U.S. Politics: Some Of Us Did Warn You, But It Can't Happen Here...

[DMC]

1 minute ago, GrimTuesday said:

Here's the first tweet of a 10 tweet thread if anyone wants to read it and hasn't read it

 

Didn't we make an international thread for this type of stuff?  The US is between a rock and a hard place.  I dunno what the right answer is on taking sides.  Seems to me the best thing to do is just stay out of it.  But it's hardly surprising the DoD and Intelligence agencies are going to be interested in their nationalized oil.  And that'd be true regardless who was president.  That's, like, old-school Eisenhower farewell address shit.

[GrimTuesday]

1 minute ago, DMC said:

Didn't we make an international thread for this type of stuff?  The US is between a rock and a hard place.  I dunno what the right answer is on taking sides.  Seems to me the best thing to do is just stay out of it.  But it's hardly surprising the DoD and Intelligence agencies are going to be interested in their nationalized oil.  And that'd be true regardless who was president.  That's, like, old-school Eisenhower farewell address shit.

This isn't about the international politics of regime change in Venezuela this is about Democratic politicians attacking Trump on the basis that he failed to execute a coup. Democrats can't fall into the trap of taking positions that are completely in line with Republican foreign policy as a way to oppose Trump. Becoming increasingly hawkish in the face of Trump's incompetence in doing bad shit is such a wrongheaded way of doing things.

[DMC]

12 minutes ago, GrimTuesday said:

this is about Democratic politicians attacking Trump on the basis that he failed to execute a coup.

Can you link me how they're doing this?  Not trying to be a dick.  I just don't like getting my news from twitter threads and I can't find anything on this quickly.

[Guest]

May be seeing some concessions (NYT limited clicks) soon from Republicans on stimulus negotiations. Democrats have held together much better than I'd feared in negotiations.

Don't let it be lost on anyone that the brave debt-scolds who are leading the charge against the Republican bill are all the ones that won re-election in 2018.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

God this man is truly insane. Paraphrasing, "Well if we exclude the bad numbers, we're doing great." Just holy shit.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

38 minutes ago, GrimTuesday said:

Becoming increasingly hawkish in the face of Trump's incompetence in doing bad shit is such a wrongheaded way of doing things.

This is why @DMC said Dems are in between a rock and a hard place. And that's not just with Venezuela. I have no idea what you do there. I actually had hoped to live there for a summer a decade ago, and that had to be cancelled because it wasn't safe. Things are a lot worse now. The best I can guess to do is have an international coalition that removes Maduro, but we cannot lead it. We're a bad faith actor, and it pains me to say that, but really it's so true in so many ways. 

[Guest]

Did anyone else get the feeling during Trump's response to the question about why mail-in voting for Florida is okay, that the subtext of his response was basically "Lose the Democrats' mail-in ballots and there will be a pardon waiting for you"?

It would totally be his MO too; suggest something with a criminal subtext, allow a stooge to do all the dirty work, have plausible deniability and someone to throw under the bus if the stooge gets caught, and bonus (!) if you can keep the bluff up until January 20, you'll get 4 more years as President (or you'll start a new Civil War).

I'm just be paranoid, right?

[DMC]

18 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

I'm just be paranoid, right?

No.

[maarsen]

21 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

Did anyone else get the feeling during Trump's response to the question about why mail-in voting for Florida is okay, that the subtext of his response was basically "Lose the Democrats' mail-in ballots and there will be a pardon waiting for you"?

It would totally be his MO too; suggest something with a criminal subtext, allow a stooge to do all the dirty work, have plausible deniability and someone to throw under the bus if the stooge gets caught, and bonus (!) if you can keep the bluff up until January 20, you'll get 4 more years as President (or you'll start a new Civil War).

I'm just be paranoid, right?

Not at all. This is just Trump being Trump. Look at his comments to Ghislaine Maxwell. 'Don't expose me and I'll look after you.' 

[kairparavel]

2 hours ago, drawkcabi said:

I was on the phone yesterday for a teleconference town hall thing with my congressman, Andy Harris. Maryland may be a blue state, but the eastern shore is pure Trump country.

We were debating driving out to Cambridge on Saturday just to get out of DC and look at some water and grab some beers from RAR. In the end I felt it would be a bad call. I do not need to be in the midst of a Magats right now.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Not being a lawyer, what exactly does suing over election results even mean?

