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Covid-19 #3: It's More Personal Than Ever


Zorral

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24 minutes ago, JEORDHl said:

That's fucking brutal

And tangentially brought to mind a conversation I had several days ago with my ex-wife. We were discussing what to do about school in September [our Province's plan is trash] and while she acknowledged that I might die if either girl brought it home, she also didn't want to rob our girls of school's social aspects and them missing their friends. I let it slide because we'd already had a tilt about the efficacy of facemasks [eyeroll] but jesus christ. If I make through all of this bullshit without turning into a full on misanthrope, it might legitimately shock me.

I hope B Danzig pulls his head out of his ass.  

Sorry you’re dealing with the same dumb bullshit. Misanthropy is really the only logical conclusion to all this

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4 hours ago, Fury Resurrected said:

Sorry you’re dealing with the same dumb bullshit. Misanthropy is really the only logical conclusion to all this

I'm sorry both of you+ have to deal with such life affecting situations.  It's just wrong.

We continue doing everything we did from the beginning when there was official isolation and almost everything was shut down.  The one difference is we will see our pod amigo once a week or so in the park, which we began doing at the end of June and we are getting in a many doctor appointments as possible. (We're about to start our 6th month of isolation as much as possible!) We continue to have our groceries delivered.  We cannot afford to relax because we're surrounded for many blocks in every direction by hundreds of people on each block crammed together wearing no masks and staying stationary for hours.  The narrow space for us to walk is constantly filled with gangs on bikes and skateboards hurtling at us front and back.  It's a miasma of aerosoles.

 

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@RhaenysBee You’re not going to get a unified answer ;) The rules themselves differ between countries and within the rules there is so much scope to interpret what they mean and what your own personal risks are. So the best thing to do is just do what feels safe to you. We put shopping in quarantine at the beginning but stopped doing it. We disinfect phones if we use them outside. But according to our authorities, the virus is spread in family and friend meetings or at work (when people forget to keep their distance) and we don’t meet with people or go to work (I met up with friends twice since March and we kept our distance both times).

I mentioned before I don’t believe in closing borders. We went for a week’s holiday abroad and I believe we were much safer than many people staying at home. The only risky thing was eating out, which we don’t do when we’re home. 

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1 hour ago, Filippa Eilhart said:

@RhaenysBee You’re not going to get a unified answer ;) The rules themselves differ between countries and within the rules there is so much scope to interpret what they mean and what your own personal risks are. So the best thing to do is just do what feels safe to you. We put shopping in quarantine at the beginning but stopped doing it. We disinfect phones if we use them outside. But according to our authorities, the virus is spread in family and friend meetings or at work (when people forget to keep their distance) and we don’t meet with people or go to work (I met up with friends twice since March and we kept our distance both times).

I mentioned before I don’t believe in closing borders. We went for a week’s holiday abroad and I believe we were much safer than many people staying at home. The only risky thing was eating out, which we don’t do when we’re home. 

Yes, and while I totally understand why there’s no right answer (differences between people and countries and severity of the virus, like you said), I kinda wish there was. Oh well. My mum puts shopping in quarantine too. I don’t really do that, because I didn’t buy any items I couldn’t disinfect (she had bought rugs, outdoor furniture and quite a bit of home items during quarantine), it’s all packaged or metal/plastic/easily washable textile. I do let fruit and vegetables sit around for at least 24 hours before using them though. I met one friend two or three times. That was all the voluntarily socializing I did. All the rest of my outings were solitary or with family members who I have close contact with anyway. Oh and we visited extended family one time. 

Yes, I still don’t feel safe about traveling abroad and don’t like the idea of people vacationing at busy Italian holiday destinations and come home. Of course this is no different than going out anywhere in my own city as there are tourists here as well. (Though far far fewer than usual) The other week my father went on holiday abroad as well, which was likely safer than a regular week at home as they didn’t get off the boat the whole time and had zero contact with locals or other travelers. :dunno: Who the heck knows anything anymore?

As I said, a huge part of my coronavirus anxiety is not having one right answer. It is true for everything under the sun, but especially this weird unknown virus, that for every piece of information there’s the contradicting opinion out there (and I don’t mean Facebook users, but governments, experts, international associations, medical professionals). 

