nyser1 Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 So Tywin is unable to forgive the slightest grudge against anyone for anything. During the Greyjoy rebellion, the Ironborn burned the Lannister fleet. I do not believe we hear anything further about the Lannisters and Greyjoys & he seems emotionless when discussing them politically during the WoT5k. Plothole? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steller Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 1 minute ago, nyser1 said: So Tywin is unable to forgive the slightest grudge against anyone for anything. During the Greyjoy rebellion, the Ironborn burned the Lannister fleet. I do not believe we hear anything further about the Lannisters and Greyjoys & he seems emotionless when discussing them politically during the WoT5k. Plothole? We don’t know how involved he was in the war, but given how much destruction the Ironborn endured during that war, I’m pretty sure Tywin thought they’d been punished enough. Plus, his rationale is that a defeated enemy should be allowed to kneel, or else why would they stop fighting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyser1 Posted July 29, 2020 Author Share Posted July 29, 2020 16 minutes ago, James Steller said: We don’t know how involved he was in the war, but given how much destruction the Ironborn endured during that war, I’m pretty sure Tywin thought they’d been punished enough. Plus, his rationale is that a defeated enemy should be allowed to kneel, or else why would they stop fighting? Yup, we do not know. But given that it was a surprise attack and not only a blow but a costly one (in terms of money and prestige) wouldn't you expect more of a harsh response? Not to mention that the guy who ordered it and the captains who carried it out are still alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowen 747 Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 The chance to permanently get rid of the Greyjoys came after their defeat. Robert should have sent the boys to the wall and fostered Asha with the Tarlys. Samwell needs a role model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steller Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 1 hour ago, nyser1 said: Yup, we do not know. But given that it was a surprise attack and not only a blow but a costly one (in terms of money and prestige) wouldn't you expect more of a harsh response? Not to mention that the guy who ordered it and the captains who carried it out are still alive. Tywin didn’t have the authority. Robert chose to be content with Balon kneeling. What was Tywin going to do about it? Balon’s heirs were either dead or out of his care, his fleet and castle were broken, and presumably many of his fighting men were dead. I don’t remember when Euron was banished, but once he’s gone, Tywin wouldn’t bother hunting him down, especially not into Valyria (if he did go there). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenin Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 2 hours ago, nyser1 said: So Tywin is unable to forgive the slightest grudge against anyone for anything. During the Greyjoy rebellion, the Ironborn burned the Lannister fleet. I do not believe we hear anything further about the Lannisters and Greyjoys & he seems emotionless when discussing them politically during the WoT5k. Plothole? What more could he have done?? He didn't have the power to actually force anything without Robert's leave and the Iron Islands were left broken after the Stag and Direwolf left. Balon lost three sons out of his foolishness and his own lands were ravaged. Seems check and check for Tywin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 I was always under the impression the Lannisters didn't have much to do with the Greyjoy rebellion after the destruction of the fleet. The Stormlands and North seemed to carry most of the burden of the war. Which should suit Tywin just fine. Let these other lands and lords bleed to get revenge for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steller Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 51 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said: I was always under the impression the Lannisters didn't have much to do with the Greyjoy rebellion after the destruction of the fleet. The Stormlands and North seemed to carry most of the burden of the war. Which should suit Tywin just fine. Let these other lands and lords bleed to get revenge for him. The Reach featured prominently, if I recall correctly. Also, how many Stormlords were actually there? I can’t think of a single one who wasn’t a member of House Baratheon. Sure, the royal fleet means that some stormlanders would have been there, but you can say the same about any of the kingdoms. The North is close to the Iron Islands. So are the Riverlands, Reach and the Westerlands. Are the Vale men and Stormlanders and Dornish going to send troops all that way? I wouldn’t be surprised if the eastern half of the seven kingdoms provided almost no troops to that fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Targknight Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 The 5 Kingdoms already defeated The Greyjoys. He lost his sons, and most of Iron Islands were ravaged. Tywin Lannister would viewed it enough damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyser1 Posted July 30, 2020 Author Share Posted July 30, 2020 14 hours ago, BloodyJollyRoger said: The 5 Kingdoms already defeated The Greyjoys. He lost his sons, and most of Iron Islands were ravaged. Tywin Lannister would viewed it enough damage. 