And not like, what i meant in somewhat saner times, but in these bat shit crazy times? He was rambling about it all over that mess of a presser.

[Zorral]

11 minutes ago, kairparavel said:

We were debating driving out to Cambridge on Saturday just to get out of DC and look at some water and grab some beers from RAR. In the end I felt it would be a bad call. I do not need to be in the midst of a Magats right now.

Go to Chestertown, Kent County, MD -- also on the Eastern Shore, but Dem (and a matriarchy).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Trump Doesn’t Need the Most Votes. What if He Doesn’t Even Want Them?"

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/04/opinion/trump-2020-electoral-college.html?

Quote

 

Nearly everyone involved in reporting on, analyzing or forecasting the upcoming presidential election agrees that Donald Trump could win another term in office. But no one save his most dedicated sycophants thinks he could do so with a majority of the public on his side. We have accepted, as a matter of course, that Trump could be constitutionally re-elected through the Electoral College, but not democratically selected by the voting public.

That’s how he won in 2016, and the reason is straightforward. Enough of the president’s base is concentrated in swing states like Florida, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. Because of that fact, he can lose by as many as five million votes and still win an Electoral College majority.

As much as this contradicts our democratic expectations, you can imagine a scenario where, aware of his minority position, Trump governed with an eye toward consensus and popular legitimacy. The Electoral College misfire would have been a problem, but not a dangerous one. Instead, President Trump and his allies embraced this plainly anti-democratic feature of our political system to liberate themselves from majoritarian politics and coalition building. It’s not just that they can win with a plurality, but that they intend to, with no interest in persuading the majority of American voters and no concern for the consequences of that choice. 
[....]

 

 

[GrimTuesday]

26 minutes ago, DMC said:

Can you link me how they're doing this?  Not trying to be a dick.  I just don't like getting my news from twitter threads and I can't find anything on this quickly.

I confess that a lot of it is a gut response to things that I have seen Democrats saying over the last four years, from freaking out any time Trump did anything with North Korea, to the to Democrats fully embracing Guaido (I think a lot of them also applauded the coup in Bolivia), and the continued acceptance of mass drone warfare that began during the Obama administration, It feels like the Democrat's foreign policy has just been do the opposite of Trump.

11 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

This is why @DMC said Dems are in between a rock and a hard place. And that's not just with Venezuela. I have no idea what you do there. I actually had hoped to live there for a summer a decade ago, and that had to be cancelled because it wasn't safe. Things are a lot worse now. The best I can guess to do is have an international coalition that removes Maduro, but we cannot lead it. We're a bad faith actor, and it pains me to say that, but really it's so true in so many ways. 

Not to drag this thread into the international vein too much, but as far as I'm concerned, first thing we do is stop undermining their economy and actually causing more problems. Having an external threat only makes it easier for a despotic regime to hold on to power since they have an easy and sometimes legitimate scapegoat whenever shit goes wrong. Pretty much the same thing we need to do with Iran. To do this we need to shift our foreign policy away from working on behalf of American corporations and more towards human focused internationalism.

[hauberk]

2 hours ago, drawkcabi said:

I was on the phone yesterday for a teleconference town hall thing with my congressman, Andy Harris. Maryland may be a blue state, but the eastern shore is pure Trump country. The comments and questions the people from my district were saying and Harris himself...It was literally making me feel sick!

 "Hydrochloriquine (sp?) may still work! A study in Rome had some good results, you should talk to your doctor about it." - Representative Harris himself saying that, and he has a medical degree and was a practicing doctor!

 "Mail in voting is highly susceptible to fraud, look at Patterson, NJ. We need to curtail it." - This also from Harris.

Plus there were a bunch of constituents all saying: 

"We need to put kids back in school! If people can work at Wal-Mart all day, teachers can work in a school!

"We really don't need masks, I respect anyone's right to wear one, but I'm not going to."
"We want you (Harris) to stand behind our President!" 
 "We need to support our President!"
 "I think Trump has done a good job and is making our country great again!" - Yes someone said that.
 "Our so-called Republican Governor Hogan was wrong to speak out against our President. GOP politicians better start doing a better job defending and standing up for our President, if they don't we'll vote for Trump but not for you!"

I am not exaggerating or embellishing this a bit, I promise.

 I was in queue to question/comment but of course, the teleconference ended before they got to me. No way I'm going to vote for Harris in any case, but I wanted to at least inject some sanity into the damn conference,  not that it would do much good, but it's better than staying quiet.