Well, I’ll continue to follow regulations and not travel and cut back on visiting shops and just hope for the best. It’s not like I can tell people what to do, especially that the entire point is my not knowing what’s the right thing to do either. 

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21 hours ago, Fury Resurrected said:

Sorry you’re dealing with the same dumb bullshit. Misanthropy is really the only logical conclusion to all this

Misanthropy is the best way to reach equal opportunity. When you think that the bulk of mankind is made up of scumbags, you don't have any favourite. And I really didn't need this crisis to boost my innate misanthropy; what's sure is that it will never ever disappear, now.

 

As for correct behaviour, it really depends on the severity of the outbreak, on how many infected people you might meet, and on how much contact will occur outdoor in a sunny and hot weather, or indoor.

There's a reason why the severity of cases has been going down in Europe and some places in Northern US in late spring / early summer, and why it's been going up in places where summers are insanely hot, like Israel or Florida. If you're outdoor with sun blasting all over, the virus won't survive more than a few minutes in the air or on any sun-bathed surface. But when it's so hot that everyone takes shelter inside in more or less ventilated closed spaces, things begin to go bad. And you risk to take in way higher viral loads inside than outside walking in the sunny park.

When it comes to surfaces, there's a risk, but from what I've seen of studies the last few months, it's way lower than airborn / droplets, which make up the high majority of infections. Sure, washing hands should be the way to go, but cleaning everything you touch every few hours is most probably overkill if you're in a country with low level of infections (say Italy or Austria right now); if you're in Texas or Brazil, the risk of surface contamination seems way higher.

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It might be that surfaces are far less contagious than originally thought but talking people far more. That is how I understand the currently avaliable information but I could be completly wrong. 

It also seems to spread more effectively in places where AC use is more common. That is at least what the messages from countries like Isreal seems to be.

 

Edit:

People are switching the tiny "face" shields that do not even cover the nose most of the time around here. As far as I understand it face shields are only of very limited use without a mask. But things are under control here although there are clusters in the meat industry and tourism. I fear shit will hit the fan when large numbers of tourists start coming back from Croatia because social distancing discipline is pretty bad down there according to most infos I found and some people that have returned have already tested positive. Italy is much better in that regard afaik. There have been reports about fake tests being sold especially in eastern Europe (you need them now if you return from certain countries). Opening up for tourism was a bad idea in my opinion.

None of the rules are enforced at this point in my experince and the police in some places even said so because some parts of the emergency laws that have been tested in front of our supreme court have been declared unconstitutional. Masks in all indoor places or complete lookdown except for what society needs to work would be constitutional as far as I understand it  but the exceptions they built into the laws made sure that they would not hold because everybody needs to be equal when it comes to laws. Most people are pretty desiplined in the places that require mask nevertheless.

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On 8/8/2020 at 8:22 AM, RhaenysBee said:

Generally I suppose the takeaway is that it all comes down to abiding regulations and doing whatever else is comfortable to the individual. People here are generally following rules, at least the vast majority, there are always exceptions. And the rules are more or less sensible to make sure people are safe while also trying to leave some wiggle room for the economy to recover. I do think we should have closed boarders when neighbors throughout Europe started to see a rise in new cases, but what do I know. 

Yes, that's exactly it. Following the guidelines, of course, but everyone has to make their own calculations about what level of risk they are comfortable within that area. If you live with someone else, as with you and your sister, that can be tricky because obviously you are affecting one another on daily basis.

FWIW, I would find the routine you describe to be way too much.

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On 8/8/2020 at 4:41 AM, DireWolfSpirit said:

Here's one I've filed under personal experiences during covid-

Certain workmate has a daughter at home that he"s co-raising with his ex.

He's mentioned being nervous about bringing home the virus to her and that's a real guilt/fear many essential workers have to rationalize their way through for sure.

Thing is the guys been hitting the strip clubs and he's actively tried recruiting others from work to go with him on more than one occasion.

I can't see how one squares that type of behavior with saying they are concerned about exposing the girl to the virus, but then going on ahead with the whole lap dance scene. That just doesn't add up.

Wait a minute... strip clubs are open?! I feel like this is an incredible piece of news that everyone kinda glossed over. How? I feel like most of the pandemic rules just don’t really work in that environment. 

