A closer look on Lady Dustin

[SansaTakingUpNeedle]

Lady Dustin, which we meet in A Dance with Dragons, is a very intriguing figure who absolutely seems to be up to something. In the following essay I will present you with an analysis of the information we get on her, and suggest a little theory about her endgame.

The essay will have three parts: The holes in Lady Dustin’s backstory and her loyalties, The Northern ambitions of House Ryswell, and the core of my speculation, called The North remembers… but the Starks forgot?

As English is not my mother tongue, please be merciful if I make mistakes ;-)

 

 

Part I: The holes in Lady Dustin’s backstory and her loyalties

 

In ADWD Lady Dustin asks Theon to show her the entrance to the Winterfell crypts and they go down there together. Then she tells him her story to illustrate why she has a grudge against the Starks:

She hoped to marry Brandon, Ned’s older brother, whom she had known during their youth because he had been fostered at Barrowton and often visited the Ryswell family in the Rills, who lie next to the Barrowlands. Brandon even took her maidenhead, but was betrothed to Catelyn Tully by his father Rickard Stark:

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“Brandon was fostered at Barrowton with old Lord Dustin, the father of the one I’d later wed, but he spent most of his time riding the Rills. (…) And my lord father was always pleased to play host to the heir to Winterfell. My father had great ambitions for House Ryswell. He would have served up my maidenhead to any Stark who happened by, but there was no need. Brandon was never shy about taking what he wanted. (…) The day I learned that Brandon was to marry Catelyn Tully, though… there was nothing sweet about that pain.

“He never wanted her, I promise you that. He told me so, on our last night together… but Rickard Stark had great ambitions too. Southron ambitions that would not be servd by having his heir marry the daughter of one of his won vassals. Afterward my father nursed some hope of wedding me ton Brandons’s brother Eddard, but Catelyn Tully got that one as well. I was left with young Lord Dustin, until Ned Stark took him from me. (…)

Lord Dustin and I had not been married half a year when Robert rose and Ned Stark called his banners. I begged my husband not to go. He had kin he might have sent in his stead. (…) But he was a man and full of pride, nothing would serve but that he lead the Barrowton levies himself. (…)” (ADWD, The Turncloak)

 

So at first sight, Barbrey mentions three reasons why she’s pissed: First, she couldn’t marry Brandon, whom she was in love with during her youth and who took her maidenhead. Second, she couldn’t marry Ned either because he had to marry Catelyn after Brandon’s death. And third, when she was finally married, her husband quickly died because he went south with Ned during Robert’s Rebellion.

But actually her story doesn’t really add up because of the timeline of the rebellion – I know that George R.R. Martin said that we don’t have to take his timelines too seriously, but I still would like to focus on something I deem important here: Ned and Robert called their banners after they learned that Rickard and Brandon had been killed by mad king Aerys, who eventually demanded their heads of Jon Arryn. So Ned travelled from the Eyrie to Winterfell, called his banners, and marched south. Then, like “on his way”, he married Catelyn at Riverrun, where Willam Dustin was present during the wedding and bedding:

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“On Catelyn’s own wedding night, Jory Cassell had torn her gown in his haste to get her out of it, and drunken Desmond Grell kept apologizing for every bawdy joke, only to make another. When Lord Dustin had beheld her naked, he’d told Ned that her breasts were enough to make him wish he’d never been weaned.” (ASOS, Catelyn VII)

Of course, all this travelling took some weeks, but Lady Dustin says herself that she and Willam were married for some six months when Ned called his banners, so I don’t think a few weeks matter. What matters is that they wed before Ned married Cat, maybe even before Brandon died! So marrying Ned instead of Brandon wasn’t a real option for Barbrey Ryswell even before those events, so Lord Ryswell found another match for his daughter. (But of course, they might have thought about the possibility when Brandon’s betrothal to Cat was announced – that was when Cat was only 12, and Brandon and Barbrey weren’t that much older!)

