Watch, Watched, Watching: Strange Times

[williamjm]

2 hours ago, DMC said:

Well, this touches on the alternative interpretation - that he was dreaming and/or dead even before the start of the film's events.  I like that one more than he got stuck in dreamworld once he organized a team to go in there.  But thinking about the movie in that case, just means the whole exercise was about getting him, I dunno, out of purgatory?

I think on rewatching the film that seemed like the most likely interpretation, that even the scenes where we think he's planning the heist are in a dreamworld. I'm not sure I find that interpretation to be the most satisfying dramatically because it makes much of the film feel a bit pointless but I suspect it was what Nolan was going for. I think at times the film is maybe trying to be a bit too clever for its own good but I still enjoy it even if I don't think it's Nolan's best.

[RumHam]

I never really undersood the complaint that a self contained movie was "pointless." If it's part of a franchise ok maybe. but if we are never revisiting that world again why does the fact that what we saw didn't really happen in a fake world matter? 

I remember watching

The Usual Suspects

with my brother and he felt the ending invalidated the entire movie because "none of it happened, it was all made up." 

[DMC]

22 minutes ago, RumHam said:

I never really undersood the complaint that a self contained movie was "pointless." If it's part of a franchise ok maybe. but if we are never revisiting that world again why does the fact that what we saw didn't really happen in a fake world matter? 

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

4 minutes ago, DMC said:

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

Perhaps someone got too deep into character to hit that note...

[HoodedCrow]

Introduce your brother to post Modernism. Everything we know is made up, to some extent. Cognitive psychology is loaded with blind spot type tests. Science is a system for checking our assumptions. We have to function using assumptions. Trump is the devil to me! I can’t prove that he isn’t the devil. Most of his actions are duplicitous and malign. He appears to control a large population’s thinking, safety, and money habits. I know of no one else who lies that much, and Prince of Lies doesn’t seem like a stretch. Cant think of a more callous person, except that he is thin skinned in prideful ways. It’s a useful hypothesis.

[RumHam]

14 minutes ago, HoodedCrow said:

Introduce your brother to post Modernism. Everything we know is made up, to some extent. Cognitive psychology is loaded with blind spot type tests. Science is a system for checking our assumptions. We have to function using assumptions. Trump is the devil to me! I can’t prove that he isn’t the devil. Most of his actions are duplicitous and malign. He appears to control a large population’s thinking, safety, and money habits. I know of no one else who lies that much, and Prince of Lies doesn’t seem like a stretch. Cant think of a more callous person, except that he is thin skinned in prideful ways. It’s a useful hypothesis.

Sadly, he's probably dead. He escaped a mental health facility about six years ago and hasn't turned up since. Not the type to make it outside in an unstructured environment with no resources. 

Anyway I get the feeling I'm already subscribed to your newsletter. Fuck Trump. I love the slight contrast Kanye has added to the race. They both suffer from narsaccistic personality disorders one just has better handlers and the backing of the republican establishment. 

 

[ithanos]

15 hours ago, DMC said:

Nolan's trilogy brings a grenade launcher to Indy's gun fight.  Spielberg could never make a mindfuck of a movie like Memento.  Prestige is incredibly underrated and probably in my top 10 favorite movies of all time.  The ending - the prestige - makes me cry every time.  Inception obviously is controversial but I love it.  Interstellar was kinda meh, but still one of the better imitations of 2001.   Dunkirk is vastly superior to SPR as a war film.

Absolutely my favourite Nolan film. I don't cry at the end - but...

Spoiler

 

the idea of Angier killing himself at every performance to extend his art is baffling and exasperating to me. I always reflect back on his conversation with Tesla.

Nikola Tesla: Mr. Angier, have you considered the cost of such a machine?

Robert Angier: Price is not an object.

Nikola Tesla: Perhaps not, but have you considered the *cost*?

Robert Angier: I'm not sure I follow.