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13 minutes ago, S John said:

Wait a minute... strip clubs are open?! I feel like this is an incredible piece of news that everyone kinda glossed over. How? I feel like most of the pandemic rules just don’t really work in that environment. 

Not gonna link it, but get creative with Google and search outdoor COVID strip clubs. It's even more depressing than it sounds.

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They're all open here; someone hit someone else with a truck in the parking lot of one the other day - after an altercation inside the strip club. It was on the news and everything.

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Regarding Wisconsin strip clubs-

Wisconsin's "Safer at Home" policy was overturned when the Republicans sued and the State Supreme Court deemed it beyond the Guvs authority here. So everybody that wants to be open for business is free to operate afaik.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Starkess said:

Yes, that's exactly it. Following the guidelines, of course, but everyone has to make their own calculations about what level of risk they are comfortable within that area. If you live with someone else, as with you and your sister, that can be tricky because obviously you are affecting one another on daily basis.

FWIW, I would find the routine you describe to be way too much.

I suppose if you share a household with someone be that a family member or friend or romantic partner, there’s no way of practicing preventative measures between yourselves. Well, sister and I are both in our twenties with no known underlying health problems, so statistically we should expect to push through it all right. I hope we won’t have to find out though. And I especially don’t want to get our parents in the mix. 

Well yeah. As I said before, I can absolutely see why someone would think it’s too much as well as why someone’d think it’s not enough. 

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The coronavirus is very personal and up close for Shopping Malls and those who make profits from them.  Their future with covid-19 could be varied or it could extinction.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/08/covid-19-will-kill-lots-of-shopping-malls.html

Quote

 

[....]Prior to the pandemic, one strategy to revitalize malls was to bring in more “experiential” uses that can’t be done online. They added more restaurants, movie theaters, fitness facilities, salons, and the like. In the long run, this may still be a good strategy, but these uses are all severely impacted by the pandemic and it will take a significant amount of time for them to get back up to full use of their pre-pandemic locations, let alone expanding to new ones. And COVID-19–driven adaptations have made me question how tied all these uses really are to brick-and-mortar space, especially fitness, which is increasingly being delivered virtually.

Grocery stores present one interesting option for mall operators. Grocers were one of the few retail categories that saw sales rise during the pandemic. They tend to survive recessions, which is good for property owners who want a tenant who will keep paying rent and keep drawing customers to the shopping center even in a bad economy. But grocery stores don’t really fit inside malls very well — grocers have specific layout and parking requirements — and so bringing a grocer to replace a J.C. Penney may mean tearing down the J.C. Penney and building a freestanding grocery store in the parking lot. The Journal notes that Amazon’s soon-to-launch grocery brand, which would be less upscale than the Whole Foods brand, is a possible tenant for vacant anchor store spaces in malls. Because these stores would be smaller than traditional grocery stores, they may fit better in existing department store buildings. So that is one Amazon-in-malls angle that would work better than a fulfillment center to keep a mall healthy.

Finally, one thing you can do with a struggling mall is close it entirely. As the Journal notes, while the idea of putting an Amazon fulfillment center inside a mall is new, Amazon and other delivery companies have previously redeveloped entire mall sites into fulfillment centers. A mall is basically just a box on land — often, valuable, well-located land — so a mall can die, be demolished, and come back to life as something completely different. But the weak economy may mean an extended period before it makes sense to pursue that reincarnation.

 

 

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From the moment the CDC embraced dodgy metrics from China,  from the moment the government accepted the unfounded  declaration of pandemic from a pretty much discredited WHO,  from the moment that State and local Gauleiters assumed total power in America, this whole 'rona thing has been a political, not a public health crisis.

The death rate is tiny.  The infection rate pales beside the common cold or flu.  The panic is unprecedented, and fed hourly by agenda driven media outlets and politicians.  

No one is using critical thinking,  risk/benefit analysis, or common sense.  

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6 minutes ago, Langsax said:

From the moment the CDC embraced dodgy metrics from China,  from the moment the government accepted the unfounded  declaration of pandemic from a pretty much discredited WHO,  from the moment that State and local Gauleiters assumed total power in America, this whole 'rona thing has been a political, not a public health crisis.