So, Barbrey already has one less reason to be pissed, having never actually been betrothed to Ned or something similar. And actually, I don’t think Brandon taking her maidenhead is such a big problem either: When Roose Bolton tells Theon about Northern houses and clans still practicing the first night, he doesn’t list the Ryswells or the Dustins, but he says that “where the old gods rule, old customs linger” (ADWD, Reek III) and, as we will see again later in this essay, Lady Dustin is a big fan of Northern tradition. So losing her maidenhead to her (future) liege lord mayhaps wasn’t that unusual for her, and given Brandon’s reputation she and her father couldn’t really expect him to marry her because of it. She still might have been in love with him, given that she only was about 13-15 years and therefore maybe as romantic as young Sansa Stark, but the grown-up and intelligent Lady Dustin has to know better. The only reason left for her to be pissed is the death of her late husband Willam. But in Westeros, people going to war and dying is normal and even considered honorable. Many people on the internet do wonder why she is grieving such a long time for a guy she barely knew, having been married to him for a rather short time, and him not even being her first choice.

All of this indicates that her hatred for the Starks is clearly a setup, but this doesn’t mean she’s on their side. I don’t think she’s really on Roose’s side either, given her dislike for Ramsay, although she wears the mask of his closest ally. And he needs her, because she has the combined forces of the Rills and the Barrowlands behind her. She might be involved in some Great (or small) Northern Conspiracy, but if so, she’s probably playing Manderly and the others the same way she’s playing Roose.

Long story short: she’s on her own side, waiting to grab power. How could she get into a position of power in the North? Well, if Stannis wins the Battle of Ice, she could stab Roose in the back (either literally with a dagger or by poisoning him), declare for King Stannis and hope that he names her Wardeness of the North. Stannis not liking women might pose a problem, but as she’s not a warrior like Asha, but a good lady staying inside a castle, he might even think her an adequate choice.

[SansaTakingUpNeedle]

Part II: The Northern ambitions of House Ryswell

Not being able to marry Brandon Stark (or at least one of his brothers), Barbrey Ryswell “was left with young Lord Dustin” (ADWD, The Turncloak) – but why him, out of all the Northern lordlings and even knights, who could have made a good match for a younger daughter? Of course, the Ryswells and Dustins are neighbors and probably knew each other well, they might have intermarried several times. But there’s more to the match: The Dustins are descendants from the Barrow Kings and their sigil still shows a rusty crown. They aren’t just some random Northern House, they have the blood of first men kings and mayhaps even potential to become kings again. I think that was important to Barbrey’s father, who “had great ambitions for House Ryswell” (ADWD, The Turncloak) – remember that Barbrey’s older sister Bethany was married to Roose Bolton, and that the Boltons are descendants from the Red Kings and a house powerful enough to be serious rivals to the Starks for centuries!

And I think that with those alliances, House Ryswell at some point – not recently, but before Robert’s Rebellion – started scheming against House Stark, the former Kings in the North, who had now southron ambitions. Unfortunately, we don’t know when and why exactly Bethany married Roose, who was probably in on the long-term scheming, but as the youngest of the Ryswell sons is called Roose (after Lord Leeches), the two houses might have a rather strong alliance going on for some time. Of course Lord Ryswell might have tried to make several alliances while biding his time, by marrying one of his daughters to a Bolton, and another to a Stark. But in this case, the latter family refusing a match and “turning southwards” pushed House Ryswell on a darker path anyway.

I also think that the Southron ambitions not only angered House Ryswell because Barbrey couldn’t become Lady of Winterfell with the Stark-Tully-marriage. I think that this marriage went extremely against Northern traditions and mayhaps didn’t please other Northern houses either, besides the Ryswells: As far as I know, the female ancestors of house Stark are ladies of Northern Houses or of the Mountain Clans. There is one exception, a female Royce marrying into House Stark, but the Royces are at least First Men associated with Northern culture. The heir to Winterfell marrying Catelyn Tully, who believed in the Seven instead of the Old Gods, was probably something new and not estimated a good choice by everyone in the North. If so, the whole Southron ambitions of House Stark weakened their power in the North – at least I think that this is how Rodrik Ryswell thought when he married his younger daughter to a Dustin of Barrowton, a House which claims to be descendants from the First King of the First Men. Young Willam Dustin, who rode to the tower of joy with Ned, probably wasn’t told about a long-term conspiracy, and even Barbrey might only have been told later. But I am sure she already was in on her family’s plans when Robb called his banners and she send as few men as she dared to – remember that she also spied on him and his actions, which means she and her family were watching very carefully how things developed to be able to act themselves at the right moment, as Roose Bolton did long enough before finally turning on the King in the North.

