U.S. Politics: End Testing, Make Schools Safe Again!

[BigFatCoward]

1600. Jesus, you are fucked. It's going to be up around 3000 again in the coming weeks. 

[Larry of the Lawn]

2 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

1600. Jesus, you are fucked. It's going to be up around 3000 again in the coming weeks. 

Huh, turns out you are a numbers guy, AND you're jealous of our high score.  American Exeptionalism, mofos.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

1600. Jesus, you are fucked. It's going to be up around 3000 again in the coming weeks. 

Just wait until schools open up in a couple weeks. You ain't seen nothing yet!

[Martell Spy]

 

'I failed my fellow Americans': the white women defecting from Trump

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jul/29/women-who-voted-trump-who-regret-decision

Quote

 

“I just want to apologize to the world,” said Julie, a fraud manager from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, who asked that the Guardian not use her real name.

“I feel so guilty for having a part in voting this moron in.”

Trump clinched a narrow victory in Pennsylvania, beating Clinton by 44,292 votes. For Julie, it was a combination of concern over healthcare and distrust of Clinton that swung her towards Trump.

“I didn’t think Hillary was honest about wanting to help women,” Julie said.

“I just found her very unbelievable, and Trump kept hitting on the one thing that was important to me – decreasing healthcare costs. She did not.”

Julie, 51, has three children, two of whom have an autoimmune disease and another who has a chronic digestive disorder, while her husband was forced to stop working after becoming sick.

Her medical bills amount to $20,000 a year, and have put her deeply in debt. This year she finally managed to pay off her bills – from the year 2014.

“American healthcare just sucks, and he said he was going to change it, so I wouldn’t have such huge co-pays,” Julie said.

“By the second year he was in office, I realized my deductible didn’t go down at all. There was no change, whatsoever, my deductible was still astronomically high. And nothing was being done.”

 

 

[DMC]

1 hour ago, larrytheimp said:

If the GOP is holding all the cards, then the Dems have nothing to lose by insisting on a better figure than the $200 and trying to beef up local and state aid. 

I know it's fun for you guys to all pile on anyone remotely critical of Dems, but just because they aren't the worst game in town doesn't mean they're out there getting you the best deal they possibly can.  

They won't even go to bat for their constituents on popular issues like legalizing weed, not sure why I'm supposed to think that whatever the fuck they get out of any additional covid support this week is going to be, by default, the best we could have gotten.  

Republicans are in a shit position and can't do anything without the House.  At least apply a little pressure or maybe ask for some shit even if you doubt you can get it.

Did I miss something?  What do you think the Dems are doing?  There hasn't been any deal yet - because the Dems are taking a hard line and trying to get the best deal they possibly can.  Like, has there been a change from this about 10 hours ago?

Quote

“It seems to me that Sen. McConnell really doesn’t want to get an agreement,” Speaker Nancy Pelosi said after an hour-long meeting in her office with Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin and White House chief of staff Meadows Tuesday afternoon.

The group will meet again tomorrow but Pelosi didn’t sound optimistic about reaching a deal anytime soon.

“What we’re doing now is really airing our differences — this discovery and understanding where there might be opportunity or not,” Pelosi added.

If you want to criticize the eventual compromise, fine.  But doing so before there even is a compromise just reveals your own biases.  Moreover, the Republicans can't even get their shit together and align with their own leadership's proposal.  BTW, that includes McConnell's objection to the FBI money we were discussing earlier.

 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

I’m just watching Trump’s so-called Task Force press conference, the one without a task force, just Trump, and he said he ordered federal forces to protect the court house in Portland, because anarchists wanted to burn it down.

If he hadn’t taken the action he took, he said, all you’d have left by now would a billion dollar burnt out shell.

if Portland can have a billion dollar courthouse, surely the FBI can have a $2 B hq, right?

Is it possible that Trump thinks he's a billionaire just because he's really, really bad with numbers?

[GrimTuesday]

2 minutes ago, DMC said:

Did I miss something?  What do you think the Dems are doing?  There hasn't been any deal yet - because the Dems are taking a hard line and trying to get the best deal they possibly can.  Like, has there been a change from this about 10 hours ago?

