King17 Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 Lord commanders of the watch are supposed to serve for life but suppose they become mentally unsound like wynton stout can they be removed from office? Clarification I mean removed by legal means not by force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roswell Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 The commanders are elected. It is not an inherited office. I would think they can be removed with sufficient vote. They can step down too. Jon's case was unique. Those who disagreed with him no longer had the nerves to stand in his way after his public killing of Janos Slynt. He made it impossible for Bowen Marsh and the officers to remove him because he got the wildlings on his side. It was even worse because he would still attack the Boltons even if the officers of the watch had voted him out of office. Nothing was going to stop Jon from rescuing his sister except to assassinate him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 13 hours ago, King17 said: Lord commanders of the watch are supposed to serve for life but suppose they become mentally unsound like wynton stout can they be removed from office? Define "removed" lol. Yes, the nights king was "removed" 13 hours ago, Roswell said: The commanders are elected. It is not an inherited office. I would think they can be removed with sufficient vote. I dont. Especially since elections can last for months. Its always (since recent times) the commander of Shadow, the commander of Eastwatch and whomever CB sends that runs for election. I dont see how the LC would be cool with jeopardizing the safety of the wall, and his seat, by allowing early elections 13 hours ago, Roswell said: They can step down too. Citation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 There's no indication that they can't be removed and there's no indication that it is a "till death" post. The only other Lord Commander who is elected / appointed is the LC of the KG and he serves at the King's leisure. I don't think there's enough to say definitely either way, but generally once an election has been held it can be challenged, either by a predetermined term limit or another vote. Practically though the LC would have to be unable to keep his office through force of will or of arms if necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 I mean, Bowen Marsh removed Jon Snow from office. For that matter Jeor Mormont was similarly removed from office. Jests aside, Bloodraven was Lord Commander. The exact circumstances of his departure from the wall aren't known, but it's not impossible he stepped down. That's the only case I can think of regarding a Lord Commander not serving for life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buried Treasure Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 Bloodraven could have been considered 'lost on a ranging', though whether that would count as stepping down would depend on whether he left the Wall intending to return or knew he would never go back. A LC losing his mental capabilities like Waymar Stout might not have been formally removed, if he had a strong Second to actually fulfill his duties. Much as Grand Maester Walgrave no longer has duties even though we saw in the AFFC prologue he has kept his rank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCannuck Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 Well, I would assume that there have been lord commanders who have become unfit for duty due to age or illness. Looking at the case of Maester Aemon, it's plain to see that alzheimers, dementia, etc. exist in Westeros. I can't see such commanders being kept in power as it would jeopardize the entire watch. The same goes for the Kingsguard. It would be impractical to have a guardian who is losing his eyesight or hearing due to advanced age. Or who could barely stand under his own power. I think the "for life" part of these vows just means "until you're unable to do so". With there having been nearly 1000 lord commanders in the history of the watch, I'd think it's a pretty safe bet that a few have been removed from power with a vote due to one reason or another. It never explicitly states that this has occurred. But neither does it explicitly state it hasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commentator Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 On 7/28/2020 at 1:53 AM, King17 said: Lord commanders of the watch are supposed to serve for life but suppose they become mentally unsound like wynton stout can they be removed from office? Clarification I mean removed by legal means not by force. The papacy is a life time office but Benedict stepped down. The question one might ask is can the lord commander be forcibly removed from office. Force here means non-violent. Like an emergency vote among the members of the order. I would guess so. The watch is more democratic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyser1 Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 Nothing to suggest they cannot, if lords can abdicate. However, they swore a vow to the Watch - so they still would be members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowen 747 Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 1 hour ago, nyser1 said: Nothing to suggest they cannot, if lords can abdicate. However, they swore a vow to the Watch - so they still would be members. Agreed. They can step down but they will never be able to leave the Watch. They just get a different assignment. But no to leaving the Watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R2D Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 Sure they can. They're Lord Commander by popular mandate do once they lose the support of the majority someone else will take their place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRANDON GREYSTARK Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 On 7/28/2020 at 1:53 AM, King17 said: Lord commanders of the watch are supposed to serve for life but suppose they become mentally unsound like wynton stout can they be removed from office? Clarification I mean removed by legal means not by force. If a king can be removed by a Great Council , so can the commander . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S. D Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 Yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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