Is Stannis turning more and more into Napoleon?

[Trigger Warning]

15 minutes ago, Tikhunt said:

I think he's one of the few characters who we read who actively takes part in a long campaign.

Tywin doesn't seem to be that great as a military figure, he doesn't seem to be able to outmach Robb, and his most notable victory, the Blackwater, seems to be mostly Tyrion and the Tyrells victory but with Tywin gaining the most prestige from it. 

Robb seemed very good as a commander from what we see as well as knowing when to take the tactical advice he receives from others to heart, and is probably the most worthy of being compare to old Bonaparte just from how he commands individual engagements, but his campaign didn't really last long. 

Balon doesn't seem to have made many actual plans for waging war, instead leaving the individual captains to make the actual decisions or just declaring war and hoping for profit. The Ironborn as a whole seem quite capable and I don't think Balon himself is an idiot or bad at war, just not hands on. 

Renly seemed to know what he was doing but died before being able to show off what he could achieve. 

Stannis by default has the longest list of military engagements to draw from and so I can understand that comparitively he looks good. 

 

I wouldn't really say he's taken part in a long campaign, he's been at war throughout the War of Five Kings but his Northern and Southern campaign are two distinct entities and both times his intention was to march straight at his end goal damn the consequences once he acquired some men. Like I said, the guy seems to be competent enough utilising his men on the field of battle but nothing he has done, including being crushed on the Blackwater suggests he's some kind of military genius or even a particularly good strategist. 

Also just for the sake of argument how does Stannis have a better or longer record than Tywin? 

• Tywin fought in the War of Ninepenny kings 
• Defeated 2 powerful rebellious vassals 
• Tricked Aerys into opening the gates of King's Landing but also captured the citadel 
• Commanded alongside Robert in the Greyjoy Rebellion, as did Stannis 
• Defeated the Riverlords in the opening stages of the Wo5K
• Defeated the main body of Robb's army at the Green Fork
• Defeated Stannis on the Blackwater 
  
   

Robb tricked him and pulled of a daring attack, if that diminishes Tywin's record so greatly then surely Stannis being smashed on the Blackwater does the same for him. Tywin barely even had chance to contend with Robb, he had to sit at Harrenhal to be close enough to relieve King's Landing then Robb's magical wolf finds a secret path into the Westerlands, how is this Tywin's failure rather than Robb's luck that's the governing factor here. Again I don't even think this record paints Tywin as anything other than competent, no one in ASOIAF has a particularly long nor gleaming record and Stannis' record certainly isn't that shiny either. 

[Tikhunt]

1 minute ago, Trigger Warning said:

 

I wouldn't really say he's taken part in a long campaign, he's been at war throughout the War of Five Kings but his Northern and Southern campaign are two distinct entities and both times his intention was to march straight at his end goal damn the consequences once he acquired some men. Like I said, the guy seems to be competent enough utilising his men on the field of battle but nothing he has done, including being crushed on the Blackwater suggests he's some kind of military genius or even a particularly good strategist. 

Also just for the sake of argument how does Stannis have a better or longer record than Tywin? 

• Tywin fought in the War of Ninepenny kings 
• Defeated 2 powerful rebellious vassals 
• Tricked Aerys into opening the gates of King's Landing but also captured the citadel 
• Commanded alongside Robert in the Greyjoy Rebellion, as did Stannis 
• Defeated the Riverlords in the opening stages of the Wo5K
• Defeated the main body of Robb's army at the Green Fork
• Defeated Stannis on the Blackwater 
  
   

Robb tricked him and pulled of a daring attack, if that diminishes Tywin's record so greatly then surely Stannis being smashed on the Blackwater does the same for him. Tywin barely even had chance to contend with Robb, he had to sit at Harrenhal to be close enough to relieve King's Landing then Robb's magical wolf finds a secret path into the Westerlands, how is this Tywin's failure rather than Robb's luck that's the governing factor here. Again I don't even think this record paints Tywin as anything other than competent, no one in ASOIAF has a particularly long nor gleaming record and Stannis' record certainly isn't that shiny either. 

I don't particularly think that Stannis is a military genius, I just can understand why readers would get that impression as he's one of the only characters that seems to be at war a lot on-page or at least have engagements happen during the books. Tywin for example has a long record but we either don't see these happen or they aren't necessarily indicative of his skills as a military leader and more as a political one. I have no doubt that if we had constant access to Tywins military enterprises through someone close to him at all times in the same way we do for Stannis, through Davos, and Robb, through Caitlyn, then he'd get lauded as really good. 

Part of the problem with GRRM's writing style is that the battles aren't important or shown in great detail and so what little we do get makes those characters seem particularly capable in comparison. 

[Eltharion21]

On 7/27/2020 at 8:41 PM, R2D said:

Stannis isn't half the general Napoleon is.

Maybe, but Napoleon isn't half a man Stannis is , and yes it's a height joke.

[HoodedCrow]

It’s hard to think of a better General than Napoleon. He did lose in many ways, however. Leonid Tolstoy included essays in War and Peace...a book illustrating war with Napoleon. He is quite biased, but talks a lot (!)about how the great man theory is incorrect.
Lets see, Stannis wants to be king and thinks he is entitled. He has a frozen death march in the snow with supply line problems. They both have horses dying around them as they are very difficult to feed and look after. Melisandre seems to be unduly influencing Stannis, unlike Napoleon. Napoleon did not spawn a demon assassin. Stannis, though, also makes mistakes and loses his navy. They not very similar. The upcoming battles will probably show great tactics. I would lay money on that. Moscow/  Winterfell are not chosen for the same reasons, but the mistakes are familiar. Maybe somebody here could give details on Trafalgar and Waterloo. I have only literary ideas about those. One of the books is Vanity Fair. Julius Caesar was the best General, in my so humble opinion, and Colleen McCullough made a case for Marius, or Sulla. She doesn’t think much of Pompey. You may not like the source, but she did her homework.

[R2D]

On 8/3/2020 at 6:14 AM, Eltharion21 said:

Maybe, but Napoleon isn't half a man Stannis is , and yes it's a height joke.

Ah very funny.

[Alyn Oakenfist]

On 8/3/2020 at 3:44 AM, Eltharion21 said:

Maybe, but Napoleon isn't half a man Stannis is , and yes it's a height joke.

Hell in terms of height I think even Oberyin is ahead of Napoleon

[Rose of Red Lake]

Maybe there's something there with him being exiled to an island (Dragonstone/Elba) before returning to invade. And dont his plans involve something with an island in the middle of a lake? This may be his Saint Helena. 

[Curled Finger]

Stannis is too tall to be Napoleon.

[Texas Hold Em]

Stannis is in his thirties and a grown man.  Stubborn too.  He is not changing.  His battle plans may be adapting to the northern environment but the man himself is the same.  He might be coming to his Waterloo.