[SansaTakingUpNeedle]

Part III: The North remembers… but the Starks forgot?

During the books, if a Stark goes south it usually doesn’t turn out well for him: Ned really doesn’t fit into King’s Landings court culture, and Robb marrying Jeyne Westerling, who was probably a Lannister trap from the start, eventually leads to him being killed in the Red Weddings which ends his reign. Brandon and Rickard got killed by mad king Aerys, Lyanna died somewhere in Dorne, and though Ned was successful during Robert’s Rebellion, they had a big fight about Jaime Lannister killing the King despite being a Kingsguard and Rhaegar’s kids being slaughtered despite being innocent babes. And Lady Dustin begged her newly wed husband not to go south himself, so she probably had a feeling that he wouldn’t come back. It seems pretty sure that Northerners should stay in the North, where the Old Gods rule. But some of the Starks don’t seem to care, so it might be some other house’s turn to grab power… And power is what Lady Dustins behavior is about, not personal dislike or craving for personal vengeance: Sending as less men as she dares when Robb calls his banners, and having people spy on him, is part of the long-term plan of her family: To grab power in the North when the Starks have failed because they are too honorable to play the game of thrones.

But what would they do once they are in a powerful position? Lady Dustin tells Theon one thing:

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If I were queen, the first thing I would do would be to kill all those grey rats. (ADWD, The Prince of Winterfell)

Okay, she might or might not kill some maesters if she gets the chance to, but she clearly doesn’t like them. She then goes on and tells Theon that Rickard’s maester Walys was the one behind the Southron ambitions, but again, I think there is more to the story: The maesters hate, or at least don’t believe in, magic. They wouldn’t take Old Nan’s stories seriously, they have a very rational view of the world, and in their perspective, magic, dragons and the Others simply don’t exist (anymore).

Yeah, my crazy theory is that Lady Dustin and her kin/allies know about magical stuff, and want to grab power to maintain (or re-establish) northern traditions which are very important in their eyes – but which the Starks forgot.

Let’s go back to A Game of Thrones where the Barrowlands are first introduced to us (which means they are important in some way): Eddard Stark and Robert Baratheon go riding out very early, and the landscape is described as “rolling plains dark with mists” turning to “pale white mists of dawn” at sunrise:

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A wide plain spread out beneath them, bare and brown, its flatness here and there relieved by long, low hummocks. Ned pointed them out to his king. “The barrows of the First Men.”

Robert frowned. “Have we ridden on a graveyard?”

“There are barrows everywhere in the north, Your Grace,” Ned told him. “This land is old.”

“And cold,” Robert grumbled, pulling his cloak more tightly around himself. (AGOT, Eddard II)

So we have barrows, who remind Robert of death, mists and cold. These three elements are also associated with the Others, who come with the cold, are somewhat mist-like, and bring death. The Others are clearly the incarnation of the “Ice magic”, the Magic of the North, and this ice magic seems to be very present in the Barrowlands. In this quote we also have the rime of old and cold. Craster says he is sacrificing his sons to some Gods, which his wives call the Cold Gods, and who seem to be the Others. The white Weirwoods can also be associated with the Others. So maybe Old Gods = Cold Gods (=Others), although we cannot be certain about this.

