Durckad Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 I know this is super off-topic, but what exactly about Rose makes her a "sucky character?" Also, even if her character was objectively sucky, that it no way justifies mobbing the actress with vitriol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrackerNeil Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 2 hours ago, DanteGabriel said: The Adria Richards story is an interesting one and I remember getting into heated debates about it at the time it happened. She tried to get some bros making dongle jokes in trouble by photographing them and tweeting a picture, the guys got fired, and the Internet snapped back on her. At the time I was closer to being a techbro and had made plenty of dongle jokes at work myself. I've gotten more liberal since then but I still think it was a bad idea for her to tweet the picture of the jokey bros. I don't have a problem with Richards complaining to PyCon, although I wouldn't have done that myself. (That joke was, IMO, the kind you have to work to take offense to.) The difficulty arose when she blasted that pic to her Twitter followers, because there are only two reasons to do that: 1) she wanted the attention; 2) she intended to rally a Twitter mob against the joke-teller. Neither one is flattering to Adria Richards. (It should be noted that Richards was known for this sort of grandstanding, BTW.) What's so fascinating to me about this story is that Richards prompted a mob to go after the joke-teller, never dreaming that she herself would soon be the target of a counter-mob that would cause her more damage than she caused him. This is one of the things that made me realize that these Internet mobs do little good, often fail to bring justice, and serve mostly to make us all feel pleased with ourselves while doing mean things. Not for me, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/jul/28/authors-condemn-saudi-arabias-bid-to-host-world-science-fiction-convention Quote A group of more than 80 science fiction and fantasy authors are protesting at the possibility of one of the genres’ biggest conventions being held in Saudi Arabia in 2022, saying that “the Saudi regime is antithetical to everything SFF stands for”. Led by fantasy author Anna Smith Spark,writers including Charles Stross, Juliet McKenna, Stan Nicholls and Catriona Ward have signed an open letter objecting to Jeddah’s bid to host the World Science Fiction Convention in two years’ time. Pointing to the fact that homosexuality is illegal and punishable by death in Saudi Arabia, its escalating restrictions on freedom of speech, and the 2018 murder of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi, the writers argue that it is unacceptable to stage an international event against this backdrop. “On a personal level, we note that many of us would ourselves not be able to write or to live freely under Saudi law. We refuse to attend an event if those staffing it cannot have the same basic freedoms,” they write, in the letter addressed to the board of the World Science Fiction Society (WSFS) and the 2020 Worldcon chair, Norman Cates. “We express deep concern that many members of the SFF community would be excluded.” [....] “We believe in their right to express concerns or even distaste for a WorldCon in Saudi Arabia, but demanding that we should not be allowed to even request hosting it is absurd and unhealthy for the WorldCon in the long run,” he said. “The WorldCon already is limited in its spread as it is mainly focused on western culture countries, and as long as it is the WorldCon, it must accept all of the world.[Read More] ” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 often fail to bring justice if the intention is internet vigilantism, it won't be about justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 I quite enjoyed the last terminator film. How odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 Not sure what the worldcon news has to do with cancel culture: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 They're literally trying to cancel the Saudi Arabia bid from the ballot, so I guess that works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 I guess, though it seems to be at least to not be the type of cancelling we are talking about. Edit: Scratch that, it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 If Saudi Arabia was to somehow win by buying the vote - which is eminently possible - than virtually none of the established SFF community's authors or fans would go, many feeling that going would be actively dangerous for them, so I can see why it being put on the ballot in the first place is questionable. I think this probably should have been brought up as a major problem more than a year ago when the possibility was first floated, suddenly blowing it up now, just days before the vote, is way too late. I also don't believe there's any viable mechanism with the convention's own rules to change anything now. There is no "WorldCon ruling council" to make those decisions, that's kind of the point of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 Saudi regime is antithetical to everything SFF stands for is it? am consulting my GWF hegel: Quote Christianity and Socialism Compared Socialism is the antithesis of Christianity. Socialism is filled with elitists and Christianity is the faith of servants. Socialism is filled with submission to man. Christianity is submission to the God/man - Jesus Christ. The socialist lives under strong delusion. Christians are taught by the Holy Spirit who deals only in truth. Socialism will die with time and it's fall will be a blip on the radar of eternity. Those who die advocating socialism will suffer the wrath of a holy God forever. Christianity will stand forever and its adherents will live on in the presence of the absolute ruler of the universe in joy and peace forever. i think that means SFF is a sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maarsen Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 8 minutes ago, sologdin said: Saudi regime is antithetical to everything SFF stands for is it? am consulting my GWF hegel: i think that means SFF is a sin. I guess I have to add another sin to my daily regime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 Matthew Yglesias