is still in the ruins of DUN FORT DUSKENDALE. Brienne may find it after her stint with the BwB.

AS FOR THE SWORD SEEING ACTION IN THE FINAL BATTLE, THE POSSIBLE WIELDERS DISCUSSED WOULD SURELY BE THERE, I FEEL.

BRIGHTROAR

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VALYRIAN STEEL SWORD #18;

BRIGHTROAR:

Excerpts from my other post…

·

·         The Valyrian steel greatsword of House Lannister, Brightroar was lost with Tommen II Lannister when he sailed to the Smoking Sea, to find riches, plunder and the remaining sorcery in the ruins of Valyria, a century after the Doom. The fleet, Tommen and Brightroar never returned.

·         Now fast forward to 291 A.C. when Gerion Lannister, Tywin's youngest brother and Tyrion's favorite uncle goes on a 'fools' quest to retrieve the sword and find all the riches and remaining sorcery on his ship 'Laughing Lion'. He too was last seen at Old Volantis when half his crew deserted him and he had to buy slaves for oarsmen to row the ship to the Smoking Sea.

·        I think he did find Brightroar , but also something more that made him ambitious....something about dragons and sorcery. know....

I have good reason to believe that The Sailor's wife in Braavos is not Tysha like some believe and actually mother to Gerion Lannister's hitherto second unknown baseborn daughter, Lanna.

Tysha was not a whore

Tyrion was never a sailor, while Gerion was.

Tysha was just a crofter's daughter. Once she was....sent from Tyrion, she would have either commited suicide,married some fat innkeep and had lotsof kids,or plotted revenge. Why would she go to a strange and unknown place like Braavos when the world she knew was only the westerlands?

The Sailor's wife's daughter has golden hair and is named Lanna (feminine form of Lann ,origin of Lannister) You may argue that it could be Tyrion who's the father, but would Tysha want to keep a name that would remind her of that gruesome past? Moreover I believe that Tyrion's father is Aerys, as Tyrion's different hair color like Valyrians rather than Lannister gold, mismatched eyes, dwarfism and Tywin's telling him that he was no son of his are certain small proofs....but that is a different thread. So it has to be Gerion.

Lanna is 14 while Joy Hill is 12 running (born in 288 A.C.) so some may argue that Gerion sailed for Valyria only in 291 AC. how could he have fathered Lanna before/I say why not? he was a sailor before and my above theory also supports that Braavos is where Gerion went to become a FM in the HOBAW. And maybe entrusted BRIGHTROAR  to his whore wife and daughter.

POSSIBLE LOCATIONS AND WIELDERS

1.       Either with Jaqen/Gerion/Alchemist/Pate in a Doraemon pouch/Hermione pouch wherever he goes.

2.       Hidden with the Sailor’s Wife like Arya hid Needle, waiting for the right time to reveal it.

3.       Or my theory is wrong and BRIGHTROAR is still in Valyria…..where Euron Crowseye took it??? To match his VS armor??

4.       Arya, Euron, Gerion/Jaqen/Trump etc. are possible wielders.

DAWN

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HONORABLE MENTION #19 DAWN;

·         Edric Dayne and Anguy go to bury Beric in the Dornish Marches. Areo Hotah and Obara Sand along with Ser Balon Swann hunt Darkstar in the mountains near High Hermitage. The Dornish scene is getting very interesting.

·         I think there’s going to be a ‘4 WAY’  Mexican standoff (since it is agreed Dorne is based on Moorish Spain, it is fitting). OBARA HOTAH – DARKSTAR – THE BwB boys – SWANN.

·         The outcome can be discussed in another thread in detail, but I think the BwB boys will survive.

·         I don’t think Darkstar is currently in possession of DAWN as some believe. If he has it (very unlikely), then it would go to Edric after the 4WMS.

·         Or else, Edric would pay home (Starfall) a visit and take it with him.

·         I don’t expect him to survive the remainder of the series, so in his dying moments (somewhere, somehow), he’d tell to give it to Arya likely for returning it back home like NED did.

·         With her missing, it would be in Gendry’s safekeeping.

·         Gendry is a strong candidate for AAR as he is

1.       a believer,

2.       is a blacksmith and armorer like the original AA

3.       and will be in possession of Dawn (which many say is Lightbringer and which I’ve come to believe).

