Tolkien 4.0 (A dark and hungry sea lion arises)

[Ser Drewy]

Also, goddamit, but I'd willingly join with Mordor to see Tolkien's notes on James Joyce. 

[Ran]

12 hours ago, Ser Drewy said:

Yeah, Carpenter does not come out of it looking good.

I feel like the fact that Carpenter was very open about his point of view in these interviews seems to go against the idea that the biography is some sort of secret character assassination, especially if no one really ever took it that way. And the claim that a biography tells you a lot about the biographer is hardly the shocking revelation that it's presented as. Of course it is.

As to Letters, CT worked with Carpenter on it, as is explicitly acknowledged on the cover and has led him to being listed as co-editor in bibliographic sources, and that came out years after Carpenter's biography... so how much animus towards Carpenter could there really have been from CT's side? If he really thought the biography was a complete botch, why was he assisting Carpenter?

 

Edited April 5, 2021 by Ran

[Zorral]

On 4/1/2021 at 5:36 AM, Ser Drewy said:

That is trippy, to say the least. 

Article about it in the Guardian, with links to the YouTubes.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/05/soviet-tv-version-lord-of-the-rings-rediscovered-after-30-years

 

[The Marquis de Leech]

I've taken the liberty of compiling the Tom Bombadil scenes from the Soviet adaptation, and adding them to the Swedish and Finnish versions, to create a quarter of an hour of adapted (non-English-language) Tom:

The Complete Tom Bombadil: 1971-1993

[The Marquis de Leech]

Sharing a crackpot theory of mine:

Ar-Pharazon might have been gay.

(I'd be very surprised if that turns up in the Amazon adaptation though).

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

I just received a 24 hour ban on Facebook for saying “Fatty Lumpkin” in a Tolkien fan group when people were claiming a pony in a painting of Tom Bombadil’s house was “Bill”.

Good grief.

Edited May 4, 2021 by Ser Scot A Ellison

[A wilding]

... and that tells you all you need to know about Facebook in one post.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

9 minutes ago, A wilding said:

... and that tells you all you need to know about Facebook in one post.

I’m still laughing about it.  If anyone wants confirmation that AI is still really weak... this is it.

[Derfel Cadarn]

16 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I just received a 24 hour ban on Facebook for saying “Fatty Lumpkin” in a Tolkien fan group when people were claiming a pony in a painting of Tom Bombadil’s house was “Bill”.

Good grief.

“Horizontally Ample Lumpkin”

[mcbigski]

On 5/4/2021 at 10:36 AM, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I just received a 24 hour ban on Facebook for saying “Fatty Lumpkin” in a Tolkien fan group when people were claiming a pony in a painting of Tom Bombadil’s house was “Bill”.

Your words are hateful.  Body Positive Lumpkin please.  Clearly we need a modern translation for LoTR.  Feel kind of dirty even typing the name, what with the inherent patriarchy and authoritarianism the title celebrates.

[HexMachina]

8 hours ago, mcbigski said:

Your words are hateful.  Body Positive Lumpkin please.  Clearly we need a modern translation for LoTR.  Feel kind of dirty even typing the name, what with the inherent patriarchy and authoritarianism the title celebrates.

Um, please, not Lumpkin. I believe the correct name is Ample Swelling

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

I have a stupid question.  Why did Isildur lead the bulk of Arnor’s troops up the Vale of Anduin rather than through the gap of Rohan?  The Gap seems like a much more natural way to lead a large force home.

If he goes that way there is no “Disaster of the Gladden Fields”.

[The hairy bear]

It's explained in the Unfinished Tales. From the first paragraphs of "The Disaster of the Gladden Fields":

After the fall of Sauron, Isildur, the son and heir of Elendil, returned to GOndor. There he assumed the Elendilmir as King of Arnor, and proclaimed his sovereigh lordship over all the Dúnedain in the North and the South; for he was a man of great pride and vigour. He remained for a year in Gondor, restoring its order and defining its bounds; but the greater part of the army of Arnor returned to Eriador by the Númenórean road torn the Fords of Isen to Fornost.

When he at last felt free to return to his own realm he was in haste, and he wished to go first to Imladris; for he had left his wife and youngest son there, and he had moreover an urgent need for the counsel of Elrond. He therefore determined to make his way north from Osgiliath up the Vales of Anduin to Cirith Forn en Andrath, the high-climbing pass of the North, that led down to Imladris. He knew the land well, for he had journeyed there often before the War of the Alliance, and had marched that way to the war with men of eastern Arnor in the company of Elrond.

 

 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

36 minutes ago, The hairy bear said:

It's explained in the Unfinished Tales. From the first paragraphs of "The Disaster of the Gladden Fields":

After the fall of Sauron, Isildur, the son and heir of Elendil, returned to GOndor. There he assumed the Elendilmir as King of Arnor, and proclaimed his sovereigh lordship over all the Dúnedain in the North and the South; for he was a man of great pride and vigour. He remained for a year in Gondor, restoring its order and defining its bounds; but the greater part of the army of Arnor returned to Eriador by the Númenórean road torn the Fords of Isen to Fornost.