If you want to criticize the eventual compromise, fine.  But doing so before there even is a compromise just reveals your own biases.  Moreover, the Republicans can't even get their shit together and align with their own leadership's proposal.  BTW, that includes McConnell's objection to the FBI money we were discussing earlier.

 

Hoyer literally went on CNN and basically said "Make me an offer". I'm sorry, but it should be 600 or bust. Also what a piece of shit for even entertaining the moral hazard argument at the beginning, I fucking hate Corporate Dems.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/28/politics/steny-hoyer-coronavirus-stimulus-package-cnntv/index.html

[Fragile Bird]

38 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

Is it possible that Trump thinks he's a billionaire just because he's really, really bad with numbers?

Ha! Also during every press conference, Trump keeps bragging about 50 M tests having been done in the US. Either today or yesterday he bragged that was more than all of Europe combined.

I just looked at Worldometer and started a rough count of European test numbers, and gave up after I hit 78 M. Just who the hell is feeding Trump his information? Or is it just lie, lie and lie again. I’m surprised CNN didn’t fact check the number.

I think I figured out why the US is still adding so many cases, though. Trump also mentioned that half the tests were done with the rapid test, and from what I understand the rapid tests have failure rates of up to 50% or even more. So if, possibly, 12.5 M people were told they were negative when they were actually positive, a helluva lot of Covid cases had a chance to spread around.

eta: I looked at the numbers again, and if you back out Russia’s 27 M tests, it gets closer, but I still got to over 55 M done in Europe.

And the world total is about to hit 17 M, it was just the other week I was watching it hit 8 M. 

[Derfel Cadarn]

2 hours ago, karaddin said:

Yeah that's a much better video of it, thanks. Even just from the first one - people literally piling into the van on top of someone pinning them to the floor of it doesn't look anything like due process to me. And anyone that thinks this isn't too worrying as the people [that we know of] in Portland have wound up being released after trying to scare them is deluding themselves, there is a very clear line for where this shit leads from history and its not good

 

Robin who used to post here saw this coming. I remember her prepping to move to Ireland

[DMC]

32 minutes ago, GrimTuesday said:

Hoyer literally went on CNN and basically said "Make me an offer". I'm sorry, but it should be 600 or bust. Also what a piece of shit for even entertaining the moral hazard argument at the beginning, I fucking hate Corporate Dems.

From the link:

Quote

"Look, it's not $600 or bust. ... (House Speaker Nancy) Pelosi said the other day, which I thought was a great line: 'We don't have red lines, we have values.' We're going into these negotiations with values," Hoyer, a Maryland Democrat, told CNN's John Berman on "New Day."

He continued: "To say that $600 or nothing, no, that's not where we are. We're prepared to discuss this. But we're also not prepared, however, to let down the American people, to let down the states, the cities, the local governments who hire people, who are meeting this pandemic's crisis, including health personnel."

My lord, what a sellout!  Gimme a break.  The country is in crisis and he has to deal with these fucks.  You think you could do better?  Taking a hardline of $600 or bust will just mean nobody gets anything and exacerbate the suffering of those that need aid.  When the GOP controls the presidency and the Senate, you're going to have to deal with them.  That's simply (and obviously) the reality.  All Hoyer was signaling there is that the Dems are open to negotiations instead of being the ones that are holding up helping everybody that is in dire need of assistance.

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, DMC said:

From the link:

My lord, what a sellout!  Gimme a break.  The country is in crisis and he has to deal with these fucks.  You think you could do better?  Taking a hardline of $600 or bust will just mean nobody gets anything and exacerbate the suffering of those that need aid.  When the GOP controls the presidency and the Senate, you're going to have to deal with them.  That's simply (and obviously) the reality.  All Hoyer was signaling there is that the Dems are open to negotiations instead of being the ones that are holding up helping everybody that is in dire need of assistance.

I don't understand why House Dems are even talking about compromise until the Senate passes their offer. Pass the bill, then we can talk. 