Nikola Tesla: Go home. Forget this thing. I can recognize an obsession, no good will come of it.

Robert Angier: Why, haven't good come of your obsessions?

Nikola Tesla: Well, at first. But I followed them too long. I'm their slave... and one day they'll choose to destroy me.

Robert Angier: If you understand an obsession, then you know you won't change my mind.

 

 

15 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

Hitchcock wants a word. Or two. 

In a list of directors who have mastered the art then Hitchcock sits rightly at the top of most notable lists - I don't disagree. But in a quarantine scenario of indeterminate duration, say 2-3 years+, then I got to mix it up more, so Spielberg still holds court there for me. Perhaps blame it on the Blockbuster diet, and being akin to the standard Western diet - I'm drawn too readily to saccharine and processed fare.  

 

12 hours ago, DMC said:

Yes, I besmirched Die Hard and Predator as being labeled "two of the best films ever."  I mean, they're classics in their own way, but you gotta be an invested dudebro to think those are even remotely in the vicinity of the best films ever.

I don't even want to entertain comparing Jaws to the first two Godfathers.  I hope this wasn't a serious statement.

I like this distinction. Classics tend to be re-watchable at any time. Greats often require being in the right receptive mood for optimum appreciation, which invariably means lengthy periods in between viewings.

-------

Watched First Blood last night. It still holds up as a low brow decent watch best enjoyed with a couple of beers (Ok, make that more than a couple) and it has proven, for me anyway, to be the most enduring of the Rambo series. I have no interest in ever watching the others again but I could watch this again in a few years time. Brian Dennehy held almost all the acting chops in this movie (I might have to rewatch Cocoon for nostalgia - to see Dennehy and Wilfred Brimley onscreen together). His scenes with Richard Crenna are amusing as fuck, mostly because of Crenna's unique delivery. I'm not sure if he deliberately overacted but it was a testament to Dennehys composure not to burst out laughing. To Crenna's credit, he later sent up his Trautman character to great hilarity in Hot Shots: Part Deux! 

 

[polishgenius]

5 hours ago, RumHam said:

I never really undersood the complaint that a self contained movie was "pointless." If it's part of a franchise ok maybe. but if we are never revisiting that world again why does the fact that what we saw didn't really happen in a fake world matter? 

 

 

For me it depends on how the stakes are set up. It's completely possible for a film to end on 'none of it was real' and still have weight, if you do it right, but Inception grounds its emotional stakes in what Cobb believes to be reality actually being reality. Making it not real means none of what we were told the stakes and previous tragedies etc of the story were ever actually there.

[Annara Snow]

14 hours ago, polishgenius said:

Yeah the top doesn't spin for long enough to make it definitely not fall, it's just, for me, a pointless bit of uncertainty.

The problem is abetted by the fact that we do see the top fall earlier in the movie, so even if the ending is a dream, it's only the ending and all of the other scenes in reality were in reality (ie no possibility that Mal might have been right all along which would have at least had some setup), or his top is unreliable because it wasn't his totem therefore not just introducing uncertainty but removing any certainty from the movie whatsoever.

The ending really only works for me if the top falls, which is why the ambiguous shot irrirates me so much.
 

That sounds pretty likely. I'm also told there's similarities to the 60s film Last Year at Marienbad but I've never got round to seeing that. Also obvious comparisons to Total Recall (which I view as a much better film tbqh) and more broadly to Satoshi Kon's Paprika and Millenium Actress.

I don't think any of it is plaigarism though just to be clear (except Marienbad since I can't say for that, though the plot synopsis doesn't seem that similar.

 

Ii've seen Last Year in Marienbad. It has a strong surrealistic element. The plot is not similar to Inception, and I wouldn't say those two are particularly similar. They just both have the same theme of not being able to tell what is reallity and what is a dream, but that's a very common theme in art. Inception didn't introduce something that has never been done before, but the way that theme is exploed is different in each of these works. 

[HoodedCrow]

Sorry About your brother RumHam.  