When he at last felt free to return to his own realm he was in haste, and he wished to go first to Imladris; for he had left his wife and youngest son there, and he had moreover an urgent need for the counsel of Elrond. He therefore determined to make his way north from Osgiliath up the Vales of Anduin to Cirith Forn en Andrath, the high-climbing pass of the North, that led down to Imladris. He knew the land well, for he had journeyed there often before the War of the Alliance, and had marched that way to the war with men of eastern Arnor in the company of Elrond.

 

 

But why move an army over high mountain passes that would serve to slow travel.  Why not take the Gap of Rohan and stay out of the mountains altogether?

Was the Disaster of the Gladden Fields caused, in part, because Isildur wanted to go sightseeing... with an army?

I see what I missed.  Most of Arnor’s Army had already gone home... I missed that.

Edited May 11, 2021 by Ser Scot A Ellison

[Werthead]

Guy Gavriel Kay giving the 2021 Tolkien Lecture.

[Slurktan]

On 5/11/2021 at 12:38 PM, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

But why move an army over high mountain passes that would serve to slow travel.  Why not take the Gap of Rohan and stay out of the mountains altogether?

Was the Disaster of the Gladden Fields caused, in part, because Isildur wanted to go sightseeing... with an army?

I see what I missed.  Most of Arnor’s Army had already gone home... I missed that.

I believe roads and resupply.  If he wanted to go the the gap way he had to travel up the road to bree then east which is a lot longer as there is no where to resupply until Tharbad and between Tharbad and Rivendell sans road is a big swamp before he can get into the hollin stuff which is still rough trecking up to RV.  Whereas East he can hard march straight by roads to Emyn Muil east side and then north across plains to Greenwood and resupply at Lorien then north and resupply from Thranduil and cross the high pass.  The army was 400 men and all Numenoreans so hearty and able to move fast on flat terrain. 

Also there would be no reason to suspect Orc armies in the area given that he had come that way south already with Elendil/Gil Galad and Amroth/Thranduil already went north unmolested.  The orcs only attacked him because of the Ring.

[Tongue Stuck to Wall]

9 hours ago, Slurktan said:

I believe roads and resupply.  If he wanted to go the the gap way he had to travel up the road to bree then east which is a lot longer as there is no where to resupply until Tharbad and between Tharbad and Rivendell sans road is a big swamp before he can get into the hollin stuff which is still rough trecking up to RV.  Whereas East he can hard march straight by roads to Emyn Muil east side and then north across plains to Greenwood and resupply at Lorien then north and resupply from Thranduil and cross the high pass.  The army was 400 men and all Numenoreans so hearty and able to move fast on flat terrain. 

Also there would be no reason to suspect Orc armies in the area given that he had come that way south already with Elendil/Gil Galad and Amroth/Thranduil already went north unmolested.  The orcs only attacked him because of the Ring.

Not entirely.  Tolkien is clear that Sauron had already positioned orcs of the Red Hand in the northern Vales of Anduin specifically for the purpose of ambushing smaller bodies of Alliance forces traversing the area.  These orcs, overtly oblivious to the existence of the Ring and indeed to Sauron's recent "downfall," initially launched their attack in accordance with their standing orders.  There was speculation, however, the proximity of the Ring hastened the Orcs' attack and increased its savagery.

[Clueless Northman]

22 hours ago, Tongue Stuck to Wall said:

Sauron had already positioned orcs of the Red Hand in the northern Vales of Anduin specifically for the purpose of ambushing smaller bodies of Alliance forces traversing the area.  These orcs, overtly oblivious to the existence of the Ring and indeed to Sauron's recent "downfall," initially launched their attack in accordance with their standing orders.

Didn't Tolkien also state that, had Sauron still be physcially there as Dark Lord, he would've been very upset (and would've possibly eviscarated them) with his Orc officers, who basically let the Ring slip through instead of catching it for their master?

Edited May 14, 2021 by Clueless Northman

[Tongue Stuck to Wall]

6 hours ago, Clueless Northman said:

Didn't Tolkien also state that, had Sauron still be physcially there as Dark Lord, he would've been very upset (and would've possibly eviscarated them) with his Orc officers, who basically let the Ring slip through instead of catching it for their master?

Yeah, it's in end note 20 of the account: "But it was not his praise they would have won, if any had lived long enough to see his revival. No tortures would have satisfied his anger with the bungling fools who had let slip the greatest prize in Middle-earth; even though they could know nothing of the One Ring, which save to Sauron himself was known only to the Nine Ringwraiths, its slaves."

Edited May 14, 2021 by Tongue Stuck to Wall

[Arakan]

On 5/11/2021 at 6:38 PM, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

But why move an army over high mountain passes that would serve to slow travel.

Isildur didn’t actually travel with an army but more with his personal guard. AFAIK roughly 2000 men. I would imagine that traveling along the Anduin was much quicker than through Eriador. And the mountain passes to Imladris were already well established. The Misty Mountains were anyway a relative narrow alpine mountain range, it’s not like he would have crossed the Alps or the Rockies on its broadest width.