4.       He was born in KL, amidst salt and smoke after the Sack of KL. (Salt=tears + Smoke=from fire)

5.       His Nissa Nissa will be ARYA. Remember the dead direwolf impaled with a stag’s horn with the six pups at the start of AGOT? SYBOLISM.

But all of this speculation. AAR could be Jon or Dany and her dragons or anybody else too.

Phew! Done

Well, you are finally getting somewhere. Might be easier to post your 2 ideas separately without the hidden stuff. I began answering your assumptions, but it got too difficult to keep track of your comments. You have a lot to say and explain.

TheLastWolf · September 12, 2020

14 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Well, you are finally getting somewhere.

Thank you

14 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Might be easier to post your 2 ideas separately without the hidden stuff

It would be really long and most people are lazy to go through the whole thing (except if they are really interested). With all the content in spoilers, they can read only what they want when they want.

14 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

I began answering your assumptions, but it got too difficult to keep track of your comments.

My bad. You can answer now I hope?

14 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

You have a lot to say and explain.

I thought I was finished!!! Go through all the comments/replies/posts in the thread and I'll explain what needs explaining.

Or did you mean before?

Curled Finger · September 12, 2020

11 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

Thank you

It would be really long and most people are lazy to go through the whole thing (except if they are really interested). With all the content in spoilers, they can read only what they want when they want.

My bad. You can answer now I hope?

I thought I was finished!!! Go through all the comments/replies/posts in the thread and I'll explain what needs explaining.

Or did you mean before?

You want to play. That's always fun. I'm out of the numbers part of this thing so let's do swords.

1. Why would Truth be in Lys? Moredo was last seen in Gull Town. A big deal was made about the unrest in the Vale--that is what Moredo was there for. His family's money and assets were all seized during this exercise in the Vale. He need money to buy an army in Braavos. F&B draws attention to the lesser Arryns having a ton of cash. Occam's Razor says Truth is in the Vale, possibly even Gull Town.

Curled Finger · September 12, 2020

2 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

You want to play. That's always fun. I'm out of the numbers part of this thing so let's do swords.

1. Why would Truth be in Lys? Moredo was last seen in Gull Town. A big deal was made about the unrest in the Vale--that is what Moredo was there for. His family's money and assets were all seized during this exercise in the Vale. He need money to buy an army in Braavos. F&B draws attention to the lesser Arryns having a ton of cash. Occam's Razor says Truth is in the Vale, possibly even Gull Town.

Dang it, that should have been #1.c-lousy stinking long posts...

1a. Shadoq's arakh could well be Caggo's arakh. I was stunned to find this mention. We know Shadoq's arakh went over the side and then nothing. Could be lost, could be scooped up right then and there, could be Shadoq got it back. A Dothraki with an arakh would be a perfect fit for the Barbarian character class.

1b. Jon's indisposed at the moment and for moments to come most likely. Is there a contingency plan for Longclaw perhaps not being available to Jon in the future?

2. No real argument, just an ancient idea that may have zero merit but worth tossing out: Vigilance was last seen during the Dance of the Dragons. The Hightower wielding it was killed when some other relative took over command. I think it's probable that relative also took Vigilance, but there were several noteworthy foes involved in this battle. What says one of them didn't take it? What says there wasn't more Caltrops BS involved and one of them took it just like Peake did with Orphan-Maker? The most famous adversary in this particular battle was Roddy the Ruin Dustin. The ancient idea is that Vigilance was taken by Roddy and passed all the way down to Willum, who would have it buried next to him at the Tower of Joy. It's fun, but unlikely given Ned's insistence upon returning Dawn.

3a. Sorry, I have to discard this whole Pod history. Again, fun, but unlikely. However, House Peyne could well be one of those impoverished houses Tywin attempted to buy VS from. Pod is way too young to be a Reyne descendant and it was House Tarbeck that actually had a 3 year-old escape Tywin's wrath. This baby was rumored to go to Essos and become a bard. Think Mance Rayder if you want a possible descendant from that round of punishments. We don't know but rather suspect that Red Rain was the Reyne sword. You would have to find the intersection at which the Reynes and Drumms met---I think I found the last intersection they would both be at to be the DoD.