20 hours ago, Lord Lannister said: I was always under the impression the Lannisters didn't have much to do with the Greyjoy rebellion after the destruction of the fleet. The Stormlands and North seemed to carry most of the burden of the war. Which should suit Tywin just fine. Let these other lands and lords bleed to get revenge for him. 21 hours ago, frenin said: What more could he have done?? He didn't have the power to actually force anything without Robert's leave and the Iron Islands were left broken after the Stag and Direwolf left. Balon lost three sons out of his foolishness and his own lands were ravaged. Seems check and check for Tywin. While we may view it that way, this is Tywin Lannister we are talking about. Holds a grudge arguably worse than Walder Frey does. Sure, Greyjoy losing two sons at war (one to the Mallisters) and one de jure to the Starks and losing the war period is suffering. But I do not see that as the Lion getting his vengeance. Should there not have been some other socio-political-economic activities to fill the hunger for revenge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Warning Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 "With Balon's 'moat' now undefended, King Robert had no difficulty bringing his host across Ironman's Bay from Seagard and Lannisport. With his Wardens of the West and North beside him, Robert forced landings on Pyke, Great Wyk, Harlaw, and Orkmont, and cut his way across the isles with steel and fire." Think it's fair to say he had his vengeance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Targknight Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 2 hours ago, nyser1 said: While we may view it that way, this is Tywin Lannister we are talking about. Holds a grudge arguably worse than Walder Frey does. Sure, Greyjoy losing two sons at war (one to the Mallisters) and one de jure to the Starks and losing the war period is suffering. But I do not see that as the Lion getting his vengeance. Should there not have been some other socio-political-economic activities to fill the hunger for revenge? It is unnecessary for vengeance. I doubt Tywin would kill Euron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Mac Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 On 7/29/2020 at 10:10 PM, nyser1 said: So Tywin is unable to forgive the slightest grudge against anyone for anything. That seems to be an exaggeration. The guy seemed to be able to work with Aerys for two decades despite how he was treated, how his wife was treated and the mocking of the King and his favourites about Tywin. Quote During the Greyjoy rebellion, the Ironborn burned the Lannister fleet. And the realm, including the Westerlands, went to war with the Ironborn, defeating them. With Balon's "moat" now undefended, King Robert had no difficulty bringing his host across Ironman's Bay from Seagard and Lannisport. With his Wardens of the West and North beside him, Robert forced landings on Pyke, Great Wyk, Harlaw, and Orkmont, and cut his way across the isles with steel and fire. Balon lost two sons in the process, his youngest son (Winterfell), brother (Lannisport) and a host of other hostages taken as Balon surrendered. What more do you expect for Tywin losing some ships? He more than likely recouped that cost from the Ironborn in their defeat. I have a feeling that Tywin took the wealthy Harlaw island while Robert and Ned took Pyke and Stannis and Barristan other islands. Quote I do not believe we hear anything further about the Lannisters and Greyjoys & he seems emotionless when discussing them politically during the WoT5k. Plothole? Not really. They burnt his Navy. Unless Tywin was personally attached to those ships, I'm really not sure why he'd take it as personally as you are suggesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lord of the Crossing Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 Probably plothole. That or he was compensated by the Greyjoys. The losers are asked to pay for damages and fines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R2D Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 Tywin is not that ruthless. His policy is to help people to their feet if they've surrendered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S. D Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 Wasn't Pyke burned down during the war? That's revenge enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tikhunt Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 We don't actually know if Tywin got revenge because the Greyjoy rebellion isn't covered in enough detail. We've so far been told the essentials for moving the main plot forward and nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyser1 Posted August 2, 2020 Author Share Posted August 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Tikhunt said: We don't actually know if Tywin got revenge because the Greyjoy rebellion isn't covered in enough detail. We've so far been told the essentials for moving the main plot forward and nothing more. This is how I felt. Folks pointed out a few lines of Westermen involvement which I either forgot about or did not notice originally. However, to counter the points of a few - yes, I do believe that the destruction of the Lannister navy is not some petty slight that Tywin would not want PERSONAL vengeance for. We see what he does, even to his own family for much less. To have the fleet which protect the third wealthiest city in the kingdoms (his own and by honor, a slight to the "shield of Lannisport, Lord of the Westerlands, and Warden of the West). I do not believe a few Baratheon victories (including the storming of Pyke, not the destruction of), two of Balon's sons dying in battle, and Ned Stark taking Theon hostage would satisfy his thirst. I am not suggesting he needed to see every Ironborn on Pyke killed (although that would fit his MO). The destruction of the entire Iron fleet, giving Theon to Tywin, immense economic recompense - this would fit the bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tikhunt Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 8 minutes ago, nyser1 said: I am not suggesting he needed to see every Ironborn on Pyke killed (although that would fit his MO). The destruction of the entire Iron fleet, giving Theon to Tywin, immense economic recompense - this would fit the bill. It's likely that a considerable amount of reperations were paid by the Greyjoys to cover costs of the war and Tywin would have got his fair share or at least as much as he could get away with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRANDON GREYSTARK Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 On 7/29/2020 at 5:10 PM, nyser1 said: So Tywin is unable to forgive the slightest grudge against anyone for anything. During the Greyjoy rebellion, the Ironborn burned the Lannister fleet. I do not believe we hear anything further about the Lannisters and Greyjoys & he seems emotionless when discussing them politically during the WoT5k. Plothole? He was getting his revenge , while the Greyjoys was fighting the Starks, Tywin was content . After the Red Wedding , He turned the Boltons on them . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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