The fact that isn't the mantra coming from House leaders is concerning, especially considering they haven't had this much leverage since Trump was elected.

ETA: My concerns having been noted, I'm somewhat encouraged that Democratic leaders are pushing back (WaPo) on McConnell's bullshit "red line" liability waivers.

[Guest]

55 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Ha! Also during every press conference, Trump keeps bragging about 50 M tests having been done in the US. Either today or yesterday he bragged that was more than all of Europe combined.

I just looked at Worldometer and started a rough count of European test numbers, and gave up after I hit 78 M. Just who the hell is feeding Trump his information? Or is it just lie, lie and lie again. I’m surprised CNN didn’t fact check the number.

I think I figured out why the US is still adding so many cases, though. Trump also mentioned that half the tests were done with the rapid test, and from what I understand the rapid tests have failure rates of up to 50% or even more. So if, possibly, 12.5 M people were told they were negative when they were actually positive, a helluva lot of Covid cases had a chance to spread around.

eta: I looked at the numbers again, and if you back out Russia’s 27 M tests, it gets closer, but I still got to over 55 M done in Europe.

And the world total is about to hit 17 M, it was just the other week I was watching it hit 8 M. 

I think his niece said it best, that he believes every word that he says, even when he believes the exact opposite when he says that an hour later.

And the rapid response tests could be a problem, but another factor is that it's still really fucking hard to get tested. People are waiting in line for hours just about everywhere. On Friday of last week, I called to some testing places that took appointments, and the earliest slot available was tomorrow. If I'd actually been sick, what good would a test 5 days later do? It's fucking absurd.

[GrimTuesday]

3 minutes ago, DMC said:

From the link:

My lord, what a sellout!  Gimme a break.  The country is in crisis and he has to deal with these fucks.  You think you could do better?  Taking a hardline of $600 or bust will just mean nobody gets anything and exacerbate the suffering of those that need aid.  When the GOP controls the presidency and the Senate, you're going to have to deal with them.  That's simply (and obviously) the reality.  All Hoyer was signaling there is that the Dems are open to negotiations instead of being the ones that are holding up helping everybody that is in dire need of assistance.

There is a world of difference between holding up a deal because you're trying to make sure people actually get the assistance they need, and because you want to be a petty bitch. The extended unemployment is overwhelmingly popular, we are in the position of strength here and the Republicans know it. I don't disagree that he is signaling that they are open to negotiation, my issue is how he does it. Your opening gambit should not be

Quote

"To say that $600 or nothing, no, that's not where we are. We're prepared to discuss this...

Just coming out and say that we're flexible before the Republicans have even passed a bill, that makes us look weak. you can't already be ceding ground before the opposition makes their play. Republicans are projecting strength and confidence, but I guarantee they are shitting themselves behind the scenes because they know if they misplay this, they are going to make their electoral odds worse, and if you're a Democrat, the attack ads write themselves.

Obviously it is imperative that this bill be passed quickly and is robust as possible, but when you acknowledge the moral hazard and then come out with a weak statement, I'm sorry, but I'm not going to trust you.

[karaddin]

1 hour ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Robin who used to post here saw this coming. I remember her prepping to move to Ireland

Yeah at some point since 2016 I apologised to her for my previously optimistic view of things, she said not to worry and wished I'd been right. Feels a bit of deja vu since I've now got more than a small dose of that.

[DMC]

31 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

I don't understand why House Dems are even talking about compromise until the Senate passes their offer. Pass the bill, then we can talk. 

I don't think it's a bad idea to portray your public position as the party that is eager to get something done right ASAP.  Emphasizing you're willing to compromise and the other side is not is usually a smart tactic, but especially in these urgent times.

24 minutes ago, GrimTuesday said:

you can't already be ceding ground before the opposition makes their play.

What's the alternative?  If he says what I think you're suggesting he should have - "we will not pass a bill unless it extends the $600 benefit" - then the GOP gets to cite that as the Dems being obstructionist as an excuse to continue to delay.  It's literally giving them exactly what they want.  I think your conception of negotiations is entirely ass backwards.