3b. Nightfall is the wildcard card far as I can tell. Some of the swords are sort of paired up by name, Blackfyre/Red Rain, Lamentation/Lady Forlorn, Truth/Vigilance, Dawn/Nightfall and so forth. Not all, just a few of them. Currently, my money is on Euron taking Nightfall and doing something ungodly with it and thereby destroying it--making room for a certain arakh or ax even, to join the fray. Asha isn't a swordsman, but Theon is. Keep that in mind for both IB swords.

4. Sam isn't big or strong enough to handle a greatsword. He may take it from someone, but he cannot effectively use it in a fight. Off the top of my head there is only 1 character who is big and strong enough to handle a sword of this size. He carries one throughout his adventures in Essos. While there is another character in Westeros who could have wielded Heartsbane, his leg is injured making a crucial balance an issue. Heartsbane is Jorah's. In this case, the sword name and character are perfectly matched.

5a. I can't do any of this with the weird. BR was nowhere near Winterfell. Dark Sister is not in Lyanna's tomb. DS is a sorcerer's sword and will be utilized by a magical character. Slim blade and pommel made for a woman's hand, there are only 2 swords in play that a regular sized woman or child could use. I don't like it, but we have a rogue type character who is a dark sister and will wield Dark Sister. Rogue is a subcategory of the magical character class. Like Heartsbane, it's all in the name with Dark Sister. This sword is simply in the north. Given Bloodraven's current housing situation DS is likely in that cave with him and Bran and Hodor and Jojen and a light sister who will carry DS for a while.

5b. While I doubt that the ax will actually come into play (mentions being about the kracken summoning horn in truth) it would be a fit weapon for any number of fierce fighters who are not swordsman. Like Asha or Tormund or Gendry among many. Swords take work. An ax not so much as a strong grip and arm. Absolutely bitchen weapon for a Barbarian character class type to use.

That should be enough to get you started. Have fun!

TheLastWolf · September 13, 2020

9 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

That should be enough to get you started. Have fun!

Will take time. But we'll surely have fun!

TheLastWolf · September 18, 2020

On 9/12/2020 at 11:00 PM, Curled Finger said:

1. Why would Truth be in Lys? Moredo was last seen in Gull Town. A big deal was made about the unrest in the Vale--that is what Moredo was there for. His family's money and assets were all seized during this exercise in the Vale. He need money to buy an army in Braavos. F&B draws attention to the lesser Arryns having a ton of cash. Occam's Razor says Truth is in the Vale, possibly even Gull Town.

Replying to the first emboldened text, hunch, intuition, gut feeling. Truth is perfect for a new gooder (like the waif says) Jorah.

Then ext, entirely possible, just my views are different. Because if Lamentation and Widow's wail are in the Vale, there are already 3 VS blades in the Vale incl. Lyn Corbray's Lady Forlorn. That's why I think it might be elsewhere like Lys, where there are Edric Storm, Lyseni pirates like Saan, Dany and Jorah and Tyrion if, no, when they stop on their way home to make things interesting.

On 9/13/2020 at 2:40 AM, Curled Finger said:

1a. Shadoq's arakh could well be Caggo's arakh. I was stunned to find this mention. We know Shadoq's arakh went over the side and then nothing. Could be lost, could be scooped up right then and there, could be Shadoq got it back. A Dothraki with an arakh would be a perfect fit for the Barbarian character class.

Sorry. Over looked it. Entirely possible. Same arakh and dragonbone hilt. Hmm...yes. I wanted more VS blades in the optimistic hope of more to beat the Others.

On 9/13/2020 at 2:40 AM, Curled Finger said:

1b. Jon's indisposed at the moment and for moments to come most likely. Is there a contingency plan for Longclaw perhaps not being available to Jon in the future?

Come on...! How long will he stay dead for someone to take over his sword? NO need thinks mesa.

I'll come back to the rest later.

Adios

Curled Finger · September 18, 2020

10 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

Then ext, entirely possible, just my views are different. Because if Lamentation and Widow's wail are in the Vale, there are already 3 VS blades in the Vale incl. Lyn Corbray's Lady Forlorn. That's why I think it might be elsewhere like Lys, where there are Edric Storm, Lyseni pirates like Saan, Dany and Jorah and Tyrion if, no, when they stop on their way home to make things interesting.