plunges once more into the breach, writing specifically about the David Shor situation and why there's a real problem -- namely, it's not so much that he got fired, technically, but that a lot of people on the left are convinced he was out of line and deserved firing. This bit in particular is what made me stop and decide to post this here: Quote Indeed, though Shor has found a new job in progressive politics, one of the conditions of his employment is that he can’t reveal who’s hired him — lest his new employers face the same criticism Civis did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted July 29, 2020 Author Share Posted July 29, 2020 17 minutes ago, Ran said: This bit in particular is what made me stop and decide to post this here: I dunno that kinda sounds pretty cool. David Shor: Data Analyst Superspy! Dun dun dun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 34 minutes ago, Ran said: Matthew Yglesias plunges once more into the breach, writing specifically about the David Shor situation and why there's a real problem -- namely, it's not so much that he got fired, technically, but that a lot of people on the left are convinced he was out of line and deserved firing. This bit in particular is what made me stop and decide to post this here: Same is true of James Damore, apparently. I think the Shor thing was bad, but I'm not sure how I feel in general about companies hiring people who cannot then tell others who they're working for, and the companies themselves not telling people who works for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrackerNeil Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 5 hours ago, Ran said: Matthew Yglesias plunges once more into the breach, writing specifically about the David Shor situation and why there's a real problem -- namely, it's not so much that he got fired, technically, but that a lot of people on the left are convinced he was out of line and deserved firing. This bit in particular is what made me stop and decide to post this here: I mostly agree with what Yglesias has to say here. I think that sometimes woke culture needlessly makes difficult conversations difficult. Not that these conversations are ever going to be easy, but IMO we shouldn't be trying to make them harder. I'm most wary of the way some leftists have emulated the right and constructed dogmas which may never be questioned even in the most oblique or tentative manner, and have developed methods of punishing those who transgress. If I wanted to accept anything without question, I'd be a goddamned conservative. When the left starts to resemble the right, something is dead wrong. Although, on the matter of Shor's apology: Quote While I strongly admire @owasow‘s work, it’s clear that I have not been, due to both my background and words, an effective messenger of his findings about the power of non-violent protest. I regret starting this conversation and will be much more careful moving forward. That ain't an apology, not really. Shor's not admitting that what he said was wrong or incorrect; he's saying he did not properly convey certain ideas. And regretting starting a conversation isn't the same thing as admitting you were wrong to do so. That's all fine with me, because I don't think any apology was needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conflicting Thought Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 Can you give some examples of some of the dogmas that can never be questioned that the left (or some on the left) has?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 The idea is roughly that it’s categorically wrong for a person — or at least a white person — to criticize on tactical or other grounds anything being done in the name of racial justice uncommonly silly to agree that there's a categorical wrongness in this, and self-defeating. dialogue followed a pattern in progressive circles that often involves making evidence-free assertions about how members of various groups feel. this drives me nuts, the extraliterary intentional fallacy. i dig the idea of a secret employment relationship. it can't work for lawyers and others with state licensure, but there is a value in severing one's public participation persona from one's procurement persona. all that said, am not seeing any rightwing lachrymation about ward churchill, norm finkelstein, or the hollywood ten--so it does not appear to be principled objection to boycott praxis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatCoward Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 Cancel culture gone insane. Dominos in NZ targeted for saying they would reward 'nice Karens' with free pizza. Apparently it rewards privilege. I think some people might actually think that 'Karens' are actually all called Karen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted July 30, 2020 Author Share Posted July 30, 2020 13 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said: Dominos in NZ targeted for saying they would reward 'nice Karens' with free pizza. Apparently it rewards privilege. I think some people might actually think that 'Karens' are actually all called Karen. Wow, what a bizarre story just in general. But from what I looked up, Domino's was making the offer to people actually named Karen: Quote A giveaway, titled "Calling all (nice) Karens" was posted on the pizza chain's Australian and New Zealand pages. It asked those named Karen to tell Domino's in 250 words how they were one of the "nice ones". "The name 'Karen' has become synonymous with anyone who is entitled, selfish and likes to complain," Domino's chief marketing officer in the region, Allan Collins, said while introducing the offer. "What used to be a light-hearted meme has become quite the insult to anyone actually named Karen. "Well, today we're taking the name Karen back. At Domino's, we're all about bringing people together and we want to celebrate all the great Karens out there by shouting them a free pizza!" I think the criticism of such a weird-ass offer was well warranted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 I think all brands should try and avoid humour, especially anything cultural or political, it’s just an absolute minefield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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