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, DMC said:

I don't think it's a bad idea to portray your public position as the party that is eager to get something done right ASAP.  Emphasizing you're willing to compromise and the other side is not is usually a smart tactic, but especially in these urgent times.

I think it's good to emphasize that something must and will be passed, and that compromise isn't off the table, but I think Pelosi's statement on the HEROES Act back when it was passed (that it's Democrats' starting point for negotiations) should probably suffice until the Senate gets its shit together.

I don't agree, however, that one side should make overtures towards concessions until the other side puts their offer on the table. House Dems appearing to back off their starting negotiating position without a corresponding offer makes little strategic sense, especially when voters are far more likely to blame Republicans for the current state of play than they are Democrats, at this point.

Would I like to see Democrats twist the knife? Absolutely. But having a united front at this point is vital, especially when Republicans not up for election are making their hopefully soon-to-be-former colleagues' lives more difficult by their faux-outrage over deficit spending.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Robin who used to post here saw this coming. I remember her prepping to move to Ireland

I remember that too, unfortunately. What a fucking goddamn mess.

[DMC]

3 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

I don't agree, however, that one side should make overtures towards concessions until the other side puts their offer on the table.

Except, the other side literally has put their offer on the table.  I don't get complaining about talking about negotiations just because the Senate hasn't passed anything yet.  It technically really doesn't matter if the Senate passes anything.  Then it'd just go to conference anyway.  I don't see anything wrong with that process being expedited.

[GrimTuesday]

30 minutes ago, DMC said:

I don't think it's a bad idea to portray your public position as the party that is eager to get something done right ASAP.  Emphasizing you're willing to compromise and the other side is not is usually a smart tactic, but especially in these urgent times.

What's the alternative?  If he says what I think you're suggesting he should have - "we will not pass a bill unless it extends the $600 benefit" - then the GOP gets to cite that as the Dems being obstructionist as an excuse to continue to delay.  It's literally giving them exactly what they want.  I think your conception of negotiations is entirely ass backwards.

I did not say that they had had to say 600 or bust, just that as far as an opening salvo this showed weakness. If it were me, I'd first send some who hasn't hasn't spent most of his career as a toady for big business, and second I'd say something more along the lines of the following

"The American people are suffering right now and the Republicans are already torpedoing these negotiations with a laughably inadequate bill (insert talking about how great the HEROES Act was and how long the ball has been in McConn's court here). We are will be unyielding in pursuit of the best deal for everyone whether they live in a red or blue state. We are all in this together and I hope my friends in the other side of the aisle remember there are lives at stake"

Right there you have signaled you are the ones negotiating in good faith, you offer evidence that you were the ones who passed a second bill months ago, you add inclusive language to say that you are working on behalf of all Americans, and finally sticking a knife in the backs of republicans by painting them as uncaring if they do not play ball. You have not ceded any ground and you communicated that you are at the table. Hoyer did not go out there and talk off the top of his dome, he went on knowing what he was going to say to that question.

Also as far as this bill, remember the Republicans are putting in blanket liability protections in there so that their pals don't get the pants sued off them for their gross negligence in the course of the pandemic. If I were in charge and they wanted that, they would have to bleed.

[DMC]

2 minutes ago, GrimTuesday said:

"The American people are suffering right now and the Republicans are already torpedoing these negotiations with a laughably inadequate bill (insert talking about how great the HEROES Act was and how long the ball has been in McConn's court here). We are will be unyielding in pursuit of the best deal for everyone whether they live in a red or blue state. We are all in this together and I hope my friends in the other side of the aisle remember there are lives at stake"

Quote

He continued: "To say that $600 or nothing, no, that's not where we are. We're prepared to discuss this. But we're also not prepared, however, to let down the American people, to let down the states, the cities, the local governments who hire people, who are meeting this pandemic's crisis, including health personnel."

I really don't see much difference in the two.  Seems more like you just wanna complain about Hoyer because he's a moderate Dem.