I must admit that I watched (and enjoyed) a theory of Preston Jacobs, who states that the Night’s Watch has been sacrificing babies to the Others, which Craster seems to be doing still (or took up some years ago). Of course, this doesn’t have to be true, but we can be pretty sure about one thing: the First Men made blood sacrifices to the Weirwood trees:

In his last chapter in ADWD, Bran sees through the Weirwoods that someone is being sacrificed in front of a Heart Tree in the past. While a prisoner at the Wolf’s Den, Davos is told about enslaved people hanging their slavers’ entrails in the Weirwood there as sacrifice to the Old Gods (ADWD, Davos IV). On the Great Ranging, the brothers of the Night’s Watch cross the abandoned village of Whitetree and find burnt bones in the mouth of the village’s Weirwood (ACOK, Jon II). Even Ned, the Stark who presumably forgot most about the old customs, clears his sword in the pool next to the Heart tree in Winterfell every time he has punished someone with death, so the Winterfell heart tree gets his share of criminal blood (AGOT, Catelyn I).

So there clearly was a tradition of human sacrifice to the Weirwoods, aka the Old Gods, which is of course rather cruel, and honorable Starks like The Ned wouldn’t approve of such a custom. But people like Lady Dustin and Roose Bolton might – they might even be persuaded that these sacrifices are necessary to get the approval of the Old Gods, to keep the Others at bay and to prevent harsh winters and a second long night. And of course, people who have this perspective will think that the Starks are unfit to rule the North, because they would never practice such things.

But if Lady Dustin is so much into Northern Traditons/Ice Magic Rituals, she surely knows that there must always be a Stark in Winterfell. I think she had suspicions about Bran and Rickon being alive – maybe Roose even told her that Ramsay killed two miller’s boys – and she got confirmation by the missing swords in the crypts. So if she becomes Wardeness of the North under Stannis, and if Davos finds little Rickon on Skagos, she probably won’t kill him (unless she has a little Brandon Snow hidden somewhere…), but might accept being a sort of ‘Wardeness regent’ until the Stark heir comes of age. Of course, she could and would manipulate him, and teach him her own ways, in a similar way to the Littlefinger-Sansa-relationship. This, at least, would fulfil the original dream she told Theon about: Being the Lady of Winterfell and a motherly figure to the Stark heir.

[alienarea]

It is a nice writing, but IMHO it has some flaws.

The warden of the North is appointed by whoever holds the iron throne, I don't see Lady Dustin ever becoming a wardeness.

Also, with her being firmly rooted in Northern traditions, she probably wouldn't care much for it and rather become 'Queen in the North'.

I also see a contradiction in the North still practicing ius prima nocte, the Starks before Brandon and Ned marrying within the North, and not being a virgin anymore making it impossible to become Lady Stark. IIRC that isn't anywhere in the books.

If Lady Dustin had been dreaming of marrying Brandon, but would have needed to remain a virgin to do so, she would not have given aeay her maidenhead, would she?

[John Suburbs]

I don't buy her story either. I think the whole purpose of that little trip was to remove the ice and debris covering the door and to leave a large number of tracks through the snow to and from the crypts. This will allow anyone using the secret entrance to enter the castle without attracting attention.

And it was right after this that the murders started.

[GoldenGail3]

She hates Ned.

[Lady Winter Rose]

On 8/1/2020 at 8:43 PM, alienarea said:

If Lady Dustin had been dreaming of marrying Brandon, but would have needed to remain a virgin to do so, she would not have given aeay her maidenhead, would she?

If the story is true, she was being really naive. It's not the first time Martin made mistakes in timeline, but I still think something is very off.

[BlackLightning]

On 8/6/2020 at 10:20 AM, John Suburbs said:

I don't buy her story either. I think the whole purpose of that little trip was to remove the ice and debris covering the door and to leave a large number of tracks through the snow to and from the crypts. This will allow anyone using the secret entrance to enter the castle without attracting attention.

And it was right after this that the murders started.

Oooh good catch.

I've always liked Lady Dustin. I think she loves House Stark more than she hated Ned so I think she's (mostly) trustworthy.

On 8/1/2020 at 1:43 PM, alienarea said:

If Lady Dustin had been dreaming of marrying Brandon, but would have needed to remain a virgin to do so, she would not have given aeay her maidenhead, would she?

But she gave her maidenhead to Brandon Stark. It was naive and inadvisable but it was likely of ploy of hers to get him to become infatuated with her.

The better question to ask is this: was Brandon Stark really upset about marrying Catelyn Tully or was that all some sort of lie or misunderstanding?