Sorry. Over looked it. Entirely possible. Same arakh and dragonbone hilt. Hmm...yes. I wanted more VS blades in the optimistic hope of more to beat the Others.

Come on...! How long will he stay dead for someone to take over his sword? NO need thinks mesa.

I'll come back to the rest later.

Adios

Lamentation isn't in the Vale. It isn't anywhere and does not exist. Leaves 2 VS weapons in the Vale. BTW, since I can't get any sort of good intel on the Dornish Marches which seem to be both part of the Reach and Stormlands put this in your pipe and smoke it. Was a time there were 3 special weapons in the Reach, Orphan-Maker, Vigilance and Dawn. As of this writing there may be 3 yet in the Reach: Nightfall, Vigilance and Orphan-Maker. It's a big place, Man. Ice, DS and Longclaw were all in the North at the same time for a long time. I've never found an instance of any special weapon in the Stormlands or Dorne or Riverlands--curious. You had 2, count 'em, 2 VS swords with the stinking Ironborn for crying out loud. Concentration of weapons in a single place means very little. The swords are all listed as Westerosi meaning they are all known to exist in Westeros not known to exist elsewhere.

Caggos arakh isn't described so we don't know if it is Shadoq's arakh with a dragon bone hilt and black blade. And we don't know it isn't!

Not having a contingency plan for Longclaw leaves much to be desired. It is a valuable weapon, more so because it's just where it's needed. You don't reckon one of those slimy King's or Queen's Men will make off with it seeing how their castles and keeps have all been stripped from them? Moredo Rogarre got enough cash to raise an army (or navy) with his little sword--I'm thinking Longclaw could buy back all those lost lands. Jon's out for the nonce and doesn't need it. Who's going to protect and safe keep it for him? For how long? Last I checked Longclaw wasn't the Targaryen sword of Kings. Jon doesn't need 2 VS swords. Just looking ahead, Man.

TheLastWolf · September 19, 2020

10 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Caggos arakh isn't described so we don't know if it is Shadoq's arakh with a dragon bone hilt and black blade. And we don't know it isn't!

Both are arakhs. It is known. Both are Valyrian steel (black blades). It is known. But it isn't mentioned that Caggo's has a dragonbone hilt, but it is mentioned that Sandoq's has. That is the only difference. The hilt. Could have been changed, lost, stolen. After all, dragonbone is precious, though not as much as VS.

And CF, my man, you saying that Caggo's is not described is wrong. See the wiki and find the chapter where its described. It's not such a big oversight. I made it too in my previous post of this thread.

Caggo rides a monstrous warhorse and wields a rare arakh of Valyrian steel.

Am i right or wrong in assuming that all VS blades have dark blades (all the descriptions, from Ice to Lady Forlorn all say this), only different color patterns (red in the case of WW and OK for instance)?

10 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Not having a contingency plan for Longclaw leaves much to be desired. It is a valuable weapon, more so because it's just where it's needed.

Ok...

10 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

You don't reckon one of those slimy King's or Queen's Men will make off with it seeing how their castles and keeps have all been stripped from them?

Sure, Can happen.

10 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Moredo Rogarre got enough cash to raise an army (or navy) with his little sword--I'm thinking Longclaw could buy back all those lost lands.

Only if the Lannisters on the IT pardon them first (and they have 2 VS blades now)

10 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Jon's out for the nonce and doesn't need it. Who's going to protect and safe keep it for him? For how long?

Only for the nonce. And the majority at Castle Black is made up of wildlings who are loyal to him now. Tormund would rip anyone apart with his bare hands if they get near his corpse. Bowen marsh has it coming for him,

10 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Last I checked Longclaw wasn't the Targaryen sword of Kings. Jon doesn't need 2 VS swords. Just looking ahead, Man.

Jon ain't Targ. He is Stark and First Men to the core. Nature chose him to be born with that appearance. Even if Rhaegar is the dad, 23 chromosomes won't change 15/16 years of Ned's upbringing of Jon. I very much doubt that his parentage will be revealed before he comes back. Even then Jon isn't going to embrace his Targ heritage over the Stark one. No way. Longclaw is a bastard sword, made for him. Dark sister is for Meera/Brandor/Arya/Dany. B;lackfyre probably with the ginger sweets from Illyrio to YG/FAegon.