But I had to listen to all that shit for an hour and didn't get my chance.

             

- Yeah, that pretty well sums up me on that call yesterday... 

 

Keep in mind that, at least around here, telephone Townhalls may sound like a Townhall, but the questions are prescreened to present exactly what they want.  My Representative does the same garbage.  It's pathetic.  

[DMC]

4 minutes ago, GrimTuesday said:

I confess that a lot of it is a gut response to things that I have seen Democrats saying over the last four years, from freaking out any time Trump did anything with North Korea, to the to Democrats fully embracing Guaido (I think a lot of them also applauded the coup in Bolivia), and the continued acceptance of mass drone warfare that began during the Obama administration, It feels like the Democrat's foreign policy has just been do the opposite of Trump.

Fair enough.  Just think in this particular case it might have been simply Chris Murphy saying something stupid on twitter.  Which, apparently and unfortunately, most public figures seem to do now from time to time.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

9 minutes ago, GrimTuesday said:

Not to drag this thread into the international vein too much, but as far as I'm concerned, first thing we do is stop undermining their economy and actually causing more problems. Having an external threat only makes it easier for a despotic regime to hold on to power since they have an easy and sometimes legitimate scapegoat whenever shit goes wrong. Pretty much the same thing we need to do with Iran. To do this we need to shift our foreign policy away from working on behalf of American corporations and more towards human focused internationalism.

Sanctions have been used for ages, and there is nothing inherently wrong in said use. Now, if your argument is that they have at times been vindictive, sure. Iran is one of the most common examples I use, not just about the policy, but because it highlights a long term fail policy in which, while they have sinned too, we're the true original sinner, and it's in large part because of your exact complaint. That said, I'm not sure I'd compare the two countries. That also doesn't mean the United states hasn't wronged Venezuela, and at many times exaggerated their threat, but the country is still a failed state and I'm not sure doing nothing is the moral path. But like I said, I also don't have the answer that will make most people happy. 

 

[Larry of the Lawn]

Gotta say, it's kind of surprising to see anyone surprised at the idea that a guy like Chris Murphy, a pretty mainstream Dem from a state heavily addicted to the teat of the MIC, would be anything other than a goon for US imperialism and colonialism.  

I mean don't get me wrong, stoked to have a D on the Senate, even in Blue-buttholed CT, but for fucks sake, other than a few MOCs the Dems are just as hawkish and addicted to Cold War politics and "defense" contractor money as Republicans.  

Like what we need to do during a fucking pandemic is worth about a commie in Venezuela.  ***Insert meme of Jesus F. Christ fucking a flat circle of time*** (it's not a glory hole, it's a bore-y hole)

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

25 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:

***Insert meme of Jesus F. Christ fucking a flat circle of time*** (it's not a glory hole, it's a bore-y hole)

Idk, that sounds kinky.

But tell me, at some point was he riding a dinosaur? 

[Martell Spy]

Family values, folks...

Photo appears to show Jerry Falwell Jr. with zipper down and arm around a woman
The screen grab, circulating on the internet, sparks condemnation of one of Trump’s leading evangelical supporters.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/04/jerry-falwell-photo-backlash-391348

Quote

 

A photo circulating on the internet that appears to show Liberty University President Jerry Falwell Jr. on a yacht with his pants unzipped and arm around a woman is sparking backlash against the leader of the Christian college.

In the photo, both Falwell, who is one of President Donald Trump’s most vocal evangelical supporters, and the woman appear to have their midriffs exposed.

 

 

[Guest]

Kobach's career goes down in flames in Kansas.

I still wouldn't write it off, depending on just how toxic Trump gets.

So, this hasn't come up much because of the lapse of unemployment benefits and renter protections, but there is zero traction on McConnell's "red line" of liability protections for businesses in the next stimulus bill. If it's in there at all, it's likely in a version very palatable to Democrats, put in there to pick up Republican votes.

This has been an own-goal by Republicans. Trump threw McConnell under the bus when it came to business liability, and the Senate Republicans are smelling Trump's blood in the water and are jockeying for 2024 and sending messaging signals, which cut McConnell's other leg out from under him.

Democrats will get a big win out of this, because they'll have to do all the heavy lifting in both the Senate and House.

It is astonishing how badly McConnell let himself be outmanuevered on this; if he'd even attempted to use the summer to get something done, he would be in a stronger position now, but he apparently bought into the bullshit just as much as the rest of them.