[Mister Smikes]

Ok.  She hates Ned Stark.  And will probably do something.  Not sure what.  Did Ned's bones ever get to Winterfell?  Who has them?

I think the most curious thing about Lady Dustin is that she calls attention to something curious about the Tower of Joy.  Lord Dustin was a Lord, and had a right to have his bones laid ina Barrow near Barrowtown, just as a Stark has a right to have his bones laid in the Crypts at Winterfell.  Ned has made an enemy of her by not returning Lord Willam's bones.  But why?  Why not sent for them?  After all these years!

Which leads to another curious question.  There were at least 9 corpses at the Tower of Joy, but Ned built only 8 cairns.  Who got left out?  Most assume that Lyanna got left out, but she too would have needed a cairn to protect her body before the bones could be returned to the Winterfell crypts.  If no cairn were built for Lord Willam, that might help explain why his bones are missing.

But why no cairn?  My guess is that while Lord Willam was wounded and could no longer ride, and stayed at the Tower of Joy for some secret purpose.  He died there, at a later date, when Ned was no longer around to protect his bones with a cairn. 

 

[SocratesSnow]

I've always wondered about Lord William Dustin's "death". If he had died, why wasn't Lady Dustin forced to marry, as Lady Hornwood was being forced to entertain suitors after her husband had died? Where he went and why is absolutely up for debate, but I can't help but think he was alive post ToJ. 

[BlackLightning]

On 3/27/2021 at 4:18 PM, Mister Smikes said:

Ok.  She hates Ned Stark.  And will probably do something.  Not sure what.  Did Ned's bones ever get to Winterfell?  Who has them?

I think the most curious thing about Lady Dustin is that she calls attention to something curious about the Tower of Joy.  Lord Dustin was a Lord, and had a right to have his bones laid ina Barrow near Barrowtown, just as a Stark has a right to have his bones laid in the Crypts at Winterfell.  Ned has made an enemy of her by not returning Lord Willam's bones.  But why?  Why not sent for them?  After all these years!

Which leads to another curious question.  There were at least 9 corpses at the Tower of Joy, but Ned built only 8 cairns.  Who got left out?  Most assume that Lyanna got left out, but she too would have needed a cairn to protect her body before the bones could be returned to the Winterfell crypts.  If no cairn were built for Lord Willam, that might help explain why his bones are missing.

But why no cairn?  My guess is that while Lord Willam was wounded and could no longer ride, and stayed at the Tower of Joy for some secret purpose.  He died there, at a later date, when Ned was no longer around to protect his bones with a cairn. 

I think Lord Willam is still alive.

For what purpose? I don't know: maybe it's as simple as him liking Dorne more than the North, not liking Barbrey and/or not liking the responsibility of lordship. In any case, I think he will be a key witness in regards to the "R+L=J" revelation.

Where would he be? I would assume he'd be at Starfall. There is a lot more than meets the eye with Dorne: I think the Daynes (or rather the Stony Dornish in general) will play a major role in A Dream of Spring

How are you supposed to carry a cairn (much less one containing a body) on and off and on a ship?

On 3/27/2021 at 4:18 PM, Mister Smikes said:

Did Ned's bones ever get to Winterfell?  Who has them?

Howland Reed.

I think they Robb's will and Ned's bones are both at Greywater Watch.

On 5/8/2021 at 10:49 AM, SocratesSnow said:

I've always wondered about Lord William Dustin's "death". If he had died, why wasn't Lady Dustin forced to marry, as Lady Hornwood was being forced to entertain suitors after her husband had died? Where he went and why is absolutely up for debate, but I can't help but think he was alive post ToJ. 

Lady Hornwood wasn't forced to marry.

Lady Hornwood wasn't even being forced to entertain suitors. Lady Hornwood was a very kind and very beautiful woman with no heir. Why so surprised that there were so many men her age who expressed a deep interest. After her death, the Hornwood estate would pass to the family of her husband which would be a major incentive.

Lady Dustin has siblings. And for all we know, Lady Dustin could already have an preestablished heir. A Dustin bastard or maybe the previous Lord Dustin has a daughter.