Curled Finger · September 19, 2020

9 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

Both are arakhs. It is known. Both are Valyrian steel (black blades). It is known. But it isn't mentioned that Caggo's has a dragonbone hilt, but it is mentioned that Sandoq's has. That is the only difference. The hilt. Could have been changed, lost, stolen. After all, dragonbone is precious, though not as much as VS.

And CF, my man, you saying that Caggo's is not described is wrong. See the wiki and find the chapter where its described. It's not such a big oversight. I made it too in my previous post of this thread.

Caggo rides a monstrous warhorse and wields a rare arakh of Valyrian steel.

Am i right or wrong in assuming that all VS blades have dark blades (all the descriptions, from Ice to Lady Forlorn all say this), only different color patterns (red in the case of WW and OK for instance)?

Ok...

Sure, Can happen.

Only if the Lannisters on the IT pardon them first (and they have 2 VS blades now)

Only for the nonce. And the majority at Castle Black is made up of wildlings who are loyal to him now. Tormund would rip anyone apart with his bare hands if they get near his corpse. Bowen marsh has it coming for him,

Jon ain't Targ. He is Stark and First Men to the core. Nature chose him to be born with that appearance. Even if Rhaegar is the dad, 23 chromosomes won't change 15/16 years of Ned's upbringing of Jon. I very much doubt that his parentage will be revealed before he comes back. Even then Jon isn't going to embrace his Targ heritage over the Stark one. No way. Longclaw is a bastard sword, made for him. Dark sister is for Meera/Brandor/Arya/Dany. B;lackfyre probably with the ginger sweets from Illyrio to YG/FAegon.

The blades are not all black, but dark grey. (You said dark, this is just explanation as I understand it). Orphan Maker and Shadoq's blades are specifically described as black and we are given an instance of darkening for Blackfyre in Fire & Blood. If your Lamentation survived I think we could expect it would be black because of the fire. To be specific Caggo's arakh is not described as black nor having a dragon bone hilt. I should have been more clear. There is an idea, possibly born from artists' depictions that Blackfyre has symbols etched into the blade and Red Rain as actually red. None of that is confirmed. My old friend @One-eyed Misbehavin once matched Orphan-Maker with a glass candle, stressing the color black. In that there is a green candle, it's not a far out idea that the VS blades could be colored. Just saying.

I get a huge kick out being called Man and Brother as I tend to use those terms a great deal, but I am not a man. Sorry. I hope this intel doesn't change your affection for me.

To Blackfyre and Jon: Why make such a big deal about Blackfyre being the sword of Kings if Jon won't get it? Lots and lots of turning gears in this. We both agree that Jorah Mormont, who already possessed a VS sword, will get another sword because he is a hero. Why wouldn't we expect the same for Jon or Brienne?

While I can appreciate your logic for Jon, he is half Targ and that part of him has yet to be seen. We don't have the first clue how genetics actually work in this world other than Baratheons have black hair. My take at any rate. Jon is undergoing a huge metamorphosis (I don't believe he's actually dead). Whatever he is undergoing will have definite and perhaps new effects on his personality. I think it's going to seal his Starkness so GRRM can hit him with this other side. Targs have got definite traits. Keep an eye out for one or two showing up before too long in our sleeping bastard.

Blackfyre is also a bastard sword. Bastard is only a nod to an unusual configuration--tweak on a greatsword if you will, and the pommel...Blackfyre requires 1 and half hand grip on its pommel. I agree wholeheartedly that Blackfyre will probably show up with and be utilized by Aegon at his big reveal party, but there is still a lot more story after Aegon is dead. Meera or Brandor absolutely will take Dark Sister from the cave, but that sword is for another magical character more suited to the name and title Dark Sister.

Shall I go back and dig up the remainder of your initial comments or is there more to say in this bit?

TheLastWolf · September 20, 2020

16 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

I get a huge kick out being called Man and Brother as I tend to use those terms a great deal, but I am not a man. Sorry

It's me who should apologize for assuming so.

16 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

I hope this intel doesn't change your affection for me.

In no way. :cheers:

16 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Why make such a big deal about Blackfyre being the sword of Kings if Jon won't get it?

I had an old thread about Jon becoming King.... Of what? We can't be so sure about it.