The death rate is tiny.  The infection rate pales beside the common cold or flu.  The panic is unprecedented, and fed hourly by agenda driven media outlets and politicians.  

No one is using critical thinking,  risk/benefit analysis, or common sense.  

What else have you learned recently from YouTube?

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https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/08/how-to-test-every-american-for-covid-19-every-day/615217/

It's pretty personal to be tested every day for the infection, and it could be done, which would uncomplicate so very much.

In the meantime we're testing FEWER people now than we did many weeks back.

Also, how miniscule is the daily number of deaths in the USA from covid-19?

Quote

 

...Many Americans may understand that testing has failed in this country—that it has been inadequate, in one form or another, since February. What they may not understand is that it is failing, now. In each of the past two weeks, and for the first time since the pandemic began, the country performed fewer COVID-19 tests than it did in the week prior. The system is deteriorating.
[....]
The tests Mina describes already exist: They are sitting in the office of e25 Bio, a small start-up in Cambridge, Massachusetts; half a dozen other companies are working on similar products. But implementing his vision will require changing how we think about tests. These new tests are much less sensitive than the ones we run today, which means that regulations must be relaxed before they can be sold or used. Their closest analogue is rapid dengue-virus tests, used in India, which are manufactured in a quantity of 100 million a year. Mina envisions nearly as many rapid COVID-19 tests being manufactured a day. Only the federal government, acting as customer and controller, can accomplish such a feat.

If it is an audacious plan, it has an audacious payoff. Mina claims that his plan could bring the virus to heel in the U.S. within three weeks. (Other epidemiologists aren’t as sure it would work—at least without serious downsides.) His plan, while costly, is one of the few commensurate in scale to the pandemic: Even if it costs billions of dollars to realize, the U.S. is already losing billions of dollars to the virus every day. More Americans are dying of the coronavirus every month, on average, than died in the deadliest month of World War II. Donald Trump has said that the U.S. is fighting a “war” against an “invisible enemy”; Mina simply asks that the country adopt a wartime economy.[MUCH MORE]

 

 

 
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1 hour ago, Zorral said:

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/08/how-to-test-every-american-for-covid-19-every-day/615217/

It's pretty personal to be tested every day for the infection, and it could be done, which would uncomplicate so very much.

 

You can also mass-produce a few billions of them and send half a dozen to every teen and adult people in the country, and let them take the test every day for basically a week. Even with a test that would miss 1/3 of all infected people, odds are that you'll have found out the bulk of ongoing infections with a ridiculously low % left out. Definitely way more than with any other way of testing, except if you lock down everyone and test block by block for months.

Oh, and also there's a very good reason to bring on another kind of tests: it's going to go up fast in Europe in the next couple of months. The West will need a lot more testing that it can do right now.

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The other week we had a regulation issued which enables inspectors to kick people who refuse to wear face covering off public transport. 

For some reason this sensible, fair and just idea doesn’t make it into practice. I suppose inspectors just don’t want to confront people. Yesterday on the train there were more people who didn’t wear masks than people who did and the inspector didn’t even request anybody to put on face covering. She just checked tickets and left. She didn’t even try. And I do understand that she wouldn’t confront weird thugs, but maybe ask random teenagers at least? Who are likely to travel and spend a lot of time in crowds? Maybe? Teenagers aren’t that scary. Most of them. I don’t get it. The same way you don’t smoke on the train because there are signs saying you mustn’t, you should wear a damn mask because there are signs saying you must. 

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The 'medieval' themed dining and entertainment franchise re-opens, and this is what it looks like to be knighted at a socially sanctioned Distance, always keeping a 'sword-length' between yourself and any other, etc.:

https://www.vulture.com/2020/08/medieval-times-reopens-despite-covid-19.html

 

 

 

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-53816511

Massive pool party in Wuhan. Slightly crazy thing to see. The argument is Wuhan hasn't had a confirmed case since May, but it does only take one person in that kind of setting to infect a hell of a lot of people. Hopefully their lockdown has worked as well as they believe.

On a similar note of uncomfortable images, I realise every time I'm watching a show from pre-pandemic times I'm hyper aware of when characters are 'too' close to each other.

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