[Mister Smikes]

1 hour ago, BlackLightning said:

I think Lord Willam is still alive.

Unlikely.  He may have lived on for 5 years, but he is surely dead by now.

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For what purpose?

To raise Dany.

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Where would he be?

At the Tower of Joy.  At the House with the Red Door.  That's the only place he could be, since, according to the text, he never lived to ride away.

 

[BlackLightning]

50 minutes ago, Mister Smikes said:

Unlikely.  He may have lived on for 5 years, but he is surely dead by now.

 

How old was he back then?

I assumed that he was a younger man. Older than Eddard but younger than say 35...

51 minutes ago, Mister Smikes said:

To raise Dany.

 

Or fAegon...if fAegon is indeed the real Aegon

52 minutes ago, Mister Smikes said:

That's the only place he could be, since, according to the text, he never lived to ride away.

I am not sure that I believe that tale was true.

[Mister Smikes]

26 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

How old was he back then?

It is not about how old he is.  It is that 15 years later, Eddard looks back on this companions as if none are alive any longer

3 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

How are you supposed to carry a cairn (much less one containing a body) on and off and on a ship?

You don't transport cairns.  A cairn is a pile of rocks used to protect a dead body from wild animals etc.  One might later retrieve the body from the cairn, but you don't retrieve the cairn.

[Melifeather]

After Brandon's betrothal is announced, Lady Barbary's father could have been planning to ask for Ned. Maybe once Brandon died everyone assumed that Ned would marry Catelyn in his stead? It is quite common. It is also possible that she married Lord Dustin shortly after Ned married Catelyn. There are time lapses that GRRM doesn't explain in the books. One big example is how Ned got from Stoney Sept to the north side of the Trident, and what he was doing in the meantime? Jon Arryn was doing something other than helping at Stoney Sept, because only Ned and Hoster and their men are mentioned as coming down. So, Lord Dustin could have gone off with Jon Arryn to go do whatever it was they were doing, and somehow got his wedding in with Lady Barbary. All that being said, you've got my suspicions aroused as to Lady Barbary's motivations. Why would she be telling Theon all this? Maybe she's hoping Theon will say something of the conversation to Ramsay, thus strengthening the appearance of allying herself with the Boltons when in reality she's thrown in with the Manderlys? 

[rotting sea cow]

On 7/31/2020 at 8:31 PM, SansaTakingUpNeedle said:

Of course, all this travelling took some weeks, but Lady Dustin says herself that she and Willam were married for some six months when Ned called his banners, so I don’t think a few weeks matter. What matters is that they wed before Ned married Cat, maybe even before Brandon died! So marrying Ned instead of Brandon wasn’t a real option for Barbrey Ryswell even before those events, so Lord Ryswell found another match for his daughter. (But of course, they might have thought about the possibility when Brandon’s betrothal to Cat was announced – that was when Cat was only 12, and Brandon and Barbrey weren’t that much older!)

So, Barbrey already has one less reason to be pissed, having never actually been betrothed to Ned or something similar.

I don't see the problem here

Brandon was betrothed to Cat for years before the Rebellion. So, Barbrey hoped to marry Ned instead, but she never could. Her father made the choice for here. The timeline doesn't matter here. Second. Ned was in the Vale when Brandon was murdered and it took him a while before getting into the North, being smuggled to the Three Sisters by fisherfolk first and then to White Harbor.

 

On 7/31/2020 at 8:31 PM, SansaTakingUpNeedle said:

And actually, I don’t think Brandon taking her maidenhead is such a big problem either: When Roose Bolton tells Theon about Northern houses and clans still practicing the first night, he doesn’t list the Ryswells or the Dustins, but he says that “where the old gods rule, old customs linger” (ADWD, Reek III) and, as we will see again later in this essay, Lady Dustin is a big fan of Northern tradition. So losing her maidenhead to her (future) liege lord mayhaps wasn’t that unusual for her, and given Brandon’s reputation she and her father couldn’t really expect him to marry her because of it.

No. These "traditions" apply to the common folk. No lord in his right mind would go around deflowering the daughters of vassal houses or demanding the first night' right. Something like that would quickly turn into rebellion.