16 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Blackfyre is also a bastard sword

:agree: but if Jon ain't a bastard? And RLJ ain't such a certainty. Let's just agree to disagree on these few small fine points. No use extending the argument in these cases. Just a difference in the matter of opinion. Otherwise I agree with all you said about DS and others.

16 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Shall I go back and dig up the remainder of your initial comments or is there more to say in this bit?

No. It's me who should do the digging. I didn't finish replying to all that you posted after this thread got back on track. Here are what I'm gonna reply to in a while.

On 9/13/2020 at 2:40 AM, Curled Finger said:

. Sam isn't big or strong enough to handle a greatsword. He may take it from someone, but he cannot effectively use it in a fight. Off the top of my head there is only 1 character who is big and strong enough to handle a sword of this size. He carries one throughout his adventures in Essos. While there is another character in Westeros who could have wielded Heartsbane, his leg is injured making a crucial balance an issue. Heartsbane is Jorah's. In this case, the sword name and character are perfectly matched.

On 9/13/2020 at 2:40 AM, Curled Finger said:

5b. While I doubt that the ax will actually come into play (mentions being about the kracken summoning horn in truth) it would be a fit weapon for any number of fierce fighters who are not swordsman. Like Asha or Tormund or Gendry among many. Swords take work. An ax not so much as a strong grip and arm. Absolutely bitchen weapon for a Barbarian character class type to use.

That should be enough to get you started. Have fun!

TheLastWolf · September 20, 2020

About sam and Heartsbane, I didn't say he would become a great warrior or anything by wielding it.

Spoiler

My reasons for thinking that Sam would and should end up withe sword are;

It would be a perfect parallel to Neville Longbottom slaying Nagini with the sword of Godric Gryffindor if Sam (not a warrior like Neville also wasn't) destroys something/somebody crucial to the power of the Others.(like Nagini was a Horcrux of Voldemort, something similar to it)

Moreover Sam would be using the sword that came indirectly from JonCon (Connington - Griffin) which is a great parallel to Godric GRYFFINdor's sword.

And to the issue of the axe, Asha is best suited as you said, followed by Tormund. Gendry can have a hammer or long sword that will suit him better

Curled Finger · September 20, 2020

6 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

About sam and Heartsbane, I didn't say he would become a great warrior or anything by wielding it.

Hide contents

My reasons for thinking that Sam would and should end up withe sword are;

It would be a perfect parallel to Neville Longbottom slaying Nagini with the sword of Godric Gryffindor if Sam (not a warrior like Neville also wasn't) destroys something/somebody crucial to the power of the Others.(like Nagini was a Horcrux of Voldemort, something similar to it)

Moreover Sam would be using the sword that came indirectly from JonCon (Connington - Griffin) which is a great parallel to Godric GRYFFINdor's sword.

And to the issue of the axe, Asha is best suited as you said, followed by Tormund. Gendry can have a hammer or long sword that will suit him better

I drone on on about Longclaw because according to my own matching criteria I believe someone else will wield her. That's a fun discussion and the only reason I press the subject. There are a lot of ways to match heroes to swords and I've tried to incorporate as much information as I have been able to gather into my matching. While you make a nice comparison between Sam and Neville Longbottom, that would have never blipped on my radar. We all gots reasons and those diverse reasons are fun to explore and often illuminating. While I'm all in on the Zelazny, Williams and Lovejoy nods, it hadn't occurred to me to look at Harry Potter. Hrm.

Another really interesting point you bring up is Jon becoming king of what. I like this line of bigger thinking. I recently encountered 2 posters who don't even see a great battle impending. Who knew?

Does Gendry actually use a sword? Awaiting your replies to remaining.

TheLastWolf · September 20, 2020

1 hour ago, Curled Finger said:

Does Gendry actually use a sword?

When escaping from Harrenhal with Hot pie and Arya. He's a hammer or axe guy, but since he forges swords too, easy enough to use 'em if need arises. AL ready one instance.

1 hour ago, Curled Finger said:

Awaiting your replies to remaining.

Tomorrow, OK?

Differences in time zones are a problem too

TheLastWolf · September 23, 2020

On 9/20/2020 at 8:04 PM, Curled Finger said:

Awaiting your replies to remaining.

Actually I think we have gone through all that you posted as a collective reply to my OP compilation. (given below)