Kanye has some extra problems. He doesn’t seem malicious but I don’t know much about him. Wait, Taylor Swift Grammy acceptance, that was mean. Sigh, don’t make me listen to Kanye.

[Zorral]

Really enjoying so far (episode 6 tonight) the first season of Amazon Prime's The Boys.  However, within the context of this discussion one can never forget that this series is meta from first to last, top to bottom, because without the metastasis of superheroes, comix and graphic novels, and pop culture into every nook and cranny of our post modern lives, this series wouldn't, couldn't exist.  Yet I am enjoying this series, whereas there are very few series and films with supes that I do, and I don't like comix or graphic novels either (for one thing, my vision can't cope with either of those).

 

[Luzifer's right hand]

I watched the 2nd season of Fleabag in one go yesterday. Just awesome. 

[Veltigar]

On 8/8/2020 at 1:22 PM, Ramsay B. said:

^^^^^ One of the worst posts I’ve ever seen here. Veltigar brings the heat.

I just love how there are like three whole pages of people reacting, counter-reacting and adding more controversial opinions into the mix  Mission accomplished 

On 8/8/2020 at 1:27 PM, Tywin et al. said:

Them there is fighting words, but thank you for agreeing that ET is trash. Well, maybe not trash, but it is so overrated. 

Also, Hook is what you're gonna go with? 

 

I mean, Robin Williams is great  But point taken and I'm pretty happy to cede it. I remember it as a good kids movie, but it's been a long time. 

On 8/8/2020 at 1:59 PM, DMC said:

 

Heh...alright, let's do this.  @Veltigar has inspired me. 

I get that a lot 

On 8/8/2020 at 1:59 PM, DMC said:

 Spielberg could never make a mindfuck of a movie like Memento.  Prestige is incredibly underrated and probably in my top 10 favorite movies of all time.  The ending - the prestige - makes me cry every time.  Inception obviously is controversial but I love it.  Interstellar was kinda meh

I can agree with all of these. My love for the Prestige is not in the same category, but I'd definitely support it as a great film. Otherwise spot on description!

 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 hours ago, Veltigar said:

I mean, Robin Williams is great  But point taken and I'm pretty happy to cede it. I remember it as a good kids movie, but it's been a long time. 

Its best selling point is it has the character every boy wanted to be.

[Nictarion]

Rewatching Almost Famous. I miss Philip Seymour Hoffman.  

[Veltigar]

11 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Its best selling point is it has the character every boy wanted to be.

Wendy? 

[Fez]

I finally dropped my Netflix subscription after, I think, 11 years. I've barely used it in years and there just wasn't much of anything that interested me on it. I signed up for ad-free Hulu instead and I've started watching Killing Eve.

Good show. I don't know if I'll watch past the first season though. Since I'm not sure if the underlying show is that good, or if its Phoebe Waller-Bridge's writing/showrunning that makes it good, and she left after the first season.

[Heartofice]

58 minutes ago, Fez said:

Good show. I don't know if I'll watch past the first season though. Since I'm not sure if the underlying show is that good, or if its Phoebe Waller-Bridge's writing/showrunning that makes it good, and she left after the first season.

It is definitely the second option unfortunately. It really loses pretty much everything interesting about itself after she leaves. 

I don't blame you for dropping Netflix however. I am close to considering it. The percentage of shows and movies I would consider watching on there is now incredibly low. They have obviously sacrificed quantity for quality.

[aceluby]

8 hours ago, Nictarion said:

Rewatching Almost Famous. I miss Philip Seymour Hoffman.  

Along Came Polly is one of my favorite movies, only because of his scenes.

"RAIN DANCE!!!"

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Are the sequels to Naked Gun worth watching? I caught it last night and it was one of the funniest things I've ever seen. This line in particular killed me.

I also finally finished Russian Doll. I wasn't sure how they were going to pull it off, but it really did it for me. The final shot was perfect. Not sure how they can do another season though.