JoannaL Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 On 7/28/2020 at 11:56 AM, Alarich II said: Maybe you should ask yourself - "why am I making up this explanation?" I have asked myself that question, and my answer is that after my experience with the press in the last 5 years or so I really do think that an article has something to do with immigration if it is somehow nonsensical (like the rioting "partygoers", where really 48 out of 50 had a immigration background -I just looked it up ). I do not think that there is any other topic in which there are so often so nonsense descriptions or blatant non-explanation of deeds than on this topic. It is a one topic problem of the otherwise good German media which I otherwise generally trust. So their intention to not talk directly about something let to myself immediately thinking about exactly this. I guess the opposite of well done is well intentioned. I now want you to ask yourself something in return: Please read the TAZ article (https://taz.de/Prozess-um-Vergewaltigung-in-Freiburg/!5695782/) again which you linked yourself as prove that there is no taboo with immigration and crime. This is an article about a gang rape of a 18 -year old girl by 9 Syrian refugees and 1 German man. Please read it again, but do not think of the refugees but imagine that other people were the perpetrators - lets say 9 German college students. For the crime and especially the victim it makes really no difference, does it? Do you think that the TAZ would then point out that it wasnt a gang rape (just consecutive rape), that the victim was naive (this being said by her friend) and that the accused repeatedly confirmed that she said she wanted the sex (behind a bush, injured over several hours?). that after it was over she dubiously did not go directly to a police car nearby , but went home first? The whole article is - under the guise of seeing all sides- patronizing, sexist and victim blaming. do you really think that the TAZ would write the same article about 9 college students? I don't. I think the press, all of the German media, has somehow lost its way here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 doesn't the article say that a number of refugees have been charged, though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoannaL Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 8 minutes ago, sologdin said: doesn't the article say that a number of refugees have been charged, though? Yes, this article is written at the end of the process, the subtitle is : "A woman reports several men for rape. Among the suspects: refugees. The case quickly seemed clear to many - right through to the process" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altherion Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 On 7/28/2020 at 12:48 PM, Rippounet said: On the contrary, in France at least, degradations (and even arson) of churches occur on a regular basis. An anarcho-libertarian group set fire to a church in January 2019 in Grenoble. In 2018 there was a case in Orléans (with penises drawn and a poorly spelled "Allah ou Akbar," which says a great deal). I also found two fires started by teenagers and at least four by men with "mental problems," all in the last few years. And this is thanks to a 10mn search, if I were to dig deeper I am certain I would find many more. Well yes, but there's a difference between attacks on churches in general and an attack on a cathedral that is more than half a millennium old. Those things are more historical artifacts than religious ones and are generally left in peace. On 7/28/2020 at 12:48 PM, Rippounet said: Anyway, flash forward to 2020 and it's a different world. Most of the factories are already gone, and many of the remaining ones are being automated. The weakening of the unions in the 1980s was successful and, combined with a concerted political and mediatic effort, resulted in a significant shift to the right in most Western nations. But it's not about factories or unions -- as long as there are jobs (of any sort) it is advantageous to the capitalist to have more competition for those jobs. And yes, it's far from the only factor in making the world better for capitalists, but every little bit helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alarich II Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 12 hours ago, JoannaL said: I have asked myself that question, and my answer is that after my experience with the press in the last 5 years or so I really do think that an article has something to do with immigration if it is somehow nonsensical (like the rioting "partygoers", where really 48 out of 50 had a immigration background -I just looked it up ). I do not think that there is any other topic in which there are so often so nonsense descriptions or blatant non-explanation of deeds than on this topic. It is a one topic problem of the otherwise good German media which I otherwise generally trust. So their intention to not talk directly about something let to myself immediately thinking about exactly this. I guess the opposite of well done is well intentioned. I now want you to ask yourself something in return: Please read the TAZ article (https://taz.de/Prozess-um-Vergewaltigung-in-Freiburg/!5695782/) again which you linked yourself as prove that there is no taboo with immigration and crime. This is an article about a gang rape of a 18 -year old girl by 9 Syrian refugees and 1 German man. Please read it again, but do not think of the refugees but imagine that other people were the perpetrators - lets say 9 German college students. For the crime and especially the victim it makes really no difference, does it? Do you think that the TAZ would then point out that it wasnt a gang rape (just consecutive rape), that the victim was naive (this being said by her friend) and that the accused repeatedly confirmed that she said she wanted the sex (behind a bush, injured over several hours?). that after it was over she dubiously did not go directly to a police car nearby , but went home first? The whole article is - under the guise of seeing all sides- patronizing, sexist and victim blaming. do you really think that the TAZ would write the same article about 9 college students? I don't. I think the press, all of the German media, has somehow lost its way here. I think two things are quite telling: a) you're sidestepping my question why the story you quoted only makes sense if you know that the involved are of Turkish descent and the same goes for other incidents (maybe you are too young to remember "Chaostage Hannover", but the sudden explosion of violence/vandalism in inner cities is nothing new and nothing that is explained by immigration, it's more a combination of youth+male+alcohol than anything else). The term "partygoers" was btw. coined by the police when they reported about the night, so it seems strange to hold that against the media if they use this term in their initial reporting as well. b) you are constantly shifting the goalposts! First your claim was, that it is somehow taboo, which it isn't, I've posted enough articles to prove that this is not the case. Then you claimed that the fact that it is discussed indicates a problem, which refutes your first point, and that anyway "normal" media consider it a taboo. Your definition of "normal media" apparently is FAZ, where I've linked two articles that I've found very quickly, that also refute your point. Now your new argument is okay, it gets discussed, but in this one article from a different newspaper (TAZ), you find tone and thrust of the reporting inappropriate. I'm neither going to defend that article nor am I going to indulge in your speculative "what if"-reporting, this is a fruitless exercise where you make up an imaginary article in your mind, that just confirms your pre-existing opinion. It is just another attempt to shift the goalposts yet again, but now into the realm of imagination where finally you cannot be proven wrong. I have included this article to show you very clearly that the so called "taboo" does not exist and that even very left-wing publications like TAZ do mention it. You can agree or disagree with the way TAZ is reporting but there are plenty of other newspapers (and I did link another one in my other post, just for comparison) that do discuss immigration, also in relation to crime. Some may find the editorial choices of right-wing newpapers like Cicero appaling, others don't like the way TAZ is reporting, but there is a wide diversity of journalistic expression and discussion going on. So the claim that there is a taboo about this in German media is objectively false and if it is your subjective impression, then I would recommend a wider choice of newspapers than just FAZ (although they are IMO a solid newspaper and I've shown you via the linked articles that they don't skirt around the issue). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippounet Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 21 hours ago, Altherion said: Well yes, but there's a difference between attacks on churches in general and an attack on a cathedral that is more than half a millennium old. Those things are more historical artifacts than religious ones and are generally left in peace. Credible, but factually incorrect again. About half of the cases of arson involve churches that are centuries old. The one in Orléans for instance (the one with the penises) is from the XVIth century. The Observatoire du Patrimoine Religieux (OPR) lists recent cases of arson for churches dating back to the XIth or XIVth century. There was also a fire (negligence or criminal, 'tis not sure) at the cathedral of Rennes just a month and a half ago (just in case you want to pivot to the "cathedral" label ). And again, thinking about it for two or three minutes might help one remember that France has an insane amount of old monuments. We have about 100,000 religious buildings most of which are centuries old. I can't even give you precise statistics because it seems no one knows how many of these we have, the OPR has only listed a bit more than 70,000 of them! What is certain is that they face degradations all the time, there are hundreds of cases every year, most of them graffitis. And yes, some do say "Allahu Akbar," but many are also symbols of other movements like the circle-A of anarchism, the Nazi swastika, or even nationalist and satanist slogans... etc. The original problem is that you're desperately trying to base a narrative on your idea of the way French people should see their religious monuments, but that idea is already wrong to begin with. In fact, given your stubborness in the face of actual data on this from a local, one has to wonder just why exactly you want this case to be seen as exceptional or extraordinary: there are literally hundreds of cases every year, but that one case where the culprit is a Rwandan guy really has to be something special for some reason... 21 hours ago, Altherion said: But it's not about factories or unions -- as long as there are jobs (of any sort) it is advantageous to the capitalist to have more competition for those jobs. And yes, it's far from the only factor in making the world better for capitalists, but every little bit helps. But what I'm saying is that it's not the only factor leading to competition for jobs. Like, I don't see why today, in 2020, you'd want to blame immigration or immigrants for unemployment rather than outsourcing/relocation and automation, when it's obvious that these two are far more consequential today in almost every single Western country. However you put it, the bottom line is that there's no way immigration is an existential threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 I have been surprised that nobody has discussed the recent report contradicting a UN report about ever-increasing population. The UN says we'll have more than 11 B people on the planet by the end of the century, while the other report says, au contraire, be prepared for a huge difference, more than 2 B. This will cause massive problems as populations age, no one to look after the elderly and huge numbers of jobs going unfilled. Industries may have to downsize, and tax coffers will go begging for money. Population should peak at 9.7 B by 2064, they say, and then start dropping, down to 8.8 B by 2100 The report suggests the US will not be badly hit, because immigration to the US will continue (I guess they think Trump's policies won't take permanent hold), but Europe will really feel the losses as well as Japan. The top stories are from the NYT and the Economist, which you may not be able to read, so I've linked one that looks free. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/07/200715150444.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 one to look after the elderly and huge numbers of jobs going unfilled robots. then we'll have a rightwing anti-robot movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted July 31, 2020 Author Share Posted July 31, 2020 Seems as good a time as any to mention that like Sam Waterson, I am now selling robot insurance as a bulwark against the day the metal ones come for you. PM me for rates and methods of payment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 7 minutes ago, larrytheimp said: I am now selling robot insurance as a bulwark against the day the metal ones come for you. Unless such insurance entails guaranteed protection from Sarah Connor, I'm not sure how it's gonna stop a T-1000 from killing me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted July 31, 2020 Author Share Posted July 31, 2020 1 minute ago, DMC said: Unless such insurance entails guaranteed protection from Sarah Connor, I'm not sure how it's gonna stop a T-1000 from killing me. It's not about you, it's about a killer benefit for your estate. I have a couple premium policies with minimal exclusions I'd be happy to forward your way. We can expedite this process with small 4 figure down payment. I take venmo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soylent Brown Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 I mean, you guys are all idiots. People don't even matter any more. It's all about making friends with the robots. These robot guys you see day to day and you don't even say hello to? You think they give a shit about you? Look, when I buy a chocolate bar from a vending machine, I say thank you. I put my card in to pay for a train ticket: thanks very much. Fuck all of you fleshy idiots, I'm a polite young man. If our robot overlords want to spare a handful of us and I'm one of them, who am I to say no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 1 minute ago, Soylent Brown said: when I buy a chocolate bar from a vending machine, I say thank you. This is one of the funniest lines I've read in awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soylent Brown Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Just now, DMC said: This is one of the funniest lines I've read in awhile. If you know what's good for you, you'll take that back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 3 minutes ago, Soylent Brown said: If you know what's good for you, you'll take that back. I'm not too scared about them. Vending machines only kill about 2 people a year. They're the Gomer Pyle of robots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soylent Brown Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 5 minutes ago, DMC said: I'm not too scared about them. Vending machines only kill about 2 people a year. They're the Gomer Pyle of robots. More propaganda owed to the fact that Bigvendingmachine has gained control of the vast majority of media right under our noses! I don't even know why I'm bothering to reply- they probably have your IP address already: you'll be posting a mixture of gently persuasive brand suggestions and metallic tasting sex posts by Tuesday. RIP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S John Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Fragile Bird said: I have been surprised that nobody has discussed the recent report contradicting a UN report about ever-increasing population. The UN says we'll have more than 11 B people on the planet by the end of the century, while the other report says, au contraire, be prepared for a huge difference, more than 2 B. This will cause massive problems as populations age, no one to look after the elderly and huge numbers of jobs going unfilled. Industries may have to downsize, and tax coffers will go begging for money. Population should peak at 9.7 B by 2064, they say, and then start dropping, down to 8.8 B by 2100 The report suggests the US will not be badly hit, because immigration to the US will continue (I guess they think Trump's policies won't take permanent hold), but Europe will really feel the losses as well as Japan. The top stories are from the NYT and the Economist, which you may not be able to read, so I've linked one that looks free. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/07/200715150444.htm I know there are major societal issues with population decline and having an aging population, but this feels like good news to me? At least as one concerned with the survival and well being of the human species as a whole. When balancing the woes of an elderly society with the risks of overpopulation - especially in light of climate change, I think an 8.8B population in 2100 is way preferable to an 11B global population. The world continues to develop and the more people we have living in industrialized societies, the worse off our environment will be until we are able to shift to renewable energy sources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted July 31, 2020 Author Share Posted July 31, 2020 LMAO #bigvendingmachine Oh shit if I don't ever post again it's because my wireless router bounced a concentrated beam off my tablet and it's melting my visage into slag. But as the electromagnetic rafiation furns my face foff I am fomforted fith the knowledge my loved ones will fe fell fompenfated ****dies shrieking while soiling self**** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soylent Brown Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 RIP Larry, I will miss you. <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clueless Northman Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 49 minutes ago, Soylent Brown said: Look, when I buy a chocolate bar from a vending machine, I say thank you. I put my card in to pay for a train ticket: thanks very much. I've been trying to be nice and polite with the vending machine, but every time I want to get orange, the bloody thing